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Mister Chops

Hillsborough, 20 years on

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Sorry, bit of a random post, but I was just reading on another thread that it''s the 20th anniversary of the Hillsborough tragedy on the 15th April.  My only memory of it is not a proud one - listening to the commentary from Villa Park on the radio with Norwich losing 1-0 to Everton in the other semi-final, and not being in the least bit interested as reports of an incident started to filter through from Hillsborough - the media not being nearly as widespread in their coverage as today.  Thinking "stop talking about it, get back to the Norwich match"... and then as the full story began to emerge, it no longer seemed to matter that we''d lost an FA Cup semi-final.  Well it did, I was gutted.  But it was just a game of football and everyone got home safely.I''ve just browsed online and seen pictures of the Hillborough pitch carpeted in flowers from end to end, every blade of grass hidden under bouquets and scarves.  There''s something about that image that is terribly sad.  All seater stadia may not be to everyone''s taste, but if it prevents another high profile disaster like this from happening again then so be it.

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No need to apologise Chops, I think that the anniversary of Hillsborough is the most important football new story this week. I remember listening (like you) to news of our match that day and the story unfolding from the Liverpool game and seeing the resulting news stories afterwards. I won''t forget the memories of that day and there were a couple of pretty graphic TV dramas made of the day as well.

At the time I was living on the Isle of Man and made regular trips to Liverpool and got to know the city pretty well. I will always have a soft spot for the city and its people and indeed knew a few people at the time on the island who were lost loved ones at the game.

At the moment I am listening to today''s game at Anfield and I can only imagine what this anniversary means to those involved. A nice touch from Warnock, a Blackburn player, but formerly a Liverpool player who laid a wreath in front of the Kop.

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I was not old enough to remember the events of the day. All i know is that i was at Villa Park with my family. It wasnt until my first visit to Anfield that I knew the events of that tragic day. On that day Norwich were providing the last memory of the Standing Kop, it was also the day that I learnt all about Hillsborough. Seeing the Eternal Flame, Shankly Gates, and hearing You''ll Never Walk Alone.

But at that time I was 8 Years old, at my first ever away game. Seeing the memorial, I can remember asking my mum what all the numbers next to the ages meant, to an 8 year old, finding out that was the ages of the 96 people who were died that day was a bit of a shock. I couldn''t understand how.

Since that day i have returned to Anfield on numerous occasions, including to games around the anniversary whilst i was at Uni there. Its a moving date in the football season, not only for Liverpool fans, but many others.

Its an event in the History of football that needs to be remembered across the country. I read an interesting article on the BBC Sport site, I believe it was shown on Football focus today...  this is the Blog version.

"It was a run-of-the-mill conversation with a friend in a pub. The kind of conversation you might have any night of the week - the kind that might change your life.

I had just bought my ticket for the 1989 FA Cup semi-final, a ticket for the Leppings Lane end. I had been to Hillsborough enough times to know that the view from this sunken terrace was of railings and boots almost at eye-level.

My friend Tony, a Manchester United fan, sympathised over a pint and told me that he had found a way to the open segment of terracing over the corner flag. "Less atmosphere, but if you want to actually get a decent view of the game it might be worth checking out. Just get through the turnstile and head left."

At about two o''clock on 15 April, I made my way into Hillsborough and was confronted by the low-ceilinged tunnel that led to the central terracing behind the goal - already looking full. I headed left.

This Saturday, Football Focus will be live at both Anfield and Hillsborough to mark the 20th anniversary of the disaster at Sheffield Wednesday''s ground - a disaster which claimed 96 lives and which changed British football forever.

As part of the programme, I was asked to return to Hillsborough to retrace my steps that day. I had some misgivings about taking part.

Firstly, I felt my story was insignificant compared to that of so many others - I''d been safe throughout and didn''t know anyone who died. Secondly, although I had been back to Hillsborough as a commentator, I hadn''t stood on the Leppings Lane in the 20 years that have passed. I expected it to be difficult. It was.

The turnstiles are still there, the tunnel is still there. Everything about the place resonates, everything so familiar. Just being there induced a feeling of nausea in the pit of my stomach.

For the purposes of the camera, I went through the turnstile and was confronted by that low ceilinged tunnel - empty. Again I headed left for the terracing that had been my vantage point on that awful afternoon.

For 96 people who paused at the tunnel and headed straight on, there would be no chance of safety. No chance to step away from the seemingly trivial decision they had just made. No way to escape from the cage behind the Hillsborough goal.


I was 21 in April 1989 - older than many of those who died. In the 20 years since, I have been blessed with a happy marriage, three children and a fulfilling career. What might the 96 have done in that time? What love affairs have never been, what friendships never forged, what children never conceived?


The game has changed, and some say not completely for the better. But if you are lucky enough to be able to take your children to a match and sit in safety; to be treated with respect by those who police our grounds and to get home again without being crushed or scared, give those 96 a thought.

Honour, for a moment, those whose deaths made it happen."

Steve Wilson - BBC Commentator.

I''m unsure if all clubs are marking this event. I feel it would be shame if they didn''t. This is a moving tribute, well done to the BBC for helping others to understand what happened that awful afternoon. It has always made me look at football a different way.

15/04/1989 - 20 years ago this Wednesday. I myself will spare 2 minutes this Wednesday at 3.06 pm to remember those fans.

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Hillsborough was probably one of the worst days of my life after the full enormity hit in when I got back from Villa Park. 

If you cast your minds back to that Semi Final day, there was little news filtering through to the fans at Villa Park of what was really unfolding. No (or very few) mobile phones in those days don''t forget and TV sets in grounds were nothing like as common place as now.  The first sense that something was happening was a brief message flashed up on the scoreboard simply saying ....''Kick off delayed''. The natural assumption was fans delayed getting to the ground or a bit of crowd trouble. If my memory is true then even at half time I don''t think most of us had a clue what was really happening. Then a bit later the message flashed up.....''game abandoned'' and I knew something a bit serious was going down. Leaving the ground at the end of the match I seem to remember hearing some whispers that ''five people had died'' or something like that. That was bad enough and we walked back to our car with some trepidation but still none of us in our party were remotely envisaging the horror that hit us when the car radio was switched on. ''Fifty dead''!

That news hit me like a hammer, we were all devastated and the journey home was simply awful. From the noisy, colourful, optimistic beginning to the day hoping that we would make history by getting to the FA Cup Final for the first time, the mood after 5.00pm or so was just one of unremitting sadness and the blackest of black clouds. Fifty lost lives was terrible, imagine the shock when I got home and there was Match of the Day just finishing (well, there was no ''match'', simply a re-run and up to date news) with the latest death toll of over 90!.

I remember sitting with my head in my hands that night and crying, I am not in the slightest bit embarrased or ashamed to admit that. Even watching this lunchtime the ''Hillsborough 20 years on'' programme on BBC 1 and the images and memories unfolded again, it affected me again for sure.

After the tragedy it was a great pity that people everywhere lined up with views on ...''who was responsible''. Predictably the Liverpool (and partly due to the anti establishment mentality that seems to prevail on Merseyside) view was that it no way ''their fault'' at all. As time went on, those outside Merseyside increasingly blamed Liverpool  fans and we have read several posts on this messageboard on the topic in the last year or so. That last thing I will do is take sides but one thing is pretty clear, it was the INNOCENT who died. The victims had been in their places on the terracing for along time before the police decision to open the gates so almost certainly, any Liverpool ''troublemakers'' avoided death.

In The Mail on Sunday two weeks ago, there was a moving and gut wrenching article that was based on the experiences of Kelly Dalglish that day. It is abundantly clear how personally her dad was affected by Hillsborough and we, from this distance, can''t even begin to comprehend the burden that he carried for many, many months. Neverthless, I still found it frustrating that the old Liverpool trait of ''blame'' surfaced so strongly at the end of the article. To be fair though, that may simply be a poignant reflection of the ''blame culture'' in our modern society and, who knows, had the tragedy involved Norwich instead of Liverpool, we may have felt the same anger?

My recollection of that evening journey home was the awful silence in the car. We stopped at a Little Chef somewhere and the atmosphere inside was just the same. No one spoke on that journey home and the minutes silence at Anfield I saw on Sky News this lunchtime was total and haunting. No one spoke - Hillsborough will never leave me - we forget it and trivailise it at our peril.           

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[quote user="Yellow Rider"]

Hillsborough was probably one of the worst days of my life after the full enormity hit in when I got back from Villa Park. 

If you cast your minds back to that Semi Final day, there was little news filtering through to the fans at Villa Park of what was really unfolding. No (or very few) mobile phones in those days don''t forget and TV sets in grounds were nothing like as common place as now.  The first sense that something was happening was a brief message flashed up on the scoreboard simply saying ....''Kick off delayed''. The natural assumption was fans delayed getting to the ground or a bit of crowd trouble. If my memory is true then even at half time I don''t think most of us had a clue what was really happening. Then a bit later the message flashed up.....''game abandoned'' and I knew something a bit serious was going down. Leaving the ground at the end of the match I seem to remember hearing some whispers that ''five people had died'' or something like that. That was bad enough and we walked back to our car with some trepidation but still none of us in our party were remotely envisaging the horror that hit us when the car radio was switched on. ''Fifty dead''!

That news hit me like a hammer, we were all devastated and the journey home was simply awful. From the noisy, colourful, optimistic beginning to the day hoping that we would make history by getting to the FA Cup Final for the first time, the mood after 5.00pm or so was just one of unremitting sadness and the blackest of black clouds. Fifty lost lives was terrible, imagine the shock when I got home and there was Match of the Day just finishing (well, there was no ''match'', simply a re-run and up to date news) with the latest death toll of over 90!.

I remember sitting with my head in my hands that night and crying, I am not in the slightest bit embarrased or ashamed to admit that. Even watching this lunchtime the ''Hillsborough 20 years on'' programme on BBC 1 and the images and memories unfolded again, it affected me again for sure.

After the tragedy it was a great pity that people everywhere lined up with views on ...''who was responsible''. Predictably the Liverpool (and partly due to the anti establishment mentality that seems to prevail on Merseyside) view was that it no way ''their fault'' at all. As time went on, those outside Merseyside increasingly blamed Liverpool  fans and we have read several posts on this messageboard on the topic in the last year or so. That last thing I will do is take sides but one thing is pretty clear, it was the INNOCENT who died. The victims had been in their places on the terracing for along time before the police decision to open the gates so almost certainly, any Liverpool ''troublemakers'' avoided death.

In The Mail on Sunday two weeks ago, there was a moving and gut wrenching article that was based on the experiences of Kelly Dalglish that day. It is abundantly clear how personally her dad was affected by Hillsborough and we, from this distance, can''t even begin to comprehend the burden that he carried for many, many months. Neverthless, I still found it frustrating that the old Liverpool trait of ''blame'' surfaced so strongly at the end of the article. To be fair though, that may simply be a poignant reflection of the ''blame culture'' in our modern society and, who knows, had the tragedy involved Norwich instead of Liverpool, we may have felt the same anger?

My recollection of that evening journey home was the awful silence in the car. We stopped at a Little Chef somewhere and the atmosphere inside was just the same. No one spoke on that journey home and the minutes silence at Anfield I saw on Sky News this lunchtime was total and haunting. No one spoke - Hillsborough will never leave me - we forget it and trivailise it at our peril.           

[/quote]Fantastic post, it was to be 4 more years before I was born when Hillsborough occurred so I had absolutely no idea what it was about for many years, I didn''t properly start following football until 3 or 4 years ago. A very emotional and detailed insight there YellowRider, hopefully it''s something I''ll never have to go through in my lifetime. To think it could so easily have happened to the Norwich or Everton fans at Villa Park is also frightening. It''s hard for somebody like myself, who has been brought up in a world where all football is in seats and there aren''t too many problems with crowds, to fathom how something like this could happen. A sad day for football, and for all of those involved.(PS; just to clarify, were the 2 Semi-Finals ever played?)

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Some great posts on this thread. Those who thought it was a good place to put anti-Scouser jokes i think have made a bit of a misjudgment.

I remember it well - I was not at Villa Park, but was obviously keeping a close eye on the semi-finals at home. Sickening is exactly the right word. I thought Steve Wilson''s piece was very good, except for the last paragraph. I think those who died at Hillsborough have been betrayed by what happened afterwards. The Taylor report was hijacked by clubs and the government who saw an opportunity to change the social class of people who went to football. There were obviously many causes of the disaster, but the fact that the stand was terracing was very low down the list. Lots of grounds needed modernising, but the change to all-seater stadiums and the associated huge increase in prices has changed the game fundamentally for the worse - it opened football up for an era where the TV fan is put before the fans who actually go to games, in other words, fans like the 96 who died.

I went to City''s semi-final at Hillsborough against Sunderland, and the rendition of You''ll Never Walk Alone by both sets of fans before the game was the most moving thing that has happened to me in a football ground. The disaster should be remembered, and any football fan who doesn''t remember it should take the trouble to find out about it. I think that part of finding out about it is to refuse to accept the rewriting of history that says that all-seater stadiums had to happen as a result. It isn''t true and I think it''s an insult to the memory of those who died.

Walk on.

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Like most who have posted, I didn''t realise the full enormity of it all until we stopped off at a Little Thief on the way back from Villa.  I remember seeing the scoreboard flash up saying match abandoned.  I asked a copper who was in the Holte end what had happened.  He said that he didn''t know, but guessed it would be Liverpool fans making trouble.  How wrong he was.

Doesn''t seem like 20 years ago.

Lest we forget..............

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Those who make jokes about Hillsboro bneed to remember 1 thing and 1 thing alone... that one ball Earlier in the draw for the Semi Final was Norwich City...

It could of been your son, your brother, or even you.....

thank lady luck and fate it wasn''t.

jas :)

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

Those who make jokes about Hillsboro bneed to remember 1 thing and 1 thing alone... that one ball Earlier in the draw for the Semi Final was Norwich City...

It could of been your son, your brother, or even you.....

thank lady luck and fate it wasn''t.

jas :)

[/quote]How anybody could make a joke about such a thing disgusts me.

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[quote user="Ciderkidd"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

Those who make jokes about Hillsboro bneed to remember 1 thing and 1 thing alone... that one ball Earlier in the draw for the Semi Final was Norwich City...

It could of been your son, your brother, or even you.....

thank lady luck and fate it wasn''t.

jas :)

[/quote]How anybody could make a joke about such a thing disgusts me.[/quote]Totally, I can only assume that they are children who don''t know any better.  The post about the florist should be removed.  I may have only been 1 when Hillsborough happened, and therefore can''t remember it etc, but I understand how it must have affected football fans and understand how its changed football today.  Anyone making a joke about this should try and think what they would do if they were in the situation, or if one of their relatives was crushed at a football match, those who joke should hang their heads in shame.

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

Those who make jokes about Hillsboro bneed to remember 1 thing and 1 thing alone... that one ball Earlier in the draw for the Semi Final was Norwich City...

It could of been your son, your brother, or even you.....

thank lady luck and fate it wasn''t.

jas :)

[/quote]

Spot on Jas, fecking spot on!!!

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[quote user="ncfcstar"][quote user="Ciderkidd"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

Those who make jokes about Hillsboro bneed to remember 1 thing and 1 thing alone... that one ball Earlier in the draw for the Semi Final was Norwich City...

It could of been your son, your brother, or even you.....

thank lady luck and fate it wasn''t.

jas :)

[/quote]How anybody could make a joke about such a thing disgusts me.[/quote]Totally, I can only assume that they are children who don''t know any better.  The post about the florist should be removed.  I may have only been 1 when Hillsborough happened, and therefore can''t remember it etc, but I understand how it must have affected football fans and understand how its changed football today.  Anyone making a joke about this should try and think what they would do if they were in the situation, or if one of their relatives was crushed at a football match, those who joke should hang their heads in shame.[/quote]I wasn''t even born when it occured, it would be another 4 years before I was so of course I had no recollection of any such thing. I can only thank my lucky stars that every football match I''ve been to I''ve been safe, from during and after.

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Yellow Rider''s post is one of the most erudite posts I have read on here for a long time. As others have intimated, but for the luck of the draw, that terrace could have been full of City fans on that fateful day. Flippancy has no place when we remember the people who went to watch a game of football, as many of us do week in week out, but never came home. RIP

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[quote user="MonkeyTrousers"]Sorry, bit of a random post, but I was just reading on another thread that it''s the 20th anniversary of the Hillsborough tragedy on the 15th April.  My only memory of it is not a proud one - listening to the commentary from Villa Park on the radio with Norwich losing 1-0 to Everton in the other semi-final, and not being in the least bit interested as reports of an incident started to filter through from Hillsborough - the media not being nearly as widespread in their coverage as today.  Thinking "stop talking about it, get back to the Norwich match"... and then as the full story began to emerge, it no longer seemed to matter that we''d lost an FA Cup semi-final.  Well it did, I was gutted.  But it was just a game of football and everyone got home safely.

I''ve just browsed online and seen pictures of the Hillborough pitch carpeted in flowers from end to end, every blade of grass hidden under bouquets and scarves.  There''s something about that image that is terribly sad.  All seater stadia may not be to everyone''s taste, but if it prevents another high profile disaster like this from happening again then so be it.

[/quote]

 

Hillsborough wasn''t caused by terracing, a number of other issues caused it.

 

The ban on standing areas in the top 2 Divisions is one of the biggest injustices in this Country. If it was that dangerous to stand then why can lower Division clubs have standing areas, other Countries, all other sports and large public gatherings!

 

I was at ther other semi featuring Norwich where again the team didn''t turn up when it mattered. During the game it kept coming up on the scoreboard that the other semi had been abandoned after somethiing like 6-10 minutes without telling us why. I didn''t find out until leaving the ground after the game beings that the media and communications wern''t what they are now. After finding out what happened the Norwich defeat didn''t matter one iota.

 

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20 years ago, I was  at Villa Park for the other semi-final.

From my point of view, at the Everton Game, Norwich did a Norwich and capitulated weekly. I hate Pat Nevin and turn him off when he comes on the box. Fleck had to go to a funeral,Phelan missed the game, Norwich chewed toffee all game, with reflection, I like to think we threw that game because the players knew what was happening at Weds.

So after driving all the way in a knackered Mk 2 escort, witnessed the most dissapointing city performance i can ever remember, and news of the devastation at hillsboro capped off a shitty day.  a few years earlier ,I had been one of the 10,000 plus  city in that end, an accident  waiting  to  happen, there was serious crushing that day,  anyone else back me up here?

so it ultimately led to allseater stadiums, i hate them, my first experience of them was at coventy,FA cup a riot  ensued before and during the game,  no segregation !!! 

So,  play with a passion, we have been so let down in the past.

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Just listened to a piece this morning on Radio 4 about the anniversary and around the table were several people affected by the day, including two mothers who lost their teenage children. It was well put together and took me back to those days when football was nothing like it is now. The Liverpool fans have taken a lot of stick and have had some awful allegations thrown at them, and that was discussed in the programme today. Don''t mind telling you I was crying listening to the reporters having to do a commentary of that day and an ambulance man who had to choose who to tend to in the aftermath.

My thoughts will be with everyone connected to Liverpool on Wednesday, I can''t imagine how anyone could cope with losing their child at a football match.

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Looking back at it the other day, I came to the conclusion that it was not a case of Norwich not turning up, as I think all of the players and the crowd slowly slipped into a kind of ''why are we bothering'' trance. I remember being amazed at the lacklustre performance of the whole match in general and had no idea of the events at Hillsborough until we got back to the car - just odd snippets of info from people as we herded out of the Holte end. Finally the reality hit home - especially after seeing the pictures on the news.

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weren`t we missing fleck because his father had suddenly died ? i remember thinking at the time what piss poor timing that was

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I was only 18months old when the Hillsborough tragedy happened, so much like Ciderkkid, I have grown up with all-seater stadiums.I simply cannot comprehend something so terrible happening at a football match. It is truly tragic.I will be having a few minutes quiet reflection, at 3:06pm on Wednesday, as I am sure the rest of the footballing world will be.I sincerely hope we will be having a minute or two silence before the game today, to remember those 96, who could so easily have been our own fans; not that it is important who they supported, as mentioned before, what is important, is that these were people''s brothers, sons, fathers. I will be shocked and disgusted if we don''t have a few moments before the game to remember those lost at Hillsborough, and I will be utterly appalled if it isn''t respected.Just watched the video on the BBC site of Anfield on Saturday, remembering Hillsborough. Moved me beyond words. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/7995038.stmMy thoughts are with all those who lost someone on that tragic day. Let it never be forgotten, even by those of us too young to remember it.

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i remember that day well , it was the same day norwich played everton in the fa cup semi final .

it really took the gloss of the fa cup that year , hardly surprisingly , a really bad day for football .

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Like many others i was at Villa Park for our semi and thought the troubles were hooligan linked how wrong i was .

It was only when our game ended that the truth started to emerge Everton fans were asking the police for any information on the other match as many had family who were Reds fans , i saw some on the roadside sobing as the enormity of the events became more evident .

The journey home to Norwich was the quietist i have ever had as we listened to 5live and the numbers of dead and injured seemed to grow with every mile we travelled .

I am not a Liverpool fan in any way but it would be a  fitting tribute if they win the premier league this season .

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agreed , i remember the trip home , wasnt very nice , it really killed the day out and the fa cup that year , was a very sad day.

yep i agree would love to see liverpool win it for the fans they lost that year .

 

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Like so many others, I was at Villa Park that day. On arrival at the ground, me and some mates headed towards the top of the huge Holte End terrace. We squeezed our way in, but it really was overcrowded at the back, so we left and made our way lower down. The memories of those on here are vivid in my own mind as well, but a day or two later as I reflected on what had happened I had an overwhelming sense of "There but for the grace of God go I..."

We left the ground aware that something had happened and everyone assumed it had been down to holliganism, but on the journey home it quickly became clear that wasn''t the case. Suddenly he result of our game just didn''t matter. On arriving back at Carrow Road we headed into what is now Yellows and the TV was showing Match of the Day. Well there was no match obviously, just a report and footage of what had happened. I''ll never forget the look on Jimmy Hill''s face as we all stood there open mouthed and shocked at what had occurred.

It was the norm in those days to be packed onto a terrace, anyone remember going to West Ham in the quarter final that year? It never really occurred to me that we could be in any danger going to a football match until Hillsborough. As I said earlier, "There but for the grace of God..."

OTBC

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[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

 

Hillsborough wasn''t caused by terracing, a number of other issues caused it.

 

[/quote]

Terracing was certainly a contributing factor.

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I was at Villa Park for the Norwich v Everton semi-final that day. We only got the full extent of the tradgedy via the minibus radio on the way home, as you can imagine it was a very quiet journey home. At a personal level I had to visit the Hillsborough Memorial at Anfield and say a few words to the 96 that lost their lives that day. 

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I was still playing at the time of Hillsborough, and heard about it after the game. Watching the scenes on the news was a numbing experience, paticularly coming to terms with the thought that so many innocent people could die at a sporting event, although it wasn''t a new experience, with Heysel and Bradford having preceded it in 1985. However, the scale of the disaster, the totally inadequate response in the immediate aftermath of the realisation that people were being crushed to death and the disgraceful reporting of what was effectively simply police propaganda  as fact by the Sun put it onto a whole different level.

I really hope that Andy Burnham succeeds in getting the disclosure of the internal documents relating to the disaster so that the victim''s families can finally find closure.

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At the turnstile at Villa Park I had the pole from my flag confiscated for safety reasons.  Meanwhile, as others have said, I got merrily pushed about before the game by the sway of the crowd - and I was standing in a corner position.  A lot of innocence was lost that day, and as others have said, one of the biggest games in the clubs history came to mean nothing.

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