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TheMarshmallowMan

Norwich v WBA - a Comparison

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A while back, I made two articles concerning Norwich''s Survival Chances, and Potential Premiership Targets. My fourth article (my third concerned England''s chance''s in Euro 2004) is a comparison between Norwich and WBA.

Norwich and WBA are both teams that have been promoted from the 1st Division this season. However, that is where the similarities end. WBA are a very defensive side, with a large number of defenders and very few attackers. Let''s have a quick look over their squad.

Sekou Berthe 26 D
Simon Brown 20 M
Adam Chambers 23 D
James Chambers 23 D
Neil Clement 25 D
Rob Davies M
Scott Dobie 25 F
Lloyd Dyer 21 M
Thomas Gaardsoe 29 D
Sean Gregan 30 M
Bernt Haas 26 D 2
Geoff Horsfield 30 F
Russell Hoult 31 G
Lee Hughes 28 F
Rob Hulse 24 F
Andy Johnson 30 M
Jason Koumas 24 M
Lee Marshall 25 M
Simon Miotto 34 G
Darren Moore 30 D
Joe Murphy 22 G
James O''Connor 24 M
Darren Purse 28 D
Paul Robinson 25 D
Artim Sakiri 30 M
Riccardo Scimeca 29 D
Larus Sigurdsson 31 D
Ronnie Wallwork 26 D
Martin Albrechtson 26 D

The list above shows the name of the player, their age, and their position (g = goalkeeper, d = defender, m = midfielder and f= forward).

The list above shows that WBA have a total of;

Goalkeepers; 3
Defenders; 12
Midfielders; 9
Attackers; 4
Total; 27

Let''s compare that to Norwich;

Zema Abbey 27 F
David Bentley 19 F
Jim Brennan 27 D/M
Keith Briggs 22 D
Adam Drury 25 D
Marc Edworthy 31 D
Craig Fleming 32 D
Damien Francis 25 M
Paul Gallacher 24 G
Robert Green 24 G
Ian Henderson 19 F
Gary Holt 31 M
Darren Huckerby 28 F
Ryan Jarvis 18 F
Joe Lewis 16 G
Malky Mackay 32 D
Leon McKenzie 26 F
Paul McVeigh 26 M
Phillip Mulryne 26 M
Youssef Safri 27 M
Jason Shackell 20 D
Matthias Svensson 29 F

So that''s;

Goalkeepers; 3
Defenders; 6/7
Midfielders; 5/6
Attackers; 7
Total; 22

A total of five players difference. But while WBA''s squad is heavily in favour of it''s many, many defenders, Norwich have much more balanced squad - if slightly small.

Of course, not all players are Premiership class. Of West Brom''s players, the following are really only Premiership class;

Simon Brown 20 M
Neil Clement 25 D
Thomas Gaardsoe 29 D
Sean Gregan 30 M
Bernt Haas 26 D 2
Russell Hoult 31 G
Geoff Horsfield 30 F
Lee Hughes 28 F
Rob Hulse 24 F
Jason Koumas 24 M
James O''Connor 24 M
Darren Purse 28 D
Riccardo Scimeca 29 D
Martin Albrechtson 26 D

A total of around;

Goalkeepers; 1
Defenders; 6
Midfielders; 4
Attackers; 3
Total; 14

In comparison, Norwich are;

David Bentley 19 F
Adam Drury 25 D
Marc Edworthy 31 D
Craig Fleming 32 D
Damien Francis 25 M
Paul Gallacher 24 G
Robert Green 24 G
Gary Holt 31 M
Darren Huckerby 28 F
Leon McKenzie 26 F
Paul McVeigh 26 M
Phillip Mulryne 26 M
Youssef Safri 27 M
Matthias Svensson 29 F

Goalkeepers; 2
Defenders; 3
Midfielders; 5
Attackers; 4
Total; 14

Pretty interesting if you ask me. WBA do have six players more than Norwich - but even so, Norwich still have the same number of players that can step up to the Premiership. This poses the question, do we really have as small a squad as we think? Without posting the squad lists and such as I did for WBA, Crystal Palace only have a total of around 12 players capable of stepping up, and Portsmouth have 15 (should they sign the three they''re reported to be signing).

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Very interesting and well thought out Andrew. Personally I think Brennan will make the step up, but apart from that I agree with you.

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And just to cap it all,their best player, Jason Koumas, the only one with a bit of creativity in him, yesterday asked for a transfer!!!!!!!!!!

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Canary Boy: Sorry if you were bored reading this - perhaps reading picture books would be more your thing?

Concerning Brennan, yes I agree - however, I''ve not seen enough of him to make an opinion. All the others I have.

Whoareyou?: Jason Koumas wanting out will be a huge blow to WBA. If he goes, they''ll need someone with the ability to drive the ball forward - it would probably be a harder position to fill than their striker.

I do think WBA will struggle next season. They don''t have the ability going forward to make their chances count.

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Interesting, if not very scientific... the numbers of prem players is just your opinion - there will be others that step up and some that don''t for some reason. Plus, what is it with people''s obsession with the size of transfer fees paid?? It is NOT necessarily a measure of quality... Hasselbaink went on a free! Hux cost less than half the fee paid for Crouch...?

Judge the players, not the size of the fee.

Ama

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Just a few points, it''s interesting to see your comparisons, but you''ve made quite a few mistakes, and I''d just like to correct them, and share my views. Oh and btw I can''t log onto the original who ? so I''ve had to create another account, not that any of you care of course ;).

Sekou Berthe 26 D
Simon Brown 20 F
Adam Chambers 23 M
James Chambers 23 D
Neil Clement 25 D
Scott Dobie 25 F
Lloyd Dyer 21 M
Thomas Gaardsoe 29 D
Sean Gregan 30 M
Bernt Haas 26 D 2
Geoff Horsfield 30 F
Russell Hoult 31 G
Lee Hughes 28 F
Rob Hulse 24 F
Andy Johnson 30 M
Jason Koumas 24 M
Lee Marshall 25 M
Simon Miotto 34 G
Darren Moore 30 D
Joe Murphy 22 G
James O''Connor 24 M
Darren Purse 28 D
Paul Robinson 25 D
Artim Sakiri 30 M
Riccardo Scimeca 29 M
Larus Sigurdsson 31 D
Ronnie Wallwork 26 M
Martin Albrechtson 26 D

Just to change a few of the details we have;

3 Gkeepers
10 Defenders
9 Midfielders
5 Strikers, if my maths is correct.

Out of those the following players are good enough for the Premiership.

More to follow shortly…

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...Thomas Gaardsoe 29 D
Sean Gregan 30 M
Geoff Horsfield 30 F
Russell Hoult 31 G
Jason Koumas 24 M
Joe Murphy 22 G
Darren Purse 28 D
Artim Sakiri 30 M
Riccardo Scimeca 29 M
Martin Albrechtson 26 D (hopefully, if not, it will be one hell of an expensive mistake, but Megson is fantastic in the transfer market and I''m extremely confident the players he brings in are good enough.

2 GKs
3 Defenders
4 Midfielders
1 Striker

Are Premiership quality.

I don''t know how you''ve said that Brown is good enough for the Premiership, he''s never played a furst team game for Albion! And how anyone can say O''Connor is good enough for the Prem has never seen him play!

The thing is having seen us play in the Premiership two seasons ago, I know full well that players, that outclassed everyone in Division one or the Coca Cola Championship, get thrashed everyweek

Out of that we can see that IMO Albion need to bring in, another two wide defenders, another 2 midfielders and another 2 strikers at least. That''s why Megson says he needs to bring in another 6-7 players if we are to have any chnace of survival.

Some players such as Moore, Johnson, Robinson, J Chambers, Hughes will be adequate back-up next year, and Lloyd Dyer may pose a threat if he''s used a sub in the last 15 minutes of matches again.

I won''t say, which Norwich players I think are good enough for the Premiership,(beacuse firstly I havn''t seen enough of all the players to judge their abilities and secondly I don''t want to upset anyone with my views on each player''s ability), only that, if you think everyone on that list is Premiership quality then you''re in for a big shock next season.

On another note, Koumas'' transfer request has been turned down, and the only reason he put in it in, in the first place, is because he''s currently earning less than £10,000 and wants it doubled, in line with the new wage cap system.

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andrew, don''t worry about the negative comments, i found your post v interesting, and all i have to say is how i compare the two teams...........

norwich city, attractive style of play, huckerby, worthy, loyal fans who turn up for away games and championship parades etc

w brom, football for insommniacs, megson, a few fans who turn up for away games, none for promotion celebrations

and a field full of donkeys eeeeyyyyoooorrrreeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Harry Potter speaks the truth:

[link]http://www.pinkun.com/Content/ncfc/Columns/rick/RickWaghornhome.asp[/link]

And as for Jason Koumas, I''ll let Worthy have the final word:

"F**king Jason Koumas! F**king Jason KOUMAS winning tackles!"

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Andrew, i found it interesting.....what we all should remember is we play a better passing game (more suited to premier?) and our character is much better,this can take us a long way.By buying loads of players for large fees does''nt guarantee you anything!!!,having a team who moan,berate each other or a manager who does the same, we also don''t have,feel lucky with where we''re at.................OTBC.

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I can see why we might want to compare ourselves with the Baggies as many fans of both clubs, and beyond, are rightly or wrongly assuming that we will be competing against them to avoid relegation. This may end up being the case, of course, but as I''ve said on another thread we need to remember that in terms of Premiership survival they are two years ahead of us (financially if not in other ways). They will have more money to spend on players, although that cannot guarantee that they will do better than us ultimately as there are many more variables that come into play than just how many players of how much monetary worth you have in your squad.
Re: the Koumas ongoing saga, there are WBA fans who believe his request is purely motivated by money, but there are also plenty who believe that he cannot work under Megson and is being stifled by his management style and tactics. There are also rumours of certain personal problems, although I don''t know if there''s any substance. Wherever the truth lies it doesn''t make for a happy camper or a completely happy camp. That''s just one example of a variable that might come into play for any club at any time...so let''s just hope that everything here stays on an even keel to give us the best possible chance of survival.

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Fantastic post Andrew. Very biased towards Norwich, but it''s good to see a comparison based on more than opinion.

Is true that WBA want Carew? Hahahaha, good luck. I seem to remember a few eight figure offers for him turned down a couple of years back from some of the best teams in Europe. Unless he''s gone massively down hill since I last saw him they''ve got no chance.

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I tend to agree with Canary Boy. The lack of really interesting news in terms of transfers for us has given rise to some fairly anally retentive speculation of late. A full page comparing and contrasting us to WBA for god''s sake! And it''s not even funny. Whatever does happen next season, one thing is for sure it won''t be anything like the various predictions ( apart from the wizard''s of course, I''ve already put my house on Sunderland going up) that have appeared on threads. Please buy someone interesting Nigel quickly or if all we can get on the message board is pseudo- intellectual / statto stuff, could someone sedate me ''til August 14th.

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Andrew I think it''s an interesting post, and food for thought. I wonder if Jason Koumas is Worthys'' secret interest. I sincerely hope so at a million. For me he''s a great playmaker and has a good first touch and vision. It made good reading Andrew and don''t worry about pictures, most people on here like to explain themselves, Me!!!! included. OTBC!!!

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To all the people who find the article a bit long, next time I''ll write (Long) in the title, my apologies, I thought I''d put it in there already. Yes, they could be a bit shorter, but this one was (sorry!) full of lists. If you take the lists out, it''s not actually that long.

To all the others, I''ll try and address your replys now;

Amarillo; Players should always be judged by their performance on the pitch (in my opinion). What I was trying to indicate by posting the costs of the new signings how different the overall strategys between Meggers and Worthy have had to have been because of the budget avaliable to them. Thanks for replying.

Who2: I''ve based my ideas from speaking with a couple of WBA supporters, and seeing them in action once or twice last season. Yeah - I probably made some mistakes. Thanks for helping out.

I would, however, disagree with your change of Ronnie Wallwork from Defender to Midfielder. I think he is a pretty defensive player in nature, and his passing skills isn''t great (from what I''ve seen).

Also, the players I''ve earmarked from WBA and Norwich aren''t players that will step up and be able to play in the Premiership, they are players that have the potential to.

Thanks for your reply!

Gazza; Lol, interesting comparison :) Donkeys or not, (actually, Meggers does look a little like Donkey off Shrek...) WBA are still one of the teams we will be competing with for survival. I''m sure that one team promoted will survive, and I think it''s either us or them.

Peter Raven; Yes I read that article - very interesting. I''m not as optimistic as he is though - I think the Baggies will have learnt a lesson from their last visit here, even though they seem to be loosing Koumas! Thanks for your reply.

Sparky; Yes, those things do help - but we need to have a talented squad as well. We''ll have to see how it goes.

Susie b; Norwich and WBA are an interesting comparison because they are so very different, yet they have the same overall objective. That''s why I compared them, and also why I think it will be one of these clubs to survive the drop this season.

Better make a new post before I get moaned at for having long replies as well as long posts! lol!

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Jonzey; Yes, my posts are biased towards Norwich - but that''s only because I''m a Norwich supporter (obviously!). Also, I do believe that a neutral could in fact come to the same conclusion. What I''m trying to say is that, yes, our squad is smaller than WBA''s and other clubs, but we do have the talent there to mount a serious survival push.

Thanks for your reply.

Shortfatb; Sorry you didn''t enjoy the post, mate. Next time, I''ll perhaps recite a limmerick, or tell a joke mid way :) Anyhow, if you''ve put your money on Sunderland going up next season, I''d start packing your bags, I fully expect Sunderland to miss out again.

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Andrew, this message board is made up of all types of posters, each having their own preferences of what they like to read and respond to. My preference is to read posts such as yours that require thought both from the writer and the reader. Much better, from my perspective, than the thousands of short ( no thought required ) posts from DD and others engaging in popularity contests. Of course, such individuals also provide good input on occasion but some of us tend to miss the good posts simply due to the sheer volume of posts. So you see DD, while your intent was to offer a constructive suggestion to Andrew ( who posts very few messages ) you might be well advised to listen to your own advice, i.e cut down on the volume and be a little more selective.

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The number of people who take this site so seriously is shocking.

It''s just a bit of fun, so why not relax and chill rather than slagging each other off?

However, before I end this post, i''m just going to quickly ignore my own advice (I have acknowledged this, so no need to point it out) and say that YankeeCanary''s last post sounds very much like he/she wrote it whilst stuck up his own ****. But, then he/she does live in America so what did I really expect?

Happy posting!

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WBA=Well Below Average....footballing side, although I must admit, Smegson is an excrement manager! OK, so the "Baggies" have invested a few squid on some new additions to their squad. It''s just that I don''t really care about statistics or whether money, wisely (or unwisely) spent, will decide the outcome of our position at the end of May 2005. Greece displayed with their "average side" to Europe and the worldwide "soccer" scene, that it wasn''t pure good fortune which allowed them to proudly hold aloft the Euro 2004 trophy, but their excellent preparation in "setting their stall out", doing their homework, and sticking to a game-plan. I therefore like to think, (being a realist and not a mentalist) that we can emulate their resilient hard-working performance, and achieve what''s required before the termination of next season. You can all laugh if you like! and scoff at my "whacko" comment''s, but we will suprise a few folk this season. We will not be crowned "Champion''s" because we ain''t got the strength in depth (another footie cliche) but team spirit and work ethic will see us through! I bet a few top sides who come to Carrow Road, will know they have been in a game. Anyway fellow posters, I must now once again adorn my strait-jacket, as my medication and cosy padded cell, await my immediate presence! "Nitey Nite!" ;~)

PS We will do AWRIGHT! trust me, I''m the Prime Minister!

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Mouse, if I ALWAYS criticized DD I am afraid, due to sheer volume, there would have to be a dedicated message board to accommodate just the two of us. All I am doing on this thread is supporting a poster who''s thought process I enjoy ( Andrew ), while at the same time providing DD with the same constructive advice he felt he needed to share with Andrew.

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YC, I completely agree with you. You weren''t rude or abusive to DD, you were constructive and polite. While I did find Andrew''s post slightly long, it was still an interesting comparison.

People on here don''t seem to like it when you post your thoughts, and will attack you for doing so, yet they feel the need to jump to the defence of others when you offer constructive criticisism.

Having said that, this message board is here for anyone to post whatever they wish, there shouldn''t be restrictions. The only thing that annoys me is when people on here have a pop at others, yet can''t take similar criticism themselves.

OTBC

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Mello Yello - good post! Move over though, I''m joining you in the padded cell for the duration!

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