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gazzathegreat

not standing

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just read the piece on this on the pink un home page, and am as usual fed up with those in authority trying to ram legislation down our throats!

what on earth are norfolk county council on - except loads of our hard earned cash!! who gives these idiots the power to tell me (and other season ticket holders) that we cannot stand at games? I wish to point out i have no gripe against the club, they have no say, it seems in being told what to do by a bunch of over zealous killjoys.............

i have been attending football matches for over thirty years and have never once found standing at a match to be unsafe, quite the reverse in fact, the seats create all sorts of problems and for anyone tall it must be a nightmare

i appreciate those at the back sometimes cannot see the game if people are standing, but surely common sense should prevail and a system used so anyone who wishes to watch games standing can do so in designated area, say blocks d and e of the barclay

it is about time we challenged this ridiculous legislation once and for all - i have had so many bruises in the last couple of years from seats - you get pushed onto the ones in front from people behind and at the side of you - never a problem on the terraces!

i am sure not many people will agree with me, but i have never been one for just agreeing with the powers that be - what do others think?

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Surely this cant be the end of those glorious sunny saturday afternoons, where the barcley boys are standing in full sunshine singing there hearts out.........

i totaly agree with you gazza, what is the problem with standing up and having a sign song?

Also have the club thought about mexican waves? you have to STAND UP to do the wave!

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I agree with you Gazzathegreat, I hate being told I have to sit. Im 6 feet tall & I''m constantly cutting & bruising my legs on the seat in front.. Surely grounds could have designated standing areas, this would probably slightly increase the capacity & greatly increase the atmosphere at FCR!! I enjoyed the terrace at the Barclay end far more than I do the seated area now! Not that I want to give my seat up!!!!

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I prefer to stand at away games but will obviously sit when obstructing anyone''s view. At home, I have no-one behind me but sit anyway, standing only for the normal reasons (goals, Huckerby on the ball, people going to the loo early, etc).

I like Gazza''s idea of standing blocks in all-seater stadiums and there is a campaign to bring these areas back, which would be great for the atmosphere and can be done safely.

The club sent the same letter out a year ago to those in the D and E blocks in the Barclay Lower - made little difference then...

I feel a voteline coming on but fear it may be a tad one-sided.

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Gazza: "who gives these idiots the power to tell me (and other season ticket holders) that we cannot stand at games?"

Much as I hate it and I too would rather stand, I think the answer to your question is ''the law''.

Which I think is ironic when you consider that the sad event that brought about this law was largely precipitated by police incompetence.

I don''t see why they shouldn''t just put more barriers up, so reducing the forwards movement (pushing) of the crowd. Would it be cynical to suggest that the law makers are perhaps more used to going to the theatre than to football, and therefore don''t understand the desire to stand during games....

Ama

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Just how many people have suffered any injuries at all due to standing up at Carrow Road in the last ten years?

None?

So how on EARTH is it a safety issue :/

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its just an extention of the nanny state our authorities would have us live in mainly due to the americanisation of our society which has brought a "where theres blame theres a claim" atitude{phew ,heavy stuff huh?}

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It''s completely and utterly ridiculous to order people to sit at games when the majority in some areas would prefer to stand.

The mass hysteria following the Hillsbrough tragedy is still with us, the decision to make stadiums all seater was simply a knee jerk reaction in an attempt to make up for the disaster. It''s obvious though that it is perfectly safe to stand at games, even in terraces containing crush barriers.

What next? Wrapping us all in cotton wool just incase we fall over in the street? How about the state handing out crash helmets just incase we are hit by meteorites?

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I suggest that, if you care that much, write to your MP to get Health & Safety legislation changed. If there''s enough national popular and key political support you''re in with a chance. Otherwise you''ll have to put up with the situation as it stands: you can''t really blame the council for enforcing the law (unless it''s a blatant misinterpretation of it). Such is democracy!

Personally I prefer to stand up too and do so whenever possible. I would be happy for the rules to be changed but as it turns out I don''t care enough to do anything about it, apart from mentally (& unfairly) calling the stewards all sorts of names when they tell us to sit!

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Got the letter with my season ticket and I am also 6ft tall and from August to May have 2 constant bruises on my knees as a result of the seating.

I too have no problem with the club over this but do sometimes find the attitude of stewards in the Barclay lower a little arrogant. I know that they have a job to do but this is a football match and remove the (occasional) standing and you will remove the passion.

Maybe I should bring action against the council for the damage caused to my knees as a result of their enforcement as an infringement of my human rights, yes stupid I know but then so is the ''safety'' banner that they always hide behind.



Joe Royle''s got a monkeys head

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I too am 6 ft plus and always bruise my shins by sitting. When people sit it completely ruins the atmosphere. I sit in E block in the barclay towards the back for the specific reason than I want to stand. Fair enough the club can talk of a safety issue but to talk about people not being able to see behind you is completely stupid as no-one in E or D block complain and want to sit. If they did ask me to sit down I would suggest they move to another part of the ground as i''m 22 been going for over ten yeas now and its well known that if u wanna sing and stand u get a seat in the barclay if not u sit somewhere else in the ground.

STAND UP IF U HATE THE SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I used to enjoy standing at matches, and really enjoyed the Barclay when it was all terracing. Sadly, it was the tragic loss of life at Hillsborough, which prompted the advent of seated stadia. Whether an individual wishes to stand or sit, it''s their personal preference or choice to do that, as long as they are prepared to be ejected by stewards or Norfolk Constabulary, for their non-compliance of the rules. It does smack of double-standards when visiting fans, stood for the whole duration of our home games last season, without ever being thrashed to within an inch of their lives, or immediately deported to Botany Bay. Freedom of choice is what I''m in total agreement with, but it''s not the Clubs fault, it''s the Law! I "reside" in the City Stand, and people there don''t stand, but do on occasion, rise to their feet when we score, (which suits me!) I also refrain from standing so as not to obscure my fellow supporters views because a few are infirm and unable to stand.

Nicotine....I don''t smoke, but I tolerate the chain smoking blast-furnaces in my immediate vicinity. As you are all probably aware (or not), the club is enquiring whether smoking should be outlawed, either completely, or just restricted to certain areas. It''s the club giving the majority the choice, which I think is pretty fair. At this present time, stewards in possession of hand held fire extinguishers, don''t encircle dirty nicotine addicts, and threaten to discharge their appliances if they don''t put their offending ciggy out. But folks, it''s out of NCFCs hands when it comes to standing, so if one wishes to stand, then one must accept the consequences. Bring back terracing I say OTBC ;~)

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People should read the letter carefully. It states that the Football Authorities expect more action by clubs this season to reduce persistent standing at football grounds.

Both the club and the County Council are clearly expected to ''do something'' and demonstrate that they are taking the issue seriously - hence Roger Munby''s polite, very non-confrontational letter.

From the club''s point of view, and the County Council''s, it makes sense for the letter to go out now, rather than risk a writ from someone, say, who takes a tumble while standing up at Carrow Road and then realise there might be money in it through the courts because he or she hadn''t been told to sit down...

If people want to campaign against the law as it is currently written then that''s fine - write to your MP, county councillor, whatever, and complain. Get involved. But don''t blame the Club or the County Council for pointing out what the law is.





I suspect

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Sorry to disagree with the majority of the board, but when you get a 6"6" 30stone b**stard standing in the seat in front of you then it can get "slightly" annoying. Nobody has anything against standing up at key moments, however it is when someone (possibly some of you on this thread) stands up for no apparant reason, which then creates a domino affect of people standing up. I, like most stand up when there is need to, however if everyone stands up it is an inconvenience, and also a major safety issue

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Sorry lads and lasses - I cannot agree with much of the comments on this post and I doubt if you asked the relatives of people who died at Hillsborough that you would find many who would agree either. Still, we are all entitled to our views and personally, I go to Carrow Road to see football matches and it matters not a jot whether I am sitting or standing, as long as I can see. I can understand that some people prefer to stand and I agree that certain areas of the ground should be made standing only but unfortunately you have to convince the Government that this is a desirable move. I feel sorry for the stewards at the Barclay end who are instructed to get fans to remain seated. The Club is, after all concerned that non-compliance with the ground regulations could well mean that the saftey licence is revoked and this is something we certainly do not want, particularly this coming season. For the sake of the majority of the supporters I would hope that some sense is observed by those wishing to stand for most of the games.

OTBC

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Surely, if you are standing you are obstructing someone''s view unless you''re in the last row.
I take my young sons to the matches home and away and it really pisses me off when they can''t see. This oppression nonsense doesn''t wash with me. Maybe if we had been at Hillsborough instead of Villa Park in 1989 we might see some different views on this matter.
Having said that I think standing sections (for limited numbers) would be a good compromise.

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EXACTLY!!!!


You speak for us all mwncfc

With your permission people, i will forward this thread to norfolk county council, along with my thoughts on their ''powers''. I am sure we could start a campaign, thing is i don''t know where to start with something like this, any ideas people?

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It''s just an idea and probably wouldn''t help anyway but has anyone noticed what some of the German stadiums do.
Now British grounds which were famous for their terracing with character and good atmosphere and passionate fans are leaving us with new all seater stadiums for which some are too similar and probably been made out of Lego although for some grounds that have had terracing, the idea of a new stadium or upgrade to seating isn''t a bad idea (e.g. Rotherham).
Some places are fine to sit but away games can be annoying and being forced to sit can be problems and usually at away games you don''t usually get the best facilities compared to the home fans. I''m about 6"1 or 6"2 and at some games my legs are in pain and nearly have my legs above my head! Coventry was one of them!.
Anyway I''ve been looking at the 12 world cup stadiums for Germany 06 recently and noticed a few interesting things about some of them. The Westfalenstadion (Dortmund) is a stadium with seating and terracing but has a very clever system installed. With terracing and seating the ground can hold 83,000 but if the stadium has to host an European match or International(Germany move round the country which is sort of what were doing temporarily at the moment) and so the ground is required to be all seater.
For Bundesliga games Terracing is allowed. There are about 25,000 terrace places and when seating is required these terrace places can be turned into seats and the seating still doesn''t let the appearance because the terraces have permenant metal folding seats where by seats can be removed or added when required no problem and people can stand or sit whenever one of them is available. With an all seater ground the capacity is 67,000 and Dortmund will be one of the host cities in the tournament with as requested an all seater stadium.
Those of you who watched the CL Final Between Porto and Monaco will know that it was played in the Arena Aufschalke, Gelsinkirchen and this will be one of the stadium for 06. With seats capacity is about 53,000 but and although the stadium was only completed 3 years ago the stadium was still built where by terracing could be used and a section is available and seats can be quickly removed or added when applicable and capacity with terracing can be 60,000+. In fact of the 12 stadiums to be used for the tournament which have been new stadiums, reconstructed, improved only the brand new Allianz Arena (Munich) and reconstructed Olympiastadion(Berlin) will be the only stadiums for the WC which are permanent all seater stadiums because the rest have sections of their stadium which can be converted into terracing if and when required. In fact many stadium throughout Germany use the idea of retractable seats and works to good effect.
That could be an idea to be considered although many would either never consider it or try and find something wrong with it but we can say that is something big that we are hugely missing in the country and could help benefit us a bit more if considered

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"Maybe if we had been at Hillsborough instead of Villa Park in 1989 we might see some different views on this matter. "

Nail.Hit.Head.

Can''t see the problem myself - you don''t stand at the movies, or during Eastenders. Come to think of it - watching England on TV at home, do people honestly stand in front of the sofa insteaad of sitting down?

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Good to see there is some common sense prevailing on this issue. Unfortunately, I can see that the only way the club will be able to enforce the ground conditions would be to close those sections where permanant standing is prevalent. When the South Stand was demolished, I was relocated to the Snake Pit where, while the atmosphere was brilliant, you could only see about half the game because of persistent standing with, as you say, the domino effect. No, I do not want to spoil anybody''s enjoyment of the games but you have to be considerate and do nothing which could put the club in a position where such drastic action is the only solution.
Good luck Gazza in your campaign to get standing only areas provided.

OTBC

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I was very young at the time so correct me if i''m wrong but I thought the Hillsbrough disaster was caused by a massive overcrowding. I watched a documentry on it a couple of years ago and the problem was due to gates just being opened rather than ensuring that only a limited number with tickets got in. So surely it wasn''t down to people standing just that way too many people got in.
To the point about do people stand when they watch England play well most of the people who are pro standing probably watch the game in the city along with myself and no-one sit I can assure u. Is it dangerous for people to stand and watch the game in Squares, is this gonna be banned?
I don''t stand during Eastenders as I don''t need to sing my heart out for Ian Beale but me and the rest of the barclay boyz do for our local team.

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One last point, before I had a season ticket I used to move around the ground just getting a ticket where I could if I sat in any part of the ground apart from the back of the lower barclay I would sit if people couldn''t see behind me but I bought a season ticket at the back of the barclay as I know everyone who sits there wants to stand and sing so whats the problem? Out of the 50 odd of us who stand there how many people have been injured from standing and how many have hurt themselves sitting?
In the rest of the ground u have families and small children so being boistrous and standing shouldn''t be allowed.

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I am glad to see towards the back of this post the argument against standing has been put forward, until all standing areas are a reality, which even in my advancing years I sincerely miss, but standing up in all seater environment is just plain selfish.

I was at Villa Park on that day in April, and although we didn''t suffer the dramativ events of the Leppings Lane End it was still pretty hairy on the edge of a narrow terrace at the yop of the Holte End and would have only taken one idiot to push forward to have caused a Hillsboro in Brum.

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I sympathise with the safety first point of view and despite standing when possible, can understand that if the rules exist we can''t complain too much unless we actually try to change them. However, in my humble opinion it''s probably safer to stand in seating areas than on terraces, simply because of the freedom of movement the latter allow and thereby encourage.

I think if there''s going to be a scenario where safety is compromised it''ll be when too many people are moving around excessively and in excessive large numbers, i.e. down the aisles and stairs. This can''t happen where the seats are, and people are discouraged from pushing those in front by the pointlessness and self-harm of doing so. (However, I am prepared to concede in the light of greater experience. What happened at Villa Park?)

On someone else''s point about the ''selfishness'' of standing in blocking others'' views, I haven''t heard this as a complaint before. Surely everyone knows anyway (or it becomes apparent after one visit) which stands are suitable for children, the disabled etc. and which aren''t. For example, if I were a parent I certainly wouldn''t take my child into the Barclay or the Snake Pit (or indeed any away stand) anyway, if only because of the fruity language!

That''s what the Family Area (and in practice, at least in the past, the River End too) is for, and long may it provide this option. But you can''t purge the entire ground of traditional football spectating, or you''ll end up with a golf-style crowd. In my view, that is.

Still, good to hear people sensibly considering safety issues.

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Agreed Generation, but rules is rules and they have to be enforced. I feel so sorry for the stewards in the areas of the Barclay trying to do the job for which they are employed. I still think by the actions of the fans in those sections, they are placing the club in an invidious position which will only result in drastic action like losing the safety licence and any action like that which endangers our football club, I for one am not prepared to risk. Please let common sense prevail and protest in the proper manner.

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You''re absolutely right Pottsy, the Hillsborough disaster was caused by somebody allowing the gates to be opened as they feared the huge amount of fans outside would riot. This uncontrolable influx tragically led to people being crushed at the front by the safety fencing.

It had absolutely NOTHING to do with standing terracing. We don''t have fencing anymore, therefore a repeat of Hillsborough is impossible. Totally impossible.

I completely sympathise with the families of the victims, I can''t imagine how they feel. But a good friend of mine was killed in a car crash years ago, I never asked for the roads to be taken up to stop it happening again.

Bring back terrace sections for those who wish to stand. Keep seats for those who don''t. VERY simple.

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