Feeling Sad For Nigel Boy

[YankeeCanary 0]

Wizard, my friend, I for one am overlooking nothing and personally believe ( like many others I''m sure ) that the deal for Greeno has already been done. I am sure the management at NCFC are far ahead of us speculators on here, although of course, we will pretend that they''re not so that we can have our fun.

With respect to how much money will be available for acqisitions, I''m sure management has that in hand too although, whatever our course of acquisition, there are no guarantees. I could not help but ponder this last Saturday when watching the Birmingham/Manchester United game. At one point I thought United had to have something approaching 50 million pounds worth of strikers on the pitch at the same time and they still could not put a goal past Birmingham, a team, which at the moment, is desperately fighting in the same bracket as we are.

I further though of another struggler, Southampton, who brought Crouch in as a backup for Beattie, only to see both of them out of commission for a period of time.

Investing in a football club is a perilous business. When you are managing a football club it is even more perilous, which is why, despite our good fun on this message board, the real decisions are left to the professionals.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Wizard, my friend, I for one am overlooking nothing and personally believe ( like many others I''m sure ) that the deal for Greeno has already been done. I am sure the management at NCFC are far ahead ...[/quote]

YC my dear friend, whilst as usual, you make some thought provoking comments, you do I believe like many, slightly under estimate one thing ie. Nigel Worthington!.

Its long been my opinion that ''Old Fergie Boy'', has gone slightly potty!!. His tactics/transfers in and out, would seem to back me up on this. I also believe that Steve Bruce has a hidden agenda, known only to him!. 

Neither of those two are what I call stable, whereas our ''Nigel Boy'' is ''Mr Stability'' personified!.

I just wish the board had the same faith in him as the City fans and I have, and backed it with real cash in January!.

Ho Hum!.

[FatMan Fat 0]

Yankee Canary   -the point of your post is what exactly? If it was a continuation of your ongoing need to be invidious then you are a sad case indeed - other than that I cannot see the need of its content.  I would seek help before your resentment eats you up

[YankeeCanary 0]

FatMan, I am assuming the post you are referring to is where I pointed out that your post was vague. I am sorry that you see me as offensive for pointing that out but, may I suggest you are being a little thin-skinned. If you could allow yourself to put emotion to one side and re-read your post, you will see that what I stated was factual. I am interested in your opinion as to what level of investment you think the club needs to undertake in January in order to strive for Premiership survival. You say a lot of things but, without being clear, you really say nothing.

[FatMan Fat 0]

Yankee - my post is perfectly clear to me, and it would seem from some of the other posters, to other people as well. Your post serves no other purpose than to be abrasive - seems like you have a problem that you should seek help on.

[YankeeCanary 0]

FatMan, the insults are coming from you, not me. I do what I always do on this board, which is speak to the content from others in a factual manner. Pointed, I agree, but factually. We will have to agree to disagree without any of us being aware of how much money you think Norwich should be prepared to spend in January in order to survive.

[Mello Yello 2,273]

Am I being somewhat presumptuous, that Fatman & Yankee will not be sending each other Christmas cards then?

"Second''s out, round three!" And no hitting below the belt.....: laugh:

[FatMan Fat 0]

What an egoist you are, Yankee You make comments about being factual but state no facts - in fact your comments are very self opinionated, in my opinion As the factual person that you claim to be perhaps you will enlighten us all on how much you think NCFC need to invest?

Oh, that wouldn''t be possible would it, because it would just be an opinion.  Ho hum

[YankeeCanary 0]

Well, FatMan, let’s see if I’ve understood your insults to date.

1. I’m invidious
2. I’m a sad case
3. I need to seek help before my resentment eats me up
4. I’m abrasive
5. I’m an egoist
6. I’m very self-opinionated

Well, I’m glad I don’t call you names. I shudder to think what the response might be. Other readers can judge for themselves who is seeking to clarify opinion and who is hiding behind insults. Such responses from you apparently are triggered by my asking you to clarify, from your strongly worded post, what level of investment you think is required to ensure our club survives in the Premiership. It was your point, not mine. While I too would like us to survive (as I believe all of us do), I don’t think it will be a terrible tragedy to go down. I believe the management at NCFC is more than competent at knowing what action is in the overall best interests of the club. You have made it clear in the past that you have a higher opinion of your management skills versus what exists at Carrow Road. I will always take to task anyone who implies or presumes such a thing because we have a good group of people steering the club.

[FatMan Fat 0]

Tut, tut, Yankee, there you go again rattling on about the past - I think that is where your resentment comes from.  A dangerous thing resentment, it can eat you away - you must be very slim by now

And you haven''t understood any of my "insults" - never mind, I am sure you will fire off another meaningless diatribe.

Personally, I have better things to do - in the real world

 

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

Well, I was hoping for an intelligent response but, judging by your picture, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a ......

 

[gazzathegreat 0]

[quote]Am I being somewhat presumptuous, that Fatman & Yankee will not be sending each other Christmas cards then? "Second''s out, round three!" And no hitting below the belt.....: laugh:[/quote]

mello

i won''t be sending a card to mr chase or mr megson, everyone on here might get one if..... pete can come up with some corporate pink un special card we can all send to each other

otherwise, those with email addresses will get one from me!! 

[StevenageFan 0]

the funniest thing in all this is that Fatman was talking to me when Yankee decided to launch at attack not only at him, but me as well!!!

Although I often agree with a lot of the points you make Yankee  (by the way I may not have posted much, but visit every day), sometimes you just come across pretty arrogant.

I totally agree that the management in place is far more qualified than any poster on here to make the right decision, just didn''t need all the fluffy words in between your points mate.

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

Stevenage Fan, you are not the only one that thinks I come across in an arrogant manner so I will clearly not dispute your point. However, please, in the interest of being fair, take another look at what I said when I first challenged the point being made by FatMan. The point I opened with directed to you was not an attack. It was clearly questioning why you felt the need to open your response to FatMan by saying you agreed with him. That’s not an "attack".

Everything you had said in your previous postings suggest that you do not agree with the "big spend" approach. You acknowledge that by stating that you and I are in the same camp. You know, there is a big gap between using a) personal insults, b) challenging a poster and c) being too polite and agreeing when one clearly does not agree. I personally subscribe to the (b) approach when I have a differing point of view. Don’t pussyfoot around if you disagree with someone... just tell them.

With respect to all my "fluffy words" in between the points, please take a look at the length of your posts on this particular thread. I personally enjoy them, but if you do not there is no requirement to read similar input from me.

Finally, I had to smile when I read your input suggesting that I was "poking my nose in" when you and FatMan were having a friendly exchange. If we had to remove all comments from this message board when posters are "poking their nose in" then 90% of the board content would disappear.

[NavMan 0]

Must agree with you Yankee.  Now come on Stevenage Fan less of this arguing and throwing the toys out of the cot.  We are all Norwich fans at heart and just because you post crap postings does not mean Yankee is wrong (Hee Hee).

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Stevenage Fan, you are not the only one that thinks I come across in an arrogant manner so I will clearly not dispute your point. However, please, in the interest of being fair, take another look at w...[/quote]

I have been quite enthralled by the public spat between YC and Fat Man Fat!.

Now, the old and very wise wiz, does not normally take sides in a cat fight, OK, old tom cats fight, but on this occasion I will. If only in a vain effort to get this bloody thread back on track!.

Its not that I believe old YC is arrogant, far from it in fact. Bloody minded and likes the last word maybe, but not arrogant!. But on this issue, I must stand with Fat Man Fat, at least he realises what the solution MUST be, come January, SPEND!.

Now before old YC asks me, I''ll pass on this information to him, or indeed anyone else come to that, that I believe a sum of £3.5 million to be an absolute minimum to start with.

I would prefer a ''ball park'' figure of £6 million, but our board are not, and never were that brave, thats the figure I believe, that would in the least give ''Nigel Boy'', a decent fighting chance of survival.

I realise of course that this money would guarantee nowt!. But at least we''d go down, all guns a blazing. Knowing the board tried everything possible to retain our hard fought new status.

I shall not be building up my hopes too much!. 

[FatMan Fat 0]

I almost feel sorry for you Yankee regarding the post about myself and ducks.....thankfully it''s only almost though

You see, as ever, you have totally missed the point - the duck is a decoy duck and you fell for it

[StevenageFan 0]

NavMan - thanks for the back up cous

YC -

Wiz - I agree, sorry YC

FatMan - decoy duck quality

[a1canary 0]

Woah, i left this one behind long ago but it keeps resurrecting itself! And with good reason, looking back over it! I don''t think there''s much more to say on either sides of the arguements, well made by all.

And i feel encouraged to resurrect it again by adding my hearty (and unusual) agreement to the wizard''s judgements on Mr Ferguson and co! And here are mine.

Ferguson has gone slightly potty wiz says. Slightly!! He has lived most of his life walking along that fine line between fieryness and outright insanity and he has long since past the point where he stumbles across it with impunity. Not so long ago, after one of his many fallings out with the press, they decided to have a go back and told in articles of his regular and legendary temper tantrums at press conferences that would make Ozzy Osbourne sound like a priest! He long ago bought the stories of his own legend and believes he is football royalty and should get everthing he wants, how he wants it, when he wants it.

Football is littered with characters like him, Best, Gazza, Hoddle... The personalities may be different but they all have the same thing in common - football obsession, an unimaginable big headedness that leads them to believe they are ALWAYS right, and a desire to get what they want regardless.  If Hoddle (who i think was actually even MORE insane but in a different way) stays out of football, he may just be in time to save himself! But Furguson is going the same way as the rest of them if he doesn''t stop soon. Deciding not to retire in 2002 may turn out to be the biggest mistake of his career as he desperately fights to return man utd to something like the level they were at in 1999 so he can get out in a blaze of glory. It won''t happen. The opposition in Europe is tougher than ever with regular surprise packages like Porto appearing, and the days of the four big guns (Bayern, Real, Barca and Man U) fighting it out in the semis of the European Cup are long gone.

Bobby Robson has opened up a path in football management for the likes of Ferguson to tread and it will end the same way for most of them. Mark my words, when the time comes, Furguson will go ungracefully into the night in a crimson faced flurry of expletives and spit.  

And Bruce? A Ferguson clone, so similar to him it''s uncanny and on a path so inveitably leading to Old Trafford only a fool would bet against him succeeding the red faced one.

Worthy? What sets him, and the likes of Martin O''Neill, Bobby Robson and Alan Curbishley apart is just what wiz says. Stability. In the mind. They have their feet on the ground which keeps them in touch with and relevant to the people around them. I want Curbishley and O''Neill to succeed at the same level Ferguson has to show that it can be done with dignity and without arrogance. They deserve the chance to succeed on bigger stages than they are on now and in time so will Worthy. But not before he has taken the yellow and green a little further. A lot further!

 

p.s.i don''t quite know what''s happened here - nothing to do with the post really, just what came out of the keyboard at a given moment!

[gazzathegreat 0]

excellent post though A1, agree with you on your points about fergie, he really should have learnt to play that piano!!  Taking your points about europe in general, yes, man u have had their day and are way behind arsenal now, and will be for a long time. If arsenal can''t win the european championship, man u certainly won''t. 

It would be nice to see Mr O''Neill win something big, shame it wasn''t to be with us.  Also Curbishley still battles away against the odds, but the man i really admire in the prem is Sam Allardyce, what he has done at Bolton is superb, given their attendances and the limited cash he has had compared to the big 4 or 5

I hope in time worthy will be in that league, however, we have to stay up here for about three years without going down to achieve that - i don''t know whether we have the capacity on and off the pitch for that at present though

 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Woah, i left this one behind long ago but it keeps resurrecting itself! And with good reason, looking back over it! I don''t think there''s much more to say on either sides of the arguements, well made ...[/quote]

A superb reply A1, I wish I had thought of it!. I find I agree with 98% of what you say, well, it would''nt be me if I''d agreed 100%, now would it?.

No, the only thing I would take issue with you, is that you seem to think that ''Nigel Boy'' will be with us for quite some time. Trust me when I say, I sincerely hope your correct on this my friend!. But I''m not as confident as you I''m afraid.

Most of us would agree that Nigel is a bloody good manager, yes?. But every talented boss will reach a point, when they become frustrated at the ''make do'' policy, they find themselves working under. ie ''Nigel Boy'' at the moment!.   

It must affect his ability to manage at times, and harms his reputation to boot!.

I fear, there will come a time, SOON, when other Premiership team''s chairman, will sit up and take notice of this too, if they have''nt already!, and make our Nigel an offer that he''d be a fool to turn down!.

Thats the greatest danger to the team this year I believe, and it will be our damn spineless boards fault, if that nightmare scenario should come true.

Nigel needs their backing now, not later, and preferably before some other ''richer'' club nips in and gives it to him!.

[Gentleman Jim 0]

[quote]A superb reply A1, I wish I had thought of it!. I find I agree with 98% of what you say, well, it would''nt be me if I''d agreed 100%, now would it?. No, the only thing I would take issue with yo...[/quote]

Hey Wiz, 

 On page two of this everlasting thread ,(so long ago), you will see I said exactly the same as you are now saying.

I must say that I did not express myself so eloquently as yourself but nevertheless we are of the same mind, ( perhaps thats why we are the twin strikers in the posters XI).

Nigel will get his way ! He''s in a good bargaining position so leave it to him !

If I''m wrong and he or the board fluffs it, (heaven forbid), then we will have lots of material to get our keyboards rattling well into next year.

[a1canary 0]

I’m not sure Wiz. I don''t think i meant that he would stay around for a lot longer wiz but certainly this season and maybe even one more.

It all depends on what happens to us of course - to NCFC in the next 6 months. Worthy''s career hinges on it. But I genuinely believe that he would like to notch up some major achievements, preferably with us, so he can move forward with a good foundation. At the moment, his only achievement is promotion. No inconsiderable one but one that ranks him (in achievements) no higher than dave bassett!

If he keeps us in the prem this season his stock will obviously rise but still not enough to get him a top top job. Maybe Birmingham, or Southampton or Fulham but will that really be a big step forward if he is still in the prem with us?

No, if he wants one of the big jobs, and we all know that ultimately he does, he needs to keep us up for at least two seasons and preferably in some style rather than bloodied and bruised in 17^th come May.

If we go down, then all bets are off – all of the above mentioned teams and more will look appealing. As we all know, now we’ve tasted it, we don’t want to leave it. We won’t have a choice if we go down, he will, and then you will definitely be right!

[YankeeCanary 0]

I thought I was finished with this thread but I cannot let these last remarks regarding Nigel go by without comment. As I have been very clear on, I am a big supporter of Nigel AND the Board. However, the whole thrust of this thread is wrong, wrong, wrong. Here are the reasons why:

1. Nigel Worthington has done a good job since he took over as manager, but not a superb job. There were many times last season where Nigel’s approach was way too cautious. Many posters on this forum suggested changes in approach. Eventually, Nigel went in the direction of the suggestions on this message board and things improved. I am not saying he did it because of our suggestions but what it shows is his feel to change what was necessary was obvious to others before it was to Nigel.
2. Wizard suggests the restraints placed on Nigel by the Board must affect his ability to manage. The correct synopsis is that it tests his ability to manage. That’s what it’s all about. Most managers in the Premiership would wish they had Wizard in their corner dumping on their respective Boards. The fact of the matter is that with the money Nigel has already spent he has under utilized the players HE acquired. If each of us would like to buy caviar but can only afford a piece of cod, there is no point in buying the cod unless we intend to eat it.
3. Nigel has only got nine Premiership games under his belt so far. He has lots of opportunity to improve and to learn, and my opinion is he will, given time. I say there is learning to be done beyond this season whether he is managing in the Premiership or the lower division.
4. If we are relegated bigger clubs will not be motivated to line up for Nigel Worthington. He understands that. A1Canary is right. A couple of seasons in the Premiership with clear improvement being made is what will provide "worthy" credentials.
5. Finally, Nigel understands better than any of us what he has to work with financially at Norwich City. He knew it before he became manager and he knows it now. He has to play the good cop versus the bad cop of the Board, not only to apply negotiating pressure in the marketplace but also to manage demands of existing players. It goes with the territory. To all observers it has to appear that the manager is pushing for more than the Board. What kind of a manager would he appear to be if it were the other way around.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Hey Wiz, On page two of this everlasting thread ,(so long ago), you will see I said exactly the same as you are now saying. I must say that I did not express myself so eloquently as yourself but...[/quote]

As you so rightly said Jim, perhaps we are indeed kindred spirits!. Well, Gorleston is so very close to my address, that you almost qualify to be consider an honoury Suffolk person!.

But how on earth I made it up front in the posters X1 is quite beyond me?. I would have thought that with all my Hex''s floating about the cosmos last season, and even more so this season, at the heart of defence would have been a more suitable position for me!.

Mind you, as some of my posts, and indeed posters themselves will no doubt testify, I can at times score a few ogs!.

A1: Good points from you once again my friend, but I can''t see ''Nigel Boy'' doing it ''in style'', until he is giving the financial support that his undoubted talents cry out for.

And that takes us right back to page 1 of this thread, yes?.

[Weve (no longer) Got Angus 0]

but think about it how can the board answr his problems with cash if they actually dont have any

[Bury Yellow 2]

What a great thread..... still!

Being a young(sic) executive I find I am away for most week days. Imagine the joy to come back and find time to go on my favourite site and see the thread continuing.

Wizzo? I agree with your musical appreciations I would add Saxon to my musical delights. Oh what a give away!!  I''m sure we were blood brothers in a previous life.

Guess how old Iam? errrr 66? B....off I''m 95!

Nurse? Get the screens and... put your clothes on!!

Back to more serious matters - I would just add that Yankee Canary stands out from all other posters on this subject in that he obviously does not attend games. Now, I love to read all supporters points of view but I really don''t think I could put across such strong opinions when I have''nt actually experienced NCFC ''live'' for a long time.

Surely Mr Yankee you should pre-empt all your opinions by ''I know I haven''t been to a game for several hundred years but here''s my opinion for what it''s worth.''

Don''t get me wrong, I thinks it''s fantastic we have support from all over the world but those who live many miles from FCR should temper their opinions.

''Come on Mr Yellow - time for bed and you''re hot chocolate''.

Coming Nursie

''I going to read a new book to you tonight - it''s called ''Positive Thinking and How I Achieved It'' by a Mr Neil Doncaster.''

Oh Joy!!!

Night night everybody - Got to get up early tomorrow - Damn early kick off - Got to get to the Gunn Club - must hear Waller''s opinions. Now don''t start me off on that one!!!

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]What a great thread..... still! Being a young(sic) executive I find I am away for most week days. Imagine the joy to come back and find time to go on my favourite site and see the thread continuing. ...[/quote]

Bloody hell Bury Yellow, Saxon eh?, deep respect my man!.

At the risk of being accused by old Yankee Canary, and using his words of, ''dumping'' on these boards, here I go, again!!.

Now this not a dig at the lads who played against Everton, as usual they did their best, and thats all we can ever ask of them, yes?.

But especially in the first half , a recognised, class striker may have done better than Francis, and made the net bulge!. A younger version of Iwan if you like!.

Now many of you will no doubt say, let this thread go Wiz, to hell with that I say!. Yet again yesterday, the absence of that said striker, was obvious to all ( Oh sorry Yankee, I forgot you never go to watch City play, do you?!.) The need for that player is even more critical come January.

If our board believe £2 million is ample for this essential purchase, than its my belief, that not only are they deluding themselves, they are also taking us, the supporters, for a very long and not so merry ride!.

And I refuse to ''buy into'' that debt figure of £20-£25 million, hell, Nigel hardly spent a dime on transfers has he?. Remind me again, just how much do you get in the Premiership these days, excluding Sky TV money and parachute payments etc.

I would advise you to ignore the words of timid caution from old YC, if he had had his way, Hucks would not be here now!.

Until this issue is resolved (one way or another) I shall from time to time, and with the moderators permission of course, resurrect this thread, so live with that YC!. 

We shall find out in January if this board of ours is serious about retaining the clubs Premiership status. Unfortunately, I think I know the answer to that question already.

Ye Gods, I feel sorry for Nigel Boy!. 

[Robbo007 0]

The problem Nigel is facing is that the odds are stacked up against him. I think everyone who supports Norwich thinks that he has done a great job, however, unless he guides us to mid-table, no "decent teams'' chairman will think "bloody hell he is good" and want to install him as manager".

Also Nigel has to think if we go down and lose a couple early on in the CCLC then i can guarentee the supporters will be on his back, it seems ridiculous, but its surprising the number of relegated managers who leave after going down from the premiership, ie Burley, Adams

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]The problem Nigel is facing is that the odds are stacked up against him. I think everyone who supports Norwich thinks that he has done a great job, however, unless he guides us to mid-table, no "decen...[/quote]

I''d take Adi''s goals right now Robbo, yes?.