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Match Day Pie

Fozzie v The Fans: A serious debate

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We are constantly telling ourselves (and being told by the club when the season ticket renewal wheels round again) what great fans we are, but the treatment of Mark Fotheringham by some fans seems to have been nothing but disgraceful.

The man may not have lived up to expectations but he clearly has a passion for the club, and to hear and see him abused at the ground in the way that he has is really quite shocking and something we should be ashamed of.

Now it has come to a point where he can''t play for us again because of these fans who give him terrible, personal abuse.

One ''fan'' had particular fun during half time shouting dreadful things at Fotheringham as he was warming up to come on against Bristol City. We''d already gone a man down - how was this supposed to encourage him?

Has it come to this? Our club captain has been ousted from because some fans can''t cope with him simply not being good enough? Does he really deserve some of the trash thrown his way?

What happened to ''one for all and all for one'', especially considering where we are in the league.

We may be congratulating ourselves on turning up every week but it''s a shameful day when our captain can''t play for the club because of some idiots who get a perverted joy from making his life a misery.

None of us should count this as a particularly proud day in NCFC''s history.

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[quote user="Match Day Pie"]We are constantly telling ourselves (and being told by the club when the season ticket renewal wheels round again) what great fans we are, but the treatment of Mark Fotheringham by some fans seems to have been nothing but disgraceful. The man may not have lived up to expectations but he clearly has a passion for the club, and to hear and see him abused at the ground in the way that he has is really quite shocking and something we should be ashamed of. Now it has come to a point where he can''t play for us again because of these fans who give him terrible, personal abuse. One ''fan'' had particular fun during half time shouting dreadful things at Fotheringham as he was warming up to come on against Bristol City. We''d already gone a man down - how was this supposed to encourage him? Has it come to this? Our club captain has been ousted from because some fans can''t cope with him simply not being good enough? Does he really deserve some of the trash thrown his way? What happened to ''one for all and all for one'', especially considering where we are in the league. We may be congratulating ourselves on turning up every week but it''s a shameful day when our captain can''t play for the club because of some idiots who get a perverted joy from making his life a misery. None of us should count this as a particularly proud day in NCFC''s history.[/quote]Am afraid some fans have to have one particular player who they must verbally abuse, not long ago it was Docherty. They will no doubt find some other player to vent their frustrations on before the season is out. This is not peculiar to our club but am afraid some people are just like that.

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I felt sorry for Fozzy to some extent, but the guy is supposed to be our leader, yet he has thrown in the towel. Yes, he''s had abuse, some of it undeserved, but that''s part of being a professional sportsman. A true captain would say "I''m going to prove you bastards wrong", not run away and hide and then come out with crap about "sacrificing " himself for the greater good. The sooner he goes, the better.

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Guy Gibson''s dog. - Fozzy should grow a pair.  He''s had nowhere near as much grief as Beckham has had,  Beckham didn''t run away and cry.

-------

So that makes it ok then?

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[quote user="Beauseant"]

I felt sorry for Fozzy to some extent, but the guy is supposed to be our leader, yet he has thrown in the towel. Yes, he''s had abuse, some of it undeserved, but that''s part of being a professional sportsman. A true captain would say "I''m going to prove you bastards wrong", not run away and hide and then come out with crap about "sacrificing " himself for the greater good. The sooner he goes, the better.

[/quote]Would agree with that. It''s the initial constant abusing of one player that I regard as pathetic.

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On Monday...

Gunn told BBC Radio Norfolk: "I was disappointed with his reaction as captain of the club.  I can understand his reaction because of the frustrations of the crowd, but you need to be big enough to take it," Gunn said.  We need people in the team who are positive, who are focused on the job ahead, who are committed to the club."

Very different from Gunny''s comments in the paper today.

 

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Sorry - but IMO the man has only himself to blame for his present position. Yes he was very unfortunate ever to be promoted to captain by Roeder - big mistake because he''s just not up to the job. Ridiculous choice. And a big part of that is that his football ability is so poor - must have been difficult for the rest of the team to respect him. I was appalled when Gunn stuck with him (surely Doc, Clingan and Drury were better contenders?) but he did and for several matches. But if the manager decides he has to come off, a captain has absoutely no right to storm off as he did regardless of any abuse the fans are dishing out. How much better if he''d put his arm up to the crowd in recognition that his contribution had been a bit wanting? A manager must have the right to make substitutions as he thinks fit - and all players - especially the captain, must accept that. Especially when the manager has put his job on the line and stuck with you.These players are paid huge sums and we fans are charged good money to pay for them. Fans do have a right to make their feelings known. Fotheringham came in with Lappin and I always thought there was a mile between them in ability - it must be evident to all now that there is at least a huge difference in attitude and application.. I suspect Gunn & Crook still hope someone will come in for him - hence perhaps the need to hint at reasons other than ability for his effective dismissal from the team.

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“As things stand, it is unlikely Mark will be at the club next season. He is out of contract at the end of the season and is probably one of our better paid players, so it would be difficult for the club to match that contract again in the current climate. I felt it was only fair that he knew that now rather than later.”

Suggests that Fozzy''s impending departure isn''t just a tactical one...

 

 

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[quote user="Guy Gibsons dog"]Fozzy should grow a pair.  He''s had nowhere near as much grief as Beckham has had,  Beckham didn''t run away and cry. 
[/quote]

Don''t remember Beckham getting it from his own fans, do you?

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Was I the only one who saw Clingan and other players furiously remonstrating with Fozzy after his pathetic effort which led to the first Coventry goal?  They were livid.  We know that there was a team talk after the game.  It is probably not just the fans who felt let down.

Plus Fozzy plays like someone 10 years older trying to conserve energy.  That must be frustrating for eevryone.  Still, I have said elsewhere that the best single performance last season for me was Fozzy against Southampton when he was electric.  He has ability.  Shame he can''t or won''t use it.

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My view is that if somebody plays well, shows good attitude and passion then there is no problem.  Consistantly playing in this manner even earns that player the odd poor game once in a while, but Fozzy has been consistantly poor and to be fair Gunn should have seen this and perhaps rested him.Had he done so, it''s unlikely the situation would have got to the stage where the fans (rightly or wrongly) felt the need to cheer him off and subsequently he would still be a squad player to cover injuries - which I personally feel is his best role at the moment.

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It wasn''t his lack of ability that made me dislike him - it was his lack of effort. Add to that the arrogance of him believing he was good - arrogant, lasy and cr@p is a dangerous combination....

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“It is an awkward atmosphere to play in and I have total sympathy for him. There is a problem, unfortunately, with a minority of fans and it does affect other people. The small pockets of dissent sound louder on occasions.

It sounded like alot more than a minority at the City v Coventry game, especially when Fozzy was substituted.  Passion is not enough to compensate for poor performances.

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[quote user="Norfolk n Good"]It wasn''t his lack of ability that made me dislike him - it was his lack of effort. Add to that the arrogance of him believing he was good - arrogant, lasy and cr@p is a dangerous combination....[/quote]

Thank you for writing this N&G..........save me the effort!

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[quote user="Norfolk n Good"]It wasn''t his lack of ability that made me dislike him - it was his lack of effort. Add to that the arrogance of him believing he was good - arrogant, lasy and cr@p is a dangerous combination....[/quote]

Bingo.

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Most people are missing the point - or proving it. Why should he get such terrible abuse (much worse than we''ve seen against other players) just for being a let down? It''s not like he slagged anyone off, he just simply couldn''t cut it. To sit there and listen to some fans shouting ''f*ck off Fozzie you c*nt'' game in, game out, seems way over the top.

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[quote user="Babyface"]My view is that if somebody plays well, shows good attitude and passion then there is no problem.  Consistantly playing in this manner even earns that player the odd poor game once in a while, but Fozzy has been consistantly poor and to be fair Gunn should have seen this and perhaps rested him.

Had he done so, it''s unlikely the situation would have got to the stage where the fans (rightly or wrongly) felt the need to cheer him off and subsequently he would still be a squad player to cover injuries - which I personally feel is his best role at the moment.

[/quote]

Some of our so-called loyal fans have a lot to answer for.  They are the ones who take the view "I''ve paid for my ticket so that entitles me to dish out personal abuse whenever I feel like it".  No it doesn''t.  You can''t justify it so don''t even try. 

Rumour has it that the Player of the Month award has been scrapped and is being replaced by Scapegoat of the Month . . . [:S]

 

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[quote user="Mook"]

[quote user="Guy Gibsons dog"]Fozzy should grow a pair.  He''s had nowhere near as much grief as Beckham has had,  Beckham didn''t run away and cry.  [/quote]

Don''t remember Beckham getting it from his own fans, do you?

[/quote]Oh Yes, I remember Beckham getting personal abuse after England games regarding his family. 

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[quote user="Mook"]

[quote user="Guy Gibsons dog"]Fozzy should grow a pair.  He''s had nowhere near as much grief as Beckham has had,  Beckham didn''t run away and cry. 
[/quote]

Don''t remember Beckham getting it from his own fans, do you?

[/quote]

You''re having a laugh right? Beckham got it non-stop from France ''98 right up until scoring that free-kick against Greece.

Back onto the topic in hand though and it''s a great post. Wonderful to see some reasoned debate still exists on this board. My personal opinion is that while nobody deserves abuse for doing their job, footballers are paid a great deal of money and it''s part and parcel of the terrority. The very reason that footballers get paid so much money is that they work in a results-driven industry where every second of their performance is analysed and noted. If you''re working in an office, you can slack off for half a day but if you''re playing in front of 25,000, you can''t. Fotheringham''s performances did not warrant his bumper pay-packet and while he is better than a lot of the recent rubbish we''ve seen in midfield over the past few seasons, I am very happy he''s off.

I can, however, see your point Mr Pie. It doesn''t excuse people yelling abuse at him or waiting eagerly for his first mistake. However Fozzy himself is no real saint in this. He signed for a one-year contract and then when it came to renew, he only ever wanted another one-year contract. This does not really look like the actions of someone whose heart is even remotely in the club; biding his time and hoping for a better offer. While there have been murmers coming out of Lee Croft about signing a contract - which he probably won''t IMHO - there has been nothing at all from Fozzy which speaks volumes.

Basically I''m not defending people who yell naughty words at their own players; it''s certainly something I have never done and probably will never do. However Fozzy has played poorly, his heart does not appear to be in it and this is backed up by Gunn and finally, over the two years he''s been with us, he''s pocketed a tidy sum (probably something like £300k) before he goes to a Preston or back Up North

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Its not personal against the player. Fozzy seems a decent lad and people are not abusing him. People are jeering the manager''s decision to keep playing him when its clear he''s not up to it and should not be picked. It seems to be the only way that certain of our managers will get the message and make a change that all in the stadium bar them are able to see.

 

It was the same with Holt and Flem towards the end. Norwich City legends and great guys but were picked and played for 6 months too long. Not their fault they are hardly likely to say "actually boss i''m a bit past it and am struggling" but Worthington should have made that decision for them. When he didn''t and persisted with them for far too long the fans had little option but to make their feelings known.

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Despite what Gunny has said, do people really think that Fozzy has been axed simply because of some stick from the fans?  Gunn''s comments on Monday suggested that wasn''t the case and I think what he said in the paper today is more a smokescreen.  Fozzy did get some barbed comments his way, but the fact he wasn''t on the bench on Tues, that we attempted to offload him very quickly and also removed the captaincy suggests its a bit more than that.  I suspect the "personal sacrifice" comment was made to keep some of Fotheringham''s dignity intact.

 

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Ashamed? Hell no! I said my piece on Saturday (well probably more than a piece) - but Fozzy was, has and is dire....I''m just shocked that us fans have managed to achieve a postive outcome.

I give credit were it''s due, applude and praise but I will also get frustrated when not 1 or 2 or 3 but 4 so called clearances by Fozzy inside our area in the first half go to a Coventry player lurking just outside/inside the box (1 of which = Coventry goal no 1)! He might as well have worn sky blue that game.

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Fozzy acted like a petulant child by storming off down the tunnel so how anyone can stick up for him is beyond me, infact I find it PATHETIC! He has been terrible this season & doesn''t look like he gives 2 hoots when on the field. If he can''t handle a little bit of jeering then he can do us a favour & bugger off & we''ll spend his huge wages on someone who actually has a pair!

What has this country come to when you are not allowed to voice your opinion for fear of upsetting someone. Especially someone who more than likely gets paid more in a month than I do in a year!

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[quote user="Match Day Pie"]Most people are missing the point - or proving it. Why should he get such terrible abuse (much worse than we''ve seen against other players) just for being a let down? It''s not like he slagged anyone off, he just simply couldn''t cut it. To sit there and listen to some fans shouting ''f*ck off Fozzie you c*nt'' game in, game out, seems way over the top.[/quote]

Because he was crap and should never of been captain or even on the pitch! I''m chuffed to bits that he will probably never play for us again. We are the paying customers and we can say what we like when we like!! When you are earning thousands of pounds a week, you should make sure you bloody earn it! What i do find strange is, why a few people like yourself are feeling sorry for him? Get some balls for god sake!!!

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[quote user="Felixfan"]It''s all part of the cut and thrust of football. Get over it.[/quote]I think Fozzy was more a ''cut'' than a ''thrust''.

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[quote user="Chunky Norwich"][quote user="Mook"]

[quote user="Guy Gibsons dog"]Fozzy should grow a pair.  He''s had nowhere near as much grief as Beckham has had,  Beckham didn''t run away and cry. 
[/quote]

Don''t remember Beckham getting it from his own fans, do you?

[/quote]

You''re having a laugh right? Beckham got it non-stop from France ''98 right up until scoring that free-kick against Greece.

[/quote]

From his own fans? No he didn''t! In fact, they won the treble the next season with Beckham a massive part of the team, sure you got your facts straight?

I seem to recall, even directly after the world cup, him being a hero to Utd fans even though being despised everywhere else - particularly Wet Sham.

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