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BlyBlyBabes

Recession, quantitative easing & a NCFC Vision25 Project

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The UK is in a (probably deep) recession with real fears of the situation developing into a full-blown depression.

The first order of key countries worldwide has been to try and sort out the banking systems to ring fence toxic debt and then get them lending again.

In the UK the next step is quantitative easing or the ''printing of money'' to pump prime the economy.

What is needed within the ambit of the increased public spending implicit within a policy quantitative easing is the identification of significant  capital projects which will pump prime the domestic (& in our case local) economy, creating sorely needed short/mid-term jobs and valuable long-term infrastucture.

THE NCFC VISION25 PROJECT

Element  #1 

NCFC to persuade Norfolk County Council to construct a state-of-the-art,''several-sports'' Community Stadium for Norfolk (or East Anglia?) complete with multi-sports training infrastuctures in return for (i) a long-term, exclusive lease with NCFC for the football facilities (match day & training) and (ii) an English Football Association (FA) commitment to use the new stadium as a venue for the 2018 World Cup.

Element #2

NCFC to sell the Carrow Road and Colney sites for housing (and infrastructure?) developments which would be lubricated by central & local governments as a further project to be undertaken within the policy of quantitative easing and long-term community investment.

Element #3

NCFC to establish a club membership, community ownership system (utilising the Barcelona experience, for example), and lease the football operations to a ''football management company'' on a results-driven, profit-oriented basis for renewable contract periods (2, 5, 10 years?, say).

Element #4

The proceeds from the sale of  Carrow Road and Colney to contribute to the resources needed to finance a 5-year plan to establish NCFC in a sustainable manner as a Premiership level club.

Element #5 

The revamped, membership-owned NCFC to enter into financial, community partnership agreements with interested ''local'' investors such as Robert Chase, Delia Smith and Peter Cullum etc.

Element #6

Consideration of a 25 year vision for NCFC, Norwich and Norfolk (a timeframe taking us way beyond the current recession) may encompass thoughts of a burgeoning regional economy bolstered by, for example, (a) planned population growth, (b) the potential of the new Great Yarmouth Eastport as our eastern gateway to Europe for both goods and people and its likely regional impact, and (c) reasonable expectations of improved (especially faster) road and rail links with, in particular, London & the Midlands. 

WHAT WE NEED IS CREATIVE, REALISTIC, LONG-TERM, OUT-OF-THE-BOX THINKING TO EXTRICATE OUR CLUB FROM THE PICKLE THAT WE NOW FIND OURSELVES IN.

OUTLINED ABOVE IS MY HUMBLE, INITIAL, OUTLINE ATTEMPT TO GENERATE A CALM, CREATIVE DEBATE AMONGST NCFC FANS ON THE WAY FORWARD.

One love.

OTBC 

Copyright of this original idea resides with the owner of the forum name BlyBlyBabes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Good thinking, maybe a little too ambitious and pushing the envelope for Norridge.

What other sports would use the facility and how does this impact on football?

Once the initial phase has passed, where would significant investment come from for the stars to maintain City as a successful Premiership club?

The new development at Carrow Rd would need low cost social housing to figure prominantly and that would surely affect the amount of money available

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Or you could go against Keynes and go for the Austrian approach letting the recession purge the economy of excess credit and bubbles.Who needs 350,000 apartments in Norwich, 30 quid + football tickets, and players on 10k+ per week with the customers on the same wages as before.Nobody this recession is a good thing it may not feel like it but it is.I believe that working > paying tax > government takes tax > spends it on themselves > gives it back to me though projects/tax credits is just a load of rubbish why not simply let me keep my money.Just cut taxes and let BTL speculators go bankrupt.It costs 13k just to exisit in the UK and the average wage in Norfolk is circa 19,000 we have created a place where for a lot of people it is better to claim than to work.Take 10 peopleRemove the kids under 14 18%  (leaves you 8.2 people)Remove the old over 65 16%      (leaves you 6.6 people)Remove the unemployed 6.3%   (leaves you 5.97 people)Remove those working for government 30%? (leaves you 2.97 people)Our problem is that those 2- 4 people working hold up all the others and this logically means that we spend more as a country then we make.I would be lovely for us all to be given a nice government job etc etc but the reality is that with too many claiming and too many working in country hall some time now or in the future the house of cards will collapse.Our government let us rack up debts as we would then have more money from house inflation than actual tax ravaged wages.I love Norwich city I support them however I do not want my tax spent on giving them money they are a private company.  If norwich sold a player for 30 million would I get the money.... no.  If norwich where in the champoins league would the ticket prices go lowever to reward the fans....... no.Lest us forget our councils have loads of money and invested it in Iceland ffsIf norwich where going to cease to exisit I would support an ebbsfleet scenario where the fans own the club with maybe the council owning the ground and renting it back (never bought)In any case letting the idiots who got us into this mess spend us out of it is not an option Mr Brown had multiple warnings from the IMF over the UK economy and then he turns around and tells us we need overall oversight??????Have a read of this

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Nope actually,I managed to save a  good wedge whilst working self employed and now wait for the storm to blow over.Ironically I find myself in an ok position due to houses being just so expensive.I sold our house and then wanted to by one with just one extra bedroom = 150,000£ on top of the money from the sold house (200,000)Now I freelance a bit and I am oh so grateful that I didn''t put my young family in so much debt, even my parents where trying to force me to extend to get this 350k + house.I have been made redundant twice before so I know the ropes but if an idiot like me can feel somthing is wrong in 2006/7 then when have those in charge been up to.Consider this your on 30k a good job in Norwich for most, then after tax this is 1800 or so you then have to rent a place which is 550-850 you then have your council tax etc which is another 100+ a month.  If you have Kids like me then you know the bills then shoot up  even more.I think its a mistake to just assume spending money is going to help us as this will have to be paid sometime down the line in even higher taxes.Also remember the QE means money creation which logically should lead to further inflation in imported items (food most notibly)Money needs to be available for those who are in need not for more white elephant projects.

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Element  #1 

NCFC to persuade Norfolk County Council to construct a state-of-the-art,''several-sports'' Community Stadium for Norfolk (or East Anglia?) complete with multi-sports training infrastuctures in return for (i) a long-term, exclusive lease with NCFC for the football facilities (match day & training) and (ii) an English Football Association (FA) commitment to use the new stadium as a venue for the 2018 World Cup.

Element #2

NCFC to sell the Carrow Road and Colney sites for housing (and infrastructure?) developments which would be lubricated by central & local governments as a further project to be undertaken within the policy of quantitative easing and long-term community investment.

Element #3

NCFC to establish a club membership, community ownership system (utilising the Barcelona experience, for example), and lease the football operations to a ''football management company'' on a results-driven, profit-oriented basis for renewable contract periods (2, 5, 10 years?, say).

Element #4

The proceeds from the sale of  Carrow Road and Colney to contribute to the resources needed to finance a 5-year plan to establish NCFC in a sustainable manner as a Premiership level club.

Element #5 

The revamped, membership-owned NCFC to enter into financial, community partnership agreements with interested ''local'' investors such as Robert Chase, Delia Smith and Peter Cullum etc.

Element #6

Consideration of a 25 year vision for NCFC, Norwich and Norfolk (a timeframe taking us way beyond the current recession) may encompass thoughts of a burgeoning regional economy bolstered by, for example, (a) planned population growth, (b) the potential of the new Great Yarmouth Eastport as our eastern gateway to Europe for both goods and people and its likely regional impact, and (c) reasonable expectations of improved (especially faster) road and rail links with, in particular, London & the Midlands. 

WHAT WE NEED IS CREATIVE, REALISTIC, LONG-TERM, OUT-OF-THE-BOX THINKING TO EXTRICATE OUR CLUB FROM THE PICKLE THAT WE NOW FIND OURSELVES IN.

OUTLINED ABOVE IS MY HUMBLE, INITIAL, OUTLINE ATTEMPT TO GENERATE A CALM, CREATIVE DEBATE AMONGST NCFC FANS ON THE WAY FORWARD.

One love.

OTBC 

Copyright of this original idea resides with the owner of the forum name BlyBlyBabes.

[/quote]

Or we could just build one big white elephant, fill it with taxpayers'' 50 pound notes and then throw it in the sea.

1 - We already have the UEA Sportspark.

   Could Norwich (Football club & Council) & Norfolk justify a 40000+ stadium, needed for a World Cup venue (which we haven''t even won yet). Possibly yes, possibly no. Crowds settling at about 25k

2 - You said it yourself. We''er (well, "you''re" as I live in Austria) in a deep recession. No one''s buying the houses out near the Longwater Sainsbury'' so who''s going to buy any futuer houses built on Carrow Road?

   Carrow Road has only recently had a new stand built and for many fans Carrow Road is synonymous with NCFC and so, playing at "Broadland Sports Park" or where ever would lose part of the experience that so many feel belongs with the club. 

3 - Don''t know about that.

4 - and How much would the sake of CR generate? 5mil? 10 mil? Even if it were 20mil it wouldn''t guarantee Prem. survival (or even status). Then we''d be left as a football club without a ground of its own.

5 - What would investors get out of a Chamiponship club?

6 - You''re assuming that it will all go to plan.

No, what we need is a quality manager (if Gunn''s that already, then fine) who can make good decisions on & off the pitch. Staff that can produce quality youth team players to either play for the squad or be sold on. A board that can back the manager''s prudent buying & selling. 

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I have thought for a long time that the future of NCFC is away from Carrow Rd to a purpose built out of city complex. Failing that a leaseback arrangement on the present ground.

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Agree with most you say there Fromage, the gaps between housing levels have become unbridgable, so some form of correction was inevitable.  Let''s hope it blows over soon for all our sakes :)...

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[quote user="K Lo"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Element  #1 

NCFC to persuade Norfolk County Council to construct a state-of-the-art,''several-sports'' Community Stadium for Norfolk (or East Anglia?) complete with multi-sports training infrastuctures in return for (i) a long-term, exclusive lease with NCFC for the football facilities (match day & training) and (ii) an English Football Association (FA) commitment to use the new stadium as a venue for the 2018 World Cup.

Element #2

NCFC to sell the Carrow Road and Colney sites for housing (and infrastructure?) developments which would be lubricated by central & local governments as a further project to be undertaken within the policy of quantitative easing and long-term community investment.

Element #3

NCFC to establish a club membership, community ownership system (utilising the Barcelona experience, for example), and lease the football operations to a ''football management company'' on a results-driven, profit-oriented basis for renewable contract periods (2, 5, 10 years?, say).

Element #4

The proceeds from the sale of  Carrow Road and Colney to contribute to the resources needed to finance a 5-year plan to establish NCFC in a sustainable manner as a Premiership level club.

Element #5 

The revamped, membership-owned NCFC to enter into financial, community partnership agreements with interested ''local'' investors such as Robert Chase, Delia Smith and Peter Cullum etc.

Element #6

Consideration of a 25 year vision for NCFC, Norwich and Norfolk (a timeframe taking us way beyond the current recession) may encompass thoughts of a burgeoning regional economy bolstered by, for example, (a) planned population growth, (b) the potential of the new Great Yarmouth Eastport as our eastern gateway to Europe for both goods and people and its likely regional impact, and (c) reasonable expectations of improved (especially faster) road and rail links with, in particular, London & the Midlands. 

WHAT WE NEED IS CREATIVE, REALISTIC, LONG-TERM, OUT-OF-THE-BOX THINKING TO EXTRICATE OUR CLUB FROM THE PICKLE THAT WE NOW FIND OURSELVES IN.

OUTLINED ABOVE IS MY HUMBLE, INITIAL, OUTLINE ATTEMPT TO GENERATE A CALM, CREATIVE DEBATE AMONGST NCFC FANS ON THE WAY FORWARD.

One love.

OTBC 

Copyright of this original idea resides with the owner of the forum name BlyBlyBabes.

[/quote]

Or we could just build one big white elephant, fill it with taxpayers'' 50 pound notes and then throw it in the sea.

1 - We already have the UEA Sportspark.

   Could Norwich (Football club & Council) & Norfolk justify a 40000+ stadium, needed for a World Cup venue (which we haven''t even won yet). Possibly yes, possibly no. Crowds settling at about 25k

2 - You said it yourself. We''er (well, "you''re" as I live in Austria) in a deep recession. No one''s buying the houses out near the Longwater Sainsbury'' so who''s going to buy any futuer houses built on Carrow Road?

   Carrow Road has only recently had a new stand built and for many fans Carrow Road is synonymous with NCFC and so, playing at "Broadland Sports Park" or where ever would lose part of the experience that so many feel belongs with the club. 

3 - Don''t know about that.

4 - and How much would the sake of CR generate? 5mil? 10 mil? Even if it were 20mil it wouldn''t guarantee Prem. survival (or even status). Then we''d be left as a football club without a ground of its own.

5 - What would investors get out of a Chamiponship club?

6 - You''re assuming that it will all go to plan.

No, what we need is a quality manager (if Gunn''s that already, then fine) who can make good decisions on & off the pitch. Staff that can produce quality youth team players to either play for the squad or be sold on. A board that can back the manager''s prudent buying & selling. 

[/quote]

Every club in the country wishes for this K Lo............................................

So, it''s no solution is it?

No, the club needs to innovate and develop a new business model for todays world.

Your model is the existing model. We lucked out with Worthington (once in 12 years) and then as with most other like clubs found the situation unsustainable.

Promotion under Gunn? We might luck out again........and it would be wonderful for a while......but unsustainable.

No, we need to innovate and evolve. Be leaders. Seek sustainable success.

OTBC

 

 

 

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]No, the club needs to innovate and develop a new business model for todays world.[/quote]That''s not bad, coming from someone who thinks it''s still 1959.

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i doubt if the board will seek to change any of their policies - its likely goes against their grain to sell assets and lease back to only invest this money into the playing side,,,imo - attendances of 20-23k next season mean the board have to do nowt than what they are already doing - they will cut the playing side budget as necessary to balance the books - and simply tough it out,,,as i predicted last autumn - the board have toughed it out since then - they showed little ambition in the jan transfer window,,,or by appointing the legends...whether we remain in the champs - or decline into league 1 - i doubt if they will show much genuine ambition to gain promotion...we may find however we have more funds than most next season however,,,because the recession is hitting manufacturing again hardest - and gates are dropping in footy clubs based in whats left of our manufacturing base...so we may have more funds in the champs relative to last season,,,and in league 1 - we should be a top 6 side in terms of playing budget...but will the club put as much money as they can afford onto the pitch - or keep a large wedge in reserve just in case of future economic woes...and quantitive easing is all about the bank of england printing money (rather than through government borrowing) to buy assets in the economy (such as banking and corporate bonds) to get some cash back into the economy and get things moving again...and counter the threat of deflation,,,basically---we''ve got another 6 months for the banking system to settle down - or else we could be heading for a depression - - - which could happen anyway,,,certainly - the latest economic numbers/forecast show the downturn to be more severe across the g7 than expected - likely to run the 1980''s recession pretty close,,,and thats if confidence in the banking system can be restored...which at the moment is uncertain - - - if all else fails,,,as sorus suggests - the imf may be called upon to pump a few trillion quid into the world economy to reflate it properly///

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[quote user="Fromage Frais"]
Or you could go against Keynes and go for the Austrian approach letting the recession purge the economy of excess credit and bubbles.

Who needs 350,000 apartments in Norwich, 30 quid + football tickets, and players on 10k+ per week with the customers on the same wages as before.

Nobody this recession is a good thing it may not feel like it but it is.

I believe that working > paying tax > government takes tax > spends it on themselves > gives it back to me though projects/tax credits is just a load of rubbish why not simply let me keep my money.

Just cut taxes and let BTL speculators go bankrupt.

It costs 13k just to exisit in the UK and the average wage in Norfolk is circa 19,000 we have created a place where for a lot of people it is better to claim than to work.

Take 10 people

Remove the kids under 14 18%  (leaves you 8.2 people)
Remove the old over 65 16%      (leaves you 6.6 people)
Remove the unemployed 6.3%   (leaves you 5.97 people)
Remove those working for government 30%? (leaves you 2.97 people)

Our problem is that those 2- 4 people working hold up all the others and this logically means that we spend more as a country then we make.

I would be lovely for us all to be given a nice government job etc etc but the reality is that with too many claiming and too many working in country hall some time now or in the future the house of cards will collapse.

Our government let us rack up debts as we would then have more money from house inflation than actual tax ravaged wages.

I love Norwich city I support them however I do not want my tax spent on giving them money they are a private company.  If norwich sold a player for 30 million would I get the money.... no.  If norwich where in the champoins league would the ticket prices go lowever to reward the fans....... no.

Lest us forget our councils have loads of money and invested it in Iceland ffs

If norwich where going to cease to exisit I would support an ebbsfleet scenario where the fans own the club with maybe the council owning the ground and renting it back (never bought)

In any case letting the idiots who got us into this mess spend us out of it is not an option Mr Brown had multiple warnings from the IMF over the UK economy and then he turns around and tells us we need overall oversight??????

Have a read of this


[/quote]

Do people who work for the government not pay tax then?

I only ask because I was under the impression that they did, which would mean that they actually pay a percentage of their own wages for the privilege of their low paid all be it reasonably secure jobs.

Which would mean that those who work in one of the areas of the government that makes a net profit, bigger contributors to the country than your 2.97 and how do you propose we organise ourselves once we are rid of them?

 

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]No, the club needs to innovate and develop a new business model for todays world.[/quote]That''s not bad, coming from someone who thinks it''s still 1959.[/quote]

The capacities to analyse, innovate and create have never been far from my door, Lapp.

How about you - or are you too busy trying to be clever all the time?

[H]

OTBC

 P.S. Or are you just ashamed of our history? I mean like 1959..................

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]P.S. Or are you just ashamed of our history? I mean like 1959..................[/quote]Nope! That ''59 cup run was the greatest achievement in our history and I''m proud and lucky to have been around at the time. BTW, did you know that Jimmy Moran featured in that cup run?

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]P.S. Or are you just ashamed of our history? I mean like 1959..................[/quote]Nope! That ''59 cup run was the greatest achievement in our history and I''m proud and lucky to have been around at the time. BTW, did you know that Jimmy Moran featured in that cup run?[/quote]

Good to know.

Now why don''t you let your intellect engage my proposal.

[:)]

OTBC 

 

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What I don''t understand is why you''re claiming copyright on these ideas when most of them have been drifting around in here for years.  Taking credit for the ideas of others, are you sure you''re not my boss ? [:p]Element 130 million on a sports stadium (about the going rate for a 45,000 seater) paid for by the council ?  How much would that push peoples'' council taxes up ?  If theres'' a million people in Norfolk, 30 quid.  Obviously half of those are kid, shall we assume for the sake of my fag-packet that there are 300,000 council tax payers in Norfolk ?  So that''s an extra £100 of council tax each for 300,000 people, when 90 % of them aren''t going to use the facility ?  I think any group of councillors that tried to pass this would find themselves chucked out of office pretty quickly.Element 2Sell Carrow Road for housing, nothing new here.  As has already been said, the housing market is in freefall, the problem is first time buyers can''t get mortgages, as they don''t have the 50 or 100 grand needed to buy one.Element 3Barcelona model, possibly not workable here, but suggested waaaaaaay back in 2007 here - and possibly before that aswell.Element 4Sell Colney aswell (see 2) - If you don''t offer Premiership facilities, you don''t land Premiership talent.  Where would the poor lads train, Mousehold ?Element 5 Membership owned (see 3), but run by who ?  Committee of fans ?  The camel was designed by a committee, they couldn''t decide how many humps to have, so some have 1, and some have 2.  If you want to delay a decision, form a committee.Element 6Think about the future when considering what you do now.  My my Babes, what a revelation, why has no-one considered this before ?

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]What I don''t understand is why you''re claiming copyright on these ideas when most of them have been drifting around in here for years.  Taking credit for the ideas of others, are you sure you''re not my boss ? [:p]

Element 1

30 million on a sports stadium (about the going rate for a 45,000 seater) paid for by the council ?  How much would that push peoples'' council taxes up ?  If theres'' a million people in Norfolk, 30 quid.  Obviously half of those are kid, shall we assume for the sake of my fag-packet that there are 300,000 council tax payers in Norfolk ?  So that''s an extra £100 of council tax each for 300,000 people, when 90 % of them aren''t going to use the facility ?  I think any group of councillors that tried to pass this would find themselves chucked out of office pretty quickly.

Element 2

Sell Carrow Road for housing, nothing new here.  As has already been said, the housing market is in freefall, the problem is first time buyers can''t get mortgages, as they don''t have the 50 or 100 grand needed to buy one.

Element 3

Barcelona model, possibly not workable here, but suggested waaaaaaay back in 2007 here - and possibly before that aswell.

Element 4

Sell Colney aswell (see 2) - If you don''t offer Premiership facilities, you don''t land Premiership talent.  Where would the poor lads train, Mousehold ?

Element 5

Membership owned (see 3), but run by who ?  Committee of fans ?  The camel was designed by a committee, they couldn''t decide how many humps to have, so some have 1, and some have 2.  If you want to delay a decision, form a committee.

Element 6

Think about the future when considering what you do now.  My my Babes, what a revelation, why has no-one considered this before ?
[/quote]

You sound rather like one of those chaps who can''t understand why they don''t pass their exams.

Dear oh dear. Oh dear.

OTBC

 

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[quote]

You sound rather like one of those chaps who can''t understand why they don''t pass their exams.

Dear oh dear. Oh dear.

[/quote]

You sound rather like one of those chaps who believes that using a dismissive tone in an argument is more important than having anything to say.Still.  One Love.

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