The Restaurant?

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

The restaurant is fairly mature by now.

Has it been a successful venture or is it really draining cash from the club? We''ve never really been told the full facts, have we. Retaurants are notoriously dicey to make real money from.

With the recession gripping and people guarding their optional expenditure, what will be the future of this ''name brand'' venture?

Whether draining cash or supplementing cash flow I would imagine that the near future looks rather rocky.

What to do?

1.  Let it slide down market as reinvestment declines?

2.  Simplify the menu and shift down market a little (ardees bangers & mash and toad in the hole - plus pigs fry on Fridays) in search of volume?

3.  Lease it to Gordon Ramsay?

4.  Franchise it?

5.  Close it down?

And then , of course, what will happen to it if Cullum rides into town?

Well, its better than thinking too much about Reading on Saturday - I guess!!

OTBC

 

  

 

 

[king canary 8,734]

Now I may be wrong but dont the club accounts show the restaurant is making a profit?

[Bobert 0]

Have you ever eaten there? Surely the restaurant is an asset to both the city of Norwich and to the club in any case - profit or loss.

There has to be more to a Championship football club than playing the game otherwise, as I have said before, go and watch Mulbarton play on the Common!

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="king canary"]Now I may be wrong but dont the club accounts show the restaurant is making a profit?
[/quote]

As far as I recollect, King, - I don''t have the accounts beside me - they show a smallish surplus of income over direct expenditure for ''catering''.

Now my business acqaintances tell me that this surplus maybe  a far way from being a ''true profit'' after all factors are taken into account e.g. how overheads etc are expensed and apportioned & so on.

Plus, catering includes, for example, matchday sales of pies and drinks etc on which - given a captive crowd & a monopoly supply - one imagines that it would not be difficult to turn a good profit.

I''m just asking and probing really as several of us are very concerned at the seemingly excessive costs of running the ''non-football'' side of the club. The only way to figure it out really is to examine it piece by piece - but of course the detail required for such an execise to be successful does not really appear in the accounts does it?

Since the club are so pressed to find ''fees'' and ''wages'' to run the football side (which after all is the raison d''etre for the whole shebang) it behoves us fans to pressure them about the other side - in which any drain should be cauterised and shut down pronto, particularly in the face of a serious economic recession. A common feeling is that a prime reason for the Turners ''jumping ship'' so abruptly and tersely is that they were fed up (amongst other things) with the unwillingness of ''the club'' to be serious about generating efficiencies - in particular on the non-football side. After all Turner was reported to have said in the process of joining the board that he saw no reason why (Championship) football clubs had to run at a loss.

OTBC

 

 

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="Bobert"]

Have you ever eaten there? Surely the restaurant is an asset to both the city of Norwich and to the club in any case - profit or loss.

There has to be more to a Championship football club than playing the game otherwise, as I have said before, go and watch Mulbarton play on the Common!

[/quote]

Ermm......you may be quite right there in a way..........but in the teeth of a vicious economic recession and the clear inability to spend as needed on the football side........? I wonder.

You see the problem with all these little things is that they tend to add up................and then ''Bob''s your uncle''  and the whole darned apple cart is upset.

But, I do know what you mean.............

OTBC           

OTBC

[dhickl 0]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Now my business acqaintances tell me that this surplus maybe  a far way from being a ''true profit'' after all factors are taken into account e.g. how overheads etc are expensed and apportioned & so on.

[/quote]

You have to remember the whole reason behind the restaurant, etc.  The club was sitting there empty Sunday to Friday.  You still have to pay the overheads (such as business rates).  The restaurant may not be viable on it''s own it if had to pay the rates - we don''t know, it may even pay it''s way including the rates.  What you have to rewalise though is there are bills there that you have to pay whether the restaturant is there or not.  All the ''surplus'' from the non-footballing activities are helping to cover the overheads of the football club.  It probably is not enough to buy an extra couple of players, but it is helping the club stay afloat.  If you look at other clubs, more and more are having to include other, non-footballing activies to help pay the bills.  Look on the bright side - at least we don''t have to rent out pitch to a local rugby club!

Also, I work for a company who''s closest ties to Norfolk are Richmond in Surrey, yet we have had people from our company attend seminars (2) and a conference that have been held at the club.  It must have something going for it if you can attract people such as accountants & laywers up from London for a conference

[gazzathegreat 0]

Bobert, Delia''s is relatively upmarket when compared to most other fare in the city, it''s wonderful food, and if you eat directly after a home game it''s about the same price as going for a good curry! However serious dining on Friday or Saturday night will set a couple back around the sum of £100. £50 per head is perhaps only really going to appeal as a very special occasion meal. Perhaps this is why it''s not open every night/lunchtime. I suppose that''s why they opened Yellows, which is much more accessible to the average punter, but the food is nothing special.

As for the conferences and meetings, they go on most days, I usually see lots of business types wandering around lost, searching for the various venues. On a similar tack, the Holiday Inn is always busy, night and day. I am still unclear as to whether the club gains a percentage of their profits or is simply charging ground rent. Perhaps someone can clear this up for me. Also Delia holds cookery schools in the Barclay Stand (TOTT). They are advertised in most glossy womens'' mags.

[BBFF 0]

What has to be remembered is that there was a restaurant in the Barclay that made a profit before the estimated £2m refurbishing it and the rebuilding of the entrance to the upper Barclay to comply with safety reg''s for the now one room larger restaurant.

We were never told where the money came from but the week the restaurant opened Bellamy was sold also the club asked the league if we could play the first game of the season away as the restaurant was not finished on time.

Recently the company I work for held a series of meetings in the Business at the top of the Jarrold stand. We were given a buffet lunch the was so poor some people left to eat else where.

I think most supporters would be amazed at the leave of luxury in the Jarrold stand that the normal supporter does not see and can not get to.

As for the hotel we haven''t made a penny out of it since it opened. All the profit goes to the two other owners (we own one third) to pay off their bank loan for building the hotel.

I would like to ask just one questions. Do we go to Carrow Rd for the FOOTBALL or a dinner?

 

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

[Mr.Carrow 394]

[quote user="dhickl"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Now my business acqaintances tell me that this surplus maybe  a far way from being a ''true profit'' after all factors are taken into account e.g. how overheads etc are expensed and apportioned & so on.

[/quote]

You have to remember the whole reason behind the restaurant, etc.  The club was sitting there empty Sunday to Friday.  You still have to pay the overheads (such as business rates).  The restaurant may not be viable on it''s own it if had to pay the rates - we don''t know, it may even pay it''s way including the rates.  What you have to rewalise though is there are bills there that you have to pay whether the restaturant is there or not.  All the ''surplus'' from the non-footballing activities are helping to cover the overheads of the football club.  It probably is not enough to buy an extra couple of players, but it is helping the club stay afloat.  If you look at other clubs, more and more are having to include other, non-footballing activies to help pay the bills.  Look on the bright side - at least we don''t have to rent out pitch to a local rugby club!

Also, I work for a company who''s closest ties to Norfolk are Richmond in Surrey, yet we have had people from our company attend seminars (2) and a conference that have been held at the club.  It must have something going for it if you can attract people such as accountants & laywers up from London for a conference

[/quote]

I don`t know if you`re a shareholder but the accounts show the amount available to spend on the team is decreasing year-on-year rather than increasing, and is now less than before promotion when we had gates of under 20k.  Don`t forget the club used to tell us that we needed 16k to break even.

Just because something makes sense on paper doesn`t mean it will inevitably work in practise and the evidence is that their policy has financially brought the club to its knees.  It has been an absolute disaster and it`s looking even worse given the deteriorating economy.

[Blofield Canary 12]

Do we go to Carrow Rd for the FOOTBALL or a dinner?

Personally I go for both. The restaurant is excellent value and the quality is very good. (More than can be said for the football at present) Yellows serves up a fine  burger if you want acheap snack as well.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Catering makes a small surplus of income over direct expenditure - according to the accounts - even if maybe not a true profit.

Question? Does the restaurant make a similar surplus? Or even Yellows - fast food is a notoriously competitive business.

I''ll bet that nobody can answer these questions.

OTBC

 

 

[|BA 0]

Funny how they tend to ''add up'' when your casting them as a possible loss, but they dont make a jot of difference when they add cash to the coffers

Last accounts I saw was the catering was putting £750k pa into the coffers.

I''ve eaten there - its pretty disappointing. Its still equally difficult to get a table on a match day

Its (another) brilliant asset to the club you should all be proud of - like the hotel. The hotel only has to make a quid a year and its better than the naff all the gap was making (remember the infill was never going to be granted permission)

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="IBA"]Funny how they tend to ''add up'' when your casting them as a possible loss, but they dont make a jot of difference when they add cash to the coffers Last accounts I saw was the catering was putting £750k pa into the coffers. I''ve eaten there - its pretty disappointing. Its still equally difficult to get a table on a match day Its (another) brilliant asset to the club you should all be proud of - like the hotel. The hotel only has to make a quid a year and its better than the naff all the gap was making (remember the infill was never going to be granted permission)[/quote]

So are you satisfied with the current cost of the non-football side compared with the current cost of the football side?

And you haven''t answered my questions - do the restaurant and Yellows each make a surplus of income over direct expenditure (let alone a true profit)?

OTBC

 

[|BA 0]

surplus of income over direct expenditure IS profit you numpty

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

The restaurant is fairly mature by now.

Has it been a successful venture or is it really draining cash from the club? We''ve never really been told the full facts, have we.

[/quote]

Such concern. Tell me, when you go to the cinema do you ask the Manager to see the popcorn kiosk cash flow stats for the last few years? Do you make sure that the hotdogs are priced competitively? Do you worry about these things whilst watching the latest blockbuster?

 

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="IBA"]surplus of income over direct expenditure IS profit you numpty[/quote]

But it doesn''t take into account the amount spent on upgrading the catering facilities (over a million two or three seasons ago on the conference suite and an unspecified amount on other areas).  Until that''s paid for the restaurants don''t make a penny.

 

[Mr.Carrow 394]

[quote user="Delia S. Tickers"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

The restaurant is fairly mature by now.

Has it been a successful venture or is it really draining cash from the club? We''ve never really been told the full facts, have we.

[/quote]

Such concern. Tell me, when you go to the cinema do you ask the Manager to see the popcorn kiosk cash flow stats for the last few years? Do you make sure that the hotdogs are priced competitively? Do you worry about these things whilst watching the latest blockbuster?

 

[/quote]

Personally if my local independant cinema could only afford to put on "Carry on...." reruns instead of the latest blockbusters, and it was obvious large amounts were being spent on the cafe/toilets i definately would ask questions.  Have a think about it.

[GMF 1,006]

We''ve had this analogy before and it hardly bears comparison. Your local cinema doesn''t cost £15M plus a year to run and it costs the same for it to show a film as it does to the Odeon in Leicester Square.

[BBFF 0]

[quote user="IBA"]Funny how they tend to ''add up'' when your casting them as a possible loss, but they dont make a jot of difference when they add cash to the coffers Last accounts I saw was the catering was putting £750k pa into the coffers. I''ve eaten there - its pretty disappointing. Its still equally difficult to get a table on a match day Its (another) brilliant asset to the club you should all be proud of - like the hotel. The hotel only has to make a quid a year and its better than the naff all the gap was making (remember the infill was never going to be granted permission)[/quote]

There would have been a stand built some time in the future but it was decided to build a none profit making hotel just for the £1.1 ground rent but that all we get for 120 years unless it''s sold. Maybe a hotel fitted in better than more supports with some decision makers idea of what a FOOTBALL club was.

We must be the only club who don''t want as many people in the ground as possible.

 

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Potless Percy "]

[quote user="IBA"]surplus of income over direct expenditure IS profit you numpty[/quote]

But it doesn''t take into account the amount spent on upgrading the catering facilities (over a million two or three seasons ago on the conference suite and an unspecified amount on other areas).  Until that''s paid for the restaurants don''t make a penny.

[/quote]

Don''t forget the money spent on the Joe Lewis Diner.

Have a nice day!

[GMF 1,006]

[quote user="BBFF"][quote user="IBA"]Funny how they tend to ''add up'' when your casting them as a possible loss, but they dont make a jot of difference when they add cash to the coffers Last accounts I saw was the catering was putting £750k pa into the coffers. I''ve eaten there - its pretty disappointing. Its still equally difficult to get a table on a match day Its (another) brilliant asset to the club you should all be proud of - like the hotel. The hotel only has to make a quid a year and its better than the naff all the gap was making (remember the infill was never going to be granted permission)[/quote]

There would have been a stand built some time in the future but it was decided to build a none profit making hotel just for the £1.1 ground rent but that all we get for 120 years unless it''s sold. Maybe a hotel fitted in better than more supports with some decision makers idea of what a FOOTBALL club was.

We must be the only club who don''t want as many people in the ground as possible.

 

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

[/quote]

Personally, I don''t like the hotel, but you have to ask yourself, how much would another infil stand cost? The Community Stand cost over £3,000,000 and gives us something like 1,500 extra seats. That''s over £2,000 per seat and think if the debt to go with it ???

[barclay seats 4849 0]

[quote user="Bobert"]

Have you ever eaten there? Surely the restaurant is an asset to both the city of Norwich and to the club in any case - profit or loss.

There has to be more to a Championship football club than playing the game otherwise, as I have said before, go and watch Mulbarton play on the Common!

[/quote]

Yes I have eaten there........................the food was crap, service was as bad,almost any restaurant in the area is better, and the clientele seemed to consist of scrap dealers and horse traders from Wisbech or somewhere similar. I would not bother to go back. I would also find it difficult to believe that it makes much profit.

[Blofield Canary 12]

I have to disagree most strongly with your comments bs 48/49. At around £50 a head you could not find better food or service anywhere in Norwich. You could well find food as good depending on your personal taste but your comments are just not justified.

You can go in there any Friday or Saturday night and it is full without any obvious presence of scrap dealers or Wisbech horse traders. And yes I do know what one would look like as I spent several years of my youth visiting drinking establishments in Wisbech.

[Mello Yello 2,553]

[quote user="jbghost"]

I have to disagree most strongly with your comments bs 48/49. At around £50 a head you could not find better food or service anywhere in Norwich. You could well find food as good depending on your personal taste but your comments are just not justified.

You can go in there any Friday or Saturday night and it is full without any obvious presence of scrap dealers or Wisbech horse traders. And yes I do know what one would look like as I spent several years of my youth visiting drinking establishments in Wisbech.

[/quote]

Top Nosh....Sub-Standard Football.....(And a better class of scrap dealers and horse traders in Norwich and surrounding area)......

I''m sure if ever the quality of cuisine and service, was to ''Lord forbid'', deteriorate in Delia''s - and was on par with our position and fluctuating performances in the league......She''d have a hissy-fit and heads would roll.

[|BA 0]

[quote user="GazzaTCC"]

We''ve had this analogy before and it hardly bears comparison. Your local cinema doesn''t cost £15M plus a year to run and it costs the same for it to show a film as it does to the Odeon in Leicester Square.

[/quote]

No it doesn''t. Apart from the obvious geographical overheads the release prints are done on different, more expensive printing stock.