Misleading Academy

[birdman 0]

I have been watching the Academy team for several years and this year has been very misleading as the club pulled out of the reserves league they played there young pro''s, all the other clubs have been playing their 16/17 year olds. We have been getting results but our team in my view is a false one, Lathrope, Smith and Daley have played in a lot of our matches and without them we would not have got many of the results that we have.

I am also amazed at some of the decisions, Kris Renton was loaned out to Kings Lynn a few weeks ago and has not scored, this is not a surprise to me as he struggled in the youth team.

The Academy has a habit of making strange signings, they have just signed Danny Kelly as a forward, he has also struggled to score goals for the team, they have released Nick Davey who has scored almost 3 times more goals?

I have stopped watching the team at the moment as it is a Joke, I always went there to see the young players competing against there own age groups, this is not happening at the moment and it is a complete farce. People who do not go to the games will look at the league table and see us in 3rd, but this has been achieved by using older players... The reserves need to be in the reserves league, not the youth team.

One last point, in my opinion this goes back to Roeder''s decision to pull out of the reserves league, I think he has helped to send our young players backwards.

[Whats a right winger 0]

Not the first comment by Birdman against the academy..some axe to grind?

Yes Daley & Lathrope have played out of their age range but sorry Kory Smith is still a second year(and neither of the first two are physically robust ). I have seen the academy several times recently and been impressed with a number of players especially the defence Francomb, Dumic , Stephens & Haberham all first years. Quite likely some will make it and some won''t but I struggle with Birdmans previous assertion that this crop is worse than before. Very few if any of players released by City in recent years have gone on to play at decent non league level let alone in the league. As he says he''s stopped watching them, perhaps the improvements I''ve seen since last November have passed him by.

Kelly of course can play in defence or up front and may make a useful targetman and I see no problem in giving him another year to develop.Its hardly going to break the bank.

Last point we will be back in the reserve league next year

[birdman 0]

It amazes me that when I say things that are against the Academy I am pounced on, I am sure you have missed a great deal of my positive comments, I would also add that most of the players that are kept on only make it to lower league and non league levels. "(Eagles 3 years of reserve team , Lathrope, Roeders next wonder boy 1 year of academy football) One of my points was missed by you, the development of these young lads relies on levels and when the reserves league was removed from this they started to play for the youth team. This had a double effect, the young pro''s stood still and the younger players sit on the bench all season, is that what you call development, playing local team is not a step up from playing other academy sides.

I can only think that you are a member of the yes men"academy staff, the ones that agreed it was a good idea when the idiot Roeder pulled us out of the reserves league and killed the development level.

I have also pointed out in the passed that Kelly is a defender (a good one) and I am glad you have spotted this, hopefully you agree he is not a forward as he would be scoring a lot more goals and if he is a defender why do the Academy staff that you trust so much keep playing him as a failed striker, my definition of a striker is someone who scores goals, we already have enough non scoring forwards at the club.

[Whats a right winger 0]

Sorry if I''ve missed your positive comments but your two previous postings have been IMO negative.

To get one thing straight, I have no connection with the academy, have never personally known a player or member of staff in the academy and was disgusted when we pulled out of the reserve league and said so.

I have watched our youth sides over the past 40 years and the standard has fluctuated greatly. The last few years have been barren and I think its good that at present there are signs of recovery and one or two players may actually make decent players.

Re Danny Kelly yes he is a decent centre back..better than Dumic & Stevens? I don''t know. As a striker he is developing. he may make it, he may not. He is a target man and as we know they are not always prolific but can contribute to a TEAM. That is also what has pleased me this year the boys are more of a team than before. Its always been said that an academy aspires to bring through  a couple of good players per year. We''ve failed in the past few years to achieve this or even look like doing it, I think some of this side have a chance

[Rocky Rocastle 0]

    Glad I bought my handbag with me into this post.....

[Yellow Wal 315]

But the one thing that must be agreed is that without a Reserve team any natural progression of youth players is stiffled. It was an idiotic decision from an idiotic manager. Perhaps it was a money saving exercise so that we could get a few more loanees in!

[The Fish Seller 0]

I dont think you can blame Roeder for this decision have you not noticed we''ve struggled to afford fielding one team per week what chance would we have had trying to keep two going?

[birdman 0]

You would be right that my last two posts on the Academy have been negative, I just feel that if you are looking for a striker he is the one putting the ball in the net, simple really. Nick Davey has done this consistently all season and gets released, Danny Kelly struggles, scores about 5 goals all season and gets a pro, my feelings are there is just a little something wrong with this?

[Just what the Doc ordered 0]

Understand your point Birdman but i have mentioned something about this on the ''nick davey being released'' page. Given your knowledge of the academy this season, i was wondering if you could tell me how these players in particular have performed this season;

Habergham, Reeves, Stephens/Dumic (whos better?), Francomb, Dawkin. All players who are apparently quite good but dont hear much about. thanks

[birdman 0]

Haberham is a very good player along with Stephens and Dumic and Dawkins. Reeves is another player that has suffered through the reserves being axed as he has spent most of the season on the bench as young pro''s have been put in the team ahead of him. I am not here to slag any of the boys off as it is a very harsh world that they are in with very fine lines of success. I can only repeat that strange decisions are made at the Academy and my opinion is that they need and deserve an x pro as a manager.

Out of all of these boys I would say Haberham has the best chance, but I will more than likely be surprised.

[Just what the Doc ordered 0]

Yeah i think he is being internationally recognised now by England which is the first outfield player we have had in their for a good few years. Its hard because the players will no only a few of them can make it, and i would agree an ex pro fully understanding what it takes to make it would be more beneficial. However Martin may be an outstanding coach, i dont know, what are your thoughts on him from going to the games? alot of people i know think hes a tw*t and really arrogant?

Hopefully out of this squad we can produce 2 or 3 good players for the first team cos anymore is a big ask. I think Adeyemi could go all the way.

[birdman 0]

Ricky Martin is very arrogant, but I cannot understand why, he has not produced a regular first team player since he took over about 6 years ago.

My understanding is that he never played as a pro and was a very average lower league player.

A pro manager would in my opinion take the boys to a much higher level, if you look at the better academy teams their coaches are x pro''s and there are plenty at Colney

[AJ 1,359]

Birdman, I have met Martin and didn''t find him arrogant at all.The failure to produce a promisising prosepect is hardly his fault - but it does sound like we''re getting a good string of them through now.

[can u sit down please 0]

[quote user="birdman"]Ricky Martin is very arrogant, but I cannot understand why, he has not produced a regular first team player since he took over about 6 years ago. My understanding is that he never played as a pro and was a very average lower league player. A pro manager would in my opinion take the boys to a much higher level, if you look at the better academy teams their coaches are x pro''s and there are plenty at Colney[/quote]

agree 100%. I was "lucky" to cross his path at Cambridge.....I say lucky........[:p]

[birdman 0]

Obviously didn''t spend too long with him, I have met very few people at the Academy that do not think he is arrogant, just ask a few parents

[birdman 0]

Also I am not sure how you can say that it''s not his failure to produce a prospect? I thought he was the coach, I hope we do have a few now, but we have been here before, Jarvis, Lathrope and Eagles to name just 3.

[inoffthepost 0]

Agree with birdman re his comments at the academy - some of the players have suffered through lack of opportunities such as Reeves and Clarke who were taken on as strikers. With Roeders odd belief that kelly was a striker - yes he holds the ball up well but is no where near a natural as either Davey or even possibly Reeves or Clarke who have been given few chances.

It must be frustrating for a few of the boys through no fault of their own have not been given a chance boys need to be playing regularly, give them the chance and see if they stack up.

I agree that Habergam will be the next to be signed - great left foot, good deliverer of balls in the box, good at overlapping  and always full of energy.

 

[bradley11 0]

Having Seen Kenny (Reeves) play and played against him numerous times throughout youth football, I can confidently say that Norwich City have as it stands done very little for him, I saw him the other week play for CNS and he was frankly, Shocking....far different from the Kenny i remembered. If the players arnt going to make the grade for the Norwich squads, allow them to go out to other local clubs on season long loans or something instead of not playing him in any hard, competitve football...

[Just what the Doc ordered 0]

It seems a common trate for quite a few players to go into the academy and come out actually worse players. Surely the least you should be able to take out of being released is you are a better player for the ''specialist'' training recieved? Seems not. Apparently kenny left to pursue A levels earlier in the year when he realised he was getting no where, and struggled to fit in with the cocky banter involved in the academy. But played when called upon cos striker shortage just stopped training every day. Also how much is someone like Ricky Martin going to be on? a fair wack i imagine.

[birdman 0]

Not sure how a person who has never played at the pro level can train boys up to a pro standard.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

Birdman - is it true that Norwich Academy had their best run in the FA Youth Cup this season beating three Premiership sides along the way and only losing out to last year''s winners Man City - who are unbeaten this season - by a single goal? Might this prove that actually Ricky Martin does have a good idea about what he''s doing? Why did you neglect to mention this in your original post?

And while we''re at it would you care to remind us how many times you came on here at the beginning of the season and slagged off Korey Smith and said he would never make it. Have you suddenly realised that you were probably wrong about that and so gone quiet about it and hoped that nobody would notice?

 

[ZLF 335]

[quote user="birdman"]Not sure how a person who has never played at the pro level can train boys up to a pro standard.[/quote]

Mourinho seems to have a pretty good knack of getting footballers to play?

[ZLF 335]

[quote user="Thirsty Lizard"]

only losing out to last year''s winners Man City - who are unbeaten this season - by a single goal?

[/quote]

I think that the gooners beat them 4-1 earlier this week to knock them out of the cup?

[birdman 0]

Has Korey Smith made it then? 15 minutes on the pitch as a midfielder, if you read my post it stated that I felt he was a MIDFIELDER but Mr. Martin was trying to turn him in to a right back and that I felt he did not have the speed to be a right back.

Last year the academy came up against the semi finalists in the first round (Sunderland), I think you might find they beat Wigan who do not have a fully fledged Academy, more an in the community side, they beat Everton and this was a good result, seems people on here are quick to say the people released and who end up at Glasgow Rangers have not made it but a boy who comes on for 15 minutes has made it. If this is the case Eagles has made it for the last three years, Kris Renton has made it (now struggling at Kings Lynn), I could keep naming players but I am sure you could name lots of Academy players that play every week who has been brought through by Ricky Martin. My point on many of the boys is that Mr. Martin seems to want to fit square pegs in round holes, he has a habit of wanting to play boys out of possition, when Danny Kelly plays up front for Norwich and bangs the goals in I will come on here and apologize and say he knows what he is doing I will do the same if Korey plays right back, Danny is a DEFENDER something that the republic of Ireland have grasped.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="birdman"] The Academy has a habit of making strange signings, they have just signed Danny Kelly as a forward, he has also struggled to score goals for the team, they have released Nick Davey who has scored almost 3 times more goals? .[/quote]

I think its been reported that Kelly sees himself as a centre back.

[inoffthepost 0]

Birdman correct - Kelly played in midfield yesterday and looked a lot more comfortable there than upfront and he scored as well as the impressive Nick Davey.

[birdman 0]

Getting closer to his best position then, maybe Mr. Matin has seen the light, or is he still away with the younger boys?

Hopefully as you obviously watch the Youth team you get my point about Danny and other boys being played out of position, he is a very good player in his rightful position.

Nick Davey scored again, so that means he must be the top Academy striker for the past few seasons and Mr. Martin is releasing him?

[Whats a right winger 0]

Sorry Birdman, I don''t want to knock the lad but Davey has scored 8 goals this season for the youth team, one more than Danny Kelly. Luke Daley was top scorer last year with 9 and Kris Renton has 9 this year and yes he was playing out of age but was recouperating from a year long injury. On the subject of over age players I see yesterdays victory was achieved with 3 second years, 6 first years and two schoolboys and didn''t include either Smith or Adeyemi presumably training with the first team. I have to wonder at you bitterness towards the coach, he can only work with the raw materials and quite frankly the quality just hasn''t been there in recent years

 

[birdman 0]

I think you will find that most of Renton and Daley''s goals were scored in pre season and yes they are both over aged players, just how long does it take to get over a broken leg as this has been healed over a year, when can we start saying the Academy made another mistake, how many of the Coventry boys were second year scholars yesterday as most clubs have now released boys that they are not keeping and are now looking at trialists. As for working with raw talent he is the one who gives the scholarships out. How many more years before we can call him a failure? There was a much better man in charge befor (sammy Morgan) who did produce a first team regular. My bitterness if that''s what you want to call it is that Martin is not up to the job and some very good coaches were removed from the Academy last year, Ian Thornton for one who''s teams were awarded the best team of the year within the Academy three years in a row, but Martin had him removed, perhaps he was threatened? Why are you excepting second best? If this was your company and your Academy manager failed to produce a first team regular in 5 years would you keep him ? I wouldn''t, I would want a return on the money ploughed in to the Academy.

[canary cherub 1]

I think you have to ask how much pulling out of the reserve league was a purely footballing decision and how much it was influenced by cost cutting.