Height not an issue

[James Kent 0]

The game in the prem is played on the floor, quick passing, it isn''t route one. On top of that there aren''t many big strikers so i''m not concerned about any lack of heigh at the back.

JIMMY

[Stephen Frys Evil Twin 0]

You should be.

[machoman 0]

No of course not - I''m sure Heskey, Smith, Viduka, Shearer, Kluivert, vanN, Angel, Cisse, van Persie, Beattie, Crouch are all midgets who can''t head a ball

[Campbell 0]

It would be best to have one tall (6''2") pacey centre back who could command in the air, and a smaller centre back who can play with the ball at their feet and can read the game superbly. We have two of the smaller ones in Fleming and Charlton. I''m sure Mackay could do a job as the tall centre back, but ideally we would get another one in.

[Temp the Revelator 0]

Let''s look at that list a little closer -

Heskey - for a player built like he is, has NEVER been anywhere near good enough in the air - he might get his head to it, but has no control over where it''s going next. Good positional play will counter Heskey''s aerial threat every time.

Smith - good in the air, I''ll grant you, but not the tallest so Charlton and Flem will be okay there.

Viduka - yep, fair enough, but not the most mobile player. Play Malky against him.

Shearer - about the best there is. Without spending millions on a centre half, we won''t stop him. However, Charlton dealt with him last season, if you believe the Bolton fans.

Kluivert - bit of an unknown quantity in the air, but I believe his strengths lie more in his ability on the ground. We''ll have to wait and see.

Van Nistelhorse - won''t be playing at OT anyway, but I would worry more about his ability to lose his marker than be beating our centre backs in the air! Experience and positional sense far more important than aerial ability against him.

Angel - Play Malky!

Cisse - see Kluivert.

van Persie - from what I have seen of him (admittedly not much) this isn''t a problem. Especially as Arsenal don''t play the ball in the air to their front men.

Beattie - play Malky!

Crouch - again, for one so tall he has never convinced me in the air. If (and it''s a big IF) he plays for Southampton, I would be happy that Malky and Flem or Malky and Charlton could cope. I would be more worried about Phillips personally.......

Yes, it would be nice to have another, taller centre half in the squad. But, with the positional sense, reading of the game and experience that we have, coupled with the opportunity of using Malky when we need to, I also believe height is not an issue.

[Stephen Frys Evil Twin 0]

I think we should play Malky ahead of Charlton in most games to be honest, Fleming and Malky had a great partnership last season, Fleming has carried Charlton in the pre-season friendlies, and therefore we should play the 2 together again. I don''t understand why we would want to play someone who has a glaringly obvious weakness. Admittedly Malky''s weakness is his pace, but he reads the game so well that pace isn''t always necessary. However, I would like to see a big pacey defender come in, so then we can pair Flem with this new defender and we won''t have to worry about it! Just please, not Charlton!

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

But,

When Crouch was here we talked about how good he was with his feet, and less so in the air, despite his height. Now he''s listed as an aerial threat because he plays for another team!!!

"one tall (6''2") pacey centre back who could command in the air". Do we need a naval wing to our attack force as well? Can''t a player who''s 6'' or even 5''10 jump too? Kenton didn''t seem too troubled by taller players, he had a good jump on him.

"a smaller centre back who can play with the ball at their feet and can read the game superbly".... why, because bigger players can''t read the game? because bigger players can''t play with their feet? (remember Crouch?).

I think we''re too focussed on one attribute or another. Its too black and white.

[Temp the Revelator 0]

What have you got against Charlton then Dom? All the Bolton fans were very disappointed to see him leave, and last season he kept both Shearer and Henry quiet playing at centre back. And from all reports, he has had an excellent pre-season, who looks to be a very intelligent defender who uses his positional sense and experience to make up for any deficiency in height. I agree that if we were about to embark on a season in ''The Championship'', the lack of height would be a worry, but not in the Premiership. You call his lack of height a ''glaringly obvious weakness'', yet dismiss Malky''s lack of pace as almost negligible - I would suggest that lack of pace is not the only failing of Malky''s as he has been turned inside out on more than one occasion. Don''t get me wrong, I have nothing against Malky, I just feel that Charlton is a better bet. Fleming picks himself, he has been the best defender at the club for years.

[ZLF 271]

Well said Temp - got there before me.

Charlton has nothing to prove having spent the majority of his playing career inthe premier, albeit at left back. Since moving to centre back he has impressed all neutral commentators with his ability against a variety of strikers last season fairing particulalry well against the Horse, Henry and Shearer (isnt he a bit useful in the air too?)

Meanwhile Malky last season produced his best ever for last season against such talent as ... well I''m struggling to name anyone from Div 1 who was as good as Hux, let alone one of the world greatest players, and has never played at the top level in England.

Now which one would I chose in the coming season? -ah yes -that would be the one with no prem experience (excluding the mickey mouse scots version - haha) From all logical viewpoints our key defender has to be Charlton, paired with either Flem (preferably) or Malky depending on the opponents strikeforce.

Dom - give the guy a break. Charlton has played well in non important friendlies and has a track record at a level well above anything Malkay or Flem have faced. If he looks abysmal by mid October then drop him - not before that though - as apart from Palace all the teams we are facing have superb strikers who have the ability to make any of our defenders look small...


OTBC

[machoman 0]

Amarillo - lighten up - anybody can pick out the one exceptional player that creates the rule. My list was pretty arbitrary and was only strikers - I could have gone on to name several midfielders and centrebacks who are also useful in the air. I was merely passing comment on the fact that I don''t think the premier league is played entirely on the floor and it would be foolish to underestimate the aerial threat of many premiership players. Would you think it OK then if we had a goalie of 5 ft 10 even if he could jump with great positional sense. Of course I''m exaggerating to demonstrate the point, but all I''m saying is that I would have felt happier with a quick and tall CB - I think it''s all too limited at the moment and we could end up badly exposed.

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

Agree ZLF, Charlton is proven, has looked good in pre-season and has done enough to have a starting place.

I think we did face a number of good strikers last year. Perhaps not World class but often touted as being Prem quality... Andy Johnson, Defoe, Earnshaw, Bent, David Johnson... and maybe some others. Okay, granted, not much top quality there.

[olster 0]

What a stupid post this is


So there is no corners or free kicks ? the ball is played on the floor the whole time ?

At the end of the day time will tell if charlton or fleming are going to be good enough in the air but nearly all of the teams are have got tall strikers


and ever people like les ferdinand who are under 6'' are good in the air


and van Persie is a winger i think

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

I think there are sometimes when we will get caught out by our height. However, as Worthy said on Sunday his main concern is pace. The only player he was worried about in the air was Duncan Fergurson.! The only striker in the Prem. I can see his point. Yes yes there are dozens of quality strikers in the top flight. However, if we have defenders who can hassle them and put them under pressure thats good enough. Of course there are height issues in corner and free kick situations, but players like francis will come back for those

[Campbell 0]

Amarillo:

one tall (6''2") pacey centre back who could command in the air. "Do we need a naval wing to our attack force as well? Can''t a player who''s 6'' or even 5''10 jump too? Kenton didn''t seem too troubled by taller players, he had a good jump on him."

You''re missing the point; Kenton never commanded anything in the air, players who aren''t physically big rarely do in the top flight. They may win headers occasionally, but they do not command. In the Premiership, all the big strikers know how to win headers, how to compete properly. So it is vitally important the centre back has a proper physical presence. It''s not necessarily about winning every single header, it''s about having a presence and being able to recover should you not win the header. Primus has that presence, he''s 6''1" and built like a proper athlete, which is why Worthington wanted him. Malky has that presence for us in Division One, because the players aren''t as clever and skilled. If Malky had a good turn of pace, we''d be sorted in that position in the Premiership. Since he does not, we need a commanding centre back with that physical presence.

a smaller centre back who can play with the ball at their feet and can read the game superbly.... "why, because bigger players can''t read the game? because bigger players can''t play with their feet? (remember Crouch?)"

I made the point about having smaller players who read the game well because it is relevant to us; we have two smaller players who read the game well! So we''re covered there. That''s my point. Since Norwich City cannot afford to buy a Rio Ferdinand or a Sol Campbell, we need a combination of the two vital attributes a defender at the top level needs. Don''t twist my point to suit your argument.