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Lord Flashheart

Board-In, Board-Out Observation

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Morning all. [st]What''s all this Delia-lover, board sympathiser nonsense? Many posters seem to apply the filter of "this person doesn''t think the board are solely responsible for the club''s plight" and then decide that they must be wrong. Well, firstly, I would not recognise myself as either a board-inner or a board-outter, although I do seem to get pigeon-holed as the latter quite a lot. Perhaps this is because I recognise that not everything can be reduced to an economic determinant. This tends to be the oversimplistic view that many so-called ''board-outers'' put forward on a regular basis: faced with the demise of the club, they always point to the underlying economic conditions as the explanation, i.e. the board having ''squandered'' funds which should have been invested in the team at various times. But the problem with this is a simple one: it doesn''t explain the facts! There are clubs doing well enough without a lot of funding, so the economic explanation of City''s plight clearly cannot do the job. Thus, we shouldn''t a priori stipulate that the only explanation for City''s underachievement is economic: we have to allow other factors in, but in a sensible way. A more nuanced and sophisticated understanding of what''s been happening at the club in recent years is required if we are to find ways of moving onward and upward, and this means jettisoning the board-in, board-out rubbish. [I]I''m very happy to receive criticism as long as it doesn''t get aggressive or personal. [Y]

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LF much like you I am not in any camp except the one for the betterment of NCFC.

My main contention with those wanting the board out has always been the same - unless there is a credible alternative available then most of these debates are moot.

I do actually think that Delia has the best interest of NCFC at heart but this does not mean she is best placed to serve on the board.

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[quote user="Lord Flashheart"]Morning all. [st]

What''s all this Delia-lover, board sympathiser nonsense? Many posters seem to apply the filter of "this person doesn''t think the board are solely responsible for the club''s plight" and then decide that they must be wrong. Well, firstly, I would not recognise myself as either a board-inner or a board-outter, although I do seem to get pigeon-holed as the latter quite a lot. Perhaps this is because I recognise that not everything can be reduced to an economic determinant. This tends to be the oversimplistic view that many so-called ''board-outers'' put forward on a regular basis: faced with the demise of the club, they always point to the underlying economic conditions as the explanation, i.e. the board having ''squandered'' funds which should have been invested in the team at various times. But the problem with this is a simple one: it doesn''t explain the facts! There are clubs doing well enough without a lot of funding, so the economic explanation of City''s plight clearly cannot do the job. Thus, we shouldn''t a priori stipulate that the only explanation for City''s underachievement is economic: we have to allow other factors in, but in a sensible way. A more nuanced and sophisticated understanding of what''s been happening at the club in recent years is required if we are to find ways of moving onward and upward, and this means jettisoning the board-in, board-out rubbish. [I]

I''m very happy to receive criticism as long as it doesn''t get aggressive or personal. [Y]
[/quote]

Look I hate the woman with a passion Lord, but if changes were made to the board, ie sackings of namely Doncaster and I believe Munby too, then I might, might, be able to learn, however hard that would be, to tolerate her smugness. 

But somehow blood must be spilled in the boardroon for City to prosper.

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rj,I agree, however the point of my post was to show that we shouldn''t reduce the club''s current predicament to purely economic factors. This doesn''t explain on its own why things have been so bad in recent times. We need to conceptualise the problem in a more thoughtful way. [Y]

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It must be remembered that we had the business acumen of the Turner''s on the bord for a while with the idea of sorting the club''s finances out. They were there for a fair while and things still appeared to be the same. I think the reason why other clubs prosper on a smaller budget is because they find ''cheaper'' players who become a success and then have the potential to be sold at a massive profit. In my opinion Norwich have not done this enough since relegation, Mckenzie was sold for £1m and Brown was somehow sold for a profit, apart from those two there aren''t many players where you''ve thought ''how did we manage to get so much for that player?''

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[quote user="The Walking Man"]I think the reason why other clubs prosper on a smaller budget is because they find ''cheaper'' players who become a success and then have the potential to be sold at a massive profit. In my opinion Norwich have not done this enough since relegation, Mckenzie was sold for £1m and Brown was somehow sold for a profit, apart from those two there aren''t many players where you''ve thought ''how did we manage to get so much for that player?''[/quote]This is an interesting point. It very nicely demonstrates that conceptualising the problem as one which falls solely on the board and how little cash they have doesn''t really explain why things have gotten so bad. [Y]

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[quote user="Lord Flashheart"]Wiz,

"But somehow blood must be spilled in the boardroon for City to prosper."

Why?
[/quote]

They (the board) have become stale, did they not admit at the AGM they had no idea what next to do?

Changes are needed to freshen things up imo.

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[quote user="The Walking Man"]It must be remembered that we had the business acumen of the Turner''s on the bord for a while with the idea of sorting the club''s finances out. They were there for a fair while and things still appeared to be the same. I think the reason why other clubs prosper on a smaller budget is because they find ''cheaper'' players who become a success and then have the potential to be sold at a massive profit. In my opinion Norwich have not done this enough since relegation, Mckenzie was sold for £1m and Brown was somehow sold for a profit, apart from those two there aren''t many players where you''ve thought ''how did we manage to get so much for that player?''[/quote]Actually, I''m still not sure I know how we got a 1 million profit on Etuhu.  He must have only been scouted from videos.

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[quote user="The Walking Man"]It must be remembered that we had the business acumen of the Turner''s on the bord for a while with the idea of sorting the club''s finances out. They were there for a fair while and things still appeared to be the same. I think the reason why other clubs prosper on a smaller budget is because they find ''cheaper'' players who become a success and then have the potential to be sold at a massive profit. In my opinion Norwich have not done this enough since relegation, Mckenzie was sold for £1m and Brown was somehow sold for a profit, apart from those two there aren''t many players where you''ve thought ''how did we manage to get so much for that player?''[/quote]

We have sold absolutely loads of players for a profit since relegation- Jonsson, Francis, Helveg, Ashton, Green, Mckenzie, Etuhu, Brown, Earnshaw, Shackell and Lewis.  But only three of those players were actually signed after promotion so in that respect i see your point.  The likes of Bristol C. and Swansea seem to have managed to build up a solid squad of above-average Champs players without spending too much, but without losing too many players either- i struggle to think of any player either club have lost for big money in recent years, or indeed any they are likely to lose at the end of the season. 

On the OP, i think it`s difficult to get over a complex argument in the written form without ending up with an eight paragraph long post few will finish, therefore things get simplified and come across as black and white leading to polerization.

We constantly hear that we can`t compete with those clubs with parachute payments, yet we were basically told we couldn`t compete (and we didn`t....) even when we had them, and i think this is the root of the anger some supporters feel.  If you don`t have drive, ambition and a competitive ethos coming from the top of the club you are pretty much doomed imo. 

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[quote user="The Walking Man"]It must be remembered that we had the business acumen of the Turner''s on the bord for a while with the idea of sorting the club''s finances out. They were there for a fair while and things still appeared to be the same. I think the reason why other clubs prosper on a smaller budget is because they find ''cheaper'' players who become a success and then have the potential to be sold at a massive profit. In my opinion Norwich have not done this enough since relegation, Mckenzie was sold for £1m and Brown was somehow sold for a profit, apart from those two there aren''t many players where you''ve thought ''how did we manage to get so much for that player?''[/quote]

Totally agree. The Norwich way has always been to gradually improve the squad by developing players, whether they be home grown or bought cheaply. Some are sold for profit, some stay put, but gradually the team and the squad improve individually and collectively.

The last two managers in particular have abandoned these principles and it has hurt us deeply.

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[quote user="Lord Flashheart"]Morning all. [st]


I''m very happy to receive criticism as long as it doesn''t get aggressive or personal. [Y]
[/quote]

Tough luck, now prepare for a slap you Twunt... [;)]

Great post Flash. Unarguable logic. The Board In/Board Out bananas is ridiculously divisive and totally irresolvable unless a takeover bid is lodged anyway. A new way forward is needed for the debate to have life, and ironically I think most of the posters on here are actually of similar mind. The numpty extremists are the ones who polarise the subject and render debate worthless.

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Quite frankly, board in/board out is not really the issue.

Simply put we need an NCFC board with an inspiring, achievable vision together with a confident and expansive approach to leadership. No more little Norwich.

If this board can deliver such an approach then fine, if not they should step aside. 

As a technical note, I think your Lordship is confusing the term ''economic'' with ''financial'' - a small but nevertheless important detail.

Have this board lucked out at last with Team Gunn? Maybe. Let''s certainly hope so. But will they have the gumption to provide the complementary leadership required from the top? Time will tell.

We live in interesting times.

One love.

OTBC

 

 

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[quote user="rjwc22"]

LF much like you I am not in any camp except the one for the betterment of NCFC.

My main contention with those wanting the board out has always been the same - unless there is a credible alternative available then most of these debates are moot.

I do actually think that Delia has the best interest of NCFC at heart but this does not mean she is best placed to serve on the board.

[/quote]

So the owner of the business is not qualified to sit on the Board that runs it???

That is a fairly radical proposal

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[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="Lord Flashheart"]Wiz,

"But somehow blood must be spilled in the boardroon for City to prosper."

Why?
[/quote]

They (the board) have become stale, did they not admit at the AGM they had no idea what next to do?

Changes are needed to freshen things up imo.

[/quote]

There are no need for changes to the Board. Neil Doncaster is a good communicator and few who read this Message Board realise the enomous amount of work he gets through during the course of a day. Running all the aspects of the Club from seeing that the Ground is as near filed to capacity as possible to signing the contracts for new players is an enormous job and he is poorly paid for the position that he fills. Roger Munby is a fine Chairman courteous and polite and a fine host to the big Wigs of other Clubs and to sponsors and City notables. I find no fault in him. What I do believe is necessary is  three or four extra Board Members. I would suggest an "ideas man", a "fans man", a "young man''s, man" and a "raise some money woman". These extra Directors would not had the power that Delia or Michael have but they should contribute to the well being of the Club.

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Well Gazza I went to Birmingham, had a splendid time, got excited. thought their team is never going to stay up in the Premier if they get there, thought Gunny''s team did a good job. Pleased he is the Manager and feel that we have more than a fair chance of staying up, up, up as we all sang. I have met all the Board on more than one occassion. They all seem  decent people who are trying there best for Club and City. We all have some failings but there is no reason for the "hate" that Wiz expresses. The drugs are 75 mg of asprin and 10 mg Ramipril by the way. Means the only chance I have for playing for England is at croquet but there is a fair bit of skill in that game too!!

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[quote user="Bobert"]Well Gazza I went to Birmingham, had a splendid time, got excited. thought their team is never going to stay up in the Premier if they get there, thought Gunny''s team did a good job. Pleased he is the Manager and feel that we have more than a fair chance of staying up, up, up as we all sang. I have met all the Board on more than one occassion. They all seem  decent people who are trying there best for Club and City. We all have some failings but there is no reason for the "hate" that Wiz expresses. The drugs are 75 mg of asprin and 10 mg Ramipril by the way. Means the only chance I have for playing for England is at croquet but there is a fair bit of skill in that game too!![/quote]

Well-meaning amateurs are now of the past Bobert, I''m afraid. And that is a key problem of ours in this modern world.

But your cocktail is intoxicating. I just wish I was there to be able to indulge!

OTBC

 

 

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[quote user="Bobert"][quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="Lord Flashheart"]Wiz,

"But somehow blood must be spilled in the boardroon for City to prosper."

Why?
[/quote]

They (the board) have become stale, did they not admit at the AGM they had no idea what next to do?

Changes are needed to freshen things up imo.

[/quote]

There are no need for changes to the Board. Neil Doncaster is a good communicator and few who read this Message Board realise the enomous amount of work he gets through during the course of a day. Running all the aspects of the Club from seeing that the Ground is as near filed to capacity as possible to signing the contracts for new players is an enormous job and he is poorly paid for the position that he fills. Roger Munby is a fine Chairman courteous and polite and a fine host to the big Wigs of other Clubs and to sponsors and City notables. I find no fault in him. What I do believe is necessary is  three or four extra Board Members. I would suggest an "ideas man", a "fans man", a "young man''s, man" and a "raise some money woman". These extra Directors would not had the power that Delia or Michael have but they should contribute to the well being of the Club.

[/quote]

Well said Sir. And when the inevitable responses come - Nil carber undum illegit!

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