Bryan Gunn, Costa del Colney and the spineless way out

[Badger 0]

Mr C, nobody is denying the fact that the fans were referred to. there is no need to simply keep repeating the same quotations. How about being a little less selective though? From the same article"1. “I tried to watch the body language of the players" ... 2. "having a chat at half-time, as I understand it,

the dressing room was all about mutual encouragement" 3. "what I then

noticed was that players were not referring to the bench any more, they

were doing their own thing, playing intuitively.”4. City have been

at pains to accentuate the need for “yellow and green blood” in the new

regime - and the prospect of some continuity at the top desk. “I

think between them it''s 1,094 games for Norwich City as players over an

extended period of time,” said Munby. 5. “We have the added precedent that

the last time a former goalkeeper (Mike Walker) was manager of Norwich

City a) John Deehan was his assistant and b) it was the single most

successful season in the club''s history. That''s Norwich through and

through. 6. “Isn''t

that so much in the DNA of this football club? If you go back - Ron

Saunders succeeded by John Bond, Ken Brown, Dave Stringer, Mike Walker.

Each of those appointments from within. It would be great to rekindle

that sort of continuity.”Six other points made in the article about the appointment that you simply ignore so that you can put forward the myth that it was the board surrendering to the fans in "spineless" fashion. I repeat - You accuse THEM of spinning? [quote user="Mister Chops"]That''s why it''s a spineless appointment - they can''t even be straight with us about the reasons for hiring Gunn. [/quote]The central basis of your allegation is flawed. Your attempt to cover the facts does you little credit.

[Badger 0]

My position? A post from the 18th on the "Why I don''t want Gunny" thread.[quote user="Badger"][quote user="renegade tootsie"]

Regardless of proven ability and based on one result.  Brilliant. 

 

Does anyone seriously think in their tiny minds that gunny wants to

give up his cosy mr nice guy lifestyle to grab the poisoned chalice?

 

Nuggets.

[quote user="Badger"]I would love top see

him as manager. IMO dave Stringer was our best ever manager and he was

an internal, steeped in the clubs history.

[/quote]

[/quote]When

we enjoyed our best ever years, we consistently appointed from within

the club. Stringer hadn''t had managerial experience and Walker had only

limited experience (at Colchester?) years before. Whether

Gunn would want the role is another matter - he has far more to lose

than to gain. However, I don''t think that he would be any more risky

than any of the proven failures that constitute most of the list.[/quote]

[ron obvious 1,501]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="ron obvious"]This is a sad day for the football club.  It is the day we turned our

back on ambition and embraced local mediocrity.  For years now,

Doncaster and Delia have been bleating about "affordable family

football."  This is what we''re going to get.  Nice little Norwich City

with Nice little Bryan "I used to be Sheriff" Gunn in charge, that nice

Ian "gis a fag" Crook as coach and John "I''m eighty-nine years old"

Deehan as chief scout and management mentor.  "Hey Bryan .... when I

was boss, I did this.  Don''t do that."  Great insight.I f they are nice, decent people, then they must by default be simpletons, since only simpletons would have such little self-awareness to realise their inadequacies for the job.Simpletons it is then.[/quote]That''s a very cynical view.  Perhaps they''re prepared to roll their sleeves up and pitch in for the club they hold great affection for.  I have no problem with that.  I simply question whether they are the best candidates for the job - but time will tell.[/quote]Please read my follow up post. If you can''t see that I was pointing out that, coupling your extremely patronising remarks about the new management staff with the assertion that "but they''re still nice guys", led to the absurd conclusion that they''re the happiest lads in the village, then I give up.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Badger"]Mr C, nobody is denying the fact that the fans were referred to. there is no need to simply keep repeating the same quotations. How about being a little less selective though? From the same article"1. “I tried to watch the body language of the players" ... 2. "having a chat at half-time, as I understand it,

the dressing room was all about mutual encouragement" 3. "what I then

noticed was that players were not referring to the bench any more, they

were doing their own thing, playing intuitively.”4. City have been

at pains to accentuate the need for “yellow and green blood” in the new

regime - and the prospect of some continuity at the top desk. “I

think between them it''s 1,094 games for Norwich City as players over an

extended period of time,” said Munby. 5. “We have the added precedent that

the last time a former goalkeeper (Mike Walker) was manager of Norwich

City a) John Deehan was his assistant and b) it was the single most

successful season in the club''s history. That''s Norwich through and

through. 6. “Isn''t

that so much in the DNA of this football club? If you go back - Ron

Saunders succeeded by John Bond, Ken Brown, Dave Stringer, Mike Walker.

Each of those appointments from within. It would be great to rekindle

that sort of continuity.”Six other points made in the article about the appointment that you simply ignore so that you can put forward the myth that it was the board surrendering to the fans in "spineless" fashion. I repeat - You accuse THEM of spinning? [quote user="Mister Chops"]That''s why it''s a spineless appointment - they can''t even be straight with us about the reasons for hiring Gunn. [/quote]The central basis of your allegation is flawed. Your attempt to cover the facts does you little credit.

[/quote]Clearly the decision was not painted as being 100% "the fans'' choice."  But I think you have to acknowledge that the thrust of the EDP article indicates Munby et al viewed the fans opinions (based on one wobbly 45 minutes and one encouraging 45 minutes) as key to the selection process.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Robert N. LiM"]How does it feel to be in the same camp as the Wizard, Choppsy?[/quote]Give it five minutes...

[Mello Yello 2,287]

I think it was Gunn''s job - even before Barnsley.....

[Badger 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Badger"]Mr C, nobody is denying the fact that the fans were referred to. there is no need to simply keep repeating the same quotations. How about being a little less selective though? From the same article"1. “I tried to watch the body language of the players" ... 2. "having a chat at half-time, as I understand it,

the dressing room was all about mutual encouragement" 3. "what I then

noticed was that players were not referring to the bench any more, they

were doing their own thing, playing intuitively.”4. City have been

at pains to accentuate the need for “yellow and green blood” in the new

regime - and the prospect of some continuity at the top desk. “I

think between them it''s 1,094 games for Norwich City as players over an

extended period of time,” said Munby. 5. “We have the added precedent that

the last time a former goalkeeper (Mike Walker) was manager of Norwich

City a) John Deehan was his assistant and b) it was the single most

successful season in the club''s history. That''s Norwich through and

through. 6. “Isn''t

that so much in the DNA of this football club? If you go back - Ron

Saunders succeeded by John Bond, Ken Brown, Dave Stringer, Mike Walker.

Each of those appointments from within. It would be great to rekindle

that sort of continuity.”Six other points made in the article about the appointment that you simply ignore so that you can put forward the myth that it was the board surrendering to the fans in "spineless" fashion. I repeat - You accuse THEM of spinning? [quote user="Mister Chops"]That''s why it''s a spineless appointment - they can''t even be straight with us about the reasons for hiring Gunn. [/quote]The central basis of your allegation is flawed. Your attempt to cover the facts does you little credit.

[/quote]Clearly the decision was not painted as being 100% "the fans'' choice."  But I think you have to acknowledge that the thrust of the EDP article indicates Munby et al viewed the fans opinions (based on one wobbly 45 minutes and one encouraging 45 minutes) as key to the selection process.[/quote]At last! This is exactly the point that I have been making - it was the thrust of the EDP article. They focussed upon one thing amongst a number that was said and chose to run with that as the headline and the opening paragraphs. Had they wished to, the EDP could have had a headline "Board determined to return to Norwich traditions" and spoken more about our (often) successful tradition of appointing from within.Alternatively, "Board influenced by the confidence factor" citing the extra confidence the players showed etc etc. For you to take the headline in isolation of the rest of the article, resulted in you (accidentally?) interpreting the boards decision as simply a "spineless" attempt tp placate the fans. I''m sure it was a significant factor  - nothing wrong with that - but it was a far more involved and considered than the "spineless" "spinning" decision that you potray.

[. 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]When Peter Grant was sacked, we rightly were angry about the perceived easy life of our footballing professionals.  "Costa del Colney", as it was tagged, was a place where footballers could pick up thousands of pounds a week for doing very little work in return.  They had it easy.  The establishment, under Worthy, then Grant, was cosy and unchallenging.  Change was needed.

We got change in the form of Roeder.  He kicked out the lazy ones and kept us up.  To be fair, he made some poor decisions along the way but he kept us up and improved the squad.  Bye Murray, Strihavka, Brellier. Hello Bell, Hoolahan, Clingan.

But then Roeder was rude to a few people and revealed himself to be an arrogant fool who had lost the confidence of the players.  After the shambles of the ''59ers tribute match, which looked more like a bunch of strangers in retro kit struggling to identify each other, Roeder was fired.

And now the Board had a big decision to make.  Experience?  Proven ability to deliver results?  Nope.  Ignoring the fact that Forrest Gump could have taken over from Roeder and the team would still have beaten Barnsley, they turn to the temporary custodian of the manager''s position, and once legendary goalkeeper, Bryan Gunn.  Recalling Crook and Deehan in the bargain.

What a weak, short-sighted and spineless gamble.

"Prudence with ambition," Doncaster repeatedly said.  What is prudent or ambitious about gambling our championship survival on an untried, untested manager?

What is prudent or ambitious about the knee-jerk reaction which says that "Roeder annoyed people so let''s get someone in who everyone likes?"

What is prudent or ambitious about appointing a management team which consists of some Australian coaching, a failed ex-Norwich City manager and a man whose career path is "Sheriff of Norwich.... head of Player Recruitment.... er.... Norwich City manager"?

Nothing prudent.   Nothing ambitious.  It is desperation from the board, pure and simple, and Gunny is the main fall guy.  No experience despite 10 years in a cosy backroom club job.  Welcome back Costa del Colney.

"We need someone who understands the club," they say.  "We need a local."  Is this the League of Gentlemen?  Apart from Dario Gradi, only local to Crewe because he''s been there since 10AD, who else can you name from the "local club for local people" school of footballing philosophy?

This is a sad day for the football club.  It is the day we turned our back on ambition and embraced local mediocrity.  For years now, Doncaster and Delia have been bleating about "affordable family football."  This is what we''re going to get.  Nice little Norwich City with Nice little Bryan "I used to be Sheriff" Gunn in charge, that nice Ian "gis a fag" Crook as coach and John "I''m eighty-nine years old" Deehan as chief scout and management mentor.  "Hey Bryan .... when I was boss, I did this.  Don''t do that."  Great insight.

Welcome back, Costa del Colney.  Welcome back the arm round the shoulder, "don''t worry lads, you did your best" school of management.  Christ, I want to vomit at this pathetic abdication of responsibilities by the board supposedly in place to promote the best interests of this football club. 

Of course I will back this management team, and I hope they stuff every single word I''ve typed here back down my throat as we win half of our remaining games, finish 14th and prepare for a decent 2009-10 in the Championship.  But I''d be lying if I said I wasn''t extremely worried about the likelihood of League One next season, and I maintain that this is no time for a novice.  Once more, this spineless excuse for a Board of Directors have once more let this fine club down and they must be held accountable.  Shame on you, Munby.  Shame on you, Doncaster.  Alas, Smith and Jones.  Once more you have failed every single one of us, the "fans who own the club," as you so blithely put it.

Good luck Bryan, but don''t say you weren''t warned.  This will not be easy.

[/quote]

Cowards way out by appointing someone Smith knew would not attract negative vibes...yet.

I fear "safety" is the name of the game in every way at NCFC... be it regarding league position or staff. I just hope an apparent legend (he wasn''t all that good) won''t become simply another of Smith''s cynical ploys and the one to take us down.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Badger"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Badger"]Mr C, nobody is denying the fact that the fans were referred to. there is no need to simply keep repeating the same quotations. How about being a little less selective though? From the same article"1. “I tried to watch the body language of the players" ... 2. "having a chat at half-time, as I understand it,

the dressing room was all about mutual encouragement" 3. "what I then

noticed was that players were not referring to the bench any more, they

were doing their own thing, playing intuitively.”4. City have been

at pains to accentuate the need for “yellow and green blood” in the new

regime - and the prospect of some continuity at the top desk. “I

think between them it''s 1,094 games for Norwich City as players over an

extended period of time,” said Munby. 5. “We have the added precedent that

the last time a former goalkeeper (Mike Walker) was manager of Norwich

City a) John Deehan was his assistant and b) it was the single most

successful season in the club''s history. That''s Norwich through and

through. 6. “Isn''t

that so much in the DNA of this football club? If you go back - Ron

Saunders succeeded by John Bond, Ken Brown, Dave Stringer, Mike Walker.

Each of those appointments from within. It would be great to rekindle

that sort of continuity.”Six other points made in the article about the appointment that you simply ignore so that you can put forward the myth that it was the board surrendering to the fans in "spineless" fashion. I repeat - You accuse THEM of spinning? [quote user="Mister Chops"]That''s why it''s a spineless appointment - they can''t even be straight with us about the reasons for hiring Gunn. [/quote]The central basis of your allegation is flawed. Your attempt to cover the facts does you little credit.

[/quote]Clearly the decision was not painted as being 100% "the fans'' choice."  But I think you have to acknowledge that the thrust of the EDP article indicates Munby et al viewed the fans opinions (based on one wobbly 45 minutes and one encouraging 45 minutes) as key to the selection process.[/quote]At last! This is exactly the point that I have been making - it was the thrust of the EDP article. They focussed upon one thing amongst a number that was said and chose to run with that as the headline and the opening paragraphs. Had they wished to, the EDP could have had a headline "Board determined to return to Norwich traditions" and spoken more about our (often) successful tradition of appointing from within.Alternatively, "Board influenced by the confidence factor" citing the extra confidence the players showed etc etc. For you to take the headline in isolation of the rest of the article, resulted in you (accidentally?) interpreting the boards decision as simply a "spineless" attempt tp placate the fans. I''m sure it was a significant factor  - nothing wrong with that - but it was a far more involved and considered than the "spineless" "spinning" decision that you potray.[/quote]Yes - but setting aside the rumour that Ince was offered the job and declined it - saying the fans had any influence on appointing the new manager, after the board made a desperate approach to Nigel Worthington - do you not see why, to say the least, it smells a bit fishy?

[Yellow Rider 0]

[quote user="John Boubepo"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="John Boubepo"]Its the character of the man which makes a good manager not experience.

Grant didn''t fail because he had no experience as manager, he failed because he was a complete plonker

Roeder failed even more so because he was a bigger plonker

Take a look at Norwich''s 3 most successful managers - Ken Brown and Dave Stringer had no managerial experience, Mike Walker had less than 12 months as manager at Colchester


[/quote]

With respect, John Boupepo, leaving aside the fact that I don''t remotely agree with your list of our most successful three managers (for starters you''ve left out Archie Macaulay, Ron Saunders and John Bond), you''re missing the point.

Even taking your list, Ken Brown had been an assistant manager, and Dave Stringer had been youth team coach (winning the FA Youth Cup) and reserve team manager. They both had coaching and managerial experience, albeit below the first-team level. They knew what they were doing when they were promoted.

The point that I and other people are making about Gunn is that he has no managerial or coaching experience whatsoever.

Put simply, the man in charge of our struggle against relegation has never done anything like this before.[/quote]

Ah good old Archie Macaulay, if I remember correctly his only managerial experience before taking over Norwich was at Guildford City, [bit like managing Blofield FC] John Bond had 3 years at Bournemouth and Ron Saunders 3 years in total at Yeovil Town and Oxford.

 Ken Brown, Mike Walker and Dave Stringer had one years experience between the 3 of them.

So in real terms if you take Norwich''s 6 most successful managers of all time, they only really had 7 years of [lowly] managerial experience between all of them before they turned their hand at being Norwich City''s boss!
[/quote]

Surely you miss the point John?

All those that you and Purple mentioned HAD varying degrees of previous ''managerial'' experience. By that we don''t have to mean ''FIRST TEAM'' experience. Look at what Stringer did before moving to the top job, all that was relevant ''management'' experience yet you dismiss these facts to try to back your view that people like Stringer really had no experience so Gunn is no worse in that respect!

He is of course!  

[singing canary 0]

thats why we have a first team coach... ian crook

gunn is the manager - he will manage!!!

 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,426]

Spot on. Add to that , the NEED to keep costs down and this was actually all the board could do. The win against Barnsely was Christmas Come Early for The Board, who had already agreed to appoint Boothroyd with Malky (and Fleming interestingly enough) until fate dealt them a nap hand in the shape of a win against one of the worst teams we have seen this year.

NCFC has become a political party in it''s own right. No honesty (Donkey denies that it was a financial decision when we all know that it was), spin all over the place (what difference does it make that all of the management team once played for City?), and desperate behind the scenes efforts to raise money from local businesses who have lost complete faith.

Imagine of they stood up and said, guys we are in a bloody mess and we need to go for money saving options here. I actually think the supporters would react very well. Instead we get this appointment made on the pretence of some kind of Community Spirit nonsense.

[Lurd 0]

Any proof that Aidy, Malky and Fleming were set to join? I very much doubt it..

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Larry David"]Any proof that Aidy, Malky and Fleming were set to join? I very much doubt it..
[/quote]

 

Since when has proof been a prerequisite of posting stuff to justify your particular viewpoint on here?

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,426]

[quote user="Larry David"]Any proof that Aidy, Malky and Fleming were set to join? I very much doubt it..
[/quote]

Yup. Friend of mine knows Flem very well.

[Bury Yellow 2]

Now now GPB how dare you come on here and upset the wets.

[Lurd 0]

Well, the truth will out I''m sure. Until then, I''ll remain as sceptical as ever.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,426]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]Now now GPB how dare you come on here and upset the wets.[/quote]

 

Strange isn''t it? You post a bit of info and get people calling you a liar and declaring themselves "sceptical". Oh well.

Ronaldo will sign for City in the morning. You heard it here first Larry.

[Badger 0]

[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

[quote user="Larry David"]Any proof that Aidy, Malky and Fleming were set to join? I very much doubt it..[/quote]

Yup. Friend of mine knows Flem very well.

[/quote]Was this before or after Worthington and Ince turned it down?

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,426]

[quote user="Badger"][quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

[quote user="Larry David"]Any proof that Aidy, Malky and Fleming were set to join? I very much doubt it..
[/quote]

Yup. Friend of mine knows Flem very well.

[/quote]

Was this before or after Worthington and Ince turned it down?
[/quote]

 

Don''t know the answer to that one Badger.

[Mello Yello 2,287]

[quote user="Larry David"]Well, the truth will out I''m sure. Until then, I''ll remain as sceptical as ever.[/quote]

Some are sceptical about what the club ''tell us''.....and some are sceptical about what posters "In the know" ''tell us''....

I continually hear ''snippets'' from friends and folk that are employed within Castle Carra -and I''m sure there are many, many, others like myself.....[:#] 

[Lurd 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

[quote user="Larry David"]Well, the truth will out I''m sure. Until then, I''ll remain as sceptical as ever.[/quote]

Some are sceptical about what the club ''tell us''.....and some are sceptical about what posters "In the know" ''tell us''....

I continually hear ''snippets'' from friends and folk that are employed within Castle Carra -and I''m sure there are many, many, others like myself.....[:#] 

[/quote]Just makes me laugh how people try and pass off second or third hand information as the truth, yet are never able to back it up with facts..

[Mello Yello 2,287]

[quote user="Larry David"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

[quote user="Larry David"]Well, the truth will out I''m sure. Until then, I''ll remain as sceptical as ever.[/quote]

Some are sceptical about what the club ''tell us''.....and some are sceptical about what posters "In the know" ''tell us''....

I continually hear ''snippets'' from friends and folk that are employed within Castle Carra -and I''m sure there are many, many, others like myself.....[:#] 

[/quote]

Just makes me laugh how people try and pass off second or third hand information as the truth, yet are never able to back it up with facts..
[/quote]

Why bother reading the forum then?....Wait till the NCFC Club media or the ''Chief'' tell it how it really is.....Which incidentally, makes me laugh....

[River End Rita 0]

You should try getting behind the team.

[the duke of norfolk 0]

My take on the appointment of Gunn is that Delia and Mike are off at the end of the season regardless of what happens.

The did not fancy dipping into their own pockets yet again to finance bringing in new manager in as they are off at the end of the season anyway and i think they couldn,t really give a damn anymore and just want out so they went for the ultra cheap option of Gunn etc and the new owners can come in and pick up the pieces to finance a new management team.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="the duke of norfolk"]

My take on the appointment of Gunn is that Delia and Mike are off at the end of the season regardless of what happens.

The did not fancy dipping into their own pockets yet again to finance bringing in new manager in as they are off at the end of the season anyway and i think they couldn,t really give a damn anymore and just want out so they went for the ultra cheap option of Gunn etc and the new owners can come in and pick up the pieces to finance a new management team.

[/quote]wouldn''t be surprised - wouldn''t like to be the new owners though...cos surely the share price (if listed publically) of NCFC would currently be valued as ''junk???''

[lucky green trainers 0]

reading through the posts - i bet some of the usual apologists are squirming right now...sorry to say - gunny let go of our top goalscorer/creator (nice price) and got in a tonne of anzac/scots dross,,,ouch...game over///

[Scot-e-dog 34]

[quote user="the duke of norfolk"]

My take on the appointment of Gunn is that Delia and Mike are off at the end of the season regardless of what happens.

The did not fancy dipping into their own pockets yet again to finance bringing in new manager in as they are off at the end of the season anyway and i think they couldn,t really give a damn anymore and just want out so they went for the ultra cheap option of Gunn etc and the new owners can come in and pick up the pieces to finance a new management team.

[/quote]I don''t think bringing Crook back from Aus was a particularly cheap option and one that had more to do with keeping the fans quiet than football.  The current board will be here for a while as Delia cannot bail out until someone buys her out.

[ca 1]

[quote user="Scot-e-dog"]
I don''t think bringing Crook back from Aus was a particularly cheap option and one that had more to do with keeping the fans quiet than football.  [/quote]

 

He''s kept him home over there, his wife and kids haven''t moved so I''m guessing we''re just paying him 3 months wages and his flights over so could have been worse I guess.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="MonkeyTrousers"]Now the Board had a big decision to make.  Experience?  Proven

ability to deliver results?  Nope.  Ignoring the fact that Forrest Gump

could have taken over from Roeder and the team would still have beaten

Barnsley, they turn to the temporary custodian of the manager''s

position, and once legendary goalkeeper, Bryan Gunn.  Recalling Crook

and Deehan in the bargain.What a weak, short-sighted and spineless gamble.[/quote]2 wins in 10 games.  No sign of a turnaround.In tonight''s post match interview:Reporter: "Will you be reading the riot act?"Gunn: "No, no way."Soft, soft, soft.  Pathetic.