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KeelansGlove

No confidence petition in the board and campaign for removal

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As has been clearly stated a million times elsewhere on this board it is not a simple matter to get a change of ownership in a football club when you are in the middle of a serious financial crisis and the majority share holders hold 61% of the shares.

But this didn''t stop the "chase out" campaign and whilst it appears that few people are prepared to give up season tickets there are still ways to put pressure onto the board and try to bring out any potential investors into the open.

To be honest the level of investment over the last 12 years is an irrelevance whether it is 7 or 11 million when you consider the fact that we have been unable to punch our weight regardless of which division we are in. It can only be put down to incompetence when you compare the clubs we are up against. If we have paid over the odds for the quality of players we have had then that is no excuse.

If I am honest I think there has been an air of apathy about the club for some time and I think most people would buy a season ticket and moan regardless of the division we are in rather than actually try and do anything.

The sad thing is for a small investment (ie buying season tickets later) a message could have been sent clearly to the board.

I think we probably to get the club we deserve , one that has a fixed income regardless of what is served up on the pitch.

I know the board care for the club and want success as much as we do sadly they are just not up to the job. 

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If the 17 thousand fans who renewed their ST, had just gone for a membership instead, that would have sent a very clear signal to the board.

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[quote user="First Wizard"]If the 17 thousand fans who renewed their ST, had just gone for a membership instead, that would have sent a very clear signal to the board.[/quote] Unlike you. There are people who care for the club enough to keep going to Carrow Road and supporting the team despite the lack of investment from the board.

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[quote user="First Wizard"]If the 17 thousand fans who renewed their ST, had just gone for a membership instead, that would have sent a very clear signal to the board.[/quote]

Yes it would such as, ''''sadly we can''t get any players as ST''s didn''t sell as well as anticipated so we don''t have the funds to go towards the wage bill for players''''.  Brilliant, why didn''t I think of that lol.

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Keep on going to the games- keep on buying the STs- If I could get to games more than once or twice a year I''d have one too... but you can protest.I don''t even think that Smith and Jones are the true problem, Munby is my personal worry. He runs the club the way people run average local small businesses. Self important and can''t even see where other people would be better suited to tasks- I''m amazed he doesn''t try to pick the team (maybe he does??)Hmm [^o)]

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[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

[quote user="First Wizard"]If the 17 thousand fans who renewed their ST, had just gone for a membership instead, that would have sent a very clear signal to the board.[/quote]

Yes it would such as, ''''sadly we can''t get any players as ST''s didn''t sell as well as anticipated so we don''t have the funds to go towards the wage bill for players''''.  Brilliant, why didn''t I think of that lol.

[/quote]

Or alternatively it might make them realise they can''t take the fans for granted any more.

It might also put pressure on them to offer the club for sale on terms that investors might realistically be prepared to meet

Continuing to renew in such numbers so far in advance is like an overprotective mother that goes on stuffing her child with junk food even though it''s morbidly obese. 

 

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If the club was ever to be bought by a big invester, it would be the quantity of supporters going to matches that would be the main attraction

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[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

[quote user="First Wizard"]If the 17 thousand fans who renewed their ST, had just gone for a membership instead, that would have sent a very clear signal to the board.[/quote]

Yes it would such as, ''''sadly we can''t get any players as ST''s didn''t sell as well as anticipated so we don''t have the funds to go towards the wage bill for players''''.  Brilliant, why didn''t I think of that lol.

[/quote]

Fine, just don''t threaten to not renew next season when it all goes wrong again![:|]

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[quote user="swindoncanary"]If the club was ever to be bought by a big invester, it would be the quantity of supporters going to matches that would be the main attraction[/quote]Now that should be pinned. Spot on.

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[quote user="First Wizard"]If the 17 thousand fans who renewed their ST, had just gone for a membership instead, that would have sent a very clear signal to the board.[/quote]I think it might be more helpful to support the club with the renewal of Season Tickets (17,000 can''t be wrong), thus providing revenue and helping stove the treat of administration until a suitable buyer can be found.  One might call it supporting one''s club.

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[quote user="swindoncanary"]If the club was ever to be bought by a big invester, it would be the quantity of supporters going to matches that would be the main attraction
[/quote]

Cobblers.  If anything the opposite is true.  A club that isn''t succeeding even with a full stadium isn''t an attractive prospect. 

 

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[quote user="AndyJR"][quote user="First Wizard"]If the 17 thousand fans who renewed their ST, had just gone for a membership instead, that would have sent a very clear signal to the board.[/quote]

I think it might be more helpful to support the club with the renewal of Season Tickets (17,000 can''t be wrong), thus providing revenue and helping stove the treat of administration until a suitable buyer can be found.  One might call it supporting one''s club.
[/quote]

17,000 can be wrong I can assure you.  And there''s nothing like the threat of administration to concentrate the board''s minds and offer the club for sale on realistic terms.  Under the present board we have no future footballwise, but with your "support" they will be able to keep their head above water financially as we sink slowly but surely down the divisions. 

If this makes you angry, direct your anger where it really belongs - the board, whose chronic lack of desire to succeed has put the fans in this double bind - instead of shooting the messenger. 

 

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[quote user="canary cherub "]

[quote user="AndyJR"][quote user="First Wizard"]If the 17 thousand fans who renewed their ST, had just gone for a membership instead, that would have sent a very clear signal to the board.[/quote]I think it might be more helpful to support the club with the renewal of Season Tickets (17,000 can''t be wrong), thus providing revenue and helping stove the treat of administration until a suitable buyer can be found.  One might call it supporting one''s club.[/quote]

17,000 can be wrong I can assure you.  And there''s nothing like the threat of administration to concentrate the board''s minds and offer the club for sale on realistic terms.  Under the present board we have no future footballwise, but with your "support" they will be able to keep their head above water financially as we sink slowly but surely down the divisions. 

If this makes you angry, direct your anger where it really belongs - the board, whose chronic lack of desire to succeed has put the fans in this double bind - instead of shooting the messenger. 

 

[/quote]I''m not angry at all, just I have a different opinion to you.  Not entirely sure what your reference to ''shooting the messenger'' is all about, it''s just a case of differing views.

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[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

[quote user="First Wizard"]If the 17 thousand fans who renewed their ST, had just gone for a membership instead, that would have sent a very clear signal to the board.[/quote]

Yes it would such as, ''''sadly we can''t get any players as ST''s didn''t sell as well as anticipated so we don''t have the funds to go towards the wage bill for players''''.  Brilliant, why didn''t I think of that lol.

[/quote]

17-20k fans have renewed season tickets year after year yet the quality of the players we bring in has gone down each season. Infact we''re even relying more and more on loanees just to get by. Perhaps that ST money is going to the wrong areas of the club?  (the team sure as hell isn''t priority)

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[quote user="canary cherub "]

[quote user="swindoncanary"]If the club was ever to be bought by a big invester, it would be the quantity of supporters going to matches that would be the main attraction
[/quote]

Cobblers.  If anything the opposite is true.  A club that isn''t succeeding even with a full stadium isn''t an attractive prospect. 

 

[/quote]

No, that''s cobblers. Teams such as Newcastle,  Man City, Birmingham and Wolves are often described as ''sleeping giants'' precisely because they''ve got the fan-base and potential already there but aren''t being pushed towards honours.

If you were investing, would you rather put your money in a Cardiff or a Wrexham, a Leeds or a Crewe or a Newcastle or an Accrington Stanley?

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Personally- from a business+glory perspective... Accrington Stanley. Demand for success much smaller. Lower investment needed for potential return.

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[quote user="Chunky Norwich"][quote user="canary cherub "]

[quote user="swindoncanary"]If the club was ever to be bought by a big invester, it would be the quantity of supporters going to matches that would be the main attraction
[/quote]

Cobblers.  If anything the opposite is true.  A club that isn''t succeeding even with a full stadium isn''t an attractive prospect. 

 

[/quote]

No, that''s cobblers. Teams such as Newcastle,  Man City, Birmingham and Wolves are often described as ''sleeping giants'' precisely because they''ve got the fan-base and potential already there but aren''t being pushed towards honours.

If you were investing, would you rather put your money in a Cardiff or a Wrexham, a Leeds or a Crewe or a Newcastle or an Accrington Stanley?

[/quote]

You''ve rather proved my point I think.  When fans at Birmingham, Man City and Wolves were unhappy that their clubs weren''t cutting it they voted with their feet in large numbers and it had no effect on their ability to attract investment.  Mike Ashley can''t find anyone to touch Newcastle even though they always fill the stadium.  We''re rather like a small scale Newcastle, fans with the delusion that blind unthinking loyalty will somehow bring success. 

As for which club I''d rather put my money in, it would depend how much I''d got.  If I had enough to make a difference at Crewe but not at Leeds I''d rather invest in Crewe.

 

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[quote user="canary cherub "]

17,000 can be wrong I can assure you. 

[/quote]Presumably if they disagree with you?

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I''m afraid that in the Chase days we were a "Name" and the fans of the day were anxious to protect that status. Therefore a protest was a way for a pro active following to be heard and an attempt to stop the club possibly falling from grace.

Now we are little more than an "also-ran" in football terms with no status to protect other than being a mediocre Second tier club. Chase gave us something to be proud of...whereas Smith has run the club into the ground showing petulance and disregard for history along the way.

The passion is no longer there and the "supporters" are happy to allow their "saviour" to run rings around them. Different days...different fans and a very different club.

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[quote user="Badger"][quote user="canary cherub "]

17,000 can be wrong I can assure you. 

[/quote]

Presumably if they disagree with you?
[/quote]

Alot of people said Columbus was wrong when he declared the earth was round....

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[quote user="canary cherub "][quote user="Chunky Norwich"][quote user="canary cherub "]

[quote user="swindoncanary"]If the club was ever to be bought by a big invester, it would be the quantity of supporters going to matches that would be the main attraction
[/quote]

Cobblers.  If anything the opposite is true.  A club that isn''t succeeding even with a full stadium isn''t an attractive prospect. 

 

[/quote]

No, that''s cobblers. Teams such as Newcastle,  Man City, Birmingham and Wolves are often described as ''sleeping giants'' precisely because they''ve got the fan-base and potential already there but aren''t being pushed towards honours.

If you were investing, would you rather put your money in a Cardiff or a Wrexham, a Leeds or a Crewe or a Newcastle or an Accrington Stanley?

[/quote]

You''ve rather proved my point I think.  When fans at Birmingham, Man City and Wolves were unhappy that their clubs weren''t cutting it they voted with their feet in large numbers and it had no effect on their ability to attract investment.  Mike Ashley can''t find anyone to touch Newcastle even though they always fill the stadium.  We''re rather like a small scale Newcastle, fans with the delusion that blind unthinking loyalty will somehow bring success. 

As for which club I''d rather put my money in, it would depend how much I''d got.  If I had enough to make a difference at Crewe but not at Leeds I''d rather invest in Crewe.

 

[/quote]

Man City had crowds of 30k even in the Second Division (as was) and, as you say, Newcastle always fill the ground every matchday. Wolves and Birmingham have the history and the potential. If you''re growing up in Birmingham and Villa are finishing 5th in the Prem but Birmingham and Wolves in the Championship, you''re probably going to go for Villa. A bit of money and the club rises, attracting the fans on the fence and making a viable success of the club.

If you put your money into Crewe, what''s going to happen? They rise up to the Championship possibly, maybe even the Premiership, but they''re still always going to be Crewe Alexandra, you''re still only going to attract mercenaries and journeymen and they''re still going to get crowds of about 15k in the Premiership. This is just throwing your money away surely? If you invest in a Leeds or a Newcastle, they''ve got the potential to do well and swell the crowds and bring in the millions from European and cup football. You''re money then would be amplified by the ticket sales and revenue from those games. Plus trying to persuade a top striker to move to Manchester or Yeovil.....?

Newcastle not being sold is, I believe, more to do with the country being in a recession and Mike Ashley asking for £200m (or whatever) for a a club he paid £100m (or whatever) 12 months ago

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[quote user="Paint Me Yellow"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="canary cherub "]

17,000 can be wrong I can assure you. 

[/quote]

Presumably if they disagree with you?
[/quote]

A lot of people said Columbus was wrong when he declared the earth was round....

[/quote]

Columbus was funded by the Queen. Cherub wants to get rid of the Queen but has no support for her cause. Unfortunately, the only posters that consistently likes her bait are Cluck and Smudger, and you know what happens when you just keep catching the same old fish....after a while you just throw them back or take up a new hobby. Cherub''s a slow learner.

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[quote user="Yellow Shirt"]Keep on going to the games- keep on buying the STs- If I could get to games more than once or twice a year I''d have one too... but you can protest.
I don''t even think that Smith and Jones are the true problem, Munby is my personal worry. He runs the club the way people run average local small businesses. Self important and can''t even see where other people would be better suited to tasks- I''m amazed he doesn''t try to pick the team (maybe he does??)Hmm [^o)]
[/quote]

Roger Munby does not run the club. The club is run by the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster.

I agree that Neil Doncaster "runs the club the way people run average local small businesses"

He does not have the qualified staff or enough fellow Board members to run it any other way. 

Worst of all that is what the fans want, A club that concentrates of football instead of a club that supports football 

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[quote user="Paint Me Yellow"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="canary cherub "]

17,000 can be wrong I can assure you. 

[/quote]Presumably if they disagree with you?[/quote]

Alot of people said Columbus was wrong when he declared the earth was round....

[/quote]So in 500 years time we will all remember the far-sighted visionary Canary Cherub who will stand out as one of the great figures of the 21st Century!

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Bobert, if Mr Doncaster runs the club in an amateur way surely you, me and the rest should be asking why?

Why are there no more fellow board members to transform their thinking/planning/philosophy?

Why do they year on year just carry on hoping for things to get better?

Doncaster is qualified as a solicitor, he has risen up the ranks of NCFC and the rest of the board seem content with this.

Believe me I would love to see an introduction of fresh faces and thinking onto the board, whether or not this came with more investment. However, it seems that the board itself is quite content to go about its business as it is at present. Yes, the board have called for and are seeking investment - but it seems they don''t look to be in a hurry to attract anyone else along to their cosy little party which might just enable them to dig their way out of "small business" thinking and get back into the reality of what''s needed to run a football club.

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[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Bobert, if Mr Doncaster runs the club in an amateur way surely you, me and the rest should be asking why? Why are there no more fellow board members to transform their thinking/planning/philosophy? Why do they year on year just carry on hoping for things to get better? Doncaster is qualified as a solicitor, he has risen up the ranks of NCFC and the rest of the board seem content with this. Believe me I would love to see an introduction of fresh faces and thinking onto the board, whether or not this came with more investment. However, it seems that the board itself is quite content to go about its business as it is at present. Yes, the board have called for and are seeking investment - but it seems they don''t look to be in a hurry to attract anyone else along to their cosy little party which might just enable them to dig their way out of "small business" thinking and get back into the reality of what''s needed to run a football club.[/quote]

Gazza we have been asking why for a long time now and to be honest we have the answer. Delia is firmly of the belief that there is a price for a Director ship in football. She believes it is an honour that can be bought and her price is £2 million (or there abouts) a year. This roughly matches her annual investment if you take loss of interest, expenses, travelling time, etc. into account together with her funds to the paying side.The only professional Directors on the Boad are Neil Doncaster and Roger Munby who earn salaries for the jobs they do.

Roger is the only one who has ever worked in business as he was Marketing Director at Trebor Mints a subsidiary of Colemans. However Marketing Directors do not know a lot about running "big" business I am sorry to say as they almost always work to a budget and do not get involved in the nitty, gritty.  Good Chief Executives are in short supply and are headhunted by oil companies, motor manufactures, banks, telephone companies, pension funds. They earn good money half a million pounds and upwards. That money is not available to NCFC and if it was there would be those on this board complaining that such sums should be paid to players not executives.

There remains only one source for the guys the club needs and that is retired or semi retired business exectutives who would work for nothing or for very little. I  doubt these people are  known to Delia as she has not moved in the circles where they are; sometimes she meets them but does not recognise them or their ability. She did hire a retired executive once who was a former Sainsbury''s director but he was a disaster because, in my opinion, he did not have the right background to understand the roots of football and the background of most of the fans.

Football is all about "class" and not wanting any! Knowing how to swear without giving offense. Eating pies and drinking beer! Hiring and firing.........I am sure you understand me.

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MWJ was in business - he ran a publishing company . Foulger is in business - he runs a large poultry firm. Bob Cooper wasn''t a retired executive - he was a not very successful Sainsburys Sales Director - don''t forget at the time MWJ and Delia were very tied up with Sainsburys.

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[quote user="fleggy"]MWJ was in business - he ran a publishing company . Foulger is in business - he runs a large poultry firm. Bob Cooper wasn''t a retired executive - he was a not very successful Sainsburys Sales Director - don''t forget at the time MWJ and Delia were very tied up with Sainsburys.[/quote]

fleggy the point I am making is that the Executive needs to be increased in size  with skilled people without a demand for either two million pounds of investment or a salary the club cannot afford to pay. MWJ was in business a long time ago and times change fast in business life. We hear very little of what skills Mr Foulger brings to the club so I assume it is money. He says almost nothing at the Annual General Meetings. Delia needs to spread the load with good, skilled, people. I am sure they are about and would be pleased to help the club without reward  if only Delia wouuld recognise them and welcome them.

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Excellent points Bobert, the main gripe I have with the current board of directors is as you have described. Why won''t they ''allow'' anyone who could help with good business sense onboard?

I have asked this question and just got a glib answer saying they welcome anyone who can help. Words however not backed up with action. Five people with so much power and control and where have they got us?

Changes have to come, but sadly I don''t think even relegation would force the current five into making any. They have convinced themselves they have only made TWO mistakes in all their time in control (Roeder and Grant) and that they are all experienced owners/directors of a football club, so that''s alright then isn''t it. Also, of course, we get the stock answers/statements from Doncaster saying we can''t compete with other clubs in the Championship as we don''t have wealthy benefactors.

Again and again the stumbling block for me is the fact that two people own 62% of the shares and therefore as good as have total control. What has to happen to get them to change their thinking I don''t really know Bobert. Like you I believe there are people out there who could help the club produce some coherent plans and thinking for going forwards, but if you don''t look, you don''t find.

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[quote user="Badger"][quote user="Paint Me Yellow"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="canary cherub "]

17,000 can be wrong I can assure you. 

[/quote]

Presumably if they disagree with you?
[/quote]

Alot of people said Columbus was wrong when he declared the earth was round....

[/quote]

So in 500 years time we will all remember the far-sighted visionary Canary Cherub who will stand out as one of the great figures of the 21st Century!
[/quote]

Er....No

The point is the minority aren''t always wrong. Just because 17k fans renewed season tickets doesn''t mean they''re right about the club.

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