Is damage limitation now Roeder's priority?

[Beauseant 0]

I thought I''d wait until today to post to see if a night''s sleep made me less angry or change my view, but it didn''t.

When Roeder was appointed I thought it was a good move given the state of the club, and there is no doubt that his initial impact was very positive, although we declined alarmingly in the latter part of the season. This season I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, largely because I couldn''t see how we could afford to get rid of him. Without doubt he has had some bad luck with injuries, particularly losing Steffy and Kennedy, and we have played some pretty football in the old Norwich City style, but we are now looking down the barrel and League One is a looming reality. Even very recently I expressed the view that to change managers now would be too much of  arisk and make relegation more likely, but I have to admit that I have now changed my view.

While I do not attend as many games as some of you who go home and away, I can honestly say that I have watched or listened to all but three of our games this season,so I hope my view is objective. Whilst its easy to quote our lack of firepower, our lack of a creative midfield playmaker and our lack of finances, my particular reason for believing that, whatever the cost Roeder has to go now is the apparent lack of a will to win emanating form the bench. It was clear yesterday that Sheffield United were poor at the back and Adams noted several times that  deliveries into the box and balls that turned defenders caused them huge problems and created chances for us, yet we left our big target man on the bench when we were pushing for a late equaliser, then pushed Doc upfront. However,rather than bomb the box it appeared that we favoured intricate short passing movements that eventually disappeared up their own backsides. Added to this is the apparent lack of passion amongst the players reported by several who went to the game, and the inevitable post match interview where Roeder bemoaned bad luck in front of goal and siad he was happy with the performance!

The question that this raises in my mind is whether Roeder now has a mentality of damage limitation rather than the "go for broke" approach that we expect to see when trailing late on. I was always coached that it doesn''t matter if you lose 1-0 or 3-0, as long as you try to get something out of the game. We don''t appear to be working to that maxim. Add this to the increasingly bizarre team selections and substitutions and a picture starts to emerge of a struggling manager with a siege mentality and a stubborn desire to prove his critics wrong by presenting himself as some sort of footballing Zen master.

I don''t care that Roeder isn''t likeable. I didn''t like Ron Saunders or his style of football, but he got results. I would happily forgive Roeder his remarks at the AGM and in the press if he made us winners, but we are going backwards, and terminal decline seems very close. Let''s at least give ourselves a chance by getting rid of him now!

 

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Very relevent post!

 

Though I think our upsurge when Roeder 1st came in was a case of ''new manager'' syndrome rather than Roeder himself!

 

Things for me haven''t been right since January 2008 when the prat changed a winning team to include useless loanees Gibbs and Henry!

 

Our record in the last yearhows that we''ve onlty hjad the odd positive result sandwiched inbetween lots of rubbish results!

 

I think our best chance of avoiding the drop is if we get shot of the idiot manager we have!

 

Roeder out!

[Bury Yellow 2]

A thoughtful and well presented point of view Beauseant,

I was at the game yesterday and concur with others views who were there.

I would also add that yet another worry regarding coaching etc is the obvious lack of any planning as to what to do with the ball when we are defending deep into our half and eventually win the ball. The player with the ball appears to have no idea what to do other than hump the ball anywhere in a state of mild panic. Do the coaching staff have no instruction for this position? For example - two players make space by running diagonally towards each of the oppositions corner flags. That way the player under pressure just has to lump in that direction and we at least have a chance of putting pressure on the opposition.

All very simplistic but just highlights what a poor set up we have now. I openly admit I am a Lee Clarke admirer and as a poster elsewhere has stated, we have no real leaders in the club now. The last leaving us was Clarke and we are left with a coaching team with no record of sucesss. Indeed, who the hell are they?

The only positive note is, that if Roeder goes, his coaching staff must go too, so at least we have a clean break this time.

I hate this board of ours but they must act now!

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

To expand the Roeder debate a little, a learned friend of mine with plenty of connections in the Professional game made a very interesting point to me last week. He knows Roeder, and says that what we are seeing is a desperation that (in his view) uncharacteristically has become an arrogance because GR simply will not get another job in football at anything like the level he craves if he gets the sack. His CV currently reads "did Ok to start with but then tailed off dramatically" at each of the last 3 or 4 jobs he has had. GR will never resign because he knows he is drinking in Last Chance Saloon.

A few other factors to bear in mind with Roeder. He lives in a very nice rented house in Bridgham , with paddocks etc , as he and his wife are very keen on horses. I actually wonder how bothered he is about City, instead merely sees this job as a meal ticket to do what he enjoys most (Newmarket Races) and take his children fishing. I think he has given up and is now entrenched much like Worthy became , only instead of waiting for his money to support his sons at Greshams like Worthy did , GR is now taking the Kings Shilling to support his interests. GR is, without any doubt, finished at NCFC and is hiding behind his contract.

NCFC will need to sack him to stay up, that is obvious. It should be done to give a new manager a vestige of activity in the January window. Why not give Darren Fergusen a part time job? Three days a week with him would be better than we have now.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

To expand the Roeder debate a little, a learned friend of mine with plenty of connections in the Professional game made a very interesting point to me last week. He knows Roeder, and says that what we are seeing is a desperation that (in his view) uncharacteristically has become an arrogance because GR simply will not get another job in football at anything like the level he craves if he gets the sack. His CV currently reads "did Ok to start with but then tailed off dramatically" at each of the last 3 or 4 jobs he has had. GR will never resign because he knows he is drinking in Last Chance Saloon.

A few other factors to bear in mind with Roeder. He lives in a very nice rented house in Bridgham , with paddocks etc , as he and his wife are very keen on horses. I actually wonder how bothered he is about City, instead merely sees this job as a meal ticket to do what he enjoys most (Newmarket Races) and take his children fishing. I think he has given up and is now entrenched much like Worthy became , only instead of waiting for his money to support his sons at Greshams like Worthy did , GR is now taking the Kings Shilling to support his interests. GR is, without any doubt, finished at NCFC and is hiding behind his contract.

NCFC will need to sack him to stay up, that is obvious. It should be done to give a new manager a vestige of activity in the January window. Why not give Darren Fergusen a part time job? Three days a week with him would be better than we have now.

[/quote]

 

Interesting points GPB. I totally agree that Roeder is highly  unlikely to get another high profile job, and the desperation that your friend notes ties in with the siege mentality theory. Ferguson would be an interesting choice, but I suspect that his contract at Posh would ensure very high compensation payments.

[PhatCanary 0]

 

Good posts one and all,It is obvious Roeder should go but when have the board ever seen the obvious and acted, i really fear that not enough fans are actually going to bother to show their true feelings at the next home games and Roeder will be left to ruin the club.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="PhatCanary"]

 

Good posts one and all,It is obvious Roeder should go but when have the board ever seen the obvious and acted, i really fear that not enough fans are actually going to bother to show their true feelings at the next home games and Roeder will be left to ruin the club.

[/quote]

 

While chants have an impact I think it would require a significant boycott of a game to really have much impact. However, it shouldn''t require that as it must be painfully obvious how bad things are!

[Binky 0]

Agree with your original post Beausant - though I''m not sure I like your reference to Ron Saunders. Saunders was tough and I think he was quite liked - but above all he was respected by players and fans (just ask Stringer or Forbes). Roeder fails miserably in the respect stakes. As for the game yesterday, I thought Bell was going to do the trick with some decent crosses: if ever there was a game where I would  have liked to have seen Lappin in a wide midfield role that was it.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

Excellent post Beauseant. I''d love to see Ferguson Jr come in, i think he''d do an excellent job. Of course it''s entirely hypothetical at this stage but i''d much rather take a punt on a young, hungry and thus far, successful manager than an experienced manager with an already healthy bank balance and a recent failure on his CV. With reference to the point you made about Posh wanting hefty compensation, I''m going to assume that there was a large sell on clause involved in the Lewis transfer, could this be negotiated away? However much Lewis eventually leaves Posh for it wont equal the value of our Championship survival.

[Badger 0]

[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

To expand the Roeder debate a little, a learned friend of mine with plenty of connections in the Professional game made a very interesting point to me last week. He knows Roeder, and says that what we are seeing is a desperation that (in his view) uncharacteristically has become an arrogance because GR simply will not get another job in football at anything like the level he craves if he gets the sack. His CV currently reads "did Ok to start with but then tailed off dramatically" at each of the last 3 or 4 jobs he has had. GR will never resign because he knows he is drinking in Last Chance Saloon.

A few other factors to bear in mind with Roeder. He lives in a very nice rented house in Bridgham , with paddocks etc , as he and his wife are very keen on horses. I actually wonder how bothered he is about City, instead merely sees this job as a meal ticket to do what he enjoys most (Newmarket Races) and take his children fishing. I think he has given up and is now entrenched much like Worthy became , only instead of waiting for his money to support his sons at Greshams like Worthy did , GR is now taking the Kings Shilling to support his interests. GR is, without any doubt, finished at NCFC and is hiding behind his contract.

NCFC will need to sack him to stay up, that is obvious. It should be done to give a new manager a vestige of activity in the January window. Why not give Darren Fergusen a part time job? Three days a week with him would be better than we have now.

[/quote]It seems to me that the two points you make directly contradict each other. On the one hand he is deperate but on the other he couldn''t care!

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Binky"]Agree with your original post Beausant - though I''m not sure I like your reference to Ron Saunders. Saunders was tough and I think he was quite liked - but above all he was respected by players and fans (just ask Stringer or Forbes). Roeder fails miserably in the respect stakes. As for the game yesterday, I thought Bell was going to do the trick with some decent crosses: if ever there was a game where I would  have liked to have seen Lappin in a wide midfield role that was it.
[/quote]

 

The point that I was trying to make was that Saunders was a person who didn''t worry too much about diplomacy, and certainly was prepared to make himself unpopular rather than compromise his principles .However,as I pointed out, he got the job done, and the club owes him a great deal. As you rightly say, he was respected , which is not something that Roeder has achieved.

[Harleston Canary 0]

[quote user="Badger"][quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

To expand the Roeder debate a little, a learned friend of mine with plenty of connections in the Professional game made a very interesting point to me last week. He knows Roeder, and says that what we are seeing is a desperation that (in his view) uncharacteristically has become an arrogance because GR simply will not get another job in football at anything like the level he craves if he gets the sack. His CV currently reads "did Ok to start with but then tailed off dramatically" at each of the last 3 or 4 jobs he has had. GR will never resign because he knows he is drinking in Last Chance Saloon.

A few other factors to bear in mind with Roeder. He lives in a very nice rented house in Bridgham , with paddocks etc , as he and his wife are very keen on horses. I actually wonder how bothered he is about City, instead merely sees this job as a meal ticket to do what he enjoys most (Newmarket Races) and take his children fishing. I think he has given up and is now entrenched much like Worthy became , only instead of waiting for his money to support his sons at Greshams like Worthy did , GR is now taking the Kings Shilling to support his interests. GR is, without any doubt, finished at NCFC and is hiding behind his contract.

NCFC will need to sack him to stay up, that is obvious. It should be done to give a new manager a vestige of activity in the January window. Why not give Darren Fergusen a part time job? Three days a week with him would be better than we have now.

[/quote]

It seems to me that the two points you make directly contradict each other. On the one hand he is deperate but on the other he couldn''t care!
[/quote]

The two point don''t contracict each other.  Graham Paddon''s Beard''s post confirms a horrible suspicion I had about Roeder from the outset - he saw us as a means of resurrecting a mediocre career.  What Beard is saying (correct me if I''m wrong) is that deep down Roeder is desperate at the moment for personal reasons relating to his standing in the game and his reputation - he couldn''t care less about the club per se.  Secondly, he loves the lifestyle associated with living in this part of the country, and only wants to hold on to his job to maintain that.

His attittude has the hallmarks of a personally desperate situation.  I''m sure we''ve all seen colleagues in a similar position: they take for granted the perks of the job, but hate what the job actually entails.  This breads cynicism and negativity.

He won''t resign for these reasons.  If we are relegated Glenn will quickly speak about the opportunity to completely rebuild and come back stronger (because again that suits his personal situation).

He''ll have to be sacked.

[ron obvious 1,501]

[quote user="Badger"][quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

To expand the Roeder debate a little, a learned friend of mine with plenty of connections in the Professional game made a very interesting point to me last week. He knows Roeder, and says that what we are seeing is a desperation that (in his view) uncharacteristically has become an arrogance because GR simply will not get another job in football at anything like the level he craves if he gets the sack. His CV currently reads "did Ok to start with but then tailed off dramatically" at each of the last 3 or 4 jobs he has had. GR will never resign because he knows he is drinking in Last Chance Saloon.

A few other factors to bear in mind with Roeder. He lives in a very nice rented house in Bridgham , with paddocks etc , as he and his wife are very keen on horses. I actually wonder how bothered he is about City, instead merely sees this job as a meal ticket to do what he enjoys most (Newmarket Races) and take his children fishing. I think he has given up and is now entrenched much like Worthy became , only instead of waiting for his money to support his sons at Greshams like Worthy did , GR is now taking the Kings Shilling to support his interests. GR is, without any doubt, finished at NCFC and is hiding behind his contract.

NCFC will need to sack him to stay up, that is obvious. It should be done to give a new manager a vestige of activity in the January window. Why not give Darren Fergusen a part time job? Three days a week with him would be better than we have now.

[/quote]It seems to me that the two points you make directly contradict each other. On the one hand he is deperate but on the other he couldn''t care![/quote]Good point (about the points).I think a lot of our reading of the situation is that we think all decisions are conscious ones - I swear some people here think Roeder & the players go out with a couldn''t-care-less attitude from the start. I don''t thimk so.It''s more that their self-confidence & belief is purely superficial. They have become so used to losing that, whatever they might tell themselves, they don''t have the inner resources needed to really compete, to battle it out & force a result.Why has it come to this? The usual mixture of bad luck & bad management. I''m sure Glenn is convinced that trying to play good football is the way forward, that results will necessarily follow. Unfortunately sometimes it needs more than this; it needs an ability to galvanise your team when things are going against you.Sometimes teams perform badly because of fear of failure. They get to a point where all hope seems lost, whereupon they relax, start playing  & start winning again. I don''t think this is what is happening though.If a strong, inspirational character doesn''t arrive in Jan. - & someone to act as a focal point for the attack - then survival will be extremely problematic.

[Badger 0]

[quote user="suffolk canary"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

To expand the Roeder debate a little, a learned friend of mine with plenty of connections in the Professional game made a very interesting point to me last week. He knows Roeder, and says that what we are seeing is a desperation that (in his view) uncharacteristically has become an arrogance because GR simply will not get another job in football at anything like the level he craves if he gets the sack. His CV currently reads "did Ok to start with but then tailed off dramatically" at each of the last 3 or 4 jobs he has had. GR will never resign because he knows he is drinking in Last Chance Saloon.

A few other factors to bear in mind with Roeder. He lives in a very nice rented house in Bridgham , with paddocks etc , as he and his wife are very keen on horses. I actually wonder how bothered he is about City, instead merely sees this job as a meal ticket to do what he enjoys most (Newmarket Races) and take his children fishing. I think he has given up and is now entrenched much like Worthy became , only instead of waiting for his money to support his sons at Greshams like Worthy did , GR is now taking the Kings Shilling to support his interests. GR is, without any doubt, finished at NCFC and is hiding behind his contract.

NCFC will need to sack him to stay up, that is obvious. It should be done to give a new manager a vestige of activity in the January window. Why not give Darren Fergusen a part time job? Three days a week with him would be better than we have now.

[/quote]It seems to me that the two points you make directly contradict each other. On the one hand he is deperate but on the other he couldn''t care![/quote]

The two point don''t contracict each other.  Graham Paddon''s Beard''s post confirms a horrible suspicion I had about Roeder from the outset - he saw us as a means of resurrecting a mediocre career.  What Beard is saying (correct me if I''m wrong) is that deep down Roeder is desperate at the moment for personal reasons relating to his standing in the game and his reputation - he couldn''t care less about the club per se.  Secondly, he loves the lifestyle associated with living in this part of the country, and only wants to hold on to his job to maintain that.

His attittude has the hallmarks of a personally desperate situation.  I''m sure we''ve all seen colleagues in a similar position: they take for granted the perks of the job, but hate what the job actually entails.  This breads cynicism and negativity.

He won''t resign for these reasons.  If we are relegated Glenn will quickly speak about the opportunity to completely rebuild and come back stronger (because again that suits his personal situation).

He''ll have to be sacked.

[/quote]Wth respect though, you cannot seperate the two. His career prospects are very much tied in with Norwich so he must be desperate for us to get out of this mess, even if it is for personal reasons.Any professional footballer/ manager will be used to moving from club to club in a way fans don''t, so the lifelong passion for the club won''t be as strong. However, for managers in particular,in most cases, their fate is closely tied to the fortune of the club. This is nothing new - look at the successful managers we have lost in the past for career reasons. (Bond, Machin, Walker, O''Neill etc).Of course he wants things to get better for personal reasons - but he is no different from any other manager in that respect.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

I thought I''d wait until today to post to see if a night''s sleep made me less angry or change my view, but it didn''t.

When Roeder was appointed I thought it was a good move given the state of the club, and there is no doubt that his initial impact was very positive, although we declined alarmingly in the latter part of the season. This season I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, largely because I couldn''t see how we could afford to get rid of him. Without doubt he has had some bad luck with injuries, particularly losing Steffy and Kennedy, and we have played some pretty football in the old Norwich City style, but we are now looking down the barrel and League One is a looming reality. Even very recently I expressed the view that to change managers now would be too much of  arisk and make relegation more likely, but I have to admit that I have now changed my view.

While I do not attend as many games as some of you who go home and away, I can honestly say that I have watched or listened to all but three of our games this season,so I hope my view is objective. Whilst its easy to quote our lack of firepower, our lack of a creative midfield playmaker and our lack of finances, my particular reason for believing that, whatever the cost Roeder has to go now is the apparent lack of a will to win emanating form the bench. It was clear yesterday that Sheffield United were poor at the back and Adams noted several times that  deliveries into the box and balls that turned defenders caused them huge problems and created chances for us, yet we left our big target man on the bench when we were pushing for a late equaliser, then pushed Doc upfront. However,rather than bomb the box it appeared that we favoured intricate short passing movements that eventually disappeared up their own backsides. Added to this is the apparent lack of passion amongst the players reported by several who went to the game, and the inevitable post match interview where Roeder bemoaned bad luck in front of goal and siad he was happy with the performance!

The question that this raises in my mind is whether Roeder now has a mentality of damage limitation rather than the "go for broke" approach that we expect to see when trailing late on. I was always coached that it doesn''t matter if you lose 1-0 or 3-0, as long as you try to get something out of the game. We don''t appear to be working to that maxim. Add this to the increasingly bizarre team selections and substitutions and a picture starts to emerge of a struggling manager with a siege mentality and a stubborn desire to prove his critics wrong by presenting himself as some sort of footballing Zen master.

I don''t care that Roeder isn''t likeable. I didn''t like Ron Saunders or his style of football, but he got results. I would happily forgive Roeder his remarks at the AGM and in the press if he made us winners, but we are going backwards, and terminal decline seems very close. Let''s at least give ourselves a chance by getting rid of him now!

 

[/quote]imo beau - the seeds for roedy''s demise were planted this time last year, when the baord didn''t back him in the tranny window - he did his bit and sold (controversially - lewis) early - and he bought in matty patty (who let himself, roedy and the club down soon after) and 4 green young''uns...as i suggested at the time, the signing of tiny taylor and another experienced body up front, would realistically have kept roedy''s momentum going...i recall advising roedy to walk then,,,his reputation is harmed beyond repair now - unless he can get NCFC going again///his summer signings were a mixed bag - the free tranny''s are all quality players - but the loanees were a gamble - (aside from plastic - who at the time was welcomed, but now is clearly lacking confidence - as are many of the players) - sibs, kenners, steffs all had suspect injury records - while lupes had done boss all back in italy///im0 - as i speculated on friday - i doubted whether corty was fit to play - and it looks like he was there just for the trip to make up numbers - with sibs off injured - surely cort would have come on,,,if fit??? i very much doubt he was...will he play tomoz nite - maybe,,,at least the pitch won''t be frozen - but i doubt he''ll start...maybe get 30 mins at the end///but if cort doesn''t get any minutes on the pitch,,,then clearly his worth to NCFC is questionable, and tbh - it looks like another gamble gone west///as i''ve suggested - roedy''s selections and line-ups don''t make sense to the ordinary fan - so unless roedy is winning games - this a big stick that supporters can use to whack him with...and for me - he cut off his nose to spite his face as far back as the swansea match - when he brought on hooley on the right, while leaving bell on the left - crazy decision,,,especially cos we were chasing the game, and we never looked like getting close to the swans as a result///i began to lose confidence in roedy then, and i''ve not seen much to repair my view...as to the future - roedy say he will bring in an experienced CB - we need it - cos grounds (a left back) 2nd time around is coming into a squad thin on morale - and it will be a huge ask for the boy to replicate his previous form with us - cos a few errors (like on saturday) will surely hit him harder cos he in playing out of position...as it would any player - this is common sense --- we can''t afford to be ''cleverer'' in our posi,,,there''s too much at stake...so for me - bring back grounds (unless to play him at left back) represents another gamble at CB...my new year message for the board - was to sack roedy or back him...we still need a proven, experienced striker and CB...irrespective of who is managing the club///

[First Wazzock 902]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

I thought I''d wait until today to post to see if a night''s sleep made me less angry or change my view, but it didn''t.

When Roeder was appointed I thought it was a good move given the state of the club, and there is no doubt that his initial impact was very positive, although we declined alarmingly in the latter part of the season. This season I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, largely because I couldn''t see how we could afford to get rid of him. Without doubt he has had some bad luck with injuries, particularly losing Steffy and Kennedy, and we have played some pretty football in the old Norwich City style, but we are now looking down the barrel and League One is a looming reality. Even very recently I expressed the view that to change managers now would be too much of  arisk and make relegation more likely, but I have to admit that I have now changed my view.

While I do not attend as many games as some of you who go home and away, I can honestly say that I have watched or listened to all but three of our games this season,so I hope my view is objective. Whilst its easy to quote our lack of firepower, our lack of a creative midfield playmaker and our lack of finances, my particular reason for believing that, whatever the cost Roeder has to go now is the apparent lack of a will to win emanating form the bench. It was clear yesterday that Sheffield United were poor at the back and Adams noted several times that  deliveries into the box and balls that turned defenders caused them huge problems and created chances for us, yet we left our big target man on the bench when we were pushing for a late equaliser, then pushed Doc upfront. However,rather than bomb the box it appeared that we favoured intricate short passing movements that eventually disappeared up their own backsides. Added to this is the apparent lack of passion amongst the players reported by several who went to the game, and the inevitable post match interview where Roeder bemoaned bad luck in front of goal and siad he was happy with the performance!

The question that this raises in my mind is whether Roeder now has a mentality of damage limitation rather than the "go for broke" approach that we expect to see when trailing late on. I was always coached that it doesn''t matter if you lose 1-0 or 3-0, as long as you try to get something out of the game. We don''t appear to be working to that maxim. Add this to the increasingly bizarre team selections and substitutions and a picture starts to emerge of a struggling manager with a siege mentality and a stubborn desire to prove his critics wrong by presenting himself as some sort of footballing Zen master.

I don''t care that Roeder isn''t likeable. I didn''t like Ron Saunders or his style of football, but he got results. I would happily forgive Roeder his remarks at the AGM and in the press if he made us winners, but we are going backwards, and terminal decline seems very close. Let''s at least give ourselves a chance by getting rid of him now!

 

[/quote]

Good post Beauseant.

I have not managed England (Yet!!), but I, like you, think that is the score is 1-0 with 10 mins to go you mght as well stick on 4 forwards and try to salvage something from the game. If you end up losing 3-0 so be it, but at least you have given it a go rather than accept a 1-0 defeat against a team that didn''t sound too comfortable at the back.

[Saint Canary 0]

I hate to think that we need dispose of yet another manager ................. but the writing has been on the wall for quite some time.  Part of me thinks that Roeder could pull off a couple of good transfers this month, the other part of me thinks that even of he did sign 11 good players he still wouldn''t be able to mould them into a winning team.His biggest problem to me is that he appears to have the arrogance and bravado of Brian Clough without the level of genius in man-management and ability to build a winning team.

[jeagle 0]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]The player with the ball appears to have no idea what to do other than hump the ball [/quote]

This made me smile, haha.

[Mark .Y. 351]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

To expand the Roeder debate a little, a learned friend of mine with plenty of connections in the Professional game made a very interesting point to me last week. He knows Roeder, and says that what we are seeing is a desperation that (in his view) uncharacteristically has become an arrogance because GR simply will not get another job in football at anything like the level he craves if he gets the sack. His CV currently reads "did Ok to start with but then tailed off dramatically" at each of the last 3 or 4 jobs he has had. GR will never resign because he knows he is drinking in Last Chance Saloon.

A few other factors to bear in mind with Roeder. He lives in a very nice rented house in Bridgham , with paddocks etc , as he and his wife are very keen on horses. I actually wonder how bothered he is about City, instead merely sees this job as a meal ticket to do what he enjoys most (Newmarket Races) and take his children fishing. I think he has given up and is now entrenched much like Worthy became , only instead of waiting for his money to support his sons at Greshams like Worthy did , GR is now taking the Kings Shilling to support his interests. GR is, without any doubt, finished at NCFC and is hiding behind his contract.

NCFC will need to sack him to stay up, that is obvious. It should be done to give a new manager a vestige of activity in the January window. Why not give Darren Fergusen a part time job? Three days a week with him would be better than we have now.

[/quote]

 

Interesting points GPB. I totally agree that Roeder is highly  unlikely to get another high profile job, and the desperation that your friend notes ties in with the siege mentality theory. Ferguson would be an interesting choice, but I suspect that his contract at Posh would ensure very high compensation payments.

[/quote]

This is a decent thread that, unusually, is so far free of personal attacks so I will add my two pennorth worth..............

I have never been a fan of GR and was not impressed with his appointment, however, from the board''s point of view I can understand why they went for him. I''m sure he would have given a good interview and he does have experience and contacts in the game. I''m also sure he would have glossed over the reasons he left previous clubs !!

I do agree with what most are saying on here, if he fails with us I doubt whether he will ever get another reasonable managerial appointment. I suspect he will still be able to make a living in the game but not as a manager. Again, in agreement with others, I don''t think there is much hope of him resigning. He comes across to me as too arrogant and blaming of others to be able to stand back and admit he could be the problem.

I do feel we need to sack him, would he be due compensation ? I would hope the board have learnt from the Worthy situation and there is a clause in his contract along the lines of being able to get rid of him for (say) 2 or 3 months salary if we are in a position below mid-table of the Championship. If there isn''t, that would be a management failure of the Chief Exec/Board. My key worry about us getting rid of him though is that, I understand (in fairness, I don''t actually know) that he and Mrs GR are very good friends with Delia/MWJ. If this is true, it is very worrying as it must be very difficult for Delia/MWJ to form an independent "business" view of GR if he is indeed a good friend.

I suspect we could not get Darren Ferguson, he seems to be happy and progressing where he is for now. I honestly can''t see a reason why he would want to join us when, if he keeps going the way he is, a lower Prem club could well come in for him. My preference was for Nigel Clough but that option has obviously gone now.

 

Mark .Y.

  

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

No-one would give a stuff about his lack of personality if he produced results, but he simply doesnt have either.

[Binky 0]

[quote user="Saint Canary"]I hate to think that we need dispose of yet another manager ................. but the writing has been on the wall for quite some time.  Part of me thinks that Roeder could pull off a couple of good transfers this month, the other part of me thinks that even of he did sign 11 good players he still wouldn''t be able to mould them into a winning team.His biggest problem to me is that he appears to have the arrogance and bravado of Brian Clough without the level of genius in man-management and ability to build a winning team.[/quote]That is it in a nutshell IMO. Those who defend Roeder rightly point out that he has improved the squad (He has! He has!). But that''s just the point. He cannot make them play to their best - he''s failing big time with a better team, his team.  Good managers can make a canary purse from a sparrow''s ear (as the saying goes). The sum of the whole needs to be better than the individual parts, through motivation and team work. Ron Saunders did it way back and so did Worthy for a time. Our team is not even as good as the individuals he has brought together. I had thought he wouldn''t risk taken us down because of the risk to his CV and would quit first. But maybe he doesn''t care what happens: he knows the end is inevitable eventually and he''s probably made enough to live on for the rest of his life.