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First Wizard

Feeling Sad For Nigel Boy

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Now this might really upset that doyen of  hacks ''Man in the stands'', but who really gives a hoot for his feelings?.

Its Nigel Worthington who my heart goes out to. Why?, simple really, how can he ''manage'' to his best ability, when the board will not back his judgement with hard cash!.

But they already have, the ''self inflated man'' and you cry. Really, are you so sure?. Take Hucks for example, remember how Doncaster bleated how and why we could''nt afford him. So Nigel and the fans etc, dug in, and hey presto!.

Its only my opinion, but I believe our illustrious board are only ''playing at'' being a Premiership team. With no real cash for a decent striker forthcoming before the deadline, what other conclusion is there?.

We ain''t got the money, do you really believe that line?. Did you, like me, expect a new striker to sign?, because I believe Sir Nigel did!.

It is a general rule, accepted by most managers, pundits and fans, that when you are promoted, you strengthen the squad. Nigel''s paltry budget has been a very sad joke, I would have thought £6 million at the very least, being the ball park figure for survival, in view of where we are playing now.

I accuse the board!. They control the purse strings.

It will be interesting come January,  maybe with us still struggling to score, just how much THEY give poor old Nigel boy, for his fighting fund.

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Will be interesting to see Wiz what happens in Jan and without wishing my life away I am waiting with baited breath.  Will the club just give Worthy the 1.2 mil saved on the shares or will they also give him added funds which presumably they have as Worthy was looking for a new striker prior to the season kick off.  I personally still have my favourite and believe that the club could do no wrong in going for Dean Ashton. 

Also just a note for those people that keep saying the season has just started.  We have now played 8 games and two more will take us over a quarter of the season played.  The need for points is of hight priority before we get to the point where half the season has gone before we even know it.

 

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I think they always planned to buy Huckerby.The "we can''t afford him" line was to get Man City to drop the price.The fact that the fans made such a fuss probably pushed the price up further. If we had kept quiet, they would have probably "offloaded" him and his wages for half a million.Still that''s by the by.The board will not give us much money come January, unless it looks as if we can definitely stay up. Backing a three legged horse would be terrible business by anyone''s standards.Let''s just enjoy the ride and see what happens, and leave the finger-pointing til things REALLY go wrong.

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[quote]I think they always planned to buy Huckerby.The "we can''t afford him" line was to get Man City to drop the price.The fact that the fans made such a fuss probably pushed the price up further. If we had...[/quote]

I agree with you to a point Bananaman.

But, would it not have been better to back a four legged horse for survival, in August my friend?.  :wow:

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Come on Bananaman - wait till things go REALLY wrong?

We are bottom and have dropped 4 home points to Palace and Pompey - it isn''t going to get more wrong than that - is it?

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Sorry m8 but that''s complete tosh.

The board have always backed Worthy to the best of their ability. The club has debts that need to be addressed for the long term, not just one season. Lets also not forget that a lot of Worthy''s signings have been quite poor and ended up costing the club quite a small fortune in transfer fees and contract settlements (Briggs, Easton, Emblen, Rivers..), he got it right last season by bringing in Francis and Edworthy and then getting a player proven at Div 1 level to be pure class. If the board had splashed out at the beginning of last season then we would have had Alan Lee up front and would probably have been playing Rotherham last saturday as a result.

They''ll be money to spend in January if the right players are available. That''s what Portsmouth done last season, and Birmingham the season before, both stayed up and are much stronger as a result this season.

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Well said as always Wiz.

We now seem to go back in a time zone of last year. Can you remember when you, me and a few others were ''murdered'' for suggesting that we were a bigger club than the board would suggest and it was about time they splashed about. Shock! Horror! What evil words that we produced. How wrong we were. Out they all came to say that we were a small club and how wonderful Delia and the board were to pour the their millions into the club.

I do not intend to pursue the arguments of that time. Only that us lot in Bury St Edmunds have come to the conclusion that we must live,like the rest of England other than Norfolk, in a dynamic area.

As majority shareholders they sit rather well in a company that has valuable estate.

Frankly I can''t be bothered to go through all the arguements again. I know that Delia and Michael love the club but they would not lose money because of it but perhaps I''m being cynical.

All I know is, that the club is not run as well as it should and I really do think that we supporters who support then through thick and thin, home and away, are being taken advantage of.

For example; take the under 19 international on Wednesday - It was a complete mess up!

Anyone want to argue with that? They could''nt even get 19,000 in before the kick off. Why? Well, they didn''t have enough turnstiles open- that''s why!! Supporters were still getting in 15 minutes after the kick off.

Those watching on Sky heard the bemusing safety message broadcast seconds before the kick off which carried on for minutes afterwards - totally destroying the atmosphere of the young supporters. Then to add further embarrasment was the Mr Carrow message. This was further confused when fringe supporters thought that Mr Carrow had become a Father - Oh joy!!"

Perhaps we shouldn''t be surprised - Delia does support the ''right on'' New Labour, Guardian politically correct sandall wearing brigade.

Come on Doomcaster and the rest of you - Remember last year - you took a chance (sic) and look where it got you. Just think BIG once again - it really won''t hurt you.

There we are Wiz - that should start a few of our old friends attacking us again!

 

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it would really help the club if you try to live in the real world, the club is as financialy sound or otherwise as the the books show every year, any debt or profit is there for all to see. delia is not a charity but on the other hand she has put a lot of money into the club (again the accounts will show us what that is) If the board take us into more debt and we still go down and maybe into administration then (quite rightly) they will be castigated by all and sundry for not running the club properly.There is NO guarantee that spending millions will keep us up, west brom have spent £3 million on a striker that can''t score, crouch hasn''t set the world alight and is now injured, i could go on.It was plain from the outset that the board would not risk the long term future of our club and as far as i am concerned I would be bl**y angry if they did. you all new that at the start so please don''t complain now that we havn''t topped the league yet!! 

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"Perhaps we shouldn''t be surprised - Delia does support the ''right on'' New Labour, Guardian politically correct sandall wearing brigade."

Whilst I too would like ncfc to spash out and improve our chances of survival (and success) I really think this disparaging sort of irrelevant comment can only undermine any post.

Perhaps you''d prefer someone from the ''right off'' Old Tory, Telegraph politically incorrect barbour jacket wearing brigade running the club.

Or perhaps Koppell, Reynolds, Knighton, Bates, Widdecome ...

Perhaps you''d arrange for someone to sell the ground and relocate to Albania.

Me, I''d prefer we keep our club, our ground AND our board (who''ve done a damn good job so far).

 

 

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he he bury and wiz, god at last a real subject to discuss!! 

you both know where i stand on this one, but for the benefit of the new ones, i have to say i agree with you, this club is not living to its potential, but that is not down to the board entirely wiz!!  Nothing is ever that black and white.  Bury, the arguments about the england game, i was there and yes, there were a lot of people not in their seats before kick off - but was that down to the board?  Don''t know who regulates the gates/turnstiles - but it was a bit of a mess i agree

if we are talking ambition - ummm, they don''t share mine, they never have, and it has cost them dear a few years back, we all know what happened last year re the "Aint got the money for hucks" 

this board was split into two camps, and boy did we have some great debates, you and me wiz were called all the names under the sun - and a few others too!  This club will never have out and out ambition, given its make up - apart from delia and michael who is there on there who would really go all out for it?  Answers please!  I am not a fan of doncaster (much less munby!) - but i am a fan of nige (we are not talking tactics now), he went all out for hucks and got him - i believe he will target someone for january and do the same again

thing is wiz (and bury) i have less faith in nige getting the right player this time, i don''t pretend to be a master tactician or know everything about the game, but i can see we have to lose this (fizzy league) obsession with target men.  Also the gary holt thing, if he won''t drop someone who clearly isn''t up to it, and not play (on a regular basis) his top signing, i don''t know if i have confidence in him to spend our precious 5-8 million (all this is  on paper money guys, not upfront stuff, i am including what we will get for greeno in this calculation).

yes, people, greeno will go, the deal is already done, don''t hide your heads in the sand - we have to accept it will happen and get someone who can put them in the other end to counteract the goals greeno always saves us!!

Can we do that, at present i have to say no, until we wake up and play through midfield, use pace and passing skills upfront.  At the moment an impossible dream?  umm, is anything impossible, not if you want it enough!  IMO worthy is going along the wba route, god we are even beginning to play like them!!  He thinks okay if we go down we will bounce straight back up, collecting £200 on passing go.  This is a dangerous course and one to forget.  All we have to do is get someone to stick in a couple of goals a game (but to do that we have to start creating)

that is our problem, and unfortunately wiz, that is not down to the board.  They will give nige the money - thing is what is he going to do with it?  Exciting times eh? 

 

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Oh come on people - so far we have lost to Liverpool, Arsenal & Man Utd - big deal, so will most of the rest of the league - we''ve drawn against Villa, Spurs & Newcastle. In reality we have only DROPPED points against two teams - Palace & Portsmouth - two teams who, yes, we should be looking to beat, but equally they are two teams who will be saying exactly the same things about Norwich i.e. they should be beating us.

So we are bottom of the league at the moment - but we have put in the hard work - hopefully the team will have learnt from their experiences at Anfield & Old Trafford and will put this experience to good use against the likes of West Brom, Fulham, Charlton, Southampton etc - who will all be saying exactly the same sort of things about taking points of Norwich.

Wait until January - see where we are in the league then. That will I think be the driver as to how much money Worthy will get - if we are in dire trouble then he will probably only get the £1.2 million, but if we are scrapping for our lives above the relegation zone, then some forward planning and investment may be likely - but unless we are all like Wiz and blessed with the third eye, none of us can say for sure what will happen. As other posters have already said elsewhere, if we are bottom and a long way from survival then it will be difficult to attract quality players with the prospect of Fizzy Drinks league footy....but if we if are in there fighting it out 5 or 6 places from the bottom then there is an incentive for people to come to the club with prospects of Premiership football next season.

Lets enjoy it for the moment and start worrying in the long dark days of January - there is a long, long way to go yet!

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I think this must be about the sixth thread you''ve started Wiz, with basically this claptrap and frankly continual repetition doesnt make it any more credible. I know its a quiet week with no game, one of the downsides of the Prem I guess, but surely you can could up with something a trifle more interesting? In case you''re struggling for ideas can I suggest:

1. Why did Worthington choose not to sign a striker in the summer when he had money available?

2. Since our board is so useless, name three (or more if you can think of them) football clubs whose board you would like to exchange them for.

3. Suggest reasons why of the EIGHT players Worthington signed in the summer only ONE has impressed so far or played any significant part in our season.

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I wouldn''t feel too sad for Nige Wiz!

He knows what''s available and if the cash is there I''m sure he''ll stamp his feet and get his way as he has in the past. Like when he wanted a new contract, and new players last Xmas.

He is now a sought-after manager, having made ,what then appeared unlikely, progress with City into the higher reaches of football, so would be in a good bartering position . He will fight your cause for you. (IMHO) 

But to enlarge the point, if the money is there why can''t we see it ? Aren''t the finances an open book ?

 

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Forget the political garbage, we need -

The Creative Midfielder

The Ball-playing Striker

The Specialist Offensive Coach

Of these 3, the most important is the last, because he can add value to the players we have, and find the full goal-scoring potential in the ones we bring in. Without him, you have to buy fully-developed, proven Premiership goal scorers, who will be too expensive for this club at this time. IMO, Nigel''s done a very good job on the defensive side, but hasn''t been able to get his forward players to pass and move, create space for themselves and each other. It''s no good having a great midfield play-maker when the forwards are trotting round holding hands with their markers and he''s got no play to make.

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Feeling Sad for Nigel Boy yes and feeling pretty sad for the supporters too ! After 9 years waiting the Boards backing of our club''s and manager''s first Premiership season back has been poor to say the least. We can make all the excuses we like but the harsh facts are we are the worst currently in the league. Its no good saying supporters must ''live in the real world''.  We know that but any Board who can make these decisions need a reality check themselves;

- There was not enough financial clout to sign the striker the team desperately needed.  Names linked all summer then nothing. The second summer running this happened.

- Docherty is wasted money - not going to cut it in defence or attack so why get him ?

- How vital was it 2 sign 2 extra goalkeepers, one of whom - Gallacher-  has hardly been seen since.

- An ''extra'' £1.2 million is now proudly announced to be available 2 months too late. Lets get real here too. The Board could reasonably have known a fair chunk of this cash would never be reclaimed by the shareholders so it could have been avaialable when it mattered in the summer not January.

- The Board''s attitude to the TV cash is a joke. They have budgeted for the 5 games we are guaranteed and won''t release any extra untill we are certain of more games bweing covered. Anybody can see we are going to get more than that because we are going to be in the thick of the relegation scrap till May - so why not give the manager a decent chance in the transfer market by releasing some of this earlier. January could well be too late.

No the Board are making a big thing of ''being prudent'' but it looks like a revival of the ''small rural club'' mentality to me and some of it - Docherty as striker particularly - is embarrassing to watch at this level. Its not particularly prudent to blow a decent chance of staying in the division because you won''t give the manager funds early enough to make a difference. If Nigel now goes out in January to sign somebody we could probably have had in the summer if he''d been given the cash then - ( Crouch, Harewood, Ashton) that will be absolutely scandalous over caution by the Board, not prudence,  and may well cost us very dearly.

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Well, well,well...you can always count on the same group of people to show their true colours when times get tough. Nothing new in thought process or creativity either, just the same old tired, worn conviction that we have to throw money at the first sign of trouble. Kind of reminds me of when a married couple runs into a real rocky patch and so, with good intentions, they decide to break the bank and embark on a lavish second honeymoon, only to discover that this solves nothing and the marriage is still in trouble. It takes daily commitment and working away at the little things with each of those passing days, building towards the bigger picture and the long-term goal. How quickly your end of the season love affair with Delia disappears.

We have a politician who would like to be President in the States who is justifiably called the flip-flopper because he can’t make his mind up what he actually stands for. For those of you on this thread who are of this persuasion, afflicted with short-term thinking (and memories), take a good hard look at your very own input to this message board. No I go further; take a good hard at your own input on this very thread. Gazza says in one paragraph that she is a fan of Nigel. In the very next paragraph she says she does not have confidence in him to get it right in January. Well, which way is it Gazza, is Nigel the right manager or not?? Get off the fence! Wizard, of course, is back in full force, "accusing the board". Well, we all know that we were going to take a cautious approach financially, including Nigel. We all know the reasons why. However, lets not forget that some good money had to be put on the table to get a few of the new players in and the selection of those players surely would have been down to Nigel’s judgement and his staff. In the early going many of those players have had limited time on the pitch. Whether you spend two million or six million, don’t spend it unless you believe it will add quality to your team. This is not down to the Board. Nigel has to learn too and he will, given time. There isn’t a manager in the country who wouldn’t rather have six million than two, or fifteen million rather than six. The point is don’t spend a penny unless you believe it strengthens your squad. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a practice season, you have to learn the Premiership experience live and online.

FatMan Fat chips in with his "cup half empty" outlook. Look at the positive side, where we took points but would not have expected to. Even at the end of last season if someone had shown me our starting fixture list this season I would have been thrilled to believe we would only lose three of those first eight games. As far as Bury Yellow’s input is concerned, if Bury St Edmunds is a dynamic area then I am thankful for small mercies that Delia and company are running the show at Norwich City FC.

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Remember those dark and distant days when a certain Mr O''Neill wanted 400,000 to buy a striker to score the goals to keep us in the top league, and a certain Mr Chase refused to let him have the money.  Well the good news is that there is no way that this board will allow that to happen again.  Nigel has said he has a good relationship with the board and more importantly he stated he would not pay over inflated prices for strikers. 

As several posters have said we have only been beaten by 3 of the top sides in this league.  We have only let ourseleves down badly in the Liverpool game.  The pairing of Huckerby and McKenzie showed promise in the last game, and I''m sure they will improve on that when we register that first win away at West Brom.

 

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yankee

first of all get one thing straight, i know you from old, i don''t mess with pretty words or lots of psycho clap trap (though i could, but this is a footie site) not relate''s msg board, maybe you need that one more than me  lol

i am a fan of nigel the man, rather than as a tactician or manager, he has stood tall before the board (bored?) before and got what he wants, i admire people who go all out for what they want, what i feel less happy about is his lack of consistency in recognising players who either lack class or not giving them enough time to gel into the team. 

It is not exactly sitting on the fence mate, i don''t think even you can accuse me of that - i worry about our team, that is part of the territory in being a supporter!  I worry about the ''make do'' method currently employed by the board - if we have money to spend (and we do, you know we do), first of all we have to make sure we spend it wisely, and not on creating another first division team (you know the stuff, kick and rush, holding the ball up)

i am now starting a swear box for every time i see those words on this site, should be able to cruise the caribbean on the proceeds next year!

I fully understand wiz''s concerns, and agree with most of them, i agree with some of the stuff you come out with too

and yes, bury st edmunds is a dynamic area, my son was born there!

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Nice to see you back Yankee - and talking sense again!

Is it just me or have some of the posters suddenly had a nasty dose of reality over the past couple of weeks? Some of the claptrap that was being written over the close season and after the euphoria of promotion should start to haunt the authors now...

This is the Premiership - a completely different league - as Nigel is so shocked to discover - he keeps mentioning it in his post match interviews...

Let''s face it - as YC says, the club did not buy well over the summer - a couple of "utility" players, 2 goalkeepers (what does that say about Green''s future) - BUT the club could probably not afford to do more - let''s face it we''ve all seen what has happened to the finances down the road at Portakabin Rd - they went for the burn financially bringing in the likes of Finidi George(!) and look at the dire straits that they are in now. When you look at WBA though, they did not make that mistake - learnt their lesson at the first attempt, bounced straight back up and have a much bigger war chest this time around - and I seriously believe they will survive too...

As I said in my previous post - enjoy the ride, stop bitching about the club and revisit some of your comments earlier this summer - its a classic British trait, talk them up then knock them down!

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[quote]I think this must be about the sixth thread you''ve started Wiz, with basically this claptrap and frankly continual repetition doesnt make it any more credible. I know its a quiet week with no game, on...[/quote]

Oh dear, oh dear!, well at least a lively dedate is better than the dross we have had to endure these past few weeks!.

Its interesting that the more contructive comments have come from the ''older'' posters on here, not so veiled insults from Creative Midfielder and the like, will be ignored.

YC: My worthy and respected adversary, has put across some very sane (for him) theories quite well, none of which I agree with, on damn principle!. But nontheless very well written.

Gazza: As usual her pearls of silvery wisdom, has nearly, I say nearly, softend my wrath. She may well have have hit on a idea with her more moderate attitude.

Bury Yellow: I''d expect nothing less from this fine poster, really clued up, and speaks his mind, and to hell with upsetting sensitive, ''tow the line'', posters!. A kindred spirit maybe, but not on these boards nearly enough for my tastes.

But I still will not change my mind that it is vital, vital, that our tight fisted, nervous board, take the big plunge in January, and give Nigel some real cash, and trust me ''HE'' will sign!!.

And I don''t mean a paltry £1.8 million quid, Delia and Co!.

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Shows a complete lack of common sense. Not much change or bravery here I''m afraid.  Nigels good! nigels bad, the boards financially inept. Make up your minds for goodness sake.  Perhaps we should go back to the brilliance we witnessed in the Chase era.  The debt then, was much less then than it is now and look where that got us. Not-withstanding that, there were one or two shrewd real-estate buys that were able to be capitalised on for the present teams benefit  We are only in hock for about £25million at present, and that''s brilliant!!?.  I''m pretty sure, from what I read here that not many contributors of the spend ilk here, run successful businesses, or homes for that matter, or are indeed, in a responsible position at work, where they control the purse strings.  Perhaps it would be wise to remember that it''s better to spend only money that you have,  because ambition can only be as deep as your pockets if the business is to remain solvent.  I trust Worthy and the board to be as prudent with NCFC''S capital as they are with their own. In my opinion Delia has been more than generous to our club,and to suggest otherwise, and expect more would be downright cheeky, to say the least, IMO she at least should be left to be the judge of her own input.  While in terms of players out there, that may perhaps solve all our ills, just get it into your heads , we can''t afford them.  All we do need is the effort from the players that we have, to play out of their skins for the rest of the season, to concentrate on each game for ninety minutes and not make silly errors, while making room for a loan signing or two to take care of any injuries that may befall us.OTBC!!!!:

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beelsie

there was a post a while ago about personal insults to posters, so i have to be careful, but your generalisations about some posters'' personal circumstances are a bit below the belt, what both sides of the argument are saying has NOTHING to do with their ability to spend vast quantities of money

if you really need to know, yes i have had my own business in the past but due to a marriage split have it no more, i have run my own finances, and my own house for 23 years, brought up two kids almost single handed, do not owe a penny and don''t have a credit card, and yes, i do know a number of posters on here who run their own businesses and hold responsible positions in their working lives

what our opinion on nigel, the board etc is is said in our own words and i will not just toe the party line for the sake of it, what i say is how i feel, nothing in life, nor sadly football is perfect, but some of us (as usual) are shot down for holding a different opinion to those who can see the club doing nothing but good.  I remember last year and the huckerby saga.  I was belittled and shot down then for saying my piece, but i shall go on saying what i think, i actually have immense respect of the likes of yankee and wiz, they have opinions!!  After all - this is a message board for opinions and thoughts, if i was ever likely to be a doncaster yes girl, i would be his secretary

enough said!

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...because i remember those posts almost exactly a year back under those names - they contained all the sentiments that we are hearing now, including something about how we all knew deep down that ipswich would go up and we wouldn''t, as well as a "i won''t be renewing my season ticket." Was that you? Talk about jumping the gun. For god''s sake it''s only October. Did you feel at all, just a little bit silly as we stormed to the top and kept away all challengers from December to May? Or did you just sit back and wait for the opportunity to come out again with excatly the same arguments?

The things that really gets me about people who trot out these arguements is that they can be roundly proved wrong on virtually every level and yet this only keeps them in their rabbit holes for a short time and after no time at all they sneak their heads out again with the same old arguments. And there''s nothing the team or club can do to stop this happening. If we won the European Cup they would still come out with the same stuff.

Seeing as the board and the management judged things well enough to achieve what was said they never would (promotion) - why not just give them a chance to get things right again rather than shoot them down before we''ve even had 2 months of the season. They''ve got even more time to prove you wrong than last year. Or are you part of that "we signed huckerby" gang that emerged last Christmas so apocryphally?

And before you start, don''t go labelling people as "board lovers" just because they don''t round on them at the first opportunity. Personally, there are some things the board has done that i''m not convinced have been the right decisions (e.g. building the corner infill at £3m) but i''m prepared to give them a chance at least beyond October.

I can''t help thinking a lot of you must lead slightly miserable and gloomy lives - try and put some positivity into your lives people, let the sunshine in!

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Either that, or the "moaning posters" live entirely happy, wonderful lives with all the fulfillment they could ever have dreamed of.

I say that, because only those looking for a problem/fight/battle could have managed to find one in our current situation. We never expected to stay up, surely?!

In my own humble opinion we will not stay up this season because we lack quality right across the pitch. NOT because we haven''t bought one striker (West Ham went down with Di Canio, Kanoute, Defoe and Joe Cole, Leeds with Smith and Viduka).
Green and Hucks are our only players that would make any team from any "established" premiership club.

But we are on the way. Our plan is only just beginning, and in two years we will be back stronger, richer and (as Darth Vader once said) more powerful than you could ever imagine.

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Do I feel sad for Nigel Boy? Not really, he has a fan base that will provide excellent and vocal support throughout the season. These same fans in truth recognise that he and the board have done a good job in exceeding our expectations and getting us into the prem for the 2004/05 season when even just 12 months ago we were doomed for several more seasons of fizzy pop football. I do have some worries about any fan who felt that life in the prem would be abreeze with no relegation concerns, my own view is that with a following wind we could perhap reach the dizzy heights of perhaps 14th/15th; my expectation was that we would finish 18th with a real hope that we could sneak that 17th position - on goals scored if needed!

Nigel has a board that will not panic into sacking his recognising the acheivements and progress he has made over the last 3 seasons. I recall I was appalled when he was appointed as I though he was a limited manager set fair on a long ball game. However he has continued to develop as a manager and importantly learnt from his mistakes.

Nigel has widened his approach to the game and continues to improve tactically, (although not quite quick enough for my liking!) Like stepping into the old Div 1 he took some time to adjust - most people do when encountering a slightly different role to the once previously faced.

He has made some tough decisions, including ones he knew that would be unpopular with players and fans - he still had the guts to do so.

Nigel chose not to be held to ransom over signing a striker at the end of August - suggesting he had the cash to buy one and showing the support of the board.
He took the decision that the current strikers would be good enough for the prem, rather than blowing the budget. One of his learning curves I hope.

Nigel now has this cash plus the ''extra'' £1.2m to invest in Jan. He may unearth another Hux in that time or he may buy/loan another Neil Emblen. Name me a manager that has never bought a dud? Any purchase runs that risk of not deliver the promise for any one of a thousand reasons. Perhaps naively I do think that our summer signings are a definite improvement on the players that have left and there are signs that we will see their full potential soon as they settle into their new environments.

Having been through the near bankruptcy days I am now more confident of Citys future that I have been for a decade; we are in the prem, playing good football on a small budget. Of course I would love to spend £10m on a Hasselbaink etc but is that any good for the club long term and could we attract them anyway? If we do get relegated it is not the end of the world.

My view is that this season is a win for us even if we get relegated. We have the nucleus of a stronger squad than our championship side, that is likely to remain even if we get relegated; we are relatively financially sound and have a stability that most clubs would die for.

Another way to look at it is if we dont like the current board or management what is the alternative? A new board (many thanks for your cash injections delia - now cheerio!) or a new manager - both only lead to uncertainty from the board to the fans - that was exactly the approach Leeds took and where did that get them? Follow Charltons lead - have a plan, have faith and most importantly have stability.

Do I follow the board blindly? I think I can form my own opinion and while I would like to have bought better quality players and would play my favourites and not nigels thats what being a city fan is about - we are not the most affluent or attractive club in the land but why should that stop us?

Do I feel sad for NW? not a bit; and I see no real reason why any city fan should feel sad either - this is no time for navel gazing or witch hunting - its a time to sing proud.

KICK IT OFF...

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Now this is more like the message board of old, well done to the Wizard for wheeling out one of the old classics - the case of Prudence vs All on red.

The simple fact is we have a board who are looking to create a long term future for the club. Our business model will be to spend what we can afford. There are three major revenue areas:

1) Gate receipts - ''bums on seats''. If we are to stay in the Premiership or even if we become a yo-yo club there will be a high demand for tickets. The club have carefully gone about increasing the capacity of the ground and putting in place options for further expansion if demand for tickets stays where it is. Now last year we had several posters complaining that we were investing in the ground before the playing staff

2) Merchandising - With the limited UK market the club are obviously looking to cash in out in the far east, hence the Malaysian tour.

3) TV money - The sad fact is that the Premiership is the only source of the cash. Sky have created a situation where there are the Premiership have''s and everyone else is a have not. The one saving grace is the parachute payments. Clubs which go down have one good year in which to come back but only provided they haven''t blown it all on massive debt. The club will have factored these funds in to their forecast for next year and I expect they will release what they can afford to in January to have a good go at staying up.

I want to see the club I support still in existence in ten years time. Far too many clubs have thrown money at it and failed some have sunk without trace (Bradford, Shef Wed) or are threatening to (Leeds). Now I know throwing £70mio at the team isn''t what posters are advocating but for a club the size of ours £7mio could put us in bad shape come next year. For me Beelsie and A1 are spot on, run this club like a proper business, spend what we can afford, if it comes to it I''d rather have a decent run at the fizzy pop next season than risk it all and face dropping to the depths.

 

Out of interest First Wizard who is HE anyway? Are we talking about the homecoming of Mr Sutton?

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I''d like to thank Wiz and his third eye for a controversial topic. Many interesting points have been made from both sides. I seem to have been able to ruffle a feather. I believe that I have, after reading some of the threads again and do seem to me to advocate poor financial practice regarding our clubs finances. 

I have come to the conclusion that our angry contributor has indeed made my point, by saying that she has no debt, has survived a marital disaster, doesn''t have a credit card owns her own house and has more or less single-handedly brought up two children. "Good on ya", I say.

If these to you are attributes, worthy of praise.  Why is it you must advocate a passage of financial disaster for our clubs management team?  I would agree on the other hand that we could do much better on the playing front and with better players set the Prem alight. With already a financial debt of 25 million we just have to be patient enough to introduce gradually some of the undoubted tallent that we have languishing in the reserves. 

I still believe that MY beloved team will stay up. No! I do''nt toe any party line nor would I. If the management team stray from what i believe to be sound business practice they will be severely criticised as a whole. When We as a club have a crowd base of 40000 then that will be a base that we can build on but we have to have the money coming in through the turnstiles first.  I would build my club the way I built my business, slowly, and successfully. OTBC!!!!

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This thread has developed nicely with some valid points being made from both sides. Things that struck home to me in particular are "Nav Man"''s point about 2 more matches and we a quarter way through the season - pretty scary!.  Despite "Creative Midfielder" being dismissed by some, at least 2 of his questions are very valid considering where we are right now. "Mr Carrow" makes a lot of sense and "Gazza" usually stands her ground very well. Unfortunately I generally find that "Yankee Canary" indulges in diatribe and personal snide - no disappointment there then (whats with the bold type - lack of self esteem?).

However of all the input, the following from "Zipper" was the most poignant for me -

Do I follow the board blindly? I think I can form my own opinion and while I would like to have bought better quality players and would play my favourites and not nigels thats what being a city fan is about - we are not the most affluent or attractive club in the land but why should that stop us?

We should all have the right to our opinions. Personally I am not sure that we invested wisely with the new signings as only Charlton and Bentley have had any impact. I don''t always agree with Nigel''s selections or tactics - but why should I?  On the other hand I have invested huge amounts of time, and a fair amount of money, into Norwich City and not unnaturally I would like to see them survive this year.  In order to do so the Board will probably have to find more than the £1.2million being talked about. Which I guess brings us back to Wizard''s original post - great being a Norwich supporter isn''t it

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