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kennyfoggo

It's a Long Standing Problem

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I do not blaming Gunny one iota or even Roeder or

Grant;  the fault lies fairly and squarely at the Boardroom door, the

mess we are in hasn''t just happened it has been happening for several

seasons, the club has been in decline the moment the Board failed to

invest money into Nigel Wothington''s squad during the summer before we

kicked off in the premiership.  The lack of ambition is now showing

clearer than ever, prudence has us relegated once and looks like it''s

going to it again.

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Smudger was right!!

He has kept his stance consistently and it''s only a change at board room and leadership that will stop the continuing decline of our club. I would take relegation for a change in the board room. Short term pain for long term gain. With the same board and escape relegation would not induce any changes to the long term plans of the current board. They wanted Worthy back ffs!!!

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I agree.  I don''t doubt that the board have always done what they think is right but the sad truth is a whole series of strange/poor/misguided decisions have taken there toll on this football club. Relegation or no relegation the club needs to take a long hard look at itself and decide where it wants to be in 5 years time.  We can''t just go on reacting to situations as they happen because the decline will continue.  We have to be proactive and create our own destiny (and you don''t need £millions to do it-look at Swansea)

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Agree that our problems stem right from when the club wouldn''t pay £2M to bring Crouch in at the start of the Premiership season!

 

Keeping Worthy one year too long!

 

Appointing the hopeless Grant and Mr know it all (but in reality!) knew F all Roedernowhere!

 

The board have done a good job at the club in every area bar the football team in recent years, thats a fact noone can dispute. Just look at the fact we can still attract 24/25,000 crowds when we are as bad as what we are is unbelieveable is firm evidence of this!

 

But they have now been around too long now and their mistakes on the football side are potentially going to take us back 50 years!

 

They need replacing, but thankfully they know that as well so hopefully something can happen sooner rather than later!

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[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

Agree that our problems stem right from when the club wouldn''t pay £2M to bring Crouch in at the start of the Premiership season!

 

Keeping Worthy one year too long!

 

Appointing the hopeless Grant and Mr know it all (but in reality!) knew F all Roedernowhere!

 

The board have done a good job at the club in every area bar the football team in recent years, thats a fact noone can dispute. Just look at the fact we can still attract 24/25,000 crowds when we are as bad as what we are is unbelieveable is firm evidence of this!

 

But they have now been around too long now and their mistakes on the football side are potentially going to take us back 50 years!

 

They need replacing, but thankfully they know that as well so hopefully something can happen sooner rather than later!

[/quote]

This is the first post I''ve read on here that criticises the board in an entirely just and productive manner. No fantasy conspiracies, but a comprehensive list of their mistakes without the need to make out they were anything more than honest mistakes.

Not signing a target man at the start of the Prem season was a definite watershed, and had we had Crouch or Ashton in August we would have almost definitely have stayed up. It would be interesting to know whether Worthy or the board made the decision not to sign Crouchy for £2m, because the cash was obviously there to do it.

Since then the appointments of Grant and Roeder have been poor choices, Worthy was supported for too long and was awful in his transfer window performances from the Prem onwards which began the decimation of the squad whilst Gunn is a gamble that could go either way. 

The positives are that the club is run extremely well from a marketing perspective, and that, however belatedly, the board are learning and the quick decision to get shot of Roeder was gutsy, as was the Gunn gamble.

Good post GrantRoeder Disaster.[:)]

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The club is  a shambles from the board to the coaching staff to the players.

However it is not JUST the board that is to blame.

Every week there are poor decisions by the coaching staff,  tactics, passion, attitude & cohesive team play are all missing from the coaching staffs influence,  what does go on at colney,  as the players dont seem to know how they work as a unit,  what their own role and responsibility is and understand what their team mates will be doing.  Player motivation is poor and tactical reponsiveness mid game is too slow as seen by substitions, which appears to be suffering of paralysis by concensus management.

Most of the players take to the pitch without passion or enthusiasm unless it suits them, seemingly unable to read the game and completely unaffected as to whether they win or not,  other than getting through the brief tough talking to from the gaffers. No one wants the ball for fear of making a mistake and they hide near a player instead of making themselves available to avoid that situation.  Movement and passing is woeful and I can only hope that one player finally makes it through a game making fewer mistakes per game than Andy D''Urso.

The board are to blame - but for me the squad must shoulder most of the responsibility for their shocking attitude.

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Although in hindsight not signing Ashton or Crouch was an error I can almost forgive them for that decision. Who in all honesty believed we would stay up that season in the Premiership ?? - Not me. Yes it was close and yes in hindsight the signing of those 2 players may have made the difference - but that is just hindsight.

For me the major major errors that have been made at this club and have led us to where we are now were those in the 2 seasons after relegation. These are ones that could (and in my opinion should) easily have been avoided if the club showed a tiny amount of ambition for the football team. Keeping Worthington far to long, cashing in on our better players only to give half the transfer revenue to bring in new players, buying players such as Jarrett, Hughes, Thorne - when we could have had the pick of the Championship better players. The club took these decisions in a cold calculated way whilst ''hoping'' the football would look after itself - how many times have you heard that word ''HOPE'' used by Smith, Munby, Doncaster over the past 5 seasons ?? Yes you do need abit of luck in life but you sure as hell aren''t going to win the lottery if you don''t buy a ticket !!! Sorry Delia et al you got it wrong big time - well done..! I just ''HOPE'' we stay up and get bought by Saudi Billionaire in the summer - but I feel my hope is as misguided as yours has been over the past few years...

And for the comments about the club being well run off the pitch - yes it is - but what would you rather have a nice comfy stadium to sit in with nice restuarants, bars, conference facilities, offices etc - or a successful team on the pitch. I know what I would prefer....

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[quote user="The Judge"]

Although in hindsight not signing Ashton or Crouch was an error I can almost forgive them for that decision. Who in all honesty believed we would stay up that season in the Premiership ?? - Not me. Yes it was close and yes in hindsight the signing of those 2 players may have made the difference - but that is just hindsight.

For me the major major errors that have been made at this club and have led us to where we are now were those in the 2 seasons after relegation. These are ones that could (and in my opinion should) easily have been avoided if the club showed a tiny amount of ambition for the football team. Keeping Worthington far to long, cashing in on our better players only to give half the transfer revenue to bring in new players, buying players such as Jarrett, Hughes, Thorne - when we could have had the pick of the Championship better players. The club took these decisions in a cold calculated way whilst ''hoping'' the football would look after itself - how many times have you heard that word ''HOPE'' used by Smith, Munby, Doncaster over the past 5 seasons ?? Yes you do need abit of luck in life but you sure as hell aren''t going to win the lottery if you don''t buy a ticket !!! Sorry Delia et al you got it wrong big time - well done..! I just ''HOPE'' we stay up and get bought by Saudi Billionaire in the summer - but I feel my hope is as misguided as yours has been over the past few years...

And for the comments about the club being well run off the pitch - yes it is - but what would you rather have a nice comfy stadium to sit in with nice restuarants, bars, conference facilities, offices etc - or a successful team on the pitch. I know what I would prefer....

[/quote]

 

Not hindsight but sadly your post is a sign of how far we have had our expectations consistently lowered by the current regime. The fact we went into that prem season with our owners and majority shareholders openly stating we were just their for a bit of fun and never really thought we could stay up meant we were doomed to failure from day one. Even now they have somehow managed to get many people into a mindset that staying in this division will be some sort of success. Unfortunately this mindset now seems to be so entrenched at boardroom level that I don''t see how we can rid ourselves of it without a complete clear out.

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Agree with most of that Judge, though the signing of Crouch would have been made I dare say by a club with slightly more foresight. No one can see what is going to happen in the future, but they can still make plans for what they might like to happen. Ashton to a lesser extent, as he was an unknown quality to us then, but equally we should have prepared ourselves with players fit for purpose.

The transfer dealings - spot on. This to me is the single biggest cause of our demise. Sell big, buy cheap, and this has been going on for long enough for the board to realise what the consequences would be. I too, cringe everytime a board member utters the word hope. They have recently compounded that by asking the assembled shareholders at the last AGM for advice. Could you make that kind of stuff up, even for a soap opera?

Your last comment, totally agree. I don''t go to Carrow Road for the restaurants of facilities. I go to watch a football match. Maybe I am getting old, but give me the days of open terracing and a decent football team and the real meaning of the word hope.

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[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Agree with most of that Judge, though the signing of Crouch would have been made I dare say by a club with slightly more foresight. No one can see what is going to happen in the future, but they can still make plans for what they might like to happen. Ashton to a lesser extent, as he was an unknown quality to us then, but equally we should have prepared ourselves with players fit for purpose. The transfer dealings - spot on. This to me is the single biggest cause of our demise. Sell big, buy cheap, and this has been going on for long enough for the board to realise what the consequences would be. I too, cringe everytime a board member utters the word hope. They have recently compounded that by asking the assembled shareholders at the last AGM for advice. Could you make that kind of stuff up, even for a soap opera? Your last comment, totally agree. I don''t go to Carrow Road for the restaurants of facilities. I go to watch a football match. Maybe I am getting old, but give me the days of open terracing and a decent football team and the real meaning of the word hope.[/quote]

Good post as usual Gazza, sell big and buy cheap sums it up perfectly for me. It''s a policy that will end in disaster as we are now finding out, this is why Delia should have been looking to sell after we were relegated because it was obvious she could no longer afford to own the club.

Had our fans been more demanding and put more pressure on the board when we did have some money I''m sure things could have been different now but Norfolk people seem to have low expectations , because of that the board believe they are doing a good job when they quite clearly are not. Can you imagine Mike Ashley telling Newcastle fans at their AGM that they didn''t know what to do next? I certainly wouldn''t put any money on him getting out of there in one piece

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Kdncfc, the low expectation thing is surely only prevalent amongst younger supporters or those who have maybe moved to Norfolk and just come along to CR and fell in love recently?

I can''t imagine anyone who has been around before the early 90s being happy with being classed as having low expectations. My expectations for this club are that we should be, at least, competing in the top half of the table, given the fact we have had more money than most to build a team. The fact that we should have to accept staying in this league as somehow a success is foreign to me, at least.

While I realise that for the rest of this sad season we all have to stick together and will the team to win enough games to stay in this league, I fully expect a post mortem of massive proportions come the summer.

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[quote user="kennyfoggo"] the club has been in decline the moment the Board failed to

invest money into Nigel Wothington''s squad during the summer before we

kicked off in the premiership.  The lack of ambition is now showing

clearer than ever, prudence has us relegated once and looks like it''s

going to it again.
[/quote]For me, the greatest mistake of the premiership season was in the very first game when Worthy decided to start with the new signings (some of whom had only just arrived at the club and were not fit) rather than keeping faith with the team that had us promotio in the first place.  Had we beaten Palace at C.R. that day, then the season would have panned out completely differently.Maybe we should blame ITV Digital.  If they had not gone into administration, then the club would have received £2m of TV income in the 2002 season.  Then again, having just lost that money, would you really epect the club to go spending £millions they dont have, in the hope they stay up when they got into the prem a couple of seasons later?2 seasons ago, Charlton and Watford were both in the prem.  They are [currently] below us despite receiving parachute payments and particularly in Charltons case, they spent heavily to stay in the prem.  They are now paying the price for that expenditure.

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Some good posts on this thread.  Regarding Crouch, I was surprised at the time we didn''t get him, but even so that first few months of the season cost us as we intially tried to muddle along with Doherty up front, along with the inexperience of McKenzie and an unfit Svennson.  There were games when we played well but couldn''t convert draws into wins.  By the time Ashton arrived, we had too much ground to make up.  All we needed was to get an extra body in up front and we didn''t.

And that is the problem in general.  Norwich have displayed a ''make-do'' attitude for all of the last few years.  Remember when Worthy wanted Steve Howard to partner Earnie?  When Glenn wanted Martin Taylor?  Two big calls that were missed and may well have changed the course of our history of our club and both those managers.  Instead we have always displayed the short-termism that is so prevelant now.  A quick loan is seen to fix the problem instead - except it is merely papering over the cracks.

Its really come back to haunt us now and will for some time regardless of what happens against Burnley this Saturday or whatever league we''re in next season.  I certainly don''t blame Gunny and co for this mess.

 

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The board are the long standing problem, but many Norwich fans just can''t see the wood for the trees - many fans I speak to still worship the ground Delia walks on and I am at a loss to why that is so. They still think she saved the club, which is pathetic.

Delia won''t let anyone play with her toys, despite saying she would step aside. She deliberately overvalues the club so there are no takers. There is a saying in business ''You can''t deal with Delia Smith''. Many local businessmen would be happy to put money in to NCFC, but they will not do so while Delia is in control. The do not rate her, therefore they will not invest in this club.

The problem has and always will be Delia Smith. Why can''t other fans see that despite her best intentions, she is the problem.

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The thing is Komakino - if (or when) we get relegated, how much will her shares be worth then. She will either have to pump in more money to stop us going into adminstration,(something i''m sure she will not want to, or can afford to do), or we will go into adminstration and her shares will be worth nothing anyway.

Whatever happens I feel we are entering the end game for Delia - and she knows it - which is why she wants to get out - however current economic conditions have resulted in the fact that she will get nowhere near her initial investment - if any at all.

The thing that worries me more than anything is the fact we (Delia & MWJ) own the ground & Colney - with no new investment will she sell these to protect her own investments ?? - I wouldn''t like to bet against it...

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I have to agree with pretty much everything that has been written in this thread.  One thing that does keep getting mentioned though is sell big buy small.  This is nothing new with this club and has been the trend for years before the Delia regime came into place.  The difference now is the last few managers we''ve had buying small do not have an eye for a good player like previous managers.  If I remember rightly most of our european team were made up of cheap cast offs and our own kids.  If you look at the last 3-4 years at the rest of this divisions transfers there are many which could have been classed quality cheap signings, we just never seem to be anywhere near them, however we all have a degree in hindsight!  - This is not a defence of the board, I''d like to see them gone, I''m merely pointing out we have done this for years.

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Excellent post Christov. I have followed city for 38 years and we have always been a selling team just to survive. The difference a you point out is the quality of the players we have brought in in recent years as well as the lack of a Daren Eadie or Chris SUtton coming through from the youth team to sell on for a few million to keep things ticking over.

Too many new supporters expecting too much. We are at best a average Championship side who punched well above our weight for one season.

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[quote user="jbghost"]

Excellent post Christov. I have followed city for 38 years and we have always been a selling team just to survive. The difference a you point out is the quality of the players we have brought in in recent years as well as the lack of a Daren Eadie or Chris SUtton coming through from the youth team to sell on for a few million to keep things ticking over.

Too many new supporters expecting too much. We are at best a average Championship side who punched well above our weight for one season.

[/quote]

Wrong, we should at best a midtable premier league side or a top 6 championship side at the worst. Between 1972 and 1995 that is exactly what we were, even though football has changed immeasureably in the last 13 years we have still underachieved in my book. We may not have any money now but when we have had money it hasn''t been used in the right areas, we were a comparable club to West Brom a few years ago but they made use of the prem money to strengthen their squad and when they have had to sell players due to relegation they have used a far greater proportion of that money to replace them with quality players.

We went from a 7 million pound striker to a 600k misfit in 3 years and that for me is why we are in the brown stuff. If we accept that we are an average championship side that is where we''ll stay and I think we are better than that.

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[quote user="jbghost"]

Too many new supporters expecting too much. We are at best a average Championship side who punched well above our weight for one season.

[/quote]

I sincerely hope you only mean the current side and not the club as a whole.  If its the latter than your expectations are pretty low by anybody''s standards.

And we were pretty darn good between 2001 and 2005.  Not just one season.

 

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[quote user="kennyfoggo"]I do not blaming Gunny one iota or even Roeder or Grant;  the fault lies fairly and squarely at the Boardroom door, the mess we are in hasn''t just happened it has been happening for several seasons, the club has been in decline the moment the Board failed to invest money into Nigel Wothington''s squad during the summer before we kicked off in the premiership.  The lack of ambition is now showing clearer than ever, prudence has us relegated once and looks like it''s going to it again.[/quote]

You talk about our club being in a mess!!!??? Sorry but its not in a mess just dorment while looking for new investment.

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[quote user="jbghost"]

Excellent post Christov. I have followed city for 38 years and we have always been a selling team just to survive. The difference a you point out is the quality of the players we have brought in in recent years as well as the lack of a Daren Eadie or Chris SUtton coming through from the youth team to sell on for a few million to keep things ticking over.

Too many new supporters expecting too much. We are at best a average Championship side who punched well above our weight for one season.

[/quote]

So for the majority of your supporting life NCFC have been a top league club yet you now accept that we are only an average Championship club, despite gates being about 8,000 higher than they have been for most of that time?!

And it is one thing to "sell to survive" of gates of 14,000 with little other income, quite another to do it with sell out 24,000 gates, £7m parachute payments and the much-lauded "other income streams" which have been so costly to instigate.  Our board gave up on being a competitive football club upon relegation and we are now witnessing the inevitable consequences.

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