Football firms

[ur just a man in a jacket 0]

norwich certainly have some ''factions''...... these are groups that the police monitor at home and away games. it is not a case they are hooligans..... they wear no colours and do wear the usual stone island, henri lloyd, gant etc..... which is very fashionable to the ''danny dyer'' wannabes. they all drink in the same pubs and all know each other.

im not going to mention the groups on here but there are at least 4 groups who are very well known!   

very good point i have been told by norfolk police before, if you wear colours they basically arent interested in you.

 

CTID OTBC

[pak mei 0]

well you can explore the rights and wrongs of human nature all day but being a barclay boy in the late 70''s was a lot of fun and it wasn''t full of namby pandy winging whining pr*cks,

[ur just a man in a jacket 0]

CT - speak your mind, its a free world!!

and yes there is a ''norwich youth'' group!!

[DC Harry Batt 0]

The debate around this is interesting and polarising. Having grown up in the 70s/80s I witnessed the ''dark'' times and there were many around the issues....

On violence, especially where those innocent are caught up, there is no excuse, end of, BUT with that and terraces it created a big sense of ''belonging'' to area/city/county linked to your team which has eroded & been watered down since.

The word is adrenaline associated not with violence itself but with the atmosphere & all that surrounds your city being vistied by certain teams shall we say with this multiplied when going away this cannot be denied and only those who were around this time can identify it was exciting. I remember standing on the West Ham terraces right next to their fans and similarly the same in the Barclay right next to Ipswich the atmosphere was a mix of excitment, menace/joy and walls of noise it just is not the same and that I miss. 

Without doubt as a sport the issues have not gone away but been marginalised think CCTV, all-seaters, Skinner and Badiel!, more family/entertainment/sky I could go on.

However yes there are ''firms'' but pre-dominantly these are a virtual parody of years gone. These are mostly old mates dressing in decent clobber for a few beers and a reminice, I know first hand.

Is football better well yes as people are not being hurt or killed so theres the bigger picture. Is a day out at footy still exciting it can be but in a sanitized way.

So many aspects of the ''old'' days I miss but there have but both benefits and losses....   

[chicken 0]

[quote user="glove1"]

CT - speak your mind, its a free world!!

and yes there is a ''norwich youth'' group!!

[/quote]The "youth groups" arn''t exactly football hooligans in that they are just trouble makers generally - they cause trouble outside of football more they just happen to attend games. They aspire to be what the movies have shown them - Green Street etc. Essentially they are the "happy slapper" generation of football thugs.In truth I have met once such person who I would not be surprised if he was linked with one of these groups - I met him playing for a local footy team who I was surprised to find knew about him and did not openly challenge his behaviour. The man was every bit nasty, racist, shovanistic and thought himself a bully and talked up a fight every time I had the displeasure of meeting him. At the time I was a rather young 18/19 and was intimidated by him - mainly because he had no fear and seemed to enjoy the idea of inflicting pain upon someone else. At the time Norwich had the likes of Damian Francis and McKenzie and would refuse to comment on them other than to call them derogatory names.Now there maybe groups or "firms" out there that are not as extreme as that but I should imagine the ones with the real reputations are the likes of him, and you wouldn''t want to cross him.

[still holding out for new heroes 0]

[quote user="glove1"]

CT - speak your mind, its a free world!!

and yes there is a ''norwich youth'' group!!

[/quote]

flee for your lives, its the Cossey Possey...no telephone box is safe from being smashed...no bin safe from being upended...no muddy car safe from having the word ''bum'' etched into it with a claw like finger...

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="Marty"]I get sick of people making out it is acceptible to go out looking for trouble and that if you shy away from it you are a lightweight. I will always look after myself, but I go to footy for the sport and decent banter between fans, not the neanderthal behaviour. I don''t need to fit in with a little gang. These days are over, we have moved on, football can be enjoyed by civilised people nowadays. I am always quite proud of the Norwich fans, they are well humoured and normally pretty decent and react quite well to the abuse of other so called fans.[/quote]

Get over farty[;)], it use to be a working mans game but now its not. The fact it was would''ve always had the less desirable element letting off steam and yes that included NCFC. For the record we had the Barclay Harlem, Barclay boot boys, and the Steins and I''m now told by my son [who has assured me he has no links whatsoever] are called the Norwich Hit Squad, or NHS. Some of these lads in the past use to be die hard fans and still are. I actually find the whole soccer AM fan attitude worse than some of your so called ''neanderthal'' fans, At least they don''t change as and when the mood takes them.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Come on Tlly my ole son, are they still around?[;)]

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="DC Harry Batt"]

The debate around this is interesting and polarising. Having grown up in the 70s/80s I witnessed the ''dark'' times and there were many around the issues....

On violence, especially where those innocent are caught up, there is no excuse, end of, BUT with that and terraces it created a big sense of ''belonging'' to area/city/county linked to your team which has eroded & been watered down since.

The word is adrenaline associated not with violence itself but with the atmosphere & all that surrounds your city being vistied by certain teams shall we say with this multiplied when going away this cannot be denied and only those who were around this time can identify it was exciting. I remember standing on the West Ham terraces right next to their fans and similarly the same in the Barclay right next to Ipswich the atmosphere was a mix of excitment, menace/joy and walls of noise it just is not the same and that I miss. 

Without doubt as a sport the issues have not gone away but been marginalised think CCTV, all-seaters, Skinner and Badiel!, more family/entertainment/sky I could go on.

However yes there are ''firms'' but pre-dominantly these are a virtual parody of years gone. These are mostly old mates dressing in decent clobber for a few beers and a reminice, I know first hand.

Is football better well yes as people are not being hurt or killed so theres the bigger picture. Is a day out at footy still exciting it can be but in a sanitized way.

So many aspects of the ''old'' days I miss but there have but both benefits and losses....   

[/quote]

Well summarised my friend

[jim blair 0]

[quote user="foggo7"]well you can explore the rights and wrongs of human nature all day but being a barclay boy in the late 70''s was a lot of fun and it wasn''t full of namby pandy winging whining pr*cks,
[/quote] Here Here !!

[Chunky Norwich 0]

Is there a guy called Walrus?

[Dions Lightsaber 0]

[quote user="Chunky Norwich"]Is there a guy called Walrus?[/quote]

I am the Walrus...

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="Chunky Norwich"]Is there a guy called Walrus?[/quote]

I know the fella well, he was in the armed forces with my son years back.

[ricky knight 0]

I remember the Mental Crew of the 70s/80s, went home and away, hardcore green and yellow, never backed down from anyone, travelled in cars transit fans anything to get to a game. Looking back it was probably stupid but it was a great time and the club did seem like ours not like now and people soon learned little old norwich were no pushovers.

[O.T.B.C 0]

[quote user="ricky knight"]I remember the Mental Crew of the 70s/80s, went home and away, hardcore green and yellow, never backed down from anyone, travelled in cars transit fans anything to get to a game. Looking back it was probably stupid but it was a great time and the club did seem like ours not like now and people soon learned little old norwich were no pushovers.[/quote]

So violence runs in yours and your sons blood then?[;)]

[ricky knight 0]

[quote user="Canaries in Bed"]

[quote user="ricky knight"]I remember the Mental Crew of the 70s/80s, went home and away, hardcore green and yellow, never backed down from anyone, travelled in cars transit fans anything to get to a game. Looking back it was probably stupid but it was a great time and the club did seem like ours not like now and people soon learned little old norwich were no pushovers.[/quote]

So violence runs in yours and your sons blood then?[;)]

[/quote]

 

Well it has a good chance of doing so as we have both been paid for fighting as a living, but you better put right the sons bit, as i have two others who are model citizens and you might just be in trouble for libel. You have a fascination for my son which is unhealthy buddy.

[jim blair 0]

[quote user="Canaries in Bed"]

[quote user="ricky knight"]I remember the Mental Crew of the 70s/80s, went home and away, hardcore green and yellow, never backed down from anyone, travelled in cars transit fans anything to get to a game. Looking back it was probably stupid but it was a great time and the club did seem like ours not like now and people soon learned little old norwich were no pushovers.[/quote]

So violence runs in yours and your sons blood then?[;)]

[/quote] yep, good shout Ricky..Remember the smoooooooove moooooove van very well !!!!!!!!!!

[ricky knight 0]

[quote user="jim blair"][quote user="Canaries in Bed"]

[quote user="ricky knight"]I remember the Mental Crew of the 70s/80s, went home and away, hardcore green and yellow, never backed down from anyone, travelled in cars transit fans anything to get to a game. Looking back it was probably stupid but it was a great time and the club did seem like ours not like now and people soon learned little old norwich were no pushovers.[/quote]

So violence runs in yours and your sons blood then?[;)]

[/quote] yep, good shout Ricky..Remember the smoooooooove moooooove van very well !!!!!!!!!![/quote]

Me too buddy it used  to take me two hours to clean up the booze bottles and cans.

[coops 0]

Hull had one of the best firms in the 70''s & 80''s. Stoke were also a force to be reckoned with but Chelsea Headhunters, Soul Crew (Cardiff City) and Millwall Bushwackers were the top firms. Norwich Hit Squad had a small following and were laughable compared to the above.

 

[quote user="ncfc90"][quote user="chicken"][quote user="CT "]

Teams like chelsea and milwall (there are firms for other teams I''m sure) have football firms that go around causing trouble and fighting with opposition firms.

Do Norwich have one? Or are we just too nice?[:P]

[/quote]

I think you have got this all wrong?!!

For a start those clubs do not "have" firms. There are simply thugs that like nothing better than a brawl who see football as an oppertunity to do it.

I think every club used to have such people hang around them some do not seem to have shaken off their reputions whilst others maintain them through acts of sheer sillyness. Top five:

- Millwal
- Cardiff
- Leeds
- Hull
- Chelsea

However I would like to highlight that these have declined in recent years. I did happen to chance upon a ton of Police ejecting the contents of a pub in north London a couple of years ago, the majority of who were skin head Chelsea thugs. What made it really bizarre was that there were so many of them in such a small pub on a busy main road in north London when the match was being played at Stamford Bridge??!! Not that it makes sense.

And as for not talking about it - surely that is what they want? Secrecy and anonimity?

Does anybody else remember the Millwall game a couple of years ago, I think against Leeds, when the "thugs" turned on each other and started fighting in the residential streets around the ground. They ended up causing the death of several police horses and serious injury to police officers. They destroyed brick walls to get bricks to use as missiles . . . .

Wiki: "

A former Chairman of the club, Reg Burr, once commented; "Millwall are a convenient coat peg for football to hang its social ills on."^[7]

Having said this, hooligans attaching themselves to Millwall were involved in a riot away from the ground, after a play off game against Birmingham City in May 2002, which was described by the BBC as one of the worst cases of civil disorder seen in Great Britain in the recent past. A Scotland Yard spokeswoman said that 47 policemen and 24 police horses were injured, and the Metropolitan Police considered suing Millwall after the events."

BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2038676.stm

There was also that undercover programme on TV a few seasons ago about the head of the thugs at Cardiff who was a shareholder and on some occaisions incuraged by their chairman at the time - Sam Hamaam.
[/quote]

Hull? that''s a joke surely? Bunch of pussies wearing colours, who will swear and shout stuff at you, only if there''s a police barrier seperating them from the other fans. If not, they would do fuck.

[/quote]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="chicken"][quote user="glove1"]

CT - speak your mind, its a free world!!

and yes there is a ''norwich youth'' group!!

[/quote]

The "youth groups" arn''t exactly football hooligans in that they are just trouble makers generally - they cause trouble outside of football more they just happen to attend games. They aspire to be what the movies have shown them - Green Street etc. Essentially they are the "happy slapper" generation of football thugs.

In truth I have met once such person who I would not be surprised if he was linked with one of these groups - I met him playing for a local footy team who I was surprised to find knew about him and did not openly challenge his behaviour. The man was every bit nasty, racist, shovanistic and thought himself a bully and talked up a fight every time I had the displeasure of meeting him. At the time I was a rather young 18/19 and was intimidated by him - mainly because he had no fear and seemed to enjoy the idea of inflicting pain upon someone else. At the time Norwich had the likes of Damian Francis and McKenzie and would refuse to comment on them other than to call them derogatory names.

Now there maybe groups or "firms" out there that are not as extreme as that but I should imagine the ones with the real reputations are the likes of him, and you wouldn''t want to cross him.
[/quote]

What the hell does it have to do with race?

You have obviously read too many Daily Mail outakes on football violence.

The Birmingham Zulus were half made up of blacks in the 1980''s and many teams in the Midlands and London had black guys as some of their firms head boys.

There are many books and TV documentaries that you can find online CT that would give you an education on what has gone on over the years.

As far as I am aware, to their Credit on the whole CIty fans have never really had a massive firm.

I think there is probably signs of as much going on here at the moment as there ever has been in the past.

The reports of what happened at Leicester last year shocked me and we can be thankful that they have not visited Norwich since (because knowing many of the people who follow them I am sure that they would of set out for revenge in Norwich City centre on their next visit).

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Arturo Whittlupoli"]

[quote user="Chunky Norwich"]Is there a guy called Walrus?[/quote]

I know the fella well, he was in the armed forces with my son years back.

[/quote]

Never heard of Walrus... I do know the names of some though (knicknames again)... on defo belonged to NHS as far as I know.

The other has prob been involved with some of the names you mentioned and was involved with the trouble that happened at Leicester last season Arto.

Would I mess with any of them?

Not unless I knew that I was quick enough and had easy access to flee the scene very quickly.... [;)]

[ricky knight 0]

I remember a news of the world write up on city fans in the 70s and a panorama type program many other firms put the norwich mental team down as mean mothers. that team was 200 strong with some pretty handy and ugly fellahs.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="coops"]

Hull had one of the best firms in the 70''s & 80''s. Stoke were also a force to be reckoned with but Chelsea Headhunters, Soul Crew (Cardiff City) and Millwall Bushwackers were the top firms. Norwich Hit Squad had a small following and were laughable compared to the above.

 

[/quote]

Would like to point out that this is very true... although I heard that some Norwich fans stood firm against some Leicester City fans outside Filbert Street after a midweek league cup tie in 1988 and even got the better of them.

We also know what happened at their place last year. 

Most teams in the UK seem to have an element who are up for it for certain games and not others. Apart from the regional clashes that so many have, I suppose it is a bit like football itself in the fact that the bigger a firms reputation the more people in some towns and cities would like to have a pop to see if they can bring them down.

I am not sure how many that were involved from either side had anything to do with firms (maybe more from Leicester than Norwich).  Sometimes though back then you were quite often left with little choice but to be caught in the wrong place at the wrong time and deciding whether you stood your ground and fought back or ran).

You mention only 3 firms who were feared by many all around the UK, but there were many more who were just as bad if not worse than some of who you mention above.

Chelsea for instance still sing a song "Over land and sea... and Leicester"

This is because probably the worst ruck some of the main Chelsea Headhunters ever ran in to was when about 200 or 300 Baby Squad members (Leicester City) had a massive ruck with them on the same day as the Hillsborough tragedy.

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="ricky knight"]I remember a news of the world write up on city fans in the 70s and a panorama type program many other firms put the norwich mental team down as mean mothers. that team was 200 strong with some pretty handy and ugly fellahs.[/quote]

I think a few groups have come to Norwich in the past expecting to take the pee and been surprised Ricky, as I have seen similar write ups in the past.

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

[quote user="ricky knight"]I remember a news of the world write up on city fans in the 70s and a panorama type program many other firms put the norwich mental team down as mean mothers. that team was 200 strong with some pretty handy and ugly fellahs.[/quote]Ah, makes ya proud don''t it......[:|]

[ricky knight 0]

If you dont like the topic spat dont join in, easy really. like it or not thats how it was back then, as i said before seems kinda stupid now, just like the hoodies will feel in 30 years.

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

[quote user="ricky knight"]If you dont like the topic spat dont join in, easy really. like it or not thats how it was back then, as i said before seems kinda stupid now, just like the hoodies will feel in 30 years.[/quote]I can be interested even if I don''t like it?! Fair dues you saying it seems kinda stupid now, but as someone else mentioned, it seems like there''s a nostalgic "good old days" tone about plenty of this thread''s posts. Fact is, I don''t particularly mind the idea of some thugs going at at each other in some deserted warehouse if they want to, but innocent people were and are caught up in mindless violence then and now. Most people grow out of it obviously and you seem a reasonable chap but 96 people died at hillsborough as a result of that kind of behaviour

(not that day maybe, but the fences were there because of it) their

families might think it worse than kinda stupid

[In Dubious Battle 0]

[quote user="SPat"][quote user="ricky knight"]If you dont like the topic spat dont join in, easy really. like it or not thats how it was back then, as i said before seems kinda stupid now, just like the hoodies will feel in 30 years.[/quote]I can be interested even if I don''t like it?! Fair dues you saying it seems kinda stupid now, but as someone else mentioned, it seems like there''s a nostalgic "good old days" tone about plenty of this thread''s posts. Fact is, I don''t particularly mind the idea of some thugs going at at each other in some deserted warehouse if they want to, but innocent people were and are caught up in mindless violence then and now. Most people grow out of it obviously and you seem a reasonable chap but 96 people died at hillsborough as a result of that kind of behaviour

(not that day maybe, but the fences were there because of it) their

families might think it worse than kinda stupid[/quote]That is absolute rubbish your talking about hillsborough! The scum were responsible for those deaths!

[BIC 0]

He didn''t say they did, he said the fences were there because of the hooliganism. Correct?Those poor sods were crushed against fences that wouldn''t have been there if they hadn''t been considered necessary at the time

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="CT "]

Do Norwich have one? Or are we just too nice?[:P]

[/quote]Or just too grown up and sensible?