NCFC sold?

[Andy Larkin 15]

[quote user="mr carra"]If he bought some of Delia''s and Michael''s shares the club wouldn''t get a penny.  The club only gets money from the sale of shares if it is issuing new ones.[/quote]If he bought some of their shares and then they (DS and MWJ) put that money into transfer funds would that not class as investment?

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="Morph"]
Purple, the information from the City rule talks about when a mandatory offer would have to be made to shareholders. You are correct that it would not be a takeover, but if somebody or a group of bodies acquired a 30% shareholding the City rule would kick in and they would have to make a formal offer to shareholders.

As a number have alluded to, if Delia and MWJ choose to sell 29% of the shareholding there is no reason for the rest of the shareholders to be told. That would allow another body or bodies to become part of the shareholders without the City rule on mandatory offers coming into effect.
[/quote]

That''s what I was asking last night and it''s now been confirmed twice.  I wonder if that was the way forward, they sell a % of their shares for a seat on the board, in return getting the cash injection.

And the minor shareholders don''t have to be notified?  (People like me and you).

[Belinda Carlisle 0]

Sorry, Chops.http://www.pinkun.com/content/ncfc/story.aspx?brand=PINKUNOnline&category=Norwich&tBrand=PinkUnOnline&tCategory=Norwich&itemid=NOED26%20Jan%202009%2010%3A25%3A32%3A970

[BigFish 1,986]

[quote user="Jonesy"]

[quote user="Reg Presley"]If NCFC had been sold then shareholders would have had to be notified first. We have not been.
[/quote]

Don''t spoil it for me... I was exited for a couple of minutes!!! Do all share holders have to be informed, or just people with a lot of shares?

[/quote]

As I understand it if any amount of a PLC is sold above a threshold of something like 29% then it needs to be via a formal offer that is made to all share holders, whether they own 1 share or half the club.

[Morph 19]

Anyone know where we can find out what the current major shareholdings are?

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

A PLAIN

GUIDE

It seems as if this latest rumour was not too substantial, but this might be

useful anyway…a plain guide from a non-expert to NCFC as a company using rough

figures.

1. There are 550,000 voting shares. Smith and Jones (effectively as one person)

own 320,000 shares. That is 61.2 per cent. A comfortable majority. That means

they own the company.

2. If they sold any of their shares the money would not go to the club, but to

them. Of course they COULD pass it on to the club as investment if they wanted

to, but that would effectively mean they had given their shares away.

 

3. However

if Smith and Jones sold even a relatively modest number of shares (about

50,000) their holding would fall below the 50 per cent figure and they would no

longer be the majority shareholders. Shareholders would have to be informed of

that. This would also, incidentally, trigger the repayment of the £2m loan to

the Turners, if they demanded the money back. This is currently an unlikely

scenario all round.

4. Anyone acquiring 30 per cent of the total shareholding of the company HAS to

make a formal offer for the other 70 per cent. And they have to offer the

highest price that they have paid in getting to 30 per cent. So someone who has

bought some shares at £20, some at £30 and some at £40 would have to offer £40

a share to the holders of the 70 per cent. There is nothing to force people to

sell, but the offer has to be made.

So:

All sorts of things might be being plotted in private.

All sorts of things might be about to happen.

The only significant thing that could ALREADY have happened without it becoming

public is that someone has been buying shares and got to 29 per cent. But in

this case it would not be shares from the Smith and Jones holding that had been

bought – it would be various minority holdings. And this would not be a way of

providing investment for the club. It would simply be shares changing hands.

And, because NCFC is not a listed company, this would be an unlikely way of

trying to take it over.

To provide investment the club could try to find buyers for the 33,000 unissued

shares it seems to have lying around, form and issue new shares on top of those

(but not so many as to affect the ownership of the company), get donations from

rich club supporters, or attract someone with more money than sense to join the

board!

 

In terms of

a change of ownership, rather than investment, there are probably only two

circumstances in which that will happen:

1. We are days or even hours away from bankruptcy and Smith and Jones feel

forced to accept a bid they otherwise would turn down. The black knight

scenario.

2. We are not close to bankruptcy, and someone makes an offer Smith and Jones

feel is good for the club in the long-term. The white knight scenario.

And, as mentioned earlier, because NCFC is not a listed company, any such takeover

would almost certainly not be not be achieved by someone getting to 30 per cent

of the shareholding and making a bid for the rest. It would probably work in

one of two ways:

1. Smith and Jones selling all or virtually all their shares.

2. Smith and Jones agreeing to the creation of new shares (probably around

600,000), to be bought by the would-be owner.

---

This comes with a health warning that it is not from an expert, so I will

willingly be put right on anything and everything.

[Morph 19]

Purple, thanks for that plain english guide to the ins and out of the shareholdings. As you say, someone could have quietly been acquiring shares for minority shareholders up to total 29% holding in NCFC Plc. Beyond that 29% the mandatory offer has to be made to all shareholders according to the takeover and mergers rules.[quote user="PurpleCanary"]And, as mentioned earlier, because NCFC is not a listed company, any such takeover

would almost certainly not be not be achieved by someone getting to 30 per cent

of the shareholding and making a bid for the rest.[/quote]Does that mean that there is no way to find who has the major shareholdings then?

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

Morph, as for shareholdings, of the directors, apart from Smith and Jones, Foulger has 18,000 shares. All companies have to provide Companies House with a full list of all shareholders. Whether, in this internet age, that list is available on line I don''t know.What I do remember from Cullumgate was someone saying that Jimmy Jones, who was Chase''s vice-chairman. had a sizeable shareholding. Frankly I have no idea if he is still alive, and what happened to those shares. But if you add up the shares belonging to the directors it comes to nowhere near 100 per cent, so there may be some largeish stakes out there.

[shefcanary 2,393]

Morph

You can ring Companies House on 08457 573991 (or if you are a web customer of Companies House you can call 0870 333 3636) to order a copy of the CD ROM which has full details of the shareholders and shareholdings on it as at 28 October 2008.  Other than that you''ll have to ask the Company Secretary of NCFC plc for the latest position.

Not sure if you will have to go through the spanish inquisition either way.   I''d do it myself but by the time the CD arrived if this and other threads are correct it will have changed again anyway and a new broom will have swept in subject to shareholders approval!!

[Mister Chops 7]

I''ve heard nothing else on this - maybe things are happening, maybe not - sorry if I raised any hopes, I was relaying info from a usually reliable source.

[Erik the Viking 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]I''ve heard nothing else on this - maybe things are happening, maybe not - sorry if I raised any hopes, I was relaying info from a usually reliable source.

[/quote]

Chops, dont really feel you need to apologise like you say "you were only passing on info that you received". what exactly was it that you heard?. I would appreciate a PM if you would be so kind if you dont want to post it at avoid the flak!

[kdncfc 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]I''ve heard nothing else on this - maybe things are happening, maybe not - sorry if I raised any hopes, I was relaying info from a usually reliable source.

[/quote]

Not really got a problem reading posts about potential takeovers, at least it gives us hope even if nothing ever seems to come of them. I think there is something going on mainly because there seems to be rumours from several different sources that something is afoot. These things do take time so it could be weeks before we hear anything, I wouldn''t give up on it just yet.

[singing canary 0]

i know the board made a quick decision regarding roeder, quicker than i thought , fair enough the fans were on the boards back.

they must have some money to pay him off .

im sure if someone new wanted to come in, the first thing they would look at is the popularity of a cerain mr roeder.

would it be a good idea to say anything before the transfer window shuts,? as delia rightly said we wouldnt want to alert any other clubs of  what we have.

something is going on im sure, too many rumours are going round,

well at least i hope so..

 

[plan b 0]

it''s all very strange that some people have found it neccesary to have released a formal statement denying all this ''wild speculation'' on this message board, it seems that they doth protest too much, as it were. the thing is, norwich is a small place and it only takes one loose tongue from someone privvy to infomation for stuff like this to come out. obviously some things are just pure rumours and hearsay but there has been a lot of similar stories coming different sources that has made this all the more believable, especially after that statement from mr foulger.

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="plan b"]it''s all very strange that some people have found it neccesary to have released a formal statement denying all this ''wild speculation'' on this message board, it seems that they doth protest too much, as it were. the thing is, norwich is a small place and it only takes one loose tongue from someone privvy to infomation for stuff like this to come out. obviously some things are just pure rumours and hearsay but there has been a lot of similar stories coming different sources that has made this all the more believable, especially after that statement from mr foulger.
[/quote]

The trouble is that rumours beget rumours and like Topsy just grow - it''s not exclusive to football but it''s the most prevalent on football message boards I would say.  But you are a public PLC and if there is anything to them at all it will come out loud and clear.

[Mello Yello 2,289]

NCFC....soiled?

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="plan b"]it''s all very strange that some people have found it neccesary to have released a formal statement denying all this ''wild speculation'' on this message board, it seems that they doth protest too much, as it were. the thing is, norwich is a small place and it only takes one loose tongue from someone privvy to infomation for stuff like this to come out. obviously some things are just pure rumours and hearsay but there has been a lot of similar stories coming different sources that has made this all the more believable, especially after that statement from mr foulger.[/quote]Seems really odd to me.  Thinking about it I can''t remember the last time ''Chicken Tycoon'' said anything to the Media.  Yet he responds to Message Board rumours.  Unless of course Archant contacted him and then spun the story.

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="Darren Butt-Head"][quote user="plan b"]it''s all very strange that some people have found it neccesary to have released a formal statement denying all this ''wild speculation'' on this message board, it seems that they doth protest too much, as it were. the thing is, norwich is a small place and it only takes one loose tongue from someone privvy to infomation for stuff like this to come out. obviously some things are just pure rumours and hearsay but there has been a lot of similar stories coming different sources that has made this all the more believable, especially after that statement from mr foulger.
[/quote]

Seems really odd to me.  Thinking about it I can''t remember the last time ''Chicken Tycoon'' said anything to the Media.  Yet he responds to Message Board rumours.  Unless of course Archant contacted him and then spun the story.
[/quote]

My understanding is that Mr F did not issue a statement: he responded to being rung up by Archant.  A fair enough call in my book.  The site was alive - okay that''s probably ovewriting - with investment/Cullum/New Age Investment rumours and so the Sports Editor said: "Okay, ring him up and ask him."

If I am wrong in that, Web Team Pete will no doubt correct me.[:D]

I blame the Press myself but even I rang up after "Shola is in the building".  The prospect of a player on his honeymoon saying to his bride: "Sorry dear, I''ve gotta go to a Norwich interview, you know how it is?"  On the beach, she just sighed and nodded.  "Love you" she said as he padded off across the sand....................

She called after him.  "It''s not........" her voice trailing.  Shola turned and smiled at his bride.  "No," he said emphatically.  "It''s NOT Peter Grant.  That''s over.................."

[;

Just as well Shola''s agent is a good sport.  Magic moment.  If it hadn''t been for Good News Gordon I''d have missed it.

Anyway, blame the Press.  We don''t care or I don''t anyway. [:P]

Mind you the "yeah, yeah" stuff was a bit out of style for Archant but I blame the subs myself.  Some of them won''t be there by next month.