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Patches OHoolahan

If we accept there is no investment...

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Hypothetically speaking, if we knew for a fact that there was absolutely no outside investment forthcoming in NCFC, how would people propose we move forward? Given all the calls for the board to go and Roeder to be sacked, would people still be shouting so loudly if they knew there was nobody there to replace them? Remember this is hypothetical, I don''t want to be polarised into either the pro/anti-board camps, as I don''t feel particularly affiliated with either.

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Hey PatchesI can''t believe no-one''s replied to this. Let''s face it it, the senario you describe of "absolutely no outside investment forthcoming in NCFC" is the most likely outcome for a long while. And a bit like you, I''m neither congenitally pro or anti the current board.In the absence of new cash, I''m afraid, as supporters, that there''s very little we can do to improve the situation. ''Pressurising'' the board won''t magically make new investment appear and the means of doing it (boycotts, booing, calling for Roeder''s dismissal etc) will actually jeapordise our chances of recovery. I wish it wasn''t so - but it is.As far as the supporters go, it''s a case of cross your fingers and keep turning up to games. As for the team/club, I know there is one thing we definitely shouldn''t do and that''s change the manager yet again. In the longer term. management stability gives us the best chance of improving things. And I say that as someone who is deeply sceptical of Roeder - but I do accept he has the makings of a competent manager at this level and we should give him time. Unfortunately, some of that time could be in the First Division.Miserable isn''t it?

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Slater, I agree with your points, and also see this as the depressing situation we are in at present re investment. While I accept a certain degree of frustration with our current board, I also don''t see how protesting will help the club find new investment, if the board are genuinely aiming to find new investment, which at least seems the case with the appointment of Harris. I also appreciate the inextricable link between off the pitch activities with regard to investment and on the pitch success, but again should we not try and make the best of our current situation. We have a good squad in my opinion all be it with several loans, as well as an experienced manager who took us on a superb run last year to avoid the drop as well as playing better football than other sides, and whilst I am not happy with Roeder''s AGM comments and other aspects of his performance, I too feel he should be given time to do a job. 

This view could theoretically render us fans impotent with regards to forcing change, but perhaps it is this feeling that impassions the arguments of those who would have us boycott games etc; just to feel like they are doing something, giving them a need to lash out. I too feel strongly about Norwich: it is the team I have supported from childhood, but I see no virtue in the destructive methods of the anti-board camp, nor do I think everything is rosy, we need to support the team as best as we can in our current circumstances, and simply hope that we demonstrate the quality  necessary to take the club to its full potential, if we have no imminent outside investment. 

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Without investment, we''re heading to League One and administration. We dont have squad anywhere NEAR good enough (I dont care how decent it looks on paper, the results speak for themselves) and with the loanees all going home soon....we''re looking more and more like relegation material every week. The vast majority of fans arent ''anti-board'', they are anti-''lack of investment'', and anti-''lack of money in the playing side''. That is why people are protesting against the board, it''s not so much the board themselves, but the fact that they seem both unable and unwilling to pursue any outside investment. See Cullum etc etc.

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I have just thought that if Delia and Michael care for for any ounce of this club they would start tucking into their humble pie - and agree to PC or re-negotiate offer!

January transfer window might mean we could ship out some dead wood, and replace with something half decent to ensure (can''t believe i''m saying it) Championship survival.

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I have some sympathy with people who are angry with the situation in which we find ourselves - I suppose the buck has to stop somewhere. However, I''m not so sure the current administration deserve all of the criticism they''re getting. After all, the main reason we''re losing money on a day to day basis is because we''re paying players more than we can really afford and every so often someone (Delia, MWJ, Turners, Cullum) is the chair to make up the shortfall. So in a funny kind of way the board is being a bit profligate. And I don''t hear anyone saying that the solution is to replace our squad with players who''ll play for less money (the implication being that the new players would be even worse.As for the Cullum situation, I''m sure I''m not the only on who thinks the man is being a bit of a pr1ck teaser. From what I''ve gleaned I don''t trust him and (irrespective of their own personal motivations to hang on) I don''t blame the board for being wary. Yes, if we are to prosper soon we''ll need new cash but I doubt very much it''s going to come from Cullum.Colchester: both Grant and Roeder shipped out a considerable amount of ''dead wood. I don''t think we could afford to do it again and I''m not so sure it''s desirable. If we''re going to survive it''ll have to be as a result of this core of players gelling and achieving some kind of consistency. We can tweak a bit but that''s it.

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Far better to have any monies Delia and the board can summon up than nothing at all.  No where else is the adage cutting of your nose to spite your face, more applicable than on this forum at times.

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Thats the point though - PC''s offer is not as great as it sounds and if he cared that much for the club he would already own shares would he not? It''s not like it has been difficult to find or get hold of them with the various schemes in the past few years yet he doesn''t seem to have any does he?

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[quote user="Patches OHoolahan"]Hypothetically speaking, if we knew for a fact that there was absolutely no outside investment forthcoming in NCFC, how would people propose we move forward? Given all the calls for the board to go and Roeder to be sacked, would people still be shouting so loudly if they knew there was nobody there to replace them? Remember this is hypothetical, I don''t want to be polarised into either the pro/anti-board camps, as I don''t feel particularly affiliated with either.[/quote]

Are people shouting loudly?

Well forgive me but I must be going a mutton deaf in my old age then... because I haven''t heard a dicky bird of dissent aimed in Delia & Michaels direction so they get the message loud and clear at Carrow Road.

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A pertinent question Smudge. I was meaning particularly on this messageboard, which I appreciate does not constitute a direct challenge to the position of the board. However you haven''t really answered my question, as to the future of the club should there be nobody to replace the current board- how would you move forward? Would you protest against the board, boycott the club through a refusal to buy club merchandise, or maybe even organise your own little ''Smudge Putsch'' from the beer halls of Norwich?

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[quote user="chicken"]Thats the point though - PC''s offer is not as great as it sounds and if he cared that much for the club he would already own shares would he not? It''s not like it has been difficult to find or get hold of them with the various schemes in the past few years yet he doesn''t seem to have any does he?
[/quote]

Why is it PC''s concern to sort the club out?  Other than being a fan of NCFC since boyhood he owes us nothing.  Surely it''s down to our current board, who have by one way or another, got us into this mess, to now get us out.

They are that clueless they asked the shareholders for ideas. 

If I were in the boards shoes, I would be going to PC cap in hand and courting him in any way I could to get some much needed cash for our squad.  Deals can always be done if you find a middle ground, the middle ground AFAIC is both love NCFC, so surely as one who is willing to invest and one who needs investments they would thrash out a deal?

The bigger question is why haven''t they had proper round the table discussions with PC, or in fact any other investor?

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[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

The bigger question is why haven''t they had proper round the table discussions with PC, or in fact any other investor?

[/quote]Well that''s not a very big question. Mr Cullum wanted to invest in the club through the purchase of new shares, money that would go directly to NCFC. Mr & Mrs Wynn-Jones require any new investor to purchase existing shares, money that would go straight into the pockets of existing shareholders and not the club. This is one reason why Marcus Evans would not have been interested in NCFC - he took over at the scum through the creation of new shares. It seems entirely likely that the reason there have been no discussions with any other investor is that there is no-one who wants NCFC on Mr & Mrs Wynn-Jones''s terms.

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[quote user="Reg Presley"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

The bigger question is why haven''t they had proper round the table discussions with PC, or in fact any other investor?

[/quote]

Well that''s not a very big question. Mr Cullum wanted to invest in the club through the purchase of new shares, money that would go directly to NCFC. Mr & Mrs Wynn-Jones require any new investor to purchase existing shares, money that would go straight into the pockets of existing shareholders and not the club. This is one reason why Marcus Evans would not have been interested in NCFC - he took over at the scum through the creation of new shares. It seems entirely likely that the reason there have been no discussions with any other investor is that there is no-one who wants NCFC on Mr & Mrs Wynn-Jones''s terms.
[/quote]Nail hit firmly on the head there mate

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[quote user="Reg Presley"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

The bigger question is why haven''t they had proper round the table discussions with PC, or in fact any other investor?

[/quote]

Well that''s not a very big question. Mr Cullum wanted to invest in the club through the purchase of new shares, money that would go directly to NCFC. Mr & Mrs Wynn-Jones require any new investor to purchase existing shares, money that would go straight into the pockets of existing shareholders and not the club. This is one reason why Marcus Evans would not have been interested in NCFC - he took over at the scum through the creation of new shares. It seems entirely likely that the reason there have been no discussions with any other investor is that there is no-one who wants NCFC on Mr & Mrs Wynn-Jones''s terms.
[/quote]

I believe they haven''t even met with him.

What I am trying to get my head around is, that he has money to invest, they need money.

Common sense would surely say that they need to find a deal for the good of the club.

Oh well, I am getting past caring now.

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[quote user="Reg Presley"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

The bigger question is why haven''t they had proper round the table discussions with PC, or in fact any other investor?

[/quote]

Well that''s not a very big question. Mr Cullum wanted to invest in the club through the purchase of new shares, money that would go directly to NCFC. Mr & Mrs Wynn-Jones require any new investor to purchase existing shares, money that would go straight into the pockets of existing shareholders and not the club. This is one reason why Marcus Evans would not have been interested in NCFC - he took over at the scum through the creation of new shares. It seems entirely likely that the reason there have been no discussions with any other investor is that there is no-one who wants NCFC on Mr & Mrs Wynn-Jones''s terms.
[/quote]

[Y][8-|]

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How many times? He wanted to invest money directly into the playing budget not into the hands of existing shareholders. Like the rest of us he no doubt believed what Mrs Wynn-Jones had said on the subject many times, but now that she and her husband have revealed their true position common sense says that there can be no common ground between them.

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how do we know that any new investor has the clubs best interest at heart?

what galls me is that delia is one of the richest women in the country but is happy playing shop with out of date stock.

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Where''s the objectors to this post? Why aren''t they putting their slant on it?.......Do they agree, or is it a bit too close to the truth?[^o)]

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Deviating slightly from the original point of the thread, what makes a sort of ''coalition'' between Delia etc and Cullum so unfeasible- I know he said he would want complete control for the investment of £20 million, but does that have to be purely on business terms, could Delia etc not retain their shareholding, PC buy up new shares and take control, with Delia and Michael as members of the board in a lesser capacity to present. Or is it that if Delia and co are to break from the club, they would want a complete separation rather than a partial one. It is quite a subjective issue, and can be swung in either direction IMO...

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  The best investor for the team would be Cullum, or someone of like mind, assuming there are any other NCFC billionaire hardcore Norwich fans.  Someone as wealthy as he is, and as dedicated a fan as he is, would be willing to put good money after bad (assuming the good money didn''t work the first time) because he (like you and I) wants more than anything, for Norwich to succeed. 

  Beyond that, there are obviously plenty of foreign investors who are more interested in the high profile position of owning an English soccer club than they are in making a profit from it.  The cache that comes with ownership of a high profile sports team is worth it (to them) compared to whatever financial losses the team itself may incur.  There are several, if not many, English teams that have ownership from way beyond the island, such as Leicester, Wigan, Portsmouth, and ?????? I forget who.  Anyways, my point is, those clubs are traditionally no better off than NCFC, and for most of my time following the team (since 1972) they have been behind us in the standings or in lower divisions.  And yet, they have ultra-rich owners whose business co-horts don''t likely know one division from the next, but are super impressed that these fellows own soccer clubs in England. 

  These teams are no more high profile or desirably located than Norwich, and in the case of Portsmouth and their Russian owner, Russia is so huge that NOWHERE in Enlgand would seem very far from the bright lights. My only caveat here is that we don''t settle for some crook, like the Portsmouth owner apparently is.

  Owning the team for them would be like paying for advertising.  It is an expense they endure because it pays off.  They don''t make money on the ownership, they make money on the high profile it gives them. From what I can tell, Delia Smith is too worried about making a profit which is what is slowing her from selling out.   The Cullum option would be the best, but there ARE other options out there if the team is properly marketed, and we have a good recent (70''s - mid 90''s) history that would attract this type of investor, I am sure.

Comments anyone???

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[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="Reg Presley"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

The bigger question is why haven''t they had proper round the table discussions with PC, or in fact any other investor?

[/quote]Well that''s not a very big question. Mr Cullum wanted to invest in the club through the purchase of new shares, money that would go directly to NCFC. Mr & Mrs Wynn-Jones require any new investor to purchase existing shares, money that would go straight into the pockets of existing shareholders and not the club. This is one reason why Marcus Evans would not have been interested in NCFC - he took over at the scum through the creation of new shares. It seems entirely likely that the reason there have been no discussions with any other investor is that there is no-one who wants NCFC on Mr & Mrs Wynn-Jones''s terms.[/quote]

[Y][8-|]

[/quote]Am I wrong in thinking that, if he took control in this manner he would have purchased more than a 30% stakein the plc. Therefore would be legally obliged to offer the same price the new shares were bought for to all existing shareholders to purchase their shares. Those shareholders can choose not to sell - but it sounds like Delia & Michael would have taken the opportunity to sell up. This would have cost Cullum more than he was prepared to pay.Someone who knows more than me about such things would need to comment.

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"quote user="Patches O''Hoolahan"  "Deviating slightly from the original point of the thread, what makes a sort of ''coalition'' between Delia etc and Cullum so unfeasible- I know he said he would want complete control for the investment of £20 million, but does that have to be purely on business terms, could Delia etc not retain their shareholding, PC buy up new shares and take control, with Delia and Michael as members of the board in a lesser capacity to present. Or is it that if Delia and co are to break from the club, they would want a complete separation rather than a partial one. It is quite a subjective issue, and can be swung in either direction IMO..."

 

 

If you look back at Cullums public statements i think it`s clear this is exactly what he wanted.  The problem is that he has the money and desire to invest but MUST have full control over that money if it goes into the club, but he doesn`t have the expertise or desire to 100% run a football club.  The Wynne-Jones`s have that desire and experience (and interests tied with the club ie.Delias restaurants), but (IMO) don`t want to run a club they are not in control of and don`t want to be left with a minority stake that they may well struggle to shift.

Somewhere in all that lies the "Good of the club" but i really don`t think this has come first in recent months. 

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