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Pete Raven

STEVE GEDGE - Expediency now rules for hard-up City

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[quote user="Sports Desk - Pete"]http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/sport/commentary/FinalWord.aspx[/quote]"Plainly City haven''t just scraped the financial barrel, but have now

hoisted it up and are busy digging into the ground underneath in the

slim hope that something might have been left there by the Romans."Indeed.  Good article and the one piece from any Archant journos which is not prepared to give the board the benefit of the doubt they don''t deserve after the huge gamble on the untried and untested Grant.If they came out and said "look, we''re skint and couldn''t afford anyone else," I''d at least respect them for it.

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my only concern is to get a competent right back in, an experienced cb in at this level to partner doc, (and no archant grounds ISN''T a recognised cb) and a proven striker...this is where the focus needs to be imo,,,anything less than this would risk NCFC''s champs status imo...and would represent a huge gamble///i hope sufficient powder will be made available to gunny - and dixie makes a good fist of it...wonder what the board will do???

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Sports Desk - Pete"]http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/sport/commentary/FinalWord.aspx[/quote]"Plainly City haven''t just scraped the financial barrel, but have now

hoisted it up and are busy digging into the ground underneath in the

slim hope that something might have been left there by the Romans."Indeed.  Good article and the one piece from any Archant journos which is not prepared to give the board the benefit of the doubt they don''t deserve after the huge gamble on the untried and untested Grant.If they came out and said "look, we''re skint and couldn''t afford anyone else," I''d at least respect them for it.[/quote]Whilst I''d agree that Gunn was cheap, he''s missed the key reason, which was motivation. Jamie Cureton was campaign manager and head cheerleader for the appointment, and mentioned that other senior players were campaigning for Gunn as well.

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[quote user="Icecream Snow"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Sports Desk - Pete"]http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/sport/commentary/FinalWord.aspx[/quote]

"Plainly City haven''t just scraped the financial barrel, but have now hoisted it up and are busy digging into the ground underneath in the slim hope that something might have been left there by the Romans."

Indeed.  Good article and the one piece from any Archant journos which is not prepared to give the board the benefit of the doubt they don''t deserve after the huge gamble on the untried and untested Grant.

If they came out and said "look, we''re skint and couldn''t afford anyone else," I''d at least respect them for it.

[/quote]

Whilst I''d agree that Gunn was cheap, he''s missed the key reason, which was motivation.

Jamie Cureton was campaign manager and head cheerleader for the appointment, and mentioned that other senior players were campaigning for Gunn as well.

[/quote]

Add Crofty to that too

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I like the way he said that Nigel Pearson was a proven manager thats why Southampton did not appoint him, pah. If you call a man who managed one season at Carlisle, a couple of temp charges with Newcastle a proven manager, I''d hate to see what an unproven manager is...

I would rather have Gunny, who cares more about the club than a lot of others, than having a manager like Dowie, Holloway or Robson.

Yes I would have had Boothroyd and Ince, but how long would they have stayed if another team came in for them, same applies to Curbs, but I doubt he would have come to another team with no money.

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[quote user="Icecream Snow"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Sports Desk - Pete"]http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/sport/commentary/FinalWord.aspx[/quote]"Plainly City haven''t just scraped the financial barrel, but have now

hoisted it up and are busy digging into the ground underneath in the

slim hope that something might have been left there by the Romans."Indeed.  Good article and the one piece from any Archant journos which is not prepared to give the board the benefit of the doubt they don''t deserve after the huge gamble on the untried and untested Grant.If they came out and said "look, we''re skint and couldn''t afford anyone else," I''d at least respect them for it.[/quote]Whilst I''d agree that Gunn was cheap, he''s missed the key reason, which was motivation. Jamie Cureton was campaign manager and head cheerleader for the appointment, and mentioned that other senior players were campaigning for Gunn as well.[/quote]yeah - i saw curetons quotes yesterday - confirmed by earlier speculation that is was ''player power that won it''!!!its a cheap gamble by the board, but as donny has hinted at, if more dosh is in the transfwer pot - then i hoping we get the experienced players we need in to give us a proper shout at avoiding the drop - cos that would be tragic...

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[quote user="Icecream Snow"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Sports Desk - Pete"]http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/sport/commentary/FinalWord.aspx[/quote]

"Plainly City haven''t just scraped the financial barrel, but have now hoisted it up and are busy digging into the ground underneath in the slim hope that something might have been left there by the Romans."

Indeed.  Good article and the one piece from any Archant journos which is not prepared to give the board the benefit of the doubt they don''t deserve after the huge gamble on the untried and untested Grant.

If they came out and said "look, we''re skint and couldn''t afford anyone else," I''d at least respect them for it.

[/quote]

Whilst I''d agree that Gunn was cheap, he''s missed the key reason, which was motivation.

Jamie Cureton was campaign manager and head cheerleader for the appointment, and mentioned that other senior players were campaigning for Gunn as well.

[/quote]

Sorry but we are really in a mess if we take at face value the relative worth of players PUBLIC comments on their boss / prospective boss.

How many times have you seen players anywhere publicly criticise ''the gaffer'' - it does''nt happen. Anyway what about Fozzy''s commnets that the ''lads'' let GR down? Crofty was waxing lyrical about Lee Clark when he left Norwuich and then went on to say that Adam Sadler was ''great in the dressing room''!! Most footballers are''nt the sharpest tools in the box and will almost always pull the drawbridge up in defence of the manager.

Now if we can proved that the remarks of Curo and others are what they really think in private then I may have more confidence in their opinions.

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I don''t want to criticise Cureton because he''s City through and through BUT I would rather have had a young ambitious player singing the praises of Bryan Gunn rather than someone who probably wants to see out his playing days here which could be easily achieved if we slip down a division.

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[quote user="lucky green trainers"][quote user="Icecream Snow"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Sports Desk - Pete"]http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/sport/commentary/FinalWord.aspx[/quote]

"Plainly City haven''t just scraped the financial barrel, but have now hoisted it up and are busy digging into the ground underneath in the slim hope that something might have been left there by the Romans."

Indeed.  Good article and the one piece from any Archant journos which is not prepared to give the board the benefit of the doubt they don''t deserve after the huge gamble on the untried and untested Grant.

If they came out and said "look, we''re skint and couldn''t afford anyone else," I''d at least respect them for it.

[/quote]

Whilst I''d agree that Gunn was cheap, he''s missed the key reason, which was motivation.

Jamie Cureton was campaign manager and head cheerleader for the appointment, and mentioned that other senior players were campaigning for Gunn as well.

[/quote]

yeah - i saw curetons quotes yesterday - confirmed by earlier speculation that is was ''player power that won it''!!!

its a cheap gamble by the board, but as donny has hinted at, if more dosh is in the transfwer pot - then i hoping we get the experienced players we need in to give us a proper shout at avoiding the drop - cos that would be tragic...
[/quote]Can''t agree with the cheap gamble,roeder wasn''t a cheap gamble and look what happened there.Roeder will go down in history as the worst manager norwich ever had.Gunn might not be everyones choice but if the feel good factor keeps us up then the so called cheap gamble has worked.After all thats all roeder done last season and that has ended up costing us thousands.Roll on tuesday and friday 6 points and the whole situation will look better

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I just think that whoever the board had appointed they would have got no credit whatsoever. And they must have known this after the way their last two appointments worked out. However, what I find interesting about the whole "cheap option scenario" is the inclusion of Crook in the package. In fact considering the amount of people who put him forward for the managers job on the last two occasions I can only assume that had the board given the job to Crook and left Gunny where he was some fans would have been happier even though it would have probably been an even cheaper option.

I don''t believe there is any surefire way of appointing a successful football manager and I think the best we can hope for is that this is their turn to get it right!

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I just think that whoever the board had appointed they would have got no credit whatsoever. And they must have known this after the way their last two appointments worked out. However, what I find interesting about the whole "cheap option scenario" is the inclusion of Crook in the package. In fact considering the amount of people who put him forward for the managers job on the last two occasions I can only assume that had the board given the job to Crook and left Gunny where he was some fans would have been happier even though it would have probably been an even cheaper option.

I don''t believe there is any surefire way of appointing a successful football manager and I think the best we can hope for is that this is their turn to get it right!

 

[/quote]

Bingo!!

It makes me laugh the number of people who pre-judge managers and players brought into this club. I can remember the anger when Walker was appointed (1st time) and the moans that it was a cheap option. Also Ken Brown and Dave Stringer both appointed from within the club and with no managerial experience. Arguably the 3 most successful managers in the club''s history. All got the job having worked behind the scenes at the club for a number of years - I do acknowledge they were on the coaching staff but Gunn has been involved in the football side for a couple of years now.

A look at the possible candidates for the job showed that all had potential downsides and there probably wasn''t any candidate that would have had anywhere near universal agreement when appointed (apart possible from Curbs). There are very few guarantee''s of success in footie (other than the very top echelon of manager''s such as Mouriniho, Fergie, Wenger & O''Neill).

The one thing Gunn will have is the backing of the fans who will al most to a man want him to succeed. I suspect many on here were just waiting for Roeder to fail and sadly he lived up to his reputation. The momentum of Gunn''s initial appointment may get 4 or 5 wins which will pull us away from trouble and we will hopefully then continue to pick up sufficient points to steer clear of trouble. Looking at things currently, you feel that Charlton are gone and Southampton look in trouble. The third space could go to anyone, Donny and Forest have really improved and Watford & Derby are on the slide. Of interest is the fact that with the exception of Donny all the bottom teams have changed their manager this season. Possibly for 3 of them it will not have worked...

No-one knows for ceratain at this moment whether Gunn''s appointment will work, we will have a damn good idea by the end of February!

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3 managerial appointments by our current incumbents in 2 years......Is that a surefire way of appointing a successful football manager....Law of averages, they hopefully, might be fortunate to get it right with another 3 in 2 years....Why rely on hope?....Why not learn from your past mistakes?

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[quote user="Mister Chops"]If they came out and said "look, we''re skint and couldn''t afford anyone else," I''d at least respect them for it.

[/quote]Unbelievable.....If you really think that saying that would help the manager, the fans, they players or anyone who cares about Norwich City Football Club, the board must be sooooo pleased that they don''t have your respect!I don''t like to make negative posts about a fellow poster but sometimes I think you are in a competition with yourself to think of truly stupid things to say....

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[quote user="Badger"]I don''t like to make negative posts about a fellow poster but sometimes I think you are in a competition with yourself to think of truly stupid things to say....[/quote]Lucky you''re not invited, as you''d have just won it with that one.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Badger"]I don''t like to make negative posts about a fellow poster but sometimes I think you are in a competition with yourself to think of truly stupid things to say....[/quote]Lucky you''re not invited, as you''d have just won it with that one.[/quote]I stand corrected, clearly you think that this is a an intelligent and realistic piece of advice:[quote user="Mister Chops"]If they came out and said "look, we''re skint and couldn''t afford anyone else," I''d at least respect them for it.[/quote]This would be a really excellent way to get the fans, players and manager pulling in the same direction – a real boost to everyone’s confidence ahead of the struggle ahead. What is even more astonishing than the fact that you made such a silly comment in the first place  is the way that you think it is worth justifying now! It is barely credible that you think that anyone would make such a comment about a manager that they have just appointed.Mr Chops reached rock bottom and kept on digging!

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[quote user="Badger"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Badger"]I don''t like to make negative posts about a fellow poster but sometimes I think you are in a competition with yourself to think of truly stupid things to say....[/quote]Lucky you''re not invited, as you''d have just won it with that one.[/quote]I stand corrected, clearly you think that this is a an intelligent and realistic piece of advice:[quote user="Mister Chops"]If they came out and said "look, we''re skint and couldn''t afford anyone else," I''d at least respect them for it.[/quote]This would be a really excellent way to get the fans, players and manager pulling in the same direction – a real boost to everyone’s confidence ahead of the struggle ahead. What is even more astonishing than the fact that you made such a silly comment in the first place  is the way that you think it is worth justifying now! It is barely credible that you think that anyone would make such a comment about a manager that they have just appointed.Mr Chops reached rock bottom and kept on digging![/quote]Clearly they were never going to come out and say that.  The fact remains, it''s what a lot of people believe to be the true reason he was hired.  Will we ever know?  Probably not.  But it is reasonable to think that after the Worthy approach was denied - after Ince was or wasn''t offered the job - short of options the board thought "let''s give it to good old Gunny, he did quite well for 45 minutes against Barnsley and he''s already on the payroll".NB:  I''m not trying to justify my previous comment - I have no need to.  Once more you have taken something far too literally and have decided to saddle up the high horse to respond.  That''s your choice.  And "reached rock bottom and kept on digging" is a disappointing cliché, I was really hoping for better from you.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"]If they came out and said "look, we''re skint and couldn''t afford anyone else," I''d at least respect them for it. [/quote]After two challenges:[quote user="Mister Chops"]Clearly they were never going to come out and say that.  [/quote]So why suggest that they should? And why not own up to it in the first place?[quote user="Mister Chops"]Once more you have taken something far too literally [/quote]You had opportunities to explain that it wasn’t a statement to be taken literally but didn’t take them. Perhaps because you realised the position was unsustainable?It’s not that far-fetched to believe that you meant it literally – after all others have said the same – on another thread:[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]Imagine of they stood up and said, guys we are in a bloody mess and we need to go for money saving options here. I actually think the supporters would react very well.  [/quote]Presumably you feel that this is not meant to be taken literally either?

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[quote user="Badger"][quote user="Mister Chops"]If they came out and said "look, we''re skint and couldn''t afford anyone else," I''d at least respect them for it. [/quote]After two challenges:[quote user="Mister Chops"]Clearly they were never going to come out and say that.  [/quote]So why suggest that they should? And why not own up to it in the first place?[quote user="Mister Chops"]Once more you have taken something far too literally [/quote]You had opportunities to explain that it wasn’t a statement to be taken literally but didn’t take them. Perhaps because you realised the position was unsustainable?It’s not that far-fetched to believe that you meant it literally – after all others have said the same – on another thread:[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]Imagine of they stood up and said, guys we are in a bloody mess and we need to go for money saving options here. I actually think the supporters would react very well.  [/quote]Presumably you feel that this is not meant to be taken literally either? [/quote]You accuse me of spin and yet you carry on like a top of the range Zanussi.I am saying that if the board had come out and said "we''re skint, the club are in financial trouble and so we''ve turned to Bryan Gunn," people - at least, I -  may have given them more credit than the "fans'' choice" sheen which has been applied (whether wholly or partially, as debated to death elsewhere.)What is unreasonable about that statement?  Nothing.Clearly the board were not going to come out and say that.  Unsurprisingly, they have not come out and said that.  What is unreasonable about that statement?  Nothing.Are the two points contradictory?  No.I''m suggesting they should say something they are unwilling to say.  Is that a difficult concept for you to grasp?  Let me illustrate it.I thought Glenn Roeder should have come out and said "sorry about the AGM, I was a bit of a prat."Glenn Roeder did not come out and say that.Therefore I lost respect for Glenn Roeder.I thought Doncaster should have come out and said "for a number of financial reasons, we are hiring Bryan Gunn as manager until the end of the season."Neil Doncaster did not come out and say that.Therefore I retained my lack of respect for Neil Doncaster.You have no argument here.  I''m astonished there are people who, after all the many and wonderful cock-ups this regime has made, will still bark and bark at those who dare question them as if everything which spews from Doncaster''s mouth was first carved into stone tablets and carried down from the mountain.  Still, carry on.  We''ve got all night.  Which pedantic side point would you like to pick up on next?

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="Mister Chops"]If they came out and said "look, we''re skint and couldn''t afford anyone else," I''d at least respect them for it. [/quote]After two challenges:[quote user="Mister Chops"]Clearly they were never going to come out and say that.  [/quote]So why suggest that they should? And why not own up to it in the first place?[quote user="Mister Chops"]Once more you have taken something far too literally [/quote]You had opportunities to explain that it wasn’t a statement to be taken literally but didn’t take them. Perhaps because you realised the position was unsustainable?It’s not that far-fetched to believe that you meant it literally – after all others have said the same – on another thread:[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]Imagine of they stood up and said, guys we are in a bloody mess and we need to go for money saving options here. I actually think the supporters would react very well.  [/quote]Presumably you feel that this is not meant to be taken literally either? [/quote]You accuse me of spin and yet you carry on like a top of the range Zanussi.I am saying that if the board had come out and said "we''re skint, the club are in financial trouble and so we''ve turned to Bryan Gunn," people - at least, I -  may have given them more credit than the "fans'' choice" sheen which has been applied (whether wholly or partially, as debated to death elsewhere.)What is unreasonable about that statement?  Nothing.Clearly the board were not going to come out and say that.  Unsurprisingly, they have not come out and said that.  What is unreasonable about that statement?  Nothing.Are the two points contradictory?  No.I''m suggesting they should say something they are unwilling to say.  Is that a difficult concept for you to grasp?  Let me illustrate it.I thought Glenn Roeder should have come out and said "sorry about the AGM, I was a bit of a prat."Glenn Roeder did not come out and say that.Therefore I lost respect for Glenn Roeder.I thought Doncaster should have come out and said "for a number of financial reasons, we are hiring Bryan Gunn as manager until the end of the season."Neil Doncaster did not come out and say that.Therefore I retained my lack of respect for Neil Doncaster.You have no argument here.  I''m astonished there are people who, after all the many and wonderful cock-ups this regime has made, will still bark and bark at those who dare question them as if everything which spews from Doncaster''s mouth was first carved into stone tablets and carried down from the mountain.  Still, carry on.  We''ve got all night.  Which pedantic side point would you like to pick up on next?[/quote]Are there any parts of this that are not supposed to be taken literally? It would be a lot easier to discuss with someone that doesn''t have to take half a side to say what he meant to say earlier, whilst at the same time claiming that what he did say, he didn''t mean literally.You have done this on this thread and the other one about the "fan''s choice." Most people either stand by their point or refute it.  You try to regurgitate it in another format saying "this is what I meant but didn''t say, and don''t be so naive to believe that I meant what I did say.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"]Sorry, you''re boring me now.

[/quote]That''s ok.Just try to say what you mean next time and don''t make sweeping statements that you later try to wriggle out of. You seem quite intelligent and should be capable of making reasonable points without subterfuge.

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