Please answer this question without abuse, stupid reasoning and some decent common sense backed up by facts!

[Andy Larkin 15]

We are in the sh*t. We are quite obviously not alone in the sh*t, but we are in it all the same.There appears to be nobody willing to buy Premier League clubs (with the exception of London based clubs it seems), let alone Championship clubs.You want Delia and MWJ/Roger Mumby/Doomie etc to leave the club.What is your proposal? And PLEASE don''t say Peter Cullum, because he isn''t going to step in until we are bust at the very best.So, come on my serious fellow Pink ''Un posters, sensibly, what is your answer to getting our current board to step down and who takes over the reins to get us out of the brown stuff?We''re not talking about Glenn Roeder here, this is all about the board, who it seems most of you hold responsible for our plight (and in my opinion with good reason, albeit not with any malice or ill intent!)

[Robert Ketts Yellow Army 15]

[quote user="Andy Larkin"]We are in the sh*t. We are quite obviously not alone in the sh*t, but we are in it all the same.

There appears to be nobody willing to buy Premier League clubs (with the exception of London based clubs it seems), let alone Championship clubs.

You want Delia and MWJ/Roger Mumby/Doomie etc to leave the club.

What is your proposal? And PLEASE don''t say Peter Cullum, because he isn''t going to step in until we are bust at the very best.

So, come on my serious fellow Pink ''Un posters, sensibly, what is your answer to getting our current board to step down and who takes over the reins to get us out of the brown stuff?

We''re not talking about Glenn Roeder here, this is all about the board, who it seems most of you hold responsible for our plight (and in my opinion with good reason, albeit not with any malice or ill intent!)
[/quote]

Let things run their course...

[Heffers Canary 0]

I really don''t know. I personally am grateful for all delia has done but think there will be a right time for her to move on. That time is not now. The thing is none of us really know how deeply in the brown stuff we are financially, but I would suggest if we are quite deep maybe the time is right to let some non playing essential staff go. It''s happening all around us in the real world at the moment, look at M and S this morning. Its not admitting failure, its trying to keep yourself afloat.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]What is your proposal? And PLEASE don''t say Peter Cullum, because he isn''t going to step in until we are bust at the very best.[/quote]Appoint Keith Harris, as he has a very successful track record of overseeing club buyouts.  This is what the club have done.

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]What is your proposal? And PLEASE don''t say Peter Cullum, because he isn''t going to step in until we are bust at the very best.[/quote]

Appoint Keith Harris, as he has a very successful track record of overseeing club buyouts.  This is what the club have done.
[/quote]

And Carl More. he has earned it

[Blofield Canary 11]

I think we are probably a lot better off than we think. We might be losing money but our debts and losses are a lot less than many other clubs. There are a hell of a lot of clubs (One not much more than 40 miles away) who are not being run with any business sense at all. Any fool can spend loads of money on players if there is an endless supply of money coming in from a rich investor. Chelsea have been doing it for years but even Abravich is saying no more and is even keeping hold of the £12 million they are getting for Wayne Bridge.

Look at West Ham. Loads of money last year, now selling who ever they can and are still likely to go into administration if the ycan''t soon find a buyer.

Portsmouth selling to pay of the inland revenue and still have debt out of control.

Most Premiership teams would go out of existence tomorrow if their debts were called in or their backers stopped putting in money.

Yes we might be in a  very tight financial situation. But get the wage bill down by a couple of million a year and we can survive and hopefully start to grow as a club again. There are a hell of a lot of clubs who will drown in their own debt if their backers stop handing over the money.

Would you swap our board for Marcus Evans?  Ipswich owe ME £32 million form the original debt he bought on the cheap. They owe him an additional £12 million for the so called money for new players, which they are reporting will have run out by the end of this season (How mich has been spent on players?) So thats £44 million they owe him that we know of. They have no hope of paying this back and the yare having to pay a not insignificant amount of interest to ME. If he walks the ygo straight into admin again.

So maybe we are not in such deep brown stuff as we think. Maybe we will have the last laugh over some of these big spenders. Maybe Delia and her £2 million a year is not so bad after all.

[Bruce Eats Walkers! 0]

Our best hope is that I manage to win a Euromillions rollover to the tune of about £100m in which case I would pay off the clubs debt and provide cash for players and all without wanting to be a majority shareholder or own the club - but simply becase i have the best interests of the club at heart and want to see it succeed.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 405]

[quote user="Andy Larkin"]

What is your proposal? And PLEASE don''t say Peter Cullum, because he isn''t going to step in until we are bust at the very best.

[/quote]

That being an opinion I disagree with regardless of what we have all read in the press.

I have a feeling that if Delia and hubby did step aside then Mr Cullum would then(maybe) show more of an interest.

The main sticking point as I see it  is who has overall control of the club. With Delia et all no longer in control then there is no reason why Mr Cullum could not appoint his own team to oversee the running of the club. 

 

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]I have a feeling that if Delia and hubby did step aside then Mr Cullum would then(maybe) show more of an interest.[/quote]Problem being there Inchy is that they won''t stand aside unless they are happy with the successor, and the plans that person / those people have for the club - e.g. will they pump cash in regularly the way D & M have.  Unless something like administration happens.  Which won''t.  Probably.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 405]

I''m talking about if they cracked due to all the massive protest that we witness at every home game Blah.[;)][:D][:D]

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="IncH_HigH"]

I''m talking about if they cracked due to all the massive protest that we witness at every home game Blah.[;)][:D][:D]

[/quote]I wouldn''t hold my breath old chum [:)]

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

[quote user="IncH_HigH"]

[quote user="Andy Larkin"]

What is your proposal? And PLEASE don''t say Peter Cullum, because he isn''t going to step in until we are bust at the very best.

[/quote]

That being an opinion I disagree with regardless of what we have all read in the press.

I have a feeling that if Delia and hubby did step aside then Mr Cullum would then(maybe) show more of an interest.

The main sticking point as I see it  is who has overall control of the club. With Delia et all no longer in control then there is no reason why Mr Cullum could not appoint his own team to oversee the running of the club. 

 

[/quote]

he''s not going to make a reasonable offer though

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

[quote user="IncH_HigH"]

[quote user="Andy Larkin"]

What is your proposal? And PLEASE don''t say Peter Cullum, because he isn''t going to step in until we are bust at the very best.

[/quote]

That being an opinion I disagree with regardless of what we have all read in the press.

I have a feeling that if Delia and hubby did step aside then Mr Cullum would then(maybe) show more of an interest.

The main sticking point as I see it  is who has overall control of the club. With Delia et all no longer in control then there is no reason why Mr Cullum could not appoint his own team to oversee the running of the club. 

 

[/quote]

he''s not going to make a reasonable offer though

[Andy Larkin 15]

Well, after 12 or so responses, its bloody good that the responses so far have been well thought out!I don''t want be a downer on anyone that posts on here cos it is a free forum after all, but my blood pressure remains so much lower when people actually give some thought to their responses rather than a hot-headed, ignorant reply (guess this will now cue someone doing just that).I don''t have any answers, and it frustrates the hell out of me at times, but having giving this a lot of thought over the last few years, I seriously don''t think that there are any viable alternatives.Inchy, I deliberately asked for Peter Cullum not to be thrown into the mix simply because I didn''t want this thread to go down the ''Will he, won''t he route" cos none of us know (and I know I made an assumption with my statement in the OP, for which I apologise) one way or the other for all the very tired old reasons. I was simply asking if anyone had any viable alternatives OTHER than him. But thanks for your imput all the same… at least it wasn''t a rant!

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 405]

Andy, it''s the only alternative that I can see hence my post, however I do agree that the Cullum thing has been done to death.[:D]

[Hairy Canary 668]

There are only two ways forward that the board can consider IMO.

The first is that every effort is made to sell the club. At the moment this would be very difficult to achieve, athough it would be more likely to happen if the majority shareholders were to reduce their asking price to one that matched current market conditions. Considering how perilous the financial situation is at present that would pretty much mean giving their shares away, along the lines of what Cullum proposed and was rejected. It''s possible that pressure would mount, (either from the fans or by the club needing more cash to stay afloat than the board can afford), for that to be considered but otherwise I think we have to be realistic and say the chance of being bought out is remote at best.

The second is to cut our costs to a sustainable level to ensure administration is avoided. We are pretty much at that point now so long as Delia continues to put in a couple of million each year. Were that to stop becasue she considers she has put in as much as she is prepared to, or she simply runs out of cash, we would have to reducing all our outgoings, including the playing budget still further and increase the risk of relegation. 

If option 1 is not achievable at present then we have to go with option 2 whch means that our only chance of any success is top quality management making the best of what we have, our youth policy producing a few gems and wise money making purchases in the transfer market. Despite what you say in your OP, I''m afraid we are talking about GR here because he clearly is not able the man to do any of those things.

[Blofield Canary 11]

It was interesting the support there still seems to be for Delia amongst away fans. There wa a chant of Delia''s Barmy Army at Chrarlton amongst the Roeder out chants. Maybe a few more people beginning to realise at the moment she is the best and only option we have

[Webbo118 0]

Probably the most memorable moment (sorry second most memorable moment after the "England manager" comment) from the AGM regarding the appointment of Keith Harris. Everyone thought it, everyone saw it coming and, when it eventually did, it was still priceless - if Keith Harris doesn''t come up with something, perhaps we can ask Orville. Great stuff and a high point in a distressing season. How sad is that?

[canary cherub 1]

The reason we''re in such a mess isn''t because D&M aren''t rich enough.  It''s because the money we did have wasn''t spent in the right areas.  The reason it wasn''t spent in the right areas is because football isn''t at the top of the agenda where it ought to be. 

Regardless of who the owners are, we need someone who can run NCFC like a football club and restore a sense of focus, purpose and direction.  Plenty of other clubs with fewer resources are doing better than us for that simple reason.

Assuming there''s no prospect of a takeover this is what should happen:

Sack Neil Doncaster and appoint a football focused chief exec

Bring new blood onto the board who are similarly football focused (if they can bring a little bit of money too that would be a bonus but not essential)

D&M no longer to take an active role in the day to day running of the club.  (If I were them I''d be on the next plane to the Bahamas . . .)

 

[NorwichsNewFinest 0]

[quote user="Andy Larkin"]We are in the sh*t. We are quite obviously not alone in the sh*t, but we are in it all the same.

What is your proposal? And PLEASE don''t say Peter Cullum, because he isn''t going to step in until we are bust at the very best.

[/quote]

I for one have absolutely no idea. One wonders how many Manchester City fans put the Abu Dhabi Group name forward as potential owners?

Maybe the next potential owner is a name that hasn''t been banded about?

[AVIVADIVA 0]

[quote user="Andy Larkin"]Well, after 12 or so responses, its bloody good that the responses so far have been well thought out!

I don''t want be a downer on anyone that posts on here cos it is a free forum after all, but my blood pressure remains so much lower when people actually give some thought to their responses rather than a hot-headed, ignorant reply (guess this will now cue someone doing just that).

I don''t have any answers, and it frustrates the hell out of me at times, but having giving this a lot of thought over the last few years, I seriously don''t think that there are any viable alternatives.

Inchy, I deliberately asked for Peter Cullum not to be thrown into the mix simply because I didn''t want this thread to go down the ''Will he, won''t he route" cos none of us know (and I know I made an assumption with my statement in the OP, for which I apologise) one way or the other for all the very tired old reasons. I was simply asking if anyone had any viable alternatives OTHER than him. But thanks for your imput all the same… at least it wasn''t a rant!
[/quote]

Frustration is the only word to describe where we are.  It was clear from the reports of the AGM that there are no alternatives other than just continuing to struggle on as we are, or the board eating humble pie and approaching Cullum.  Whether he is really serious or not, only time will tell but there certainly doesn''t seem to be anyone else on the horizon.

It''s going to be interesting to see how season ticket sales go this season as a poor return will heap further pressure on the board.  The club already has some pretty tough decisions to make on pricing if they haven''t already done so with the economic climate and the very real possibility of League 1 football next season.

Most frustrating of all is that although there is still so much passion and support for the club in Norfolk and beyond, these days a football club is dependant on having a multi-millionnaire at the helm just to tread water.

 

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

[quote user="Hairy Canary"]

If option 1 is not achievable at present then we have to go with option 2 whch means that our only chance of any success is top quality management making the best of what we have, our youth policy producing a few gems and wise money making purchases in the transfer market. Despite what you say in your OP, I''m afraid we are talking about GR here because he clearly is not able the man to do any of those things.

[/quote]

Hasn''t it kind of always been that way?

Good to see some more rational debate on this issue though. Seriously, I think Delia agrees with us, she wants to sell, they are trying to sell up... but it''s about 3 years too late unfortunately.

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

[quote user="jbghost"]It was interesting the support there still seems to be for Delia amongst away fans. There wa a chant of Delia''s Barmy Army at Chrarlton amongst the Roeder out chants. Maybe a few more people beginning to realise at the moment she is the best and only option we have[/quote]

I think there is still very strong support for Delia generally, and all she has done for the club. Yes there is a small minority who are asking "What have the Smiths ever done for us?" but the majority know we''re luckier than most clubs (and yet, not as lucky as some...)

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

[quote user="Potless Percy "]

Sack Neil Doncaster and appoint a football focused chief exec

[/quote]

Isn''t his job to focus on maximising the income of the business, and letting the football manager focus on football. All ND and the board have to do is generate as much cash as they can for the playing side. They have decided that getting the best return on the clubs long-term assets (e.g. the land) is the best long-term strategy. We''ll get ticket revenue for ever from the South stand, and income for ever from the hotel.

We can debate whether it was the best strategy for maximising income. It''s certainly lower risk then investing in players who as we know have a habit of not developing. It''s also probably the reson why we haven''t already gone into administration.

The problem is, others have aimed higher... some have made it, but some have fallen further (Leeds, Forest, Leicester, Charlton?)

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="Amarillo"][quote user="Potless Percy "]

Sack Neil Doncaster and appoint a football focused chief exec

[/quote]

Isn''t his job to focus on maximising the income of the business, and letting the football manager focus on football. All ND and the board have to do is generate as much cash as they can for the playing side. They have decided that getting the best return on the clubs long-term assets (e.g. the land) is the best long-term strategy. We''ll get ticket revenue for ever from the South stand, and income for ever from the hotel.

We can debate whether it was the best strategy for maximising income. It''s certainly lower risk then investing in players who as we know have a habit of not developing. It''s also probably the reson why we haven''t already gone into administration.

The problem is, others have aimed higher... some have made it, but some have fallen further (Leeds, Forest, Leicester, Charlton?)

[/quote]

The main reason we haven`t gone into administration yet could well be that we keep making year-on-year profits in the transfer market to cover the non-football areas which are draining the club of cash.  Of course it doesn`t take a genius to work out what happens when you keep having to flog off your best players but re-invest a paltry amount for replacements......

It seems to be a trueism on this board that non-football activities make the club money to spend on players.  They don`t, in fact the opposite is true- and that is based on reading the accounts and no-one on here has been able to come up with a cogent argument to show otherwise.

Oh, and Charlton, Forest and Leicester all built up huge debts to pay for new facilities which ended up crippling them.  Much like us.

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Oh, and Charlton, Forest and Leicester all built up huge debts to pay for new facilities which ended up crippling them.  Much like us.

[/quote]

Could that be because they did not expect to be relegated? It''s funny that the pinkun forum new model club (Burnley) is undergoing £20m worth of ground improvements, if they suddenly had a drop in form (very likely if they now have to sell their best players) and get relegated can we then add them to your list?

[yellow hammer 0]

The world has changed since the heady days of October 2007 and so the solutions have to change to reflect that. Our board have made some incredibly foolish decisions based on a flawed strategy over the past five years.

But right now the most important thing for NCFC is to pump in working capital to keep the club afloat while others sink around us.

When the financial storms of the world and of football are all blown out, then we can re-assess where we are.

For now the priority is to remain solvent.

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Amarillo"][quote user="Potless Percy "]

Sack Neil Doncaster and appoint a football focused chief exec

[/quote]

Isn''t his job to focus on maximising the income of the business, and letting the football manager focus on football.

[/quote]

No. 

The role of the chief executive of a football club (as with any other business) is to provide focus, leadership and direction to the rest of the organisation, including the football manager and the people whose job it is to maximise income - sales, marketing, catering, finance etc.  He or she is like the conductor of the orchestra.  

If you don''t have that, nothing else works.  That''s why they get so highly paid and why the buck ultimately stops with them.

 

[Andy Larkin 15]

I''m as pleased as punch about the fact that we''ve got this far in the debate, with differing opinions yet all well reasoned and thought out. You see, it is possible to discuss this sort of thing without name calling and one-upmanship. This is the sort of the debate you would have in a pub with your mates before and after the game.Any chance of it catching on do you think?

[Beauseant 0]

There is no doubt that the game as a whole is in a bad place at present, and that a reckoning is on the horizon.As others have stated over the last few weeks, it seems to be only a matter of time before a Premiership club (Portsmouth look favourites at present) goes into adminstration and a domino effect is triggered. Even Chelsea are being forced to pull in their horns.

The irony of this is that prudent ambition may actually turn out (by default) to be the best policy. Charlton and Ipswich''s latest loss figures show clearly that other Championship clubs are in no better, or in some cases, considerably worse, states than us.Something has to give and the fallout may, like seismic movements that turn the seabed into mountains, result in a completely new pecking order in which we find ourselves in a much stronger position. However, that''s a longer term issue which will be severely compromised if we drop into League One, and there''s no doubt that continued poor results will rack up the level of discontent.I think its interesting that despite all the bluster on this forum there has been little tangible sign of anti Delia sentiment among the fan base, yet we have had loud anti Roeder chants and now a website dedicated to his removal. Ultimately I think that the average fan blames the manager for poor performance, not the Board, and there is a general acceptance that, regardless of what has happened in the past we have what we have and must make do until something better presents itself. As I stated often over the summer I would be happy to see a new owner with new investment, but I don''t see Delia remaining in charge as some sort of personal affront, nor do I accept that she has anything other than the clubs best interests at heart, regardless of what I would consider to be some bad decisions (notably choices of manager).

I don''t particularly relish the status quo, but see it as preferable to a huge leap into the unknown.