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can u sit down please

If Southampton stayed up...........

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]

and the league decided not to dock them 10 points resulting in us going down, would you want us to take them to court ala Wet Sham/Sheff Utd?

Or would you just want us to accept it and move on??? It may happen!

[/quote]fight it all the way....and im sure LEEDS,,LUTON + OTHERS would jump on the bandwagon

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Whether it effects us or not if their justice in the world Southampton will be deducted 10pts thats only fair!

 

Nothing against Southampton but fairs fair, especially when you look at Lutons current predicament!

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Question is have "Southampton" actually gone in to administration? It''s not clear. And If I am not mistaken has there not been a deadline set which dictates whether or not the points deduction is in the current season or the next. And if I''m not also mistaken that date passed before the parent company went in to administration. Now as I said I''m confused as to whether Southampton FC have gone in to administration and whether the parent company thingy counts. But the deadline date for which season you receive the deduction point to them losing those point next term. Who knows. I think your right the football league would be delighted if they went down anyway relieving them of any possible remonstrations from the club that was relegated instead.

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If they dont get points deducted there will be a raft of other clubs rushing to set up "holding" companies so that they can then go into administration,wipe out their debts and carry on debt free. And how many clubs are debt free? It will be interesting to see what happens when all the money men currently owning Prem clubs get fed up or find another hobby.

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[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

Whether it effects us or not if their justice in the world Southampton will be deducted 10pts thats only fair!

 

Nothing against Southampton but fairs fair, especially when you look at Lutons current predicament!

[/quote]Life isn''t fair,  if Southampton has played the rules,  there''s bugger all us, the courts or anyone can do.  Except the FL to change the rules,  but on this occasion it''ll be too late.

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[quote user="Hardhouse44"]Question is have "Southampton" actually gone in to administration? It''s not clear. And If I am not mistaken has there not been a deadline set which dictates whether or not the points deduction is in the current season or the next. And if I''m not also mistaken that date passed before the parent company went in to administration. Now as I said I''m confused as to whether Southampton FC have gone in to administration and whether the parent company thingy counts. But the deadline date for which season you receive the deduction point to them losing those point next term. Who knows. I think your right the football league would be delighted if they went down anyway relieving them of any possible remonstrations from the club that was relegated instead.

[/quote]The passed deadline doesn''t mean they cannot be deducted points this season, it just means that, if they are seen to be in administration by the FA, the points deduction will apply next season if they are relegated, but this season if they stay up within ten points of the relegation zone.

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[quote user="Beds Canary"][quote user="Hardhouse44"]Question is have "Southampton" actually gone in to administration? It''s not clear. And If I am not mistaken has there not been a deadline set which dictates whether or not the points deduction is in the current season or the next. And if I''m not also mistaken that date passed before the parent company went in to administration. Now as I said I''m confused as to whether Southampton FC have gone in to administration and whether the parent company thingy counts. But the deadline date for which season you receive the deduction point to them losing those point next term. Who knows. I think your right the football league would be delighted if they went down anyway relieving them of any possible remonstrations from the club that was relegated instead.

[/quote]The passed deadline doesn''t mean they cannot be deducted points this season, it just means that, if they are seen to be in administration by the FA, the points deduction will apply next season if they are relegated, but this season if they stay up within ten points of the relegation zone.[/quote]So they''re already relegated then on that premise. If as you say they''re considered to be in administration. Either way there is sod all we can do about it except get the point to stay up anyway.

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[quote user="Hardhouse44"][quote user="Beds Canary"][quote user="Hardhouse44"]Question is have "Southampton" actually gone in to administration? It''s not clear. And If I am not mistaken has there not been a deadline set which dictates whether or not the points deduction is in the current season or the next. And if I''m not also mistaken that date passed before the parent company went in to administration.

Now as I said I''m confused as to whether Southampton FC have gone in to administration and whether the parent company thingy counts. But the deadline date for which season you receive the deduction point to them losing those point next term.

Who knows. I think your right the football league would be delighted if they went down anyway relieving them of any possible remonstrations from the club that was relegated instead.


[/quote]

The passed deadline doesn''t mean they cannot be deducted points this season, it just means that, if they are seen to be in administration by the FA, the points deduction will apply next season if they are relegated, but this season if they stay up within ten points of the relegation zone.
[/quote]So they''re already relegated then on that premise. If as you say they''re considered to be in administration. Either way there is sod all we can do about it except get the point to stay up anyway.
[/quote]

Just don''t give them any fixtures for next season....Tell them to RAM IT!

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3 teams get relegated.. so if we go down along with Charlton and A N othr then we werent good enough.. we''d have no grounds of appeal as much as the other team we go down with.. move on...

jas :)

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

3 teams get relegated.. so if we go down along with Charlton and A N othr then we werent good enough.. we''d have no grounds of appeal as much as the other team we go down with.. move on...

jas :)

[/quote]Totally agree Jas. At the end of the day, if you finish in the bottom three at the end of the season - you''re there because you deserve to be.

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[quote user="AJ"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

3 teams get relegated.. so if we go down along with Charlton and A N othr then we werent good enough.. we''d have no grounds of appeal as much as the other team we go down with.. move on...

jas :)

[/quote]

Totally agree Jas. At the end of the day, if you finish in the bottom three at the end of the season - you''re there because you deserve to be.
[/quote]

 

Typical little old Norwich lets just accept being screwed over attitude. If we go down because they don''t have 10 points deducted i would expect us to do everything and exhaust every legal option to try and take some kind of action.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="AJ"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

3 teams get relegated.. so if we go down along with Charlton and A N othr then we werent good enough.. we''d have no grounds of appeal as much as the other team we go down with.. move on...

jas :)

[/quote]

Totally agree Jas. At the end of the day, if you finish in the bottom three at the end of the season - you''re there because you deserve to be.
[/quote]

 

Typical little old Norwich lets just accept being screwed over attitude. If we go down because they don''t have 10 points deducted i would expect us to do everything and exhaust every legal option to try and take some kind of action.

[/quote]

We would sit by and do sod all Jim, we''re nice little old Norwich who don''t rock boats.

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I said it on another post - my worst case scenario for the season is a crummy points haul from the next three placing us behind an un-docked S''Ton. A minging summer of court battles and debate distracting from football.

3 against the Scum and a draw elsewhere and we avoid that nightmare nicely!

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

3 teams get relegated.. so if we go down along with Charlton and A N othr then we werent good enough.. we''d have no grounds of appeal as much as the other team we go down with.. move on...

jas :)

[/quote]

While I agree in part with your sentiments Jas, it is a ridiculous statement.  There are rules which govern the game and they are there to be adhered to!! If you break the rules you are punished.  Get a red card, you leave the field, go into administration, you are docked points....... Simples!

How many points did Luton get this season?  Were they one of the better teams in league 2? No they didn''t, but yes they were! They out performed far more than 2 other teams in their division but, they broke the rules so they go down!!  The same should apply to Southampton.

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I think if every team apart from us was donated 10 points from the FL, I think some people on here would still accept it and say "Yes, we''re in the bottom 3 because we''re not good enough, we didn''t accumulate more than the 10 points every else had been given for free"

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Southampton are trying to be clever. The Football League legal eagles have to tread very carefully before docking them points, but I hope they find away around it.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]

and the league decided not to dock them 10 points resulting in us going down, would you want us to take them to court ala Wet Sham/Sheff Utd?

Or would you just want us to accept it and move on??? It may happen!

[/quote]

If Southampton stay up and we go down it will be for footballing reasons, and that''s the way it''s supposed to be.  Going into admin doesn''t give them any advantage in the short term.  The Tevez situation was different because it affected the outcome on the field of play.

Once the mess is sorted out and they start again clear of their debts, that''s when an advantage could be gained.  They shouldn''t avoid a points deduction altogether but it should take place next season not this, regardless of whether they stay up or go down. 

If the rules really do state that a club going into admin after the deadline should lose 10 points the same season if they stay up, it''s the rules that need changing.  Think about it.  If they know a 10 point deduction will relegate them anyway it removes the incentive to try and stay up.  Giving their opponents an easy ride in the last few vital games can influence promotion and relegation issues for other clubs.    

If we get relegated it will be down to us, not anyone else.  Unless this club starts taking responsibility for itself instead of looking for someone else to blame, nothing will change.  I cringe at the thought of yet another "poor little Norwich" whinge from the powers that be [:$] [+o(]

 

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I was of the opinion that it''s our fault if we go down regardless... But I''ve kinda changed my tune now. Yet another club spending beyond their means has affected not just football and thee other teams in the league but real life situations too, contributed to job losses due to companies missing out on promised money from southampton a la the 5p per pound ipswich debacle. It''s their own fault they''re in this mess and so they should be punished!

To put it simply, you lend someone 20 quid so they can go out for the day or something and they say they can get it to you on the friday when they get paid and then they don''t have it to pay back then, you''re gonna b annoyed and, apart from a few days grace... You''re gonna think there''s injustice there. Works the same if someone buys something off you and doesn''t pay you by the time they''ve agreed they would.

You don''t see our club run like that, we seem to badly lose out in that respect therefore I hope, if they have broken the rules, they get a fitting punishment as judged by the fa 10 points. It would be sad if we stayed up relying on that still tho

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[quote user="cityangel"]Did they say when a decision would be made about Southampton??[/quote]I guess they didn''t because forensic accountants will take as long as it takes.

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Correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure that its now about a fortnight since they delayed the decision. Does it really take them two weeks to look throught all these accounts?

I have to say I wouldnt be suprised if the league are sitting there trying to decide which option would cause the least hassle. Deduct them the points and of course Southampton are going to appeal it and that one will drag it on even longer. But then not deducting them the points will probably put them in an even more stickier situation as firstly the teams who went down instead of them will be appealing not deducting points and it will probably be a repeat of the West Ham/Sheffield United saga. And teams are going to be wanting compensation. Also Leeds and Luton will be on their cases in a flash if they dont deduct them points

 

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[quote user="ndhscanary"]

Correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure that its now about a fortnight since they delayed the decision. Does it really take them two weeks to look throught all these accounts?

I have to say I wouldnt be suprised if the league are sitting there trying to decide which option would cause the least hassle. Deduct them the points and of course Southampton are going to appeal it and that one will drag it on even longer. But then not deducting them the points will probably put them in an even more stickier situation as firstly the teams who went down instead of them will be appealing not deducting points and it will probably be a repeat of the West Ham/Sheffield United saga. And teams are going to be wanting compensation. Also Leeds and Luton will be on their cases in a flash if they dont deduct them points

 

[/quote]

Having previously dealt with forensic accountants I can confirm that they do not deal with things overnight, the detail within which they have to go through the accounts can take a while.

I agree with one of the first responses, the ideal outcome for the FL will be Southampton getting relegated without any 10 point deduction, then they can close the holding company loophole and there wont be too much comeback from that.

Southampton have already said publicly that they feel they are on a sound legal footing with regard to not having 10 points deducted, so the FL need to be absolutely sure before declaring anything, if they do try and deduct points from Southampton there will be appeals, Court cases, the works.

I can just see this saga dragging on through the summer, particularly if Southampton do survive and the FL try to deduct 10 points.  What are the chances of getting to early August and one team (hopefully not us) still not knowing for definite what division they will be playing in?

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I''ve been chewing this one over for a few days and there are a few comments that spring to mind.

Firstly, as I''m sure everyone is aware, there are two seperate legal identities involved here and it''s the holding company in administration, rather than the football club. The holding company was actually formed back in the 1990''s when the Club decided to raise capital by becoming listed and trading it''s shares on the Alternative Investment Market. It was not formed, as some have suggested, as some form of wheeze to avoid the adminstration penalty that now exists, as the holding company formation actually pre-dated the current rules.

Secondly, the Southampton comments regarding the precedent being set by Derby County previously being in Receivership and not receiving a ten point penalty are somewhat misleading. For a start, the Derby were only in Receivership for a few hours before being purchased by former directors who took over all the existing debts. Additionally, at the time this happened, although the Football League had actually approved the rule change relating to the introduction of the ten point penalty, crucially, the rule chage didn''t actually become effective until the end of that season.

Thirdly, since the ten point penalty was first introduced, the Football League rules have subsequently been amended in light of the Leeds United situation and I beleive this is the first example where a holding company has gone into Adminstration, but the Club hasn''t. The current rules probably don''t specifically cover such an event, so the Football League can''t just impose a ten point penalty on the Club as this would contravene its own rules and would certainly result in the Club taking legal action.

However, the crucial points must be, how close are the two companies to being one and the same? Can one exist without the other? Is one reliant on the other for funding or income? Barclays refused to extend the overdraft on the Holding Company, why did that Company need this cash? Was it to pay the wages of the players or to help it service it''s debt? If it was the latter, was it because the Football Club weren''t paying their debt installments to the Holding Company? There are probably many more questions like this and I honestly don''t know the answers, which is why I think the Football League are perfectly correct to instruct Forensic Accounts to review the situation before passing judgement.

Fourthly, whatever the outcome of the Southampton situation, I''d expect the Football League to clarify the rules on similar situations for future reference.

Personally, I hope Southampton are relegated for footballing reasons and if we happen to be in the remaining relegation spot, then so be it. However, that still doesn''t avoid the fact that there needs to be a proper review of Southampton''s financial position in order to determine whether or not they''ve "secured" a financial advantage as a result of their set up. If they have, this undermines the integrity of the entire Football League competition irrespective of which division they''re playing in next season and this should give rise to a penalty accordingly. Afterall, football and finance are linked and directors need to behave in a professional manner accordingly.

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