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Andy Larkin

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Why is it, when you take the time to construct a robust and well-thought out response to an equally robust but maybe not so well-thought-out post (in my opinion obviously, otherwise I would be in agreement wouldn''t I?), do people just stop responding?There''s loads of carp thrown around on here by some "right rum buggers" as my granfa''r would say, but when you try and engage them in reasoned debate, they simply melt away. Is it because they don''t have the wit nor substance to back up their arguments? Or have they been called downstairs for their tea?There are some people that frequent this MB that I have quite differing views from - and I respect them for that - but they still manage to rise above the name-calling (Mr Carrow I seem to remember engaged in quite a reasoned debate, although I am sure that plenty will disagree) but others shout really loudly, rise a right old commotion and then bugger off when challenged.If they approached a discussion in the same way in the Coach or The Kings Arms or wherever (insert your own watering hole here) before or after a game, they would most likely get a poke on the snout, which means of course, that they wouldn''t actually behave as they do on here if they became engaged in said discussion… yet on here they can call people a binner / Percy / Nancy / board-in''r / board out''r without so much as a tuppence of care for the outcome.It''s little wonder that the barricades aren''t being stormed… because there isn''t really anyone with the balls or gumption to set about it!Sirs, I lay before you a gauntlet… I would be honoured if someone would have the good grace to pick it up and smite my knavish cheek with it… figuratively speaking of course!It''s a simple question… requiring an adult and simple answer.OK - assuming that Big Pete doesn''t (A) deem us worthy (B) have the money or (C) have the guts for the fight etc (delete as you see fit)… what is YOUR solution to this most horrible impasse which we find ourselves rubbing up against?I welcome storming the barricade type posts, but only if you have used your grey matter to think it through and past the pyrrhic victory stage!This is a post from someone who has done that before, who won''t be doing it again, is fuc*ed right royally off with our plight and would love to hear some good old "blue-sky" thinking about how we progress without BOTH Delia and Co. and The Maidstone Miser.Thanking you for your time in advance (those that can read that is)

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[quote user="Andy Larkin"]Why is it, when you take the time to construct a robust and well-thought out response to an equally robust but maybe not so well-thought-out post (in my opinion obviously, otherwise I would be in agreement wouldn''t I?), do people just stop responding?There''s loads of carp thrown around on here by some "right rum buggers" as my granfa''r would say, but when you try and engage them in reasoned debate, they simply melt away. Is it because they don''t have the wit nor substance to back up their arguments? Or have they been called downstairs for their tea?There are some people that frequent this MB that I have quite differing views from - and I respect them for that - but they still manage to rise above the name-calling (Mr Carrow I seem to remember engaged in quite a reasoned debate, although I am sure that plenty will disagree) but others shout really loudly, rise a right old commotion and then bugger off when challenged.If they approached a discussion in the same way in the Coach or The Kings Arms or wherever (insert your own watering hole here) before or after a game, they would most likely get a poke on the snout, which means of course, that they wouldn''t actually behave as they do on here if they became engaged in said discussion… yet on here they can call people a binner / Percy / Nancy / board-in''r / board out''r without so much as a tuppence of care for the outcome.It''s little wonder that the barricades aren''t being stormed… because there isn''t really anyone with the balls or gumption to set about it!Sirs, I lay before you a gauntlet… I would be honoured if someone would have the good grace to pick it up and smite my knavish cheek with it… figuratively speaking of course!It''s a simple question… requiring an adult and simple answer.OK - assuming that Big Pete doesn''t (A) deem us worthy (B) have the money or (C) have the guts for the fight etc (delete as you see fit)… what is YOUR solution to this most horrible impasse which we find ourselves rubbing up against?I welcome storming the barricade type posts, but only if you have used your grey matter to think it through and past the pyrrhic victory stage!This is a post from someone who has done that before, who won''t be doing it again, is fuc*ed right royally off with our plight and would love to hear some good old "blue-sky" thinking about how we progress without BOTH Delia and Co. and The Maidstone Miser.Thanking you for your time in advance (those that can read that is)[/quote]Cobblers[;)]

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[quote user="Andy Larkin"]Why is it, when you take the time to construct a robust and well-thought out response to an equally robust but maybe not so well-thought-out post (in my opinion obviously, otherwise I would be in agreement wouldn''t I?), do people just stop responding?

There''s loads of carp thrown around on here by some "right rum buggers" as my granfa''r would say, but when you try and engage them in reasoned debate, they simply melt away. Is it because they don''t have the wit nor substance to back up their arguments? Or have they been called downstairs for their tea?

There are some people that frequent this MB that I have quite differing views from - and I respect them for that - but they still manage to rise above the name-calling (Mr Carrow I seem to remember engaged in quite a reasoned debate, although I am sure that plenty will disagree) but others shout really loudly, rise a right old commotion and then bugger off when challenged.

If they approached a discussion in the same way in the Coach or The Kings Arms or wherever (insert your own watering hole here) before or after a game, they would most likely get a poke on the snout, which means of course, that they wouldn''t actually behave as they do on here if they became engaged in said discussion… yet on here they can call people a binner / Percy / Nancy / board-in''r / board out''r without so much as a tuppence of care for the outcome.

It''s little wonder that the barricades aren''t being stormed… because there isn''t really anyone with the balls or gumption to set about it!

Sirs, I lay before you a gauntlet… I would be honoured if someone would have the good grace to pick it up and smite my knavish cheek with it… figuratively speaking of course!

It''s a simple question… requiring an adult and simple answer.

OK - assuming that Big Pete doesn''t (A) deem us worthy (B) have the money or (C) have the guts for the fight etc (delete as you see fit)… what is YOUR solution to this most horrible impasse which we find ourselves rubbing up against?

I welcome storming the barricade type posts, but only if you have used your grey matter to think it through and past the pyrrhic victory stage!

This is a post from someone who has done that before, who won''t be doing it again, is fuc*ed right royally off with our plight and would love to hear some good old "blue-sky" thinking about how we progress without BOTH Delia and Co. and The Maidstone Miser.

Thanking you for your time in advance (those that can read that is)
[/quote]

What you do in your personal time........

Seriously though, I''m not sure your simple question was simple enough

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Of late, some sort of idea has been forming in my mind .... I reckon the majority (not everybody) would agree the following:the club is in trouble there are insufficient funds to pay top-class loanees/attract top-class loaneesGunn is an inexperienced managerthe majority shareholders are genuine fansthe majority shareholders are extremely worried; I Googled Delia''s net worth & it seems to be approx. £13m, which means an awfully high percentage of her money is tied up in the club.The arrival of any purchaser with more commitment to the club than the present incumbents is extremely unlikely.The net result is that BOTH the club & the (effective) owners need as much help as they can get. They are stuck with each other & we are stuck with them. So, if we can help Delia, we can help NCFC.I think she is receptive to fans'' input, but accusations of being a closet Binner, only in it for the money etc etc. will only harden her heart. Ranting at someone who doesn''t have to listen is seldom productive.What she really, desperately needs is some sound, logical, reasonable, expert advice. And I think she would listen. So - I''m thinking on my feet here - could WE do it? Could we arrive at a concensus & provide some calm, thoughtful feedback? How about something basic to start with - something like a match report a la Ricardo with proper player assessments - we could vote on the best one & submit it to the club.There are some bright people on here whose ideas might be helpful &, if correctly presented, would be listened to.We''re all in this together.

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[quote user="Grim Roeder"]

[quote user="Andy Larkin"]Why is it, when you take the time to construct a robust and well-thought out response to an equally robust but maybe not so well-thought-out post (in my opinion obviously, otherwise I would be in agreement wouldn''t I?), do people just stop responding?There''s loads of carp thrown around on here by some "right rum buggers" as my granfa''r would say, but when you try and engage them in reasoned debate, they simply melt away. Is it because they don''t have the wit nor substance to back up their arguments? Or have they been called downstairs for their tea?There are some people that frequent this MB that I have quite differing views from - and I respect them for that - but they still manage to rise above the name-calling (Mr Carrow I seem to remember engaged in quite a reasoned debate, although I am sure that plenty will disagree) but others shout really loudly, rise a right old commotion and then bugger off when challenged.If they approached a discussion in the same way in the Coach or The Kings Arms or wherever (insert your own watering hole here) before or after a game, they would most likely get a poke on the snout, which means of course, that they wouldn''t actually behave as they do on here if they became engaged in said discussion… yet on here they can call people a binner / Percy / Nancy / board-in''r / board out''r without so much as a tuppence of care for the outcome.It''s little wonder that the barricades aren''t being stormed… because there isn''t really anyone with the balls or gumption to set about it!Sirs, I lay before you a gauntlet… I would be honoured if someone would have the good grace to pick it up and smite my knavish cheek with it… figuratively speaking of course!It''s a simple question… requiring an adult and simple answer.OK - assuming that Big Pete doesn''t (A) deem us worthy (B) have the money or (C) have the guts for the fight etc (delete as you see fit)… what is YOUR solution to this most horrible impasse which we find ourselves rubbing up against?I welcome storming the barricade type posts, but only if you have used your grey matter to think it through and past the pyrrhic victory stage!This is a post from someone who has done that before, who won''t be doing it again, is fuc*ed right royally off with our plight and would love to hear some good old "blue-sky" thinking about how we progress without BOTH Delia and Co. and The Maidstone Miser.Thanking you for your time in advance (those that can read that is)[/quote]

What you do in your personal time........

Seriously though, I''m not sure your simple question was simple enough

[/quote]The simple question was below… however, using a Mac and Firefox, I don''t seem to have the html abilities that you have. The gauntlet bit was just thta, thrown down, with a challenge that followed.

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[quote user="ron obvious"]Of late, some sort of idea has been forming in my mind .... I reckon the majority (not everybody) would agree the following:the club is in trouble there are insufficient funds to pay top-class loanees/attract top-class loaneesGunn is an inexperienced managerthe majority shareholders are genuine fansthe majority shareholders are extremely worried; I Googled Delia''s net worth & it seems to be approx. £13m, which means an awfully high percentage of her money is tied up in the club.The arrival of any purchaser with more commitment to the club than the present incumbents is extremely unlikely.The net result is that BOTH the club & the (effective) owners need as much help as they can get. They are stuck with each other & we are stuck with them. So, if we can help Delia, we can help NCFC.I think she is receptive to fans'' input, but accusations of being a closet Binner, only in it for the money etc etc. will only harden her heart. Ranting at someone who doesn''t have to listen is seldom productive.What she really, desperately needs is some sound, logical, reasonable, expert advice. And I think she would listen. So - I''m thinking on my feet here - could WE do it? Could we arrive at a concensus & provide some calm, thoughtful feedback? How about something basic to start with - something like a match report a la Ricardo with proper player assessments - we could vote on the best one & submit it to the club.There are some bright people on here whose ideas might be helpful &, if correctly presented, would be listened to.We''re all in this together.

[/quote]Cheers Ron… thats exactly the sort of thing I meant

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[quote user="Grim Roeder"]

What you do in your personal time........

Seriously though, I''m not sure your simple question was simple enough

[/quote]Sorry… just read it again… me, I do the same as Roger Munby only much better!

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Andy you are appearing on several threads today all with the same theme.I agree with most.

Realism states that we want the present board gone BUT there is no one to replace them waiting in the wings.

With Bob Chase there was DS who had already instigated the "takeover" engineered by Barclays with GW assistance.(fact).

The rabble rousers don''t seem to care, get her out SOMEONE will turn up. Yes just like my lottery ticket when I need it!!

DS will only go, however much pressure is applied WHEN she is ready and some money in hand.

They don''t have to attend matches or for that matter even live near enough to matter. (Bob did)

Demonstrations will happen and I am sure things could turn very ugly,but as you say who in the end gets hurt the most.

Are you going Thursday Night?

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I am Mr Butler. I shall pay my pound (or three, if Smudger leaves an NCISA intact by the end of the night). And sorry for appearing left, right and centre, but I''m trying very hard to get some reasoned and well thought out debate going about other ways forward… some are picking up on the idea and its good to see. I''ve just had a gutful of all the mindless mud-slinging which will go on ad infinitum lest somebody tries something

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[quote user="Andy Larkin"]I am Mr Butler. I shall pay my pound (or three, if Smudger leaves an NCISA intact by the end of the night).

 And sorry for appearing left, right and centre, but I''m trying very hard to get some reasoned and well thought out debate going about other ways forward… some are picking up on the idea and its good to see. I''ve just had a gutful of all the mindless mud-slinging which will go on ad infinitum lest somebody tries something
[/quote]

No complaint Andy. You can stick me down to help if I can.

Hated what happened in the end to Chase (he had to go) but watching the devious way it was done meant I have never liked the present majority shareholders.

We would have been better off keeping Gordon Bennet as chief Exec. The best we have had for many a year! Football man through and through.

 

 

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[quote user="Andy Larkin"]Why is it, when you take the time to construct a robust and well-thought out response to an equally robust but maybe not so well-thought-out post (in my opinion obviously, otherwise I would be in agreement wouldn''t I?), do people just stop responding?

There''s loads of carp thrown around on here by some "right rum buggers" as my granfa''r would say, but when you try and engage them in reasoned debate, they simply melt away. Is it because they don''t have the wit nor substance to back up their arguments? Or have they been called downstairs for their tea?

There are some people that frequent this MB that I have quite differing views from - and I respect them for that - but they still manage to rise above the name-calling (Mr Carrow I seem to remember engaged in quite a reasoned debate, although I am sure that plenty will disagree) but others shout really loudly, rise a right old commotion and then bugger off when challenged.

If they approached a discussion in the same way in the Coach or The Kings Arms or wherever (insert your own watering hole here) before or after a game, they would most likely get a poke on the snout, which means of course, that they wouldn''t actually behave as they do on here if they became engaged in said discussion… yet on here they can call people a binner / Percy / Nancy / board-in''r / board out''r without so much as a tuppence of care for the outcome.

It''s little wonder that the barricades aren''t being stormed… because there isn''t really anyone with the balls or gumption to set about it!

Sirs, I lay before you a gauntlet… I would be honoured if someone would have the good grace to pick it up and smite my knavish cheek with it… figuratively speaking of course!

It''s a simple question… requiring an adult and simple answer.

OK - assuming that Big Pete doesn''t (A) deem us worthy (B) have the money or (C) have the guts for the fight etc (delete as you see fit)… what is YOUR solution to this most horrible impasse which we find ourselves rubbing up against?

I welcome storming the barricade type posts, but only if you have used your grey matter to think it through and past the pyrrhic victory stage!

This is a post from someone who has done that before, who won''t be doing it again, is fuc*ed right royally off with our plight and would love to hear some good old "blue-sky" thinking about how we progress without BOTH Delia and Co. and The Maidstone Miser.

Thanking you for your time in advance (those that can read that is)
[/quote]

In a recession - which some economists gloomily claim is in fact a Depression likely to last for years - that hasn''t even begun yet I would have thought the last thing you want is instability in your club.  I simply think that if you really want to get a new Board you have to have their replacements ready assembled complete with their Bank Guarantees (assets, loans etc) and today you need people with many millions, not just a million or two.    It would be commercial suicide to take any other approach, in my opinion.

Online petitions can make feelings known and I suspect enable disgruntled supporters to let off steam - just as internet forums have replaced rows in the pub/terraces in ages before - but I doubt they achieve little else.  I don''t think there is a cat''s chance in hell of Delia walking unless someone comes in with a decent offer for the whole caboodle because I believe she does care about the club but, as many have commented, is in today''s world under resourced - although so are other clubs in your Division and far more deeply in debt than you and some probably also with huge unpaid tax bills.  But you cannot afford - even if it were achievable - to be left without Directors in place unless you want your creditors to move in. 

Who knows about Cullum in the future?  Even if he is waiting in the wings to pick you up on the cheap he''ll still have to pick up the debts and then renegotiate them and he''s having enough trouble doing that with Towergate at the moment.  But what would have worried me about his original statement last year was the inference that it was £20m and that''s it as it were.  "I am no Abramovich," I think he said and he added he would not continue to pour millions into the bottomless pit.  So if you like it was a sh it or bust approach - fine if it works, financially disastrous if it does not (see under Watford, currently, who paid most of their lot Premiership wages last season in the very same sh it or bust approach and now have bugger all and bugger all prospects and may well go bust). 

As for the Chase-type demo''s I don''t see that as the way to go.  You may or may not provoke police horses this time but you will almost certainly provoke a different, modern style of policing with the full riot gear, the head video cameras to identify, and armed with the latest instruction from ACPO/Home Office that only to bother with assault on an officer or a grievous bodily harm offence but to go for an ASBO and a Football Banning Order on everybody else. 

Relegation is very painful if it happens but it''s not certain yet in your case.  But if it does happen I think you really just have to take it on the chin.  I think I first met the great Norwich City in the Third Division (South) and if I remember correctly you went 3-0 up in twenty minutes and we drew 3-3 so presumably there were some defensive lapses even in those days.

Society has changed vastly in my lifetime and I don''t think the authorities are tolerant of football demonstrations of any sort today - they are all most proud of having "stamped this out" and will, I believe, come down on you like a ton of bricks.  So, too, may the Football League: pitch invasions will almost certainly lead to a charge of "failing to control spectators".  Luton fans are planning anti FA protests at their Cup Final visit to Wembley - all of their message boards carefully monitored by Pc Plod as would this be (complete with real names provided) should their be hints of organised violence.  Ironically, if they go ahead they might begin next season in the Blue Square conference with yet another points deduction which, while being a very good story, is probably hardly helpful to the club overall.

Not a word of this in any way undermines many views on here that the Directors have made bad mistakes, wrong decisions, been too prudent etc etc but really, in my view, all the Delia Out stuff while very satisfying to express is really piddling in the wind unless you have substantial people waiting to come in to do a deal with them (hard, if you like) but with the actual back up financially to pull it off. 

Colchester went down last year not because they couldn''t score goals (they scored more than you did) but because they had arguably the worst defence I''ve seen in 30 years - too much easy going management, disinterested players.  And now FFS Darlington have gone bust and sent our bleedin useless goalkeeper back just when I thought he was set for a new career in his real home, Division Two.[+o(]

On players - another aside - I''m afraid that being a very old cynic I don''t buy into any of this "bleeding the colours" nonsense.  Those days are very long gone when a player spent a substantial - in some cases, total - career at one club.  There will always be a few exceptions but that''s what they are - a few.  Like me they are a hired hand - or in the case of the Press, a hired whore - but hired nonetheless and they will accordingly "bleed" into the local Press to wherever they are next hired. 

And long may it remain so, at least for the local Press.  Cue: "Doomcaster Rovers new striker issued a promise to beleaguered supporters last night: "Trust me, I''ve come here to score goals." [:|]

He pledged: "The minute the gaffer showed me round and I saw the wonderful facilities I knew wherever it is was the place for me."

(Some of these welcome pieces, by the way, are written by the Agent  just in case the player says the wrong thing, no names no pack drill).

I think if you want a Board Out it''s a very good idea to have another board lined up in advance to be the Board In but these days they want all the Guarantees in writing not just dear old Smudge pledging 10 per cent of his A4 Letterhead orders.    But that''s just me and apart from two seasons in the Championship a very Third and Fourth Division (and twice Conference) chap.

You''ve still eleven games to play and others around the same so Daisy may still pull it off, as they used to say.

 

Tomorrow night, by the way you are going to one of the few places in Britain where the old folk have just a few happy memories of Glenn Roeder but only as a player.

Any bidders?

 

https://www.specialistauctions.com/auctiondetails.php?id=1130211

He looks almost human without the glasses. 

But £1.25p and no bidders currently.

No bidders?  That''s where we came in I think.

Funny old game, football.

Let''s see if you can nick it tomorrow night.  They aren''t that wonderful.  Good luck, anyway.

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[quote user="Camuldonum"]

[quote user="Andy Larkin"]Why is it, when you take the time to construct a robust and well-thought out response to an equally robust but maybe not so well-thought-out post (in my opinion obviously, otherwise I would be in agreement wouldn''t I?), do people just stop responding?

There''s loads of carp thrown around on here by some "right rum buggers" as my granfa''r would say, but when you try and engage them in reasoned debate, they simply melt away. Is it because they don''t have the wit nor substance to back up their arguments? Or have they been called downstairs for their tea?

There are some people that frequent this MB that I have quite differing views from - and I respect them for that - but they still manage to rise above the name-calling (Mr Carrow I seem to remember engaged in quite a reasoned debate, although I am sure that plenty will disagree) but others shout really loudly, rise a right old commotion and then bugger off when challenged.

If they approached a discussion in the same way in the Coach or The Kings Arms or wherever (insert your own watering hole here) before or after a game, they would most likely get a poke on the snout, which means of course, that they wouldn''t actually behave as they do on here if they became engaged in said discussion… yet on here they can call people a binner / Percy / Nancy / board-in''r / board out''r without so much as a tuppence of care for the outcome.

It''s little wonder that the barricades aren''t being stormed… because there isn''t really anyone with the balls or gumption to set about it!

Sirs, I lay before you a gauntlet… I would be honoured if someone would have the good grace to pick it up and smite my knavish cheek with it… figuratively speaking of course!

It''s a simple question… requiring an adult and simple answer.

OK - assuming that Big Pete doesn''t (A) deem us worthy (B) have the money or (C) have the guts for the fight etc (delete as you see fit)… what is YOUR solution to this most horrible impasse which we find ourselves rubbing up against?

I welcome storming the barricade type posts, but only if you have used your grey matter to think it through and past the pyrrhic victory stage!

This is a post from someone who has done that before, who won''t be doing it again, is fuc*ed right royally off with our plight and would love to hear some good old "blue-sky" thinking about how we progress without BOTH Delia and Co. and The Maidstone Miser.

Thanking you for your time in advance (those that can read that is)
[/quote]

In a recession - which some economists gloomily claim is in fact a Depression likely to last for years - that hasn''t even begun yet I would have thought the last thing you want is instability in your club.  I simply think that if you really want to get a new Board you have to have their replacements ready assembled complete with their Bank Guarantees (assets, loans etc) and today you need people with many millions, not just a million or two.    It would be commercial suicide to take any other approach, in my opinion.

Online petitions can make feelings known and I suspect enable disgruntled supporters to let off steam - just as internet forums have replaced rows in the pub/terraces in ages before - but I doubt they achieve little else.  I don''t think there is a cat''s chance in hell of Delia walking unless someone comes in with a decent offer for the whole caboodle because I believe she does care about the club but, as many have commented, is in today''s world under resourced - although so are other clubs in your Division and far more deeply in debt than you and some probably also with huge unpaid tax bills.  But you cannot afford - even if it were achievable - to be left without Directors in place unless you want your creditors to move in. 

Who knows about Cullum in the future?  Even if he is waiting in the wings to pick you up on the cheap he''ll still have to pick up the debts and then renegotiate them and he''s having enough trouble doing that with Towergate at the moment.  But what would have worried me about his original statement last year was the inference that it was £20m and that''s it as it were.  "I am no Abramovich," I think he said and he added he would not continue to pour millions into the bottomless pit.  So if you like it was a sh it or bust approach - fine if it works, financially disastrous if it does not (see under Watford, currently, who paid most of their lot Premiership wages last season in the very same sh it or bust approach and now have bugger all and bugger all prospects and may well go bust). 

As for the Chase-type demo''s I don''t see that as the way to go.  You may or may not provoke police horses this time but you will almost certainly provoke a different, modern style of policing with the full riot gear, the head video cameras to identify, and armed with the latest instruction from ACPO/Home Office that only to bother with assault on an officer or a grievous bodily harm offence but to go for an ASBO and a Football Banning Order on everybody else. 

Relegation is very painful if it happens but it''s not certain yet in your case.  But if it does happen I think you really just have to take it on the chin.  I think I first met the great Norwich City in the Third Division (South) and if I remember correctly you went 3-0 up in twenty minutes and we drew 3-3 so presumably there were some defensive lapses even in those days.

Society has changed vastly in my lifetime and I don''t think the authorities are tolerant of football demonstrations of any sort today - they are all most proud of having "stamped this out" and will, I believe, come down on you like a ton of bricks.  So, too, may the Football League: pitch invasions will almost certainly lead to a charge of "failing to control spectators".  Luton fans are planning anti FA protests at their Cup Final visit to Wembley - all of their message boards carefully monitored by Pc Plod as would this be (complete with real names provided) should their be hints of organised violence.  Ironically, if they go ahead they might begin next season in the Blue Square conference with yet another points deduction which, while being a very good story, is probably hardly helpful to the club overall.

Not a word of this in any way undermines many views on here that the Directors have made bad mistakes, wrong decisions, been too prudent etc etc but really, in my view, all the Delia Out stuff while very satisfying to express is really piddling in the wind unless you have substantial people waiting to come in to do a deal with them (hard, if you like) but with the actual back up financially to pull it off. 

Colchester went down last year not because they couldn''t score goals (they scored more than you did) but because they had arguably the worst defence I''ve seen in 30 years - too much easy going management, disinterested players.  And now FFS Darlington have gone bust and sent our bleedin useless goalkeeper back just when I thought he was set for a new career in his real home, Division Two.[+o(]

On players - another aside - I''m afraid that being a very old cynic I don''t buy into any of this "bleeding the colours" nonsense.  Those days are very long gone when a player spent a substantial - in some cases, total - career at one club.  There will always be a few exceptions but that''s what they are - a few.  Like me they are a hired hand - or in the case of the Press, a hired whore - but hired nonetheless and they will accordingly "bleed" into the local Press to wherever they are next hired. 

And long may it remain so, at least for the local Press.  Cue: "Doomcaster Rovers new striker issued a promise to beleaguered supporters last night: "Trust me, I''ve come here to score goals." [:|]

He pledged: "The minute the gaffer showed me round and I saw the wonderful facilities I knew wherever it is was the place for me."

(Some of these welcome pieces, by the way, are written by the Agent  just in case the player says the wrong thing, no names no pack drill).

I think if you want a Board Out it''s a very good idea to have another board lined up in advance to be the Board In but these days they want all the Guarantees in writing not just dear old Smudge pledging 10 per cent of his A4 Letterhead orders.    But that''s just me and apart from two seasons in the Championship a very Third and Fourth Division (and twice Conference) chap.

You''ve still eleven games to play and others around the same so Daisy may still pull it off, as they used to say.

 

Tomorrow night, by the way you are going to one of the few places in Britain where the old folk have just a few happy memories of Glenn Roeder but only as a player.

Any bidders?

https://www.specialistauctions.com/auctiondetails.php?id=1130211

He looks almost human without the glasses. 

But £1.25p and no bidders currently.

No bidders?  That''s where we came in I think.

Funny old game, football.

Let''s see if you can nick it tomorrow night.  They aren''t that wonderful.  Good luck, anyway.

[/quote]

Sorry Cam... I fell asleep... [|-)]

You really should get a job writing for the Readers Digest!!!

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Owning Carrow Rd.and Colney does not really help us and if in these trouled times we could find a speculator to buy and leaseback the ground for the extent(or more) of our debts. Once debt free there would be no interest payments only rent and whilst it would reduce the asset and share value of the club it would make it much easier for a potential buyer to buy out the majority shareholders and all gate and catering income could be spent on the football side of things.

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Of course you fell asleep.  You are in the printing trade.  Artisans of their sort, in days gone by, but not noticed for their attention span, hence the need for the proof readers.

 

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Andy, I like your thread and, while I normally like to employ the grey cells, I do hope you will forgive me on this occasion for giving a light-hearted response to your question at this precarious time.

Much criticism has been directed at "Delia''s little Norwich" approach over recent seasons. Many have continually beaten the drum that the cook ( along with the rest of the board ) must go. The fact is they have not gone and neither has anyone of substance come forward with an offer that attractive enough to entice the current majority owners to leave. Various posters can moan, complain and pontificate to their little hearts delight, but what I have stated is the bare-boned simple fact of the matter. None seem to have taken any time to consider encouragement and positive suggestions for Delia. Therefore, I have a suggestion for Delia that not only offers her encouragement but may also be close to her heart.

Let''s make Norwich City known around the world in the future as the cook''s team, but on a larger scale. Delia, on the possibility that you read this forum, I will also address my comments directly to you. Why don''t you network with individuals around the world that have enjoyed success in the same field as yourself? They are celebrity cooks making a goodly sum of money annually ( none of them billionaires of course, but certainly multi-millionaires ). Here in the USA we have a multitude of them, and one that comes to mind, Rachael Ray, has very successfully followed a very similar path as yourself, with syndicated television shows, newspaper colums and books in publication. You will know better than me who some of these individuals are in different countries. So you need to develop a strategy that will appeal to them as investors where, not only will Norwich City FC grow, but their name recognition as individuals will also on a much broader basis. I''ll start you off with an acronym.....COWS....Cooks Of the World Society. Let me suggest the objective is to get about 100 million pounds ( 25 to 50 celebrity cooks ) worth of new investment to support Norwich reaching and sustaining participation in the Premiership during the next three seasons. Even if we were relegated this season the Premiership objective is still achievable. However, once news of this new society hits the press, we may see a performance or two perking up on the pitch for the remainder of this season as some players realise they may want to be with Norwich City in this glorious future, and they start to display talent none of us knew existed.

Delia, I realise this kind of sounds like Pussy Galore and her team of young female trained pilots from the Goldfinger movie, but perhaps you will be highly motivated to bring on board younger versions of yourself, each taking a turn of chairing the Board. Put Mr. Munby and Doncaster out to pasture ( they''re not doing much anyway ) and let''s get started on this new and fresh approach to put Norwich City on the global map in a way that is truly unique. The Asians and many other countries will go wild for you and your team. Implore all posters and fans to get on board and support this approach.

P.S. I recognise that even the thought of such a concept could cause Mello Yello to hyperventilate into a brown paper bag but we all have to sacrifice on some front. 

 

 

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Andy, I like your thread and, while I normally like to employ the grey cells, I do hope you will forgive me on this occasion for giving a light-hearted response to your question at this precarious time.

Much criticism has been directed at "Delia''s little Norwich" approach over recent seasons. Many have continually beaten the drum that the cook ( along with the rest of the board ) must go. The fact is they have not gone and neither has anyone of substance come forward with an offer that attractive enough to entice the current majority owners to leave. Various posters can moan, complain and pontificate to their little hearts delight, but what I have stated is the bare-boned simple fact of the matter. None seem to have taken any time to consider encouragement and positive suggestions for Delia. Therefore, I have a suggestion for Delia that not only offers her encouragement but may also be close to her heart.

Let''s make Norwich City known around the world in the future as the cook''s team, but on a larger scale. Delia, on the possibility that you read this forum, I will also address my comments directly to you. Why don''t you network with individuals around the world that have enjoyed success in the same field as yourself? They are celebrity cooks making a goodly sum of money annually ( none of them billionaires of course, but certainly multi-millionaires ). Here in the USA we have a multitude of them, and one that comes to mind, Rachael Ray, has very successfully followed a very similar path as yourself, with syndicated television shows, newspaper colums and books in publication. You will know better than me who some of these individuals are in different countries. So you need to develop a strategy that will appeal to them as investors where, not only will Norwich City FC grow, but their name recognition as individuals will also on a much broader basis. I''ll start you off with an acronym.....COWS....Cooks Of the World Society. Let me suggest the objective is to get about 100 million pounds ( 25 to 50 celebrity cooks ) worth of new investment to support Norwich reaching and sustaining participation in the Premiership during the next three seasons. Even if we were relegated this season the Premiership objective is still achievable. However, once news of this new society hits the press, we may see a performance or two perking up on the pitch for the remainder of this season as some players realise they may want to be with Norwich City in this glorious future, and they start to display talent none of us knew existed.

Delia, I realise this kind of sounds like Pussy Galore and her team of young female trained pilots from the Goldfinger movie, but perhaps you will be highly motivated to bring on board younger versions of yourself, each taking a turn of chairing the Board. Put Mr. Munby and Doncaster out to pasture ( they''re not doing much anyway ) and let''s get started on this new and fresh approach to put Norwich City on the global map in a way that is truly unique. The Asians and many other countries will go wild for you and your team. Implore all posters and fans to get on board and support this approach.

P.S. I recognise that even the thought of such a concept could cause Mello Yello to hyperventilate into a brown paper bag but we all have to sacrifice on some front. 

[/quote]Pussy Galore!!!!!!!!! ...............My imagination has just gone into overdrive.I''m going for a quiet lie down in a dark room. I may be some time.......

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[quote user="Andy Larkin"]Why is it, when you take the time to construct a robust and well-thought out response to an equally robust but maybe not so well-thought-out post (in my opinion obviously, otherwise I would be in agreement wouldn''t I?), do people just stop responding?

OK - assuming that Big Pete doesn''t (A) deem us worthy (B) have the money or (C) have the guts for the fight etc (delete as you see fit)… what is YOUR solution to this most horrible impasse which we find ourselves rubbing up against?

[/quote]

The obvious place to start is for Delia & Co to lower the asking price.  I seriously doubt whether £56m would ever have attracted a buyer, and it certainly won''t now.

In answer to your first point, a practical suggestion: shorten the length of your posts.  Most people stop reading after about two or three paragraphs.  When I first came on here I used to do the same and wonder why I didn''t get much response, then I realised it was because everyone was asleep . . .[|-)] 

 

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OK, here''s a 10 point plan to try to improve things.

1. Replace Doncaster with a new CEO, preferably one with a business background and in sports management somewhere

2. Dilute the majority shareholders to 24.9% so no individual has overall control as that is dangerous.

3. Gunn was not the answer and while he may yet (if pigs do fly) get us out of this mess we can''t rely on the old cliche of fans'' heroes to make serious progress. An experienced manager needs to be hired in the summer but with the mandate to keep the current backrom (any termination payments would eat into the playing budget)

4. Sort the academy. I don''t know what is going on here but its not producing players at the right level consistently apart from the odd goalie. Maybe it needs a new head running it.

5. Slowly but surely send the loaness back. The likes of Ched Evans and Leroy Lita work but most others don''t offer much more than we already have.

6. Reconstruct the defence. Get rid of the entire lot in one go and bring in a fresher younger back line. We ship stupid goals too often.

7. Bring supporter representation onto the Board to ensure the views of the fans are heard and also offer objective perspective to issues facing the club. This could be a rotating appointment.

8. Sell the interest in the hotel and use the proceeds to strengthen the squad. We need short term cash right now not long term illiquid assets.

9. Add one Safri/Francis/Holt type lung busting midfield tiger to give backbone to the side. Russell was not the answer.

10. Sell Cureton. Time to give Martin another go and also Renton alongside Cort for a bit. Stick Spillane in for Fotheringham.

And here is a bonus one:

11. Get behind Delia. Her businesses do bring in funds to the club, accept there isn''t a mystery benefactor and that any change wouldn''t guarantee success or change in attitude. We need to leverage her contacts and profile positively, as yankee cheekily suggested why not make Carrow Road a mecca for foodies. Cam is right- we don''t need this witch hunt now, the focus needs to be getting competitive again in this league and then we can tackle the issue of Delia and MWJ.

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Potless - you mention posts being too long and therefore unreadable and in the same breath you mention the "£56m price tag" for the Club.

Obviously the posts where people have explained time after time that it was never "£56m" (and how that figure is made up) have been too long for you to read!

;o)

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[quote user="Potless Percy "]

[quote user="Andy Larkin"]Why is it, when you take the time to construct a robust and well-thought out response to an equally robust but maybe not so well-thought-out post (in my opinion obviously, otherwise I would be in agreement wouldn''t I?), do people just stop responding?OK - assuming that Big Pete doesn''t (A) deem us worthy (B) have the money or (C) have the guts for the fight etc (delete as you see fit)… what is YOUR solution to this most horrible impasse which we find ourselves rubbing up against?[/quote]

The obvious place to start is for Delia & Co to lower the asking price.  I seriously doubt whether £56m would ever have attracted a buyer, and it certainly won''t now.

In answer to your first point, a practical suggestion: shorten the length of your posts.  Most people stop reading after about two or three paragraphs.  When I first came on here I used to do the same and wonder why I didn''t get much response, then I realised it was because everyone was asleep . . .[|-)] 

 

[/quote]As you well know, £56m was not an "asking price". The share price came to £16m (which can be argued about). The other £40m was to cover debts (£20m) & Cullum''s promised investment (£20m)Will you please stop trying to imply that Delia was trying to get her hands on £56m to stuff into her piggy bank as she rides off to Ipswich. It is a complete & utter lie.Still, I''m sure if you keep repeating it often enough it will become a "FACT".

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Isn''t it sad that the only real solution that keeps being put forward is ''find an investor''.

Until good old Jack Walker bought Blackburn the Premiership title that was never heard of in the game. The game was about producing your own players or buying wisely to either sell on for a profit or to create a team to win things.

The top clubs in the land, the Premiership clubs, even those near the bottom, now have the game sewn up.

Surely when loans first came in it was to help some of the smaller, poorer clubs who had mounting injury problems and a lack of players of their own. Now it is being used to either a) give fringe players the chance to play first team football so that they can put themselves in the shop window so that the parent club CAN MAKE MORE MONEY or b) to give youngsters the chance of playing in a first team so that they can gain experience so that they can attain the standard their parent club wants or so they can be sold and CAN MAKE MORE MONEY or c) off load players they don''t really want so that somebody else will pick up the wage bill until they become free agents so that they CAN MAKE MORE MONEY or d) buy numerous young foreign players, loan them back to the clubs they buy them from just in case they reach their top potential and become world class players and then they CAN MAKE MORE MONEY!

And while this is all happening the really big clubs are allowed to buy as many players as they like and deny others the opportunity of getting them.

Loaning players is no longer there to help the smaller clubs it is there to help the rich get richer and to keep the poorer clubs (like us) where we are. Gone are the days when fringe, backup or reserve team players from top clubs can be integrated into other teams. Remember Mr. Gunn at Aberdeen or Mr Crook and his other fellow players at Spurs!

So the way forward is to either a) find this wonderful investor (but would you really want Norwich City owned by some South Korean? gentleman?) or b) get football to sort its house out and radically review the loan system, if not ban it all together, and restrict the number of players a club can have registered with them over the age of 21.

This would lead to some very interesting senarios!

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[quote user="Potless Percy "]

In answer to your first point, a practical suggestion: shorten the length of your posts.  Most people stop reading after about two or three paragraphs.  When I first came on here I used to do the same and wonder why I didn''t get much response, then I realised it was because everyone was asleep . . .[|-)] 

[/quote]Well there in lies the problem doesn''t it Mr P? If people really can''t be arsed to read what someone has spent time constructing, so that their point is clearly put and without room for mis-interpretation then the world really has gone to hell in a hand cart.This instant gratification that people seem to need nowadays is the reason we''re in the position we are in… does it really harm them to read a few paragraphs? C''mon, seriously! Or is it maybe they feel unable to contribute because the topic is beyond them (as it seems in this case… most of the warriors are nowhere to be seen… which sort of proves a point really, doesn''t it?)The problem with glib, one or two line answers are that they give you no room to be anything other than, well, glib… which is the complete opposite of what this thread is about!

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Sorry to arrive rather late at this thread, but I''d first like to thank Andy for an excellent and thought provoking post. There are times when I feel that I''m trapped in some sort of time warp, with exactly the same arguments, "facts" and preconceptions being recirculated again and again on this board. The only think that gets universal agreement is how low the club has sunk, before everyone goes off in different directions in terms of apportioning blame.

I''m not really sure what we as individuals can do, but I am more than happy to offer whatever help I am able to.

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Andy, i think there are too many variables and unknowns to really know what is unreasonable and what isn`t.  Delia might have decided that Cullum was the "wrong person" and stonewalled him, or Cullum might have refused to give any assurances about the money he intended to invest- we just don`t know (although it wouldn`t it be nice to be told?).  The statement issued at the time suggested "several interested parties", so who is being unreasonable- those who think these interested parties may show their hand if D and M are put under pressure, or those who glibly state "no-one else wants to take over"?  Essentially, it`s a bit of a free-for-all and whilst that is obviously frustrating i think we all have to accept that most of us haven`t got an awful lot to back our opinions up.

Butler states that Chase`s removal was engineered by Delia.  I know nothing about this, but if true, who knew about it at the time?  I distinctly remember being told whilst demonstrating against Chase "no-one wants to take over so shut your mouth and support the team" plenty of times.  Butler, do you (or anyone else) know catagorically that something similar isn`t going on behind the scenes now?

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[quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Potless Percy "]

[quote user="Andy Larkin"]Why is it, when you take the time to construct a robust and well-thought out response to an equally robust but maybe not so well-thought-out post (in my opinion obviously, otherwise I would be in agreement wouldn''t I?), do people just stop responding?

OK - assuming that Big Pete doesn''t (A) deem us worthy (B) have the money or (C) have the guts for the fight etc (delete as you see fit)… what is YOUR solution to this most horrible impasse which we find ourselves rubbing up against?

[/quote]

The obvious place to start is for Delia & Co to lower the asking price.  I seriously doubt whether £56m would ever have attracted a buyer, and it certainly won''t now.

In answer to your first point, a practical suggestion: shorten the length of your posts.  Most people stop reading after about two or three paragraphs.  When I first came on here I used to do the same and wonder why I didn''t get much response, then I realised it was because everyone was asleep . . .[|-)] 

 

[/quote]

As you well know, £56m was not an "asking price".
 The share price came to £16m (which can be argued about). The other £40m was to cover debts (£20m) & Cullum''s promised investment (£20m)

Will you please stop trying to imply that Delia was trying to get her hands on £56m to stuff into her piggy bank as she rides off to Ipswich. It is a complete & utter lie.

Still, I''m sure if you keep repeating it often enough it will become a "FACT".


[/quote]

I wasn''t trying to imply anything of the sort and nor have I ever done so.  I know perfectly well how the £56m was broken down and that it was not all destined for Delia''s bank account, I''m not that stupid.  But the £56m "bill" issued the day after Cullum''s £20m proposal was presumably intended to indicate how much it would cost to buy into the club.  It was the publicly quoted asking price.  

A football club is no different from any other commodity.  The price is determined by how much the owner wants to sell it and how much the buyer is willing or able to pay. 

btw I have no idea if or when Delia has ever had any interest in Ipswich town and neither do I care, you''re confusing me with someone else.  Or do all the people who are calling for her to sell up merge in you mind into a single hydra headed monster?  Get a grip for heaven''s sake.

 

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Andy

Thanks for this.  I will try to be pragmatic and not inflammatory.  However given where we are the answer to your question is not simple (it was never a simple question anyway) and it will take now at least two seasons to to get back to challenging again in the Championship.  However the main issue is new blood required on the Board, someone who will not be a yes person!  An introduction of new money may also be a long way off, but spending the money we currently generate more wisely would be a start.

I mentioned on one of the other threads like this in the past, that what Delia was trying to do with the introduction of the Turner''s was a good thing and it was a shame that the credit crunch obviously hit the Turners harder than anyone realised at the time, and thus their appetite for the challenging role on the Board was diverted back into running their own business.  We need to see this idea re-visited.

Given her sensitivities about selling out to certain people, the idea of her selling out is not going to be an immediate pancea, and I would encourage her (as Yankee has said) to fnd a younger version of herself and Michael to join her on the Board, with or without investment.  I also think trying to find a buyer through an appointed agent will trawl up nothing at the moment - a club about to go into League 1 is well down the list of priorities at the moment - so pointless thinking this will solve the situation. 

The Board definitely needs a new lease of life, although it is too late for this season.  I think it a huge mistake that Doncaster was added to the Board without the appointment of others to the Board.  The main reason was to ensure an easy life was not given to him and to Munby.  The Board is now incredibly unbalanced with no-one able to give a blaanced alternative view to the majority shareholders (as demonstrated at the AGM!).   However in exile up here, I have no idea who the up and coming businessmen (and it does need someone who is hardened by the real world of business) in Norwich might be now.  Surely not everyone with any sense of drive, cash and enthusiasm for the club is going to rub Delia up the wrong way.  I hope she has it in her to spread the load of the board wider - do any posters on here think there is actually someone of this ilk around at present?  For example after a similar five hiatus where the majoirty shareholder was incredibly hated by the majoirty of their fans, Sheff Wed have just found someone a youngish entrepreneur who hasn''t invested any cash, but in the two months he''s been made chairman of their Board, they have gone from relegation candidates to play-off contenders.  Surely there must be someone in Norwich with a similar appetite and background.

If there isn''t such a candidate then I struggle to see any way out of this other than Smith & Jones handing the club over to some kind of Trust.  This wouldn''t necessarily be a long term thing (it hasn''t been succesful as a long term solution anywhere yet), but it might take a lot of the emotion out of future dealings and finding a suitable new owner.  However the Plc nature of the current business probably precludes this and being a minority shareholder I wouldn''t want to lose what little say I have so the Sheff Wednesday way is appealing to me!

Otherwise we might have to get used to many seasons in the bottom half of the league!

Of course if the team actually started playing like most commentators think they should do this might become academic.  But that is one solution that won''t be happening.

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A great thread started off by Andy, who gave a great account of himself at the AGM for those who witnessed it.

There are some great ideas amongst contributors and I am sure some of them could be taken up right now. Trouble is, as Shefcanary has pointed out, the board is unbalanced. We have Delia and Michael and Mr Foulger - the other two are employees who have been appointed and have invested next to nothing in monetary value, and quite frankly their business plan is in tatters. They could go tomorrow if Delia decided to act.

I applaud the suggestion for a business brain on board, whether he/she has millions to invest, if they are up to the job it could be millions saved. from our current plight alone. The Football Trust hold a large number of shares, maybe they could come up with some names or have a seat on the board representing fan interest. As Tumbleweed says, a fan sitting in could be done in rotation and democratically voted on and off at the AGM.

Is there any consideration for widening the shareholding? Like many companies who share their profits with staff, could a system be worked out where fans could buy shares along with season tickets for example. This would give the present shareholding a much wider focus and bring on board a much wider mix of the whole fanbase - which apart from the majority duo - is made up from hundreds of fans who hold say 10 shares each. Cannot more be issued. Yes it''s not the time to splash the cash in a big way but I am sure some fans would love to own shares as part of their season ticket package for example. We really do need to dilute the % of shares held by one or two people. At present the club is owned in effect by two people and what they want goes. End of.

I personally would like to see not only a business man (with relevant experience in the sporting field perhaps) but some sort of coherent plan and approach for the way forward. Tumbleweed brings up many issues and ideas on his post.

Investment is much wanted, but even the amount we still have and the debt we have could be better managed. Trouble is the people in charge at the moment act as if they are untouchable and unless Delia wants to change the way the club is run, Mr Doncaster can carry on regardless.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Andy, i think there are too many variables and unknowns to really know what is unreasonable and what isn`t.  Delia might have decided that Cullum was the "wrong person" and stonewalled him, or Cullum might have refused to give any assurances about the money he intended to invest- we just don`t know (although it wouldn`t it be nice to be told?).  The statement issued at the time suggested "several interested parties", so who is being unreasonable- those who think these interested parties may show their hand if D and M are put under pressure, or those who glibly state "no-one else wants to take over"?  Essentially, it`s a bit of a free-for-all and whilst that is obviously frustrating i think we all have to accept that most of us haven`t got an awful lot to back our opinions up.

Butler states that Chase`s removal was engineered by Delia.  I know nothing about this, but if true, who knew about it at the time?  I distinctly remember being told whilst demonstrating against Chase "no-one wants to take over so shut your mouth and support the team" plenty of times.  Butler, do you (or anyone else) know catagorically that something similar isn`t going on behind the scenes now?

[/quote]

Any chance of a response Butler?

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