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Mister Chops

Bryan Gunn, Costa del Colney and the spineless way out

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When Peter Grant was sacked, we rightly were angry about the perceived easy life of our footballing professionals.  "Costa del Colney", as it was tagged, was a place where footballers could pick up thousands of pounds a week for doing very little work in return.  They had it easy.  The establishment, under Worthy, then Grant, was cosy and unchallenging.  Change was needed.We got change in the form of Roeder.  He kicked out the lazy ones and kept us up.  To be fair, he made some poor decisions along the way but he kept us up and improved the squad.  Bye Murray, Strihavka, Brellier. Hello Bell, Hoolahan, Clingan.But then Roeder was rude to a few people and revealed himself to be an arrogant fool who had lost the confidence of the players.  After the shambles of the ''59ers tribute match, which looked more like a bunch of strangers in retro kit struggling to identify each other, Roeder was fired.And now the Board had a big decision to make.  Experience?  Proven ability to deliver results?  Nope.  Ignoring the fact that Forrest Gump could have taken over from Roeder and the team would still have beaten Barnsley, they turn to the temporary custodian of the manager''s position, and once legendary goalkeeper, Bryan Gunn.  Recalling Crook and Deehan in the bargain.What a weak, short-sighted and spineless gamble."Prudence with ambition," Doncaster repeatedly said.  What is prudent or ambitious about gambling our championship survival on an untried, untested manager?What is prudent or ambitious about the knee-jerk reaction which says that "Roeder annoyed people so let''s get someone in who everyone likes?"What is prudent or ambitious about appointing a management team which consists of some Australian coaching, a failed ex-Norwich City manager and a man whose career path is "Sheriff of Norwich.... head of Player Recruitment.... er.... Norwich City manager"?Nothing prudent.   Nothing ambitious.  It is desperation from the board, pure and simple, and Gunny is the main fall guy.  No experience despite 10 years in a cosy backroom club job.  Welcome back Costa del Colney. "We need someone who understands the club," they say.  "We need a local."  Is this the League of Gentlemen?  Apart from Dario Gradi, only local to Crewe because he''s been there since 10AD, who else can you name from the "local club for local people" school of footballing philosophy?This is a sad day for the football club.  It is the day we turned our back on ambition and embraced local mediocrity.  For years now, Doncaster and Delia have been bleating about "affordable family football."  This is what we''re going to get.  Nice little Norwich City with Nice little Bryan "I used to be Sheriff" Gunn in charge, that nice Ian "gis a fag" Crook as coach and John "I''m eighty-nine years old" Deehan as chief scout and management mentor.  "Hey Bryan .... when I was boss, I did this.  Don''t do that."  Great insight.Welcome back, Costa del Colney.  Welcome back the arm round the shoulder, "don''t worry lads, you did your best" school of management.  Christ, I want to vomit at this pathetic abdication of responsibilities by the board supposedly in place to promote the best interests of this football club.  Of course I will back this management team, and I hope they stuff every single word I''ve typed here back down my throat as we win half of our remaining games, finish 14th and prepare for a decent 2009-10 in the Championship.  But I''d be lying if I said I wasn''t extremely worried about the likelihood of League One next season, and I maintain that this is no time for a novice.  Once more, this spineless excuse for a Board of Directors have once more let this fine club down and they must be held accountable.  Shame on you, Munby.  Shame on you, Doncaster.  Alas, Smith and Jones.  Once more you have failed every single one of us, the "fans who own the club," as you so blithely put it.Good luck Bryan, but don''t say you weren''t warned.  This will not be easy.

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Excellent post ''Mr Chops'' I tto have posted my frustration on this forum.

People wil say we should get behind this new ''Dream Team'' but I find it hard to take it all to seroiusly, it looked a joke.

I was waiting for Doncaster to say " ... well we looked at FACEBOOK and everyone was saying get Gunn"!!!!

How much do they get paid to make these stupid decissions!!

As with you I hope I''m wrong,

I feel so angry though, : PICTURE the secne:  Delia, Munby and Doncaster: " well worthy doesn''t want it, best we give it Gunn, hes yellow through and through!!"

 

Cheers

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Absolutely brilliant post. I agree with it completely and I was only talking about costa del colney returning earlier.

Did anyone actually get interviewed for the job? It was always going to be Gunn from the moment he got the caretaker role, and he knew it too.

This club is pathetic, a complete laughing stock.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"]When Peter Grant was sacked, we rightly were angry about the perceived easy life of our footballing professionals.  "Costa del Colney", as it was tagged, was a place where footballers could pick up thousands of pounds a week for doing very little work in return.  They had it easy.  The establishment, under Worthy, then Grant, was cosy and unchallenging.  Change was needed.

We got change in the form of Roeder.  He kicked out the lazy ones and kept us up.  To be fair, he made some poor decisions along the way but he kept us up and improved the squad.  Bye Murray, Strihavka, Brellier. Hello Bell, Hoolahan, Clingan.

But then Roeder was rude to a few people and revealed himself to be an arrogant fool who had lost the confidence of the players.  After the shambles of the ''59ers tribute match, which looked more like a bunch of strangers in retro kit struggling to identify each other, Roeder was fired.

And now the Board had a big decision to make.  Experience?  Proven ability to deliver results?  Nope.  Ignoring the fact that Forrest Gump could have taken over from Roeder and the team would still have beaten Barnsley, they turn to the temporary custodian of the manager''s position, and once legendary goalkeeper, Bryan Gunn.  Recalling Crook and Deehan in the bargain.

What a weak, short-sighted and spineless gamble.

"Prudence with ambition," Doncaster repeatedly said.  What is prudent or ambitious about gambling our championship survival on an untried, untested manager?

What is prudent or ambitious about the knee-jerk reaction which says that "Roeder annoyed people so let''s get someone in who everyone likes?"

What is prudent or ambitious about appointing a management team which consists of some Australian coaching, a failed ex-Norwich City manager and a man whose career path is "Sheriff of Norwich.... head of Player Recruitment.... er.... Norwich City manager"?

Nothing prudent.   Nothing ambitious.  It is desperation from the board, pure and simple, and Gunny is the main fall guy.  No experience despite 10 years in a cosy backroom club job.  Welcome back Costa del Colney.

"We need someone who understands the club," they say.  "We need a local."  Is this the League of Gentlemen?  Apart from Dario Gradi, only local to Crewe because he''s been there since 10AD, who else can you name from the "local club for local people" school of footballing philosophy?

This is a sad day for the football club.  It is the day we turned our back on ambition and embraced local mediocrity.  For years now, Doncaster and Delia have been bleating about "affordable family football."  This is what we''re going to get.  Nice little Norwich City with Nice little Bryan "I used to be Sheriff" Gunn in charge, that nice Ian "gis a fag" Crook as coach and John "I''m eighty-nine years old" Deehan as chief scout and management mentor.  "Hey Bryan .... when I was boss, I did this.  Don''t do that."  Great insight.

Welcome back, Costa del Colney.  Welcome back the arm round the shoulder, "don''t worry lads, you did your best" school of management.  Christ, I want to vomit at this pathetic abdication of responsibilities by the board supposedly in place to promote the best interests of this football club. 

Of course I will back this management team, and I hope they stuff every single word I''ve typed here back down my throat as we win half of our remaining games, finish 14th and prepare for a decent 2009-10 in the Championship.  But I''d be lying if I said I wasn''t extremely worried about the likelihood of League One next season, and I maintain that this is no time for a novice.  Once more, this spineless excuse for a Board of Directors have once more let this fine club down and they must be held accountable.  Shame on you, Munby.  Shame on you, Doncaster.  Alas, Smith and Jones.  Once more you have failed every single one of us, the "fans who own the club," as you so blithely put it.

Good luck Bryan, but don''t say you weren''t warned.  This will not be easy.

[/quote]

Fantastic post Chops!

I was fuming when I initially heard this news and echo all your sentiments posted above. Gunn/Crook/Deehan are three of my all time favourite players for the club but the job in hand was  to appoint somebody to move this club forward, I sincerely extend my best wishes to the "gang of three" but totally agree with what I ahve highlighted in your post.

Forest show ambition and get a proven/ambitious manager in Billy Davies and LIL'' OLD NORWICH just get smaller and smaller........

Another failure Delia in the making you truly have no idea as admitted at the AGM!, the day you leave this club will as Gunny said probably "be the fourth happiest day in my life!"

DELIA OUT!

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Completely agree with this. I''m just as worried as you and was just as dissapointed at 9.15 after being adamant I would hear a proven football manager would take over at our club. The board do not have a clue. This could break the club, and Gunny''s involvment with the club in the worst scenario.

But like you, I want to be proven wrong ...

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Don''t beat about the bush, Mr Chops, tell us what you think!

I''m with you until about 1/3 of the way down.  Why should everything be ''costa del Norwich'' under Gunn/Crook?  Is it not remotely worth giving them a go before being quite as pessimistic as you are being?   It is extremely short-sighted of you to belittle what Deehan and Crook have done since having been here before - do you even know?  Deehan has fantastic links in the game - it is not as if he has been out of it - and Crook is meant to be very highly thought of, most people were clamouring for him to come back and yet you are dismissive of it.

IMO we could have easily taken someone like Ince (or anyone else) on, but I''m far from convinced they would have been any more likely to succeed than Gunn is.  Promoting from within is not a bad idea and often works - it brings a stability to things and it is no surprise that the era that gave us a line of Bond-Brown-Stringer-Walker, doing pretty much that, was the best in our history.  It ended with Deehan, who was promoted from within, but at that stage things were clearly going tits-up behind the scenes and I do wonder whether anyone could have done any better. 

Perhaps Gunn could be the start of a new line of successful managers, I don''t know - but I sure as hell wouldn''t slate him and it before he has even had a chance.

 

 

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[quote user="alex_ncfc"]

Absolutely brilliant post. I agree with it completely and I was only talking about costa del colney returning earlier.

Did anyone actually get interviewed for the job? It was always going to be Gunn from the moment he got the caretaker role, and he knew it too.

This club is pathetic, a complete laughing stock.

[/quote]

To whom, exactly?  Living in London I know supporters of dozens of sides, and whilst none think the appointment was a particular surprise, nor do they think of it as a bad one.  The thought that our club is considered a "laughing stock" seems to only occur to our own supporters....I''m not sure what that tells you.

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Yes the squad seems to have improved but the  results haven''t, and were actually much better (in this league) under Worthy with his relaxed style. I think your post is well thought out and written, Mr Chops but I''m inclined to think that this management team have just as much chance as any other. They may be ''nice'' but let''s give them a chance to show that their approach works. And if it doesn''t, then the board will be in trouble because everyone likes them less!

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You wont find anyone on this board who was more critical of Grant, Grant''s appointment and Grant''s character the same goes for Roeder, this was from day one on both counts.I have been very critical of the board, [as my posts show] on their previous naivety on appointments, The Gunn + old boys appointment I believe is actually a very good move for many reasons.With 18 games left the team, club and fans need an immediate lift, this management team will provide just that. Sometimes you have to give credit where credit is due, the board have boll@xed things up time and time again but I strongly believe sacking Roeder was 100% the right move and bringing in Gunn was equally right, it is also a very clever and very shrewed.The new management team have a huge wealth of character, too many to list here, sadly Roeder had very little in his locker, except arrogance, bitterness and self importance, he didn''t have the ability to make anyone feel good, did you ever see him even laugh or smile? - team spirit! what team spirit?I''m sure the team, club and supporters will be lifted by this appointment, I for one am confident relegation will be avoided and this appointment will bring a togetherness which has been missing for long, long time

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Who do you negatives sorts want then, afterall theirs no such thing as the perfect manager!

 

I said on Saturday that you could of got someone out of the crowd and they''d of still beat Barnsley cause of the massive positive effect everyone and the players felt by Roedernowhere not being there!

 

 

But this is the cheapest option and the best option after Boothroyd and Mackay given the current state of the club!

 

This is certainly less risky than paying out loads to an outsider who''d want a 3 year deal and his own staff coming in!

 

Bryan Gunns extensive knowledge of the club, his people skills, ability to motivate, willingness to delegate and general respect he commands makes him better qualified for the job than Roeder ever was and puts him ahead of most others!

 

Anyway Crook and yet unnamed assist together with Tommy Wright and Deehan will do much of the work. I think Gunny will be more of calming, likeable, confident highly motivated figurehead who''ll do all the media stuff with ease, keeping the peace, assessing the situation and team talks - all atributes Roeder sadly lacked!

 

After the disasterous effects of the Roeder era we need some unity at the club and that means someone the players will play for, doesn''t upset everyone and causes little disruption.

 

Bryan Gunn fits the bill whether some except it or not! 

 

Remember what fellow club legend Dave Stringer done from 87-92 after getting the job despite never been a manager before!

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[quote user="John Boubepo"]You wont find anyone on this board who was more critical of Grant, Grant''s appointment and Grant''s character the same goes for Roeder, this was from day one on both counts.

I have been very critical of the board, [as my posts show] on their previous naivety on appointments, The Gunn + old boys appointment I believe is actually a very good move for many reasons.

With 18 games left the team, club and fans need an immediate lift, this management team will provide just that. Sometimes you have to give credit where credit is due, the board have boll@xed things up time and time again but I strongly believe sacking Roeder was 100% the right move and bringing in Gunn was equally right, it is also a very clever and very shrewed.

The new management team have a huge wealth of character, too many to list here, sadly Roeder had very little in his locker, except arrogance, bitterness and self importance, he didn''t have the ability to make anyone feel good, did you ever see him even laugh or smile? - team spirit! what team spirit?

I''m sure the team, club and supporters will be lifted by this appointment, I for one am confident relegation will be avoided and this appointment will bring a togetherness which has been missing for long, long time
[/quote]

Spot on.  IMO what we needed is a lift, something for the supporters to get behind from the off, and imo that is what we''ve got.  Yes there are some who aren''t convinced (I''m sure we all have a level of doubt, but for me it is no more than with any manager), but that would always be the case.

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Totally agree with you Mr. Chops, it''s a great post. I think we all want Gunn to succeed, but appointing another novice manager when we''re only 2 points above the relegation zone isn''t a responsible decision. It''s based on a panic over season ticket renewals, not football.

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Why the sneering, patronising attitude to the new management team Mr. Chops? Why the assumption that they are all half-wits & simpletons with no backbone? It seems a big assumption to me. Perhaps you could furnish us with some reasons for your opimion - you may well be right, but, if so, you must know something the rest of us don''t.

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What a relief, there are at least then a few sane supporters among us who can see this for what it is (absolute madness) yet still wish the new management team all the very best nonetheless.Still, if as we suspect the worst does happen we can be fairly confident this time that the fans will turn squarely on the board rather than the management team and we will at least be able to see the back of them before preparing for life in Division one.

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GREAT POST CHOPS!! Nail on the head! When I saw the shit that was unfolding at carrow road I slung my sky remote at the wall and felt as much anti climax as when muppet Roeder walked through the door. Absolutely no ambition. If they really wanted to back Gunn, why only have him on a til the end of the season contract? Doesnt seem they have much optimism. Great guy Gunn and I don''t have a bad word to say about him but manager of Norwich City????? I''m not so sure. As far as the fans support goes, it wasnt so long ago I was sitting at carrow road with 13''000 fans on average. Where were the 24000 then????? Now all of a sudden its oooohhhh we get 24000 week in week out at home!!! I''m sure a couple of more bad seasons we will be in a half empty carrow road watching the same shit football with an incompetent board but this time we will be in league one. P.S we will always be a family club because Norwich is one big retirement home. I want it all to work out but things just never change in a positive way. Gunn was the cheapest option as we knew deep down they would make that appointment. Munby is a twat, doncaster a muppet and Delia and MWJ the chuckle brothers. To me, to you? Fuck off!!!!

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Excellent post mr chops, agree with you 100%. i was so dissappointed to wake up and find gunny in charge. We needed someone who would continue with the few aspects of roeders regime that actually benefitted us ie. Closed doors colney and limited press access. These were a few (I mean very few) things i actually agreed with. I was expecting the next manager, to come in with his new ideas and new connections to continue with this non holiday camp type training. However with gunn in charge this will be thrown out the window. Most of the players have been quoted saying that they really enjoy working under gunn, breath of fresh air and what not, but i can''t help but think how the training sessions themselves might eventually be run by the players themselves and are allowed to swan about the training ground putting in no effort whatsoever with gunn standing there going ''oh come now don''t do that''. I really hope I am wrong, and the change of discipline won''t mean the players will start to take the biscuit and next season we start with a piss poor squad who are unfit and put no work in.

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I think you are taklking complete garbage. How can you say "Once more, this spineless excuse for a Board of Directors have once more let this fine club down" when the only thing that''s happened so far is for the manager with no managerial experience to win the first game 4-0. That doesn''t mean the opposite either, that this is the best thing to ever happen to this club. But for you to judge that the club has been let down before they have had the chance to do anything is a little sad.

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I really fear that you are right, Mr C, though appointing a manager is such an inexact science that anyone is a risk. The thing that befuddled me was how much store Munby seemed to be putting on Saturday''s result. At one point he seemed to say that we won purely because Bryan was standing on the touchline looking calm. I would have thought it was obvious that anyone would have lifted the team after Roeder''s departure, and that a 4-0 win over Barnsley, while welcome and crucial, doesn''t really prove very much. And yet this one-off performance seems to have got him the job.If I had to list my favourite City players, Gunny would be number one and Crook would be in the top five. I will back them to the hilt and never boo either of them. But I can''t say that this was the right decision. I really hope I''m wrong.on the ball, city.

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The one thing that I am hopeful about is Crooky. I think your portrayal of him as a jovial waster ("gis a fag") is surely wrong. You don''t play at the top level as long as he did without real drive, and his coaching seems to be highly thought of. I think we might have done well here. Certainly hope so.

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I have to agree with every word as well.

Over the past few years I have stood up to support a series of crap managers and the board. I will do this no longer.

To all those I have argued against of belittled, I was wrong, you were right.

I wantr Brian to succseed as much as any one else, but I fear for the club now.

I just wish people would take off their yellow and green spectacles and see what is happening.

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Understand your frustration Mr Chops, however it is very simplistic to say that GR was sacked because "he was rude to a few people", results on the field and our perilous position had a lot to do with it. I agree that GR assembled a better squad, unfortunately he could not get the best from them. As for Gunn and co, it is only to the end of the season, and what we need is somebody to get the best out of the squad we have and I think this management team will be the one to do it.

Longer term I agree we should be looking for a manager with the right mix of man management skills and steel so that we can progress

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Top post, Mr Chops.

I think we now have to accept that NCFC is not our club anymore but belongs squarely to the muppets on the Board who really don''t give a fig about having a succesful football team as long as there are 20,000+ ''supporters'' at every home game!

Sadly i think it''s League One here we come! [:(]

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hard hitting post choppo - but gets right to the very heart of the matter...these appointments come from a board who''s first thought was to approach worthy...doh,,,they clearly didn''t trust themselves to pick the right man, so tried to draw in someone they did trust from his time here - fair enough,,,but the manner in which he left made the notion an utter non-starter///imo - the dressing room picked our new management team///i wish the NCFC legends all the very best...but make no mistake,,,they need to petition the board for adequate funds to credibly finance 3 experienced new players to shore up our leaky defence (rb and cb) and a new proven striker to score the goals to keep us up...we won''t be playing barnsley every week...from what i remember of duffy/gunn - they bought hartson in and played a young spillane at CB (where he looked as out of his depth as troy would''ve)...oh - and lappin at left back,,,ouch...for my money - grounds (a leftback) is no more than a back up cb...we need a partner for the doc,,,and cort was clearly a desparate gamble by roedy thats gone west - imo he''s unfit,,,not just un-match fit,,,and even if not, with his injury record trusting our league status to him is not worth the risk...so - no gambles gunny - get proven, fit, credible men in who can do the job and stop us sliding into league 1...else - it could be a case of ''lambs to the slaughter'' - and that would be very sad for all concerned, make no mistake...

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I agree very much with the gist and overall direction of your post Chops, well done!

However, I hope (and believe) that you have done a disservice to Deehan and Crook as I''m confident they will prove to be valuable additions to the club.

What annoys me is that by ANY objective criteria when looking at ''previous management experience, ''previous coaching experience'', ''track record'' etc. then the likes of Boothroyd and Ince (although I would not haved welcomed his appointment) MUST HAVE BEEN MILES AHEAD OF GUNN!!. You simply cannot argue it any other way.

Now, to be fair, we then have to look at ''man management'' which as we all know is much harder to ''put a score against''. So maybe Gunn edged past the others in that area but I can''t see that he would have been so far ahead in that attribute as to clawback the massive deficit he has in other areas (see above).

Quite simply, the Board have set IMO quite unacceptable criteria for any OUTSIDE candidate to reasonably fulfill and I beleive those critera were as follows:

1. Your contract is until 3rd May ONLY - then we will review the situation

2. We have NO transfer kitty of any significance, the club is c£20M in debt

3. You MUST appoint an ex Norwich ''legend'' in some senior capacity (ND hinted at this on Radio Norfolk on Saturday last)      

On that basis, Ince, Dowie etc. quickly fell at the first. Boothroyd (if he could have bought Malky) might still have been a runner but the Board have been obsessed with their opinion that he only has one style of play and that was not ''the Norwich way''. I think Boothroyd has been wrongly stereotyped and why the hell would he have expressed such interest in the job if he knew he would be unable to play that way??  

Yes - I very much wanted some ex Norwich people back in senior roles but ONLY if they are the BEST for the jobs. On  NO basis can Gunn be said to fit that. Sorry. ''Outsiders''can work - look at Owen Coyle at Burnley as just one example.  

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I think its a huge gamble - and given the Boards history of gambles - a very scary big gamble in terms of staying in the division. However I think its also a big gamble in terms of the Boards position. They may have thought about this, or maybe they haven''t, but if things go badly wrong, Gunny and Crook are bigger legends at City then the Board will ever be. I don''t think they will ever become the scapegoats like Roeder and Worthington became. Which could leave the board in a very precarious position. Exciting times......?

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From my understanding of events, Gunn compiled and took his team of ex-City mates to the board to strengthen his claims for the job, as these people complemented his abilities and gave a level of coaching and managerial experience that he knew made him a weaker candidate. So whilst one can blame the board for picking Gunn and his team, it was Gunn who chose to construct his team from ex players, calculating that this would appeal to the baord and fans.   

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[quote user="astrodyne"]I think its a huge gamble - and given the Boards history of gambles - a very scary big gamble in terms of staying in the division. However I think its also a big gamble in terms of the Boards position. They may have thought about this, or maybe they haven''t, but if things go badly wrong, Gunny and Crook are bigger legends at City then the Board will ever be. I don''t think they will ever become the scapegoats like Roeder and Worthington became. Which could leave the board in a very precarious position. Exciting times......? [/quote]So presumably it is both a "very scary big gamble" and "spineless." I don''t suppose that anyone might have considered for a second that a group of people, with a significant proportion of their savings tied up in the club might have looked at the alternatives and thought this was the best bet? The idea that they will have taken a decision for any other reason defies logic. You might not agree with the decision but chances are I might not have disagreed with yours. Bottom line is that the board have the most to lose and have to go with their own judgement. PS - looking back at some of the message board "experts" recommendations for alternative managers in the Worthington debate makes interesting reading!

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