Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Delia, When Do I Start??

Time for the kids?

Recommended Posts


[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]we would be, about a point a game worse, we can''t afford that at the moment
[/quote]

How could we possibly be worse off by giving games to Daley and Renton - the current strikeforce are doing so well after all!!! It''s total lunacy that with our main striker ineligible the manager plays a midfielder as the sole striker ignoring the claims of OJ and Lupoli. Clearly GR has absolutely no confidence in either so they should be sent back immediately and the money re-invested in others.  

Wer''e losing games anyway so what could possibly be lost by introducing Daley and Renton??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Bloody hell we have gone full circle, we all wanted the kids put in the team back when Grant was destroying the club,wow how far we have come!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Fabregas- Poor Mans Ian Crook"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]what happens when they''re put in and can''t hack it tho?
[/quote]

Then we''re in no worse a position than we are already.
[/quote]

They get shot of there confidence and we end up with more Hendo''s/Jarvis''/Eagles and Martins.

NEVER NEVER NEVER introduce youngsters into a struggling team. Fergie/Wenger/Benitez et al have never done it. The time needs to be right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="can u sit down please"]

[quote user="Fabregas- Poor Mans Ian Crook"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]what happens when they''re put in and can''t hack it tho?[/quote]Then we''re in no worse a position than we are already.[/quote]

They get shot of there confidence and we end up with more Hendo''s/Jarvis''/Eagles and Martins.

NEVER NEVER NEVER introduce youngsters into a struggling team. Fergie/Wenger/Benitez et al have never done it. The time needs to be right.

[/quote]chris eagles and obafemi martins?! yes please! but seriuosly, my point was a rather negative the grass ain''t always greener... type thing, even if the grass this side is a dirty yellow colour...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Im The Krazy Kat"]

Have we reached a time now when we need the kids to have a game or too and look more at the future ??

I bet we will be defo save and roeder will still play the older boys instead of chucking in the young kids and see what they are like!!!

[/quote]

 

You''ve got more chance of seeing Tilly in the 1st team than our kids [:)]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="Im The Krazy Kat"]

Have we reached a time now when we need the kids to have a game or too and look more at the future ??

I bet we will be defo save and roeder will still play the older boys instead of chucking in the young kids and see what they are like!!!

[/quote]

 

You''ve got more chance of seeing Tilly in the 1st team than our kids [:)]

[/quote]

Oh come on, Tilly could be quite useful!!!!!  [:D]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fully agree . Why continue with the same old subs .If Lupilo isnt going to come on even for the last five minutes , when we are two down , then why not give the kids a little bit of experience. Can anyone tell us if Roeder ever brought through a say seventeen year old , in any of his previous clubs? Without cash , this must be the way forward . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope if the players like Renton and Daley get a game the fans show a bit more patience than they did with Spillane. 19 years old and inconsistent as you would expect, then lot of people then say he''s not good enough. If they come through and dont set the world alight at first i just hope there arnt a multitude of posts on here saying loan them to lower leagues and then say they have found they''re level. Ok Martin''s attitude is his problem i just didnt see that in Spillane when he played, just up and down performances, just like Bertrand and Omuzusi.

If we''re going to give the kids a game lets all actually give them a chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

I hope if the players like Renton and Daley get a game the fans show a bit more patience than they did with Spillane. 19 years old and inconsistent as you would expect, then lot of people then say he''s not good enough. If they come through and dont set the world alight at first i just hope there arnt a multitude of posts on here saying loan them to lower leagues and then say they have found they''re level. Ok Martin''s attitude is his problem i just didnt see that in Spillane when he played, just up and down performances, just like Bertrand and Omuzusi.

If we''re going to give the kids a game lets all actually give them a chance.

[/quote]

I think the problem is that you can''t really afford to give players too much time to prove themselves because if they''re not performing straight away then the side is weakened.

This is why I always say to look at the quality of Ched Evans and Ryan Bertrand. Two young and inexperienced players but their quality shone through very quickly. Even Kieran Gibbs, didn''t make anywhere near the same impact as the other two but some of his touches showed you he had better awareness than someone like Spillane or Rossi Jarvis.

I think the most recent bunch of youngsters are looking a better bet than the likes of the Jarvis boys, Spillane, Martin, Hendo and Eagle etc. Luke Daley might be worth a shot because of his pace, Renton looks decent but I think he''s another one who''ll struggle to make it at Championship level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="can u sit down please"]

[quote user="Fabregas- Poor Mans Ian Crook"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]what happens when they''re put in and can''t hack it tho?
[/quote]

Then we''re in no worse a position than we are already.
[/quote]

They get shot of there confidence and we end up with more Hendo''s/Jarvis''/Eagles and Martins.

NEVER NEVER NEVER introduce youngsters into a struggling team. Fergie/Wenger/Benitez et al have never done it. The time needs to be right.

[/quote]

You''ve clearly forgotten the impact Chris Martin made when he was introduced ''into a struggling team''?? The fact that he lost his way was very largely down to non footballing matters. In your opinion then, please tell us when it IS the rifght time to play these boys? If we were competing in the top 6 we sure as hell would''nt play them as no-one would want the manager to change a winning side. As far as I see it, it''s heads they lose and, oh dear, tails they lose as well! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="GJP"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

I hope if the players like Renton and Daley get a game the fans show a bit more patience than they did with Spillane. 19 years old and inconsistent as you would expect, then lot of people then say he''s not good enough. If they come through and dont set the world alight at first i just hope there arnt a multitude of posts on here saying loan them to lower leagues and then say they have found they''re level. Ok Martin''s attitude is his problem i just didnt see that in Spillane when he played, just up and down performances, just like Bertrand and Omuzusi.

If we''re going to give the kids a game lets all actually give them a chance.

[/quote]

I think the problem is that you can''t really afford to give players too much time to prove themselves because if they''re not performing straight away then the side is weakened.

This is why I always say to look at the quality of Ched Evans and Ryan Bertrand. Two young and inexperienced players but their quality shone through very quickly. Even Kieran Gibbs, didn''t make anywhere near the same impact as the other two but some of his touches showed you he had better awareness than someone like Spillane or Rossi Jarvis.

I think the most recent bunch of youngsters are looking a better bet than the likes of the Jarvis boys, Spillane, Martin, Hendo and Eagle etc. Luke Daley might be worth a shot because of his pace, Renton looks decent but I think he''s another one who''ll struggle to make it at Championship level.

[/quote]

 

I agree with what your saying we cant afford to give to much time for players to prove themselves in our current. But even if they come in and do well initially young players tend to tail off just as Bertrand has and Ched Evans did mid loan spell before picking up again towards the end.

I cant really say about the predigree of the current crop of youth players all i know is that Spillane was really highly regarded with the Ireland setup and also was player of the torunament for our youth team when we were involved in that international tournament against teams like Ajax and has had good games in the first team (i.e man city away, sheffield wednesday home on his debut) aswell as  poor one, I''m not so sure that Gibbs was that much better, but thats just my opinion.

Henderson  scored i think 6 goals in 22 apps from the wing in his first season in the first team before tailing off really badly (was also regular the england U18)and Ryan Jarvis was England U16 & U18 regular and scored goals at that level. So at the same time in their development i think they were showing just as much promise if not more than the current crop just something went badly wrong and they didnt develop. Martin also burst onto the scene before his attitude seems to have got in the way of any promise.

I want like alot of other people to see some young players given a chance I just hope the expectation levels arnt too high.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Im The Krazy Kat"]

Have we reached a time now when we need the kids to have a game or too and look more at the future ??

I bet we will be defo save and roeder will still play the older boys instead of chucking in the young kids and see what they are like!!!

[/quote]

Unlike you he see''s what they are like most days. Try going to some rezzie games polo and you''ll see why they''re not playing yet

Another two years and I''d say you''d have an argument.

The exception I''d make is Martin. Although he''s still as lazy as ever (that wont change - attitude too rotten)he just has that knack of being in the right place at the right time...... he''d have made a difference yesterday

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]what happens when they''re put in and can''t hack it tho?[/quote]Easy.  We start to boo them and post endless threads about how crap they are on this messageboard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Yellowbeagle"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

I hope if the players like Renton and Daley get a game the fans show a bit more patience than they did with Spillane. 19 years old and inconsistent as you would expect, then lot of people then say he''s not good enough. If they come through and dont set the world alight at first i just hope there arnt a multitude of posts on here saying loan them to lower leagues and then say they have found they''re level. Ok Martin''s attitude is his problem i just didnt see that in Spillane when he played, just up and down performances, just like Bertrand and Omuzusi.

If we''re going to give the kids a game lets all actually give them a chance.

[/quote]

I think the problem is that you can''t really afford to give players too much time to prove themselves because if they''re not performing straight away then the side is weakened.

This is why I always say to look at the quality of Ched Evans and Ryan Bertrand. Two young and inexperienced players but their quality shone through very quickly. Even Kieran Gibbs, didn''t make anywhere near the same impact as the other two but some of his touches showed you he had better awareness than someone like Spillane or Rossi Jarvis.

I think the most recent bunch of youngsters are looking a better bet than the likes of the Jarvis boys, Spillane, Martin, Hendo and Eagle etc. Luke Daley might be worth a shot because of his pace, Renton looks decent but I think he''s another one who''ll struggle to make it at Championship level.

[/quote]

 

I agree with what your saying we cant afford to give to much time for players to prove themselves in our current. But even if they come in and do well initially young players tend to tail off just as Bertrand has and Ched Evans did mid loan spell before picking up again towards the end.

I cant really say about the predigree of the current crop of youth players all i know is that Spillane was really highly regarded with the Ireland setup and also was player of the torunament for our youth team when we were involved in that international tournament against teams like Ajax and has had good games in the first team (i.e man city away, sheffield wednesday home on his debut) aswell as  poor one, I''m not so sure that Gibbs was that much better, but thats just my opinion.

Henderson  scored i think 6 goals in 22 apps from the wing in his first season in the first team before tailing off really badly (was also regular the england U18)and Ryan Jarvis was England U16 & U18 regular and scored goals at that level. So at the same time in their development i think they were showing just as much promise if not more than the current crop just something went badly wrong and they didnt develop. Martin also burst onto the scene before his attitude seems to have got in the way of any promise.

I want like alot of other people to see some young players given a chance I just hope the expectation levels arnt too high.

 

[/quote]

Yeah but doing things at that level of youth football counts for very little. You can be good at your age group but not anywhere near good enough to make the step up. An obvious example is Ryan Jarvis, never ever looked like he was good enough to play senior football at this level. You could have played him every game of the season but he wouldn''t have suddenly turned into the quality required.

Some people just aren''t good enough to make the step up it''s not that the coaching is wrong or that they''re not being given opportunities it''s just that the manager can see that they''re not going to make it.

I don''t understand your comment about expectation levels. You have to expect high standards, you have to have players that have got the drive and ability to get to where they need to be.

Perhaps that''s been the problem, our expectations aren''t as high as they should be.

That''s why Ched Evans is the best example for me. He''s got more ability than Ryan Jarvis and Chris Martin put together but he still worked very hard even when he wasn''t scoring goals. The other two were always lazy players.

You need hunger, where is the hunger going to come from if these lads get a run in the team just because they''re ours? People always talk about how our youngsters will play with passion but for most of them who have made appearances in recent teams that hasn''t been the case. Remember when Rossi Jarvis casually jogged over to take those corners at the end of the game against Scunny? (I think it was them) No urgency, no passion, no desire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="GJP"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

I hope if the players like Renton and Daley get a game the fans show a bit more patience than they did with Spillane. 19 years old and inconsistent as you would expect, then lot of people then say he''s not good enough. If they come through and dont set the world alight at first i just hope there arnt a multitude of posts on here saying loan them to lower leagues and then say they have found they''re level. Ok Martin''s attitude is his problem i just didnt see that in Spillane when he played, just up and down performances, just like Bertrand and Omuzusi.

If we''re going to give the kids a game lets all actually give them a chance.

[/quote]

I think the problem is that you can''t really afford to give players too much time to prove themselves because if they''re not performing straight away then the side is weakened.

This is why I always say to look at the quality of Ched Evans and Ryan Bertrand. Two young and inexperienced players but their quality shone through very quickly. Even Kieran Gibbs, didn''t make anywhere near the same impact as the other two but some of his touches showed you he had better awareness than someone like Spillane or Rossi Jarvis.

I think the most recent bunch of youngsters are looking a better bet than the likes of the Jarvis boys, Spillane, Martin, Hendo and Eagle etc. Luke Daley might be worth a shot because of his pace, Renton looks decent but I think he''s another one who''ll struggle to make it at Championship level.

[/quote]

 

I agree with what your saying we cant afford to give to much time for players to prove themselves in our current. But even if they come in and do well initially young players tend to tail off just as Bertrand has and Ched Evans did mid loan spell before picking up again towards the end.

I cant really say about the predigree of the current crop of youth players all i know is that Spillane was really highly regarded with the Ireland setup and also was player of the torunament for our youth team when we were involved in that international tournament against teams like Ajax and has had good games in the first team (i.e man city away, sheffield wednesday home on his debut) aswell as  poor one, I''m not so sure that Gibbs was that much better, but thats just my opinion.

Henderson  scored i think 6 goals in 22 apps from the wing in his first season in the first team before tailing off really badly (was also regular the england U18)and Ryan Jarvis was England U16 & U18 regular and scored goals at that level. So at the same time in their development i think they were showing just as much promise if not more than the current crop just something went badly wrong and they didnt develop. Martin also burst onto the scene before his attitude seems to have got in the way of any promise.

I want like alot of other people to see some young players given a chance I just hope the expectation levels arnt too high.

 

[/quote]

Yeah but doing things at that level of youth football counts for very little. You can be good at your age group but not anywhere near good enough to make the step up. An obvious example is Ryan Jarvis, never ever looked like he was good enough to play senior football at this level. You could have played him every game of the season but he wouldn''t have suddenly turned into the quality required.

Some people just aren''t good enough to make the step up it''s not that the coaching is wrong or that they''re not being given opportunities it''s just that the manager can see that they''re not going to make it.

I don''t understand your comment about expectation levels. You have to expect high standards, you have to have players that have got the drive and ability to get to where they need to be.

Perhaps that''s been the problem, our expectations aren''t as high as they should be.

That''s why Ched Evans is the best example for me. He''s got more ability than Ryan Jarvis and Chris Martin put together but he still worked very hard even when he wasn''t scoring goals. The other two were always lazy players.

You need hunger, where is the hunger going to come from if these lads get a run in the team just because they''re ours? People always talk about how our youngsters will play with passion but for most of them who have made appearances in recent teams that hasn''t been the case. Remember when Rossi Jarvis casually jogged over to take those corners at the end of the game against Scunny? (I think it was them) No urgency, no passion, no desire.

[/quote]

What i mean by expectation levels is if we''re bringing 18 year olds into a struggling team and expecting them to be far superior than whats already in the first 11. They may be good players but the struggling team of senior players may not give them the platform to show what they can do. It''s nothing to do with their personal ambition or desire which they obviously have to have, it''s the expectation from the fans for these kids to perform.  Unless you''ve an ego the size of Craig Bellamy''s if you come into a team that gives you not one opportunity or leaves you constantly exposed then everyone turns round and says rubbish player that may not be the case, but it could seriously damage a young players confidence, if they come in and dont perform straight away i just dont want to see them cast adrift.

I agree Ched Evans was better than Martin and Jarvis, but to say they never looked good enough is not true there may have been only glimpses but it was there, i remmember Jarvis goal against liverpool in the premier league, players without ability couldnt have done that. More so when Martin first broke into the team he looked just as good as Ched, he just couldnt keep it going.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

What i mean by expectation levels is if we''re bringing 18 year olds into a struggling team and expecting them to be far superior than whats already in the first 11. They may be good players but the struggling team of senior players may not give them the platform to show what they can do. It''s nothing to do with their personal ambition or desire which they obviously have to have, it''s the expectation from the fans for these kids to perform.  Unless you''ve an ego the size of Craig Bellamy''s if you come into a team that gives you not one opportunity or leaves you constantly exposed then everyone turns round and says rubbish player that may not be the case, but it could seriously damage a young players confidence, if they come in and dont perform straight away i just dont want to see them cast adrift.

I agree Ched Evans was better than Martin and Jarvis, but to say they never looked good enough is not true there may have been only glimpses but it was there, i remmember Jarvis goal against liverpool in the premier league, players without ability couldnt have done that. More so when Martin first broke into the team he looked just as good as Ched, he just couldnt keep it going.

[/quote]

They never looked good enough in my opinion, I was saying as much at the time. Martin you could see had some ability but I still thought he had a lot to do. The goal against Liverpool was the exception, not the rule, as far as Ryan Jarvis is concerned. He always had far too many weaknesses and limitations that were very apparent, which is why he hasn''t made it at this level.

Do you honestly think Martin looked as good as Ched Evans? I find that very hard to believe.

If there is a youth player out there who is causing the senior players all sorts of problems on the training ground then fair enough bring them in, give them a run and see what they can do. If they work hard and look to do the right things then keep them in the frame. If they''re not putting in the work and making you a weaker side then you can''t afford to persist with them.

They have to be equal or an improvement to what you''ve already got. Unless you''re miles clear at the top of the league and you can afford to drop some points and not worry about it.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="GJP"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

What i mean by expectation levels is if we''re bringing 18 year olds into a struggling team and expecting them to be far superior than whats already in the first 11. They may be good players but the struggling team of senior players may not give them the platform to show what they can do. It''s nothing to do with their personal ambition or desire which they obviously have to have, it''s the expectation from the fans for these kids to perform.  Unless you''ve an ego the size of Craig Bellamy''s if you come into a team that gives you not one opportunity or leaves you constantly exposed then everyone turns round and says rubbish player that may not be the case, but it could seriously damage a young players confidence, if they come in and dont perform straight away i just dont want to see them cast adrift.

I agree Ched Evans was better than Martin and Jarvis, but to say they never looked good enough is not true there may have been only glimpses but it was there, i remmember Jarvis goal against liverpool in the premier league, players without ability couldnt have done that. More so when Martin first broke into the team he looked just as good as Ched, he just couldnt keep it going.

[/quote]

They never looked good enough in my opinion, I was saying as much at the time. Martin you could see had some ability but I still thought he had a lot to do. The goal against Liverpool was the exception, not the rule, as far as Ryan Jarvis is concerned. He always had far too many weaknesses and limitations that were very apparent, which is why he hasn''t made it at this level.

Do you honestly think Martin looked as good as Ched Evans? I find that very hard to believe.

If there is a youth player out there who is causing the senior players all sorts of problems on the training ground then fair enough bring them in, give them a run and see what they can do. If they work hard and look to do the right things then keep them in the frame. If they''re not putting in the work and making you a weaker side then you can''t afford to persist with them.

They have to be equal or an improvement to what you''ve already got. Unless you''re miles clear at the top of the league and you can afford to drop some points and not worry about it.

 

 

 

[/quote]martins and hucks goals saved our bacon season before last...and dion and chedders chipped in last - so yeah, it can be done...but a mix of dads army and youth don''t always work - unless the former is a wise ole head with his legs intact, while the latter hits the ground running and plays beyond his tender years...third season running, it don''t look so good this time imo - cort is gamble too far for the position we are in,,,and as for pairing him with renton or daley...nah - don''t think so...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="GJP"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

What i mean by expectation levels is if we''re bringing 18 year olds into a struggling team and expecting them to be far superior than whats already in the first 11. They may be good players but the struggling team of senior players may not give them the platform to show what they can do. It''s nothing to do with their personal ambition or desire which they obviously have to have, it''s the expectation from the fans for these kids to perform.  Unless you''ve an ego the size of Craig Bellamy''s if you come into a team that gives you not one opportunity or leaves you constantly exposed then everyone turns round and says rubbish player that may not be the case, but it could seriously damage a young players confidence, if they come in and dont perform straight away i just dont want to see them cast adrift.

I agree Ched Evans was better than Martin and Jarvis, but to say they never looked good enough is not true there may have been only glimpses but it was there, i remmember Jarvis goal against liverpool in the premier league, players without ability couldnt have done that. More so when Martin first broke into the team he looked just as good as Ched, he just couldnt keep it going.

[/quote]

They never looked good enough in my opinion, I was saying as much at the time. Martin you could see had some ability but I still thought he had a lot to do. The goal against Liverpool was the exception, not the rule, as far as Ryan Jarvis is concerned. He always had far too many weaknesses and limitations that were very apparent, which is why he hasn''t made it at this level.

Do you honestly think Martin looked as good as Ched Evans? I find that very hard to believe.

If there is a youth player out there who is causing the senior players all sorts of problems on the training ground then fair enough bring them in, give them a run and see what they can do. If they work hard and look to do the right things then keep them in the frame. If they''re not putting in the work and making you a weaker side then you can''t afford to persist with them.

They have to be equal or an improvement to what you''ve already got. Unless you''re miles clear at the top of the league and you can afford to drop some points and not worry about it.

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

Of course I dont think Martin is as good a player as Ched, but in that second half of his first season when he performed well there was not much in it, if anything. Ched obviously has the far better character though and that enabled him to see and take on board advice that was given to him when he wasnt performing in the middle of that loan period. Really during that close season period when Martin was playing well, were you nearly the only person in Carrow road who didnt think he looked a good promising player.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...