Lets be honest...this is crap

[pennywise 0]

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"][quote user="wayne kerr"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"][quote user="Mr Coypu"]

Iv''e never left a game early.....but these days i cut out the middle man and never go

 

[/quote]

Sorry...but this was wonderful. 10/10 [*]

[/quote]

if  you ever went to a game you`d probably leave early to be first to post your  bile on here

[/quote]

Oooooooooooh....and what a brilliant username. Been on a Club 18-30s holiday then?

Knob.

[/quote]

i know you are but what am i ?

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 405]

I blame our current board and the loss of the good old terrace.

Football lost it''s atmosphere when the seats arrived. With the seats came a new breed of fan, they are entertainment fans rather than footbll fans. 25,000 theatre luvvies.[:D][:D]

[corbs 0]

Personally I enjoy things now a lot more than when we were in the premiership. It is not compulsory to watch Norwich, and people always have and always will drift away for many reasons. I know a supporter who has never gone since the Club put seating into the South Stand where he used to stand.

[......and Smith must score. 1,334]

[quote user="No Quarter"]

Ho hum , your avatar of Tony Martin with "sharp shooter" hardly makes you a candidate for MENSA.  I''m just being honest.

[/quote]

Quite......With his wit and flair I''m confident that Sharp Shooter has his sights set on a career as an after-dinner speaker.

 

[Jimbo_Jet_Set 0]

I don''t think that this feeling of disillusionment is unique to Norwich.  Sadly it seems to be the way football is going these days.  Money is everything and as a result many fans feel a sense of detachment from clubs they used to feel part of. It is very diificult for the ordinary fan these days to empathise with a player earning £20000 a week.  A club needs money just to stand still and clubs like Norwich (who don''t have money) have to face up to a future of years in the wilderness.  I imagine it must be the same for fans of clubs like Southampton, Millwall and Notts Forest.  These are all clubs which are a heartbeat for their local community but have little or no chance of sustained success.  Even supporting a team like Middlesborough or Blackburn must be thouroughly disheartening these days because there is no way they are ever going to even challenge for the Premiership.  The best they can hope for is to muddle along in the league and try to put together a decent cup run. 

If you were a kid these days, who would you choose to support?  Your local team who have 0% chance of making it to the top of the Premier league without a billionaire backer or one of the top 4 who you can see week in week out on TV.  I''m not saying it''s right but you can see why they do it

When i started going to Norwich games in the late 80s ( i''m only 28) there was a shared sense that anything was possible.  With a good manager, shrewd signings and a bit of luck we could challenge the "big" teams consistently and did.  The good young players were not all snapped up by the top sides, quality international players would come to Norwich.  These days we can''t even compete for League 1 players in the transfer market.

Football fans need hope and the problem with Norwich is that we don''t have any at the moment ( why do you think so many people are desperate to cling on to any Peter Cullum rumour).  The club like many others has lost direction.  The way a football was run even 10 years ago does not work today and i don''t think many people (least of all our beloved board) know whether to stick or twist.  As a result the club meanders towards obscurity and fans drift away.  It is a sad state of affairs when the only way to achieve lasting success is to buy it.

[cannycanary 0]

After some of the stupid posts on this thread i think No Quarter may have another Epiphany soon and get up from his PC and not come back to this forum.

[......and Smith must score. 1,334]

[quote user="wayne kerr"][quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"][quote user="Mr Coypu"]

Iv''e never left a game early.....but these days i cut out the middle man and never go

 

[/quote]

Sorry...but this was wonderful. 10/10 [*]

[/quote]

if  you ever went to a game you`d probably leave early to be first to post your  bile on here

[/quote]

Yes, he probably would but it''s still a brilliant post from Mr.C.......

[Fuglestad 0]

[quote user="Jimbo_Jet_Set"]

I don''t think that this feeling of disillusionment is unique to Norwich.  Sadly it seems to be the way football is going these days.  Money is everything and as a result many fans feel a sense of detachment from clubs they used to feel part of. It is very diificult for the ordinary fan these days to empathise with a player earning £20000 a week.  A club needs money just to stand still and clubs like Norwich (who don''t have money) have to face up to a future of years in the wilderness.  I imagine it must be the same for fans of clubs like Southampton, Millwall and Notts Forest.  These are all clubs which are a heartbeat for their local community but have little or no chance of sustained success.  Even supporting a team like Middlesborough or Blackburn must be thouroughly disheartening these days because there is no way they are ever going to even challenge for the Premiership.  The best they can hope for is to muddle along in the league and try to put together a decent cup run. 

If you were a kid these days, who would you choose to support?  Your local team who have 0% chance of making it to the top of the Premier league without a billionaire backer or one of the top 4 who you can see week in week out on TV.  I''m not saying it''s right but you can see why they do it

When i started going to Norwich games in the late 80s ( i''m only 28) there was a shared sense that anything was possible.  With a good manager, shrewd signings and a bit of luck we could challenge the "big" teams consistently and did.  The good young players were not all snapped up by the top sides, quality international players would come to Norwich.  These days we can''t even compete for League 1 players in the transfer market.

Football fans need hope and the problem with Norwich is that we don''t have any at the moment ( why do you think so many people are desperate to cling on to any Peter Cullum rumour).  The club like many others has lost direction.  The way a football was run even 10 years ago does not work today and i don''t think many people (least of all our beloved board) know whether to stick or twist.  As a result the club meanders towards obscurity and fans drift away.  It is a sad state of affairs when the only way to achieve lasting success is to buy it.

[/quote]

Great post Jimbo. I think a lot of people see this problem as unique to Norwich City. Modern football is rubbish. The money men have killed it.

[......and Smith must score. 1,334]

Great post JJJ as was Gazza''s reply to No Quarter''s excellent opener.

To us '' oldies '' the whole state of football today is pretty depressing. Of course the current malaise of NCFC is our main concern. I don''t feel at all at ease with this loan system we have to endure. Yes, we had our share of loan players back in the days when everything was so much simpler but they were always here until the end of that particular season. There was none of this trying to work out who''s here until Christmas, derby day or whatever. With so many players just passing through it''s not surprising that there''s little team spirit any more.

Sure, we did buy some donkeys when the Club actually '' owned '' nearly all the players but you knew then that they would all be here for at least one full season and would at least  be identified as a good ''un or not somewhere in supporters minds. Today I can hardly remember half the players we''ve had here in the last couple of years and I''ve become pretty dis-illusioned with the whole Club.

As things stand we look a reasonable bet for relegation but we may possibly survive if another Club or two '' does a Woolies '' and goes into administration. The automatic ten point deduction would then, I hope, be enough to thwart even our best efforts to see what goes on in Division One.

If, on the other hand,  we ourselves fall into administration then surely it must be '' Goodnight Vienna '' for us too.

   

[Match Day Pie 0]

I totally empathise with a lot of this. Interesting to see people looking at the bigger picture, however depressing it is. And of course the usual drivel from Cluck.

Football in general has warped our expectations, and I wonder if the problem at Carrow road isn''t self-perpetuating. By that I mean that as things get worse, the more our hopes are raised every time we get a new manager/players but consequently our patience gets thinner and thinner.

I thought this because of what everyone''s been saying about the old days. Back then, money didn''t play such a part and we had more of a patient mindset - you''d more happily watch players bed in over a couple of years, knowing that you might have the odd mid-season flirt with the relegation zone as they did so. Now players barely get 10 games and we''ve made our minds up about them. People hated Malkay and Iwan when they were first here - now they''re heroes.

It''s a horrible thing to say but in many ways we''d have been better getting relegated from the Prem without that hope-raising run towards the end. It gave us false expectations, ridiculously damaging pressure at the start of the following season and masked what a tactically naive manager Worthy really was. Since then, there seems to have been a very nasty atmosphere at Carrow Road, which is understandable (if not excusable) because people feel robbed, but I''m not sure it''s fair that the current team and management deserve to be on the end of it. Because if we get rid of this lot, the same will happen to the next. And it will continue until someone either pumps wads of cash into the club or we go bust.

I''m 36 and have had a season ticket since I was 13, and have recently stopped going too, because it''s just too much emotional effort right now. I love the club but I can''t sit in the Barclay and hear the joy some people get out of baiting our players - I can''t watch a team I know are capable of some lovely football capitulating so easily to some appalling Championship sides - and I can''t sit through any more games where our team gets dragged into a slug-fest with some long-ball merchants.

The Championship reminds me of the late eighties/early nineties 1st div lower league table: average football with a creeping feeling of malaise and ''why do I bother'', and I hate it. For that reason, painful though it is, I''m going to ignore Carrow Road for a few months until some sort of stability is achieved and our expectations therefore become more realistic.

Quite whether that will ever happen is not something I''m overly confident about, but I dearly miss the togetherness of good times at Carrow Road, and I fear they may have gone forever.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="Match Day Pie"]I totally empathise with a lot of this. Interesting to see people looking at the bigger picture, however depressing it is. And of course the usual drivel from Cluck. Football in general has warped our expectations, and I wonder if the problem at Carrow road isn''t self-perpetuating. By that I mean that as things get worse, the more our hopes are raised every time we get a new manager/players but consequently our patience gets thinner and thinner. I thought this because of what everyone''s been saying about the old days. Back then, money didn''t play such a part and we had more of a patient mindset - you''d more happily watch players bed in over a couple of years, knowing that you might have the odd mid-season flirt with the relegation zone as they did so. Now players barely get 10 games and we''ve made our minds up about them. People hated Malkay and Iwan when they were first here - now they''re heroes. It''s a horrible thing to say but in many ways we''d have been better getting relegated from the Prem without that hope-raising run towards the end. It gave us false expectations, ridiculously damaging pressure at the start of the following season and masked what a tactically naive manager Worthy really was. Since then, there seems to have been a very nasty atmosphere at Carrow Road, which is understandable (if not excusable) because people feel robbed, but I''m not sure it''s fair that the current team and management deserve to be on the end of it. Because if we get rid of this lot, the same will happen to the next. And it will continue until someone either pumps wads of cash into the club or we go bust. I''m 36 and have had a season ticket since I was 13, and have recently stopped going too, because it''s just too much emotional effort right now. I love the club but I can''t sit in the Barclay and hear the joy some people get out of baiting our players - I can''t watch a team I know are capable of some lovely football capitulating so easily to some appalling Championship sides - and I can''t sit through any more games where our team gets dragged into a slug-fest with some long-ball merchants. The Championship reminds me of the late eighties/early nineties 1st div lower league table: average football with a creeping feeling of malaise and ''why do I bother'', and I hate it. For that reason, painful though it is, I''m going to ignore Carrow Road for a few months until some sort of stability is achieved and our expectations therefore become more realistic. Quite whether that will ever happen is not something I''m overly confident about, but I dearly miss the togetherness of good times at Carrow Road, and I fear they may have gone forever.[/quote]

 

Must say I agree with many of the excellent posts in this thread and share the feelings of many of you. I and many of my mates feel very much the same way. I have had some fantastic times watching Norwich City over the years but at the moment I am genuinely worried that those days are over and its never going to be quite the same again. I am approaching 30 now and bar 2 seasons have had a season ticket since 1985. In that time I cannot recall a time when I got less of a buzz out of going to Carrow Road and most away games are pretty drab affairs. Its not just a Norwich problem as i think football fans nationwide are feeling the same its just a case of the fact that the game and the general matchday experience is barely recognisable from that which many of us were brought up with. Funnily enough last saturday at Forest was the closest i can recall to how things used to be but i think thats just because a lot of people had decided they were going to make a day out of it and there were a few more old school faces about. I''m sure Ipswich in a couple of weeks may also be a bit better (as people come out of the woodwork for that one) but in general the atmosphere at Carrow Road is pathetic these days. Even in the pubs there''s no real buzz. In the Coach and Horses there used to be singing every week post match - now its like a morgue!

The current city saide has no real heroes to identify with. Although I understand why in moderation it can be a good thing i hate the loans. The crowd has lost hope to the extent that most of us can''t be bothered to even boo the team or give the board some stick. Many of the traditonal fans have been replaced by clapping seals who are just happy to come along every couple of weeks and watch utter cr*p.

Football as we know it is dieing and i''m not sure whether we can get it back!

 

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="chicken"]Up until we were promoted and perhaps even half way through that premiership season people seemed to keep their feet well and truly on the ground. We had been told at the begining of the promotion season that we didn''t have much cash. We were told upon promotion that it would allow us to "compete" for a few more seasons without too much to worry about. The premiership was going to be a battle faught on a tight budget with a relatively fresh manager. I don''t see that season as being horrific in anyway - we missed staying up by a very very slim margin, one of the slimmest for a while and we did so on less cash than most.However it all changed as you suggest - expectancy seemed to jump

through the roof and was for the large part unfounded. And it stayed

after relagation.[/quote]Sorry Chicken but I have to take you up on this.  Yes the Premiership was a battle fought for us on a tight budget but it didn''t have to be.  The board of NCFC decided it would a tight budget it wasn''t forced upon them.  We spent a lot of money on Ashton in the January of that season and still managed to make the biggest profit I can remember as a City supporter.  Not for the last time City went through the season with a wait and see, then react attitude (like buying the striker we needed several months too late) rather than being proactive.As for the expenctancy being too high after relegation. well I am dumbfounded by that to be honest.  We had won this very league only 2 years previously, we had only just been relegated from the PL, we just returned a rather large profit, we had parachute payments, we had more season ticket holders than any other club in this league and we had some top quality players.  Was it really too much to expect that we would have been able to compete for the play-offs?  I don''t think so.

[crowey66 0]

That has to be the best post i''ve seen on here for a long time and i totally understand where you are coming from and why you posted it.I''ve beeen going since 78 and had a season ticket for 22 years,i remember the great players who were not just great playersbut real men who cared about the club as much as the fans did.I even named my boy Keelan after the great man himself.My biggest thrill was walking out of the Olympic stadium after beating Bayern and thinking theres not a drug on the planet can get me as high as this,all a distant memory.It pains me to say but i think this is the year we go down,we''ve flirted with relegation too many times now and this year will be the one.My only hope is that then we will be forced to use the young uns and though it may take some time we will finally have a team that has grown together and not a bunch of tossers who dont give a shit about the club.I will say to you all what i say to my son who has a season ticket with me and gets so much stick at school from the glory hunting man u''s and chelseas "KEEP THE FAITH".

[Plastic Scouser 0]

Some fantastic posts on here - kudos to No Quarter & Gazza especially.I''m not a season ticket holder, I live 250 miles away and don''t get to see a game too often but I''ve followed City since the early 70''s when my Dad took me to my first game.   I''ve lived through the highs & lows of supporting City at home & away - Dad always had a spare ticket when I wanted it or I''d go with my mates & stand in the Barclay.   I''ve been there when we''ve been relegated & I''ve been there when we''ve been promoted but I too have started to actually despair about the current state of the club.   I can''t summon up the enthusiasm to post on here very often due to this malaise - I''ve lost the will to.      When people ask me who I support I''ll always say Norwich - up here in the North West, the Scousers & the Mancs all have a grudging respect for "little old Norwich", for the team that liked to play attractive football on the floor, who produced some great players who went on to bigger & better things with their teams - the likes of Bruce, Phelan & Watson always crop up.But when it comes to Saturday or mid-week, do I rush to the radio to hear Sports Report as I did when I was a kid?   Do I bother about shelling out for Canaries World so that I can listen to the commentary online?  Do I sit watching the BBC live scores?   Do I heck!     Whilst Norwich City will always be in my blood and in my son''s blood - God love him he tells all the kids at his primary that we''ve won "millions of cups" - I''ve lost the desire, the heart, the will to be an avid fan.Fairweather fan or not, I applaud those of you who shell out hundreds for your season tickets and then endure the rubbish that we''ve been condemned to for the past couple of seasons.      We''ve always been a "small" club - we''re condemned by geography on that front, but we''ve never been a "small" club mentally, nor in the minds of the supporters.   We''ve played attractive one-touch football with the best of them, matching the likes of Man Utd or Liverpool and we were respected for that.   Even in the years we we played in the lower division, our reputation was as a team to beat, a team that played good football and a team that produced good, solid, effective players.   Where has that gone now?    We have a team made up of loan players and makeweights.   Where are the new crop of City players?   The conveyor belt is completely rusted up isn''t it?    Remember how we used to produce the likes of Barham, Mendham, Sutton, Fox, Gordon etc?   Remember how we used to make sensible, bargain buys bringing in the likes of Bowen, Culverhouse, Deehan etc?Yes, I might be harking back to a golden age, but given that so much revolves around money, surely that money should be invested for the future, where is the youth development, where are the scouts looking for those bargain buys?     We''ve not got any money now, why?   It''s not as if it''s been any great suprise that we''re in the current predicament is it?    Anyone with a head for business should have been able to see the writing on the wall a long while ago - why was no action taken then?It shows how bad things have become when I find that I''m not the only one feeling like this.   Perhaps someone should forward this thread on to the likes of Doncaster, Delia etc to show how deep the malaise is within the supporters?

[Ren 75]

Some great posts on here and this is exactly where I am at at present.  I have been a season ticket holder since 1985 with only a few years away as a student (even then I think I went to 15 home games a season), but I feel ready to jack it all in.  The whole way football has gone and continues to head is just depressing.

I think the Bolton chairmans idea will happen, in some form or another, and that will be the excuse I have needed to just stop going.  I am an all or nothing person by nature and I dont think there will be any comeback once I stop going.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

What a refreshing thread this is. City fans posting from the heart. I have little to add except to say that I don''t take it out on my club because rightly or wrongly I believe that while our board have made some mistakes most of the problems are caused by football authorities, and specifically the FA, allowing our game to be hijacked by those who only have selfish interests.

 

[DEB (never forgotten) 0]

[quote user="No Quarter"]I had one of those "moments" at the game last night. An epiphany if you will.  It got to about 60 mins and we had just scored, and I looked around me, saw everyone leaping about because we scored, and it suddenly occured to me.  This is crap.  I surveyd the area of the Barclay where I once stood with my mates, where I saw us beat Southampton in the FA cup quarter final, where I witnessed Flecky demolish Liverpool, where we had a crowd so loud my ears would ring and then where I''ve then sat and seen us see off Bayern Munich, win League One and countless other landmark moments in my life.  I then done the unthinkable and simply walked out.  For the first time in my life I left a game with 30 mins to go, and after we had just scored.  And it really hurt.  However, I suddenly realised that I don''t recognise Carrow Road, the players in the yellow and green or the supporters around me anymore.  I''m 33 and have been a season ticket holder since I was 4.    At that moment, all I could hear was "sit down please" from an over zealous steward, and the latest "terrace comedian" behind me.  I know people may brand me "fairweather", but that really isn''t the case.  I just feel that I have almost grown out of going to Carrow Road now.  I can''t relate to anybody around me, as a lot of them have only been going 4 or 5 years.  Fine.  For me though I remember my heroes (Fleck, Gunn, Ruel, Disco,Crook, Goss, Bruce, Watson, Newsome , Eadie etc etc etc), and it was these players I loved going to see, and the general atmosphere generated by the crowd.  Now there is no atmosphere or heroes.  I almost felt like Brooks in The Shawshank Redemption when he is released from prison, and see''s the state of the modern world.  Sorry to be a bit morbid, but thats just how I feel.[/quote]

I know exactly how you feel.

 

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"][quote user="chicken"][quote user="Colchester Canary"]

I know what you mean about the characters of NCFC.

Even a few years back with Malky, Iwan & Greeno.

I forgot the other week we had Lee Camp on loan. The loan players come in for a bit - don''t give a toss - and off they go back to where they came from.

The atmosphere in the crowd has definately changed - and the turning point for me was the start of season after being relegated 3/4 years ago.

The last home game (in prem) against brum was good - and same for most that year. Championship winning season (against Preston) awesome day - one of the best!

[/quote]I totally agree with you CC.Up until we were promoted and perhaps even half way through that premiership season people seemed to keep their feet well and truly on the ground. We had been told at the begining of the promotion season that we didn''t have much cash. We were told upon promotion that it would allow us to "compete" for a few more seasons without too much to worry about. The premiership was going to be a battle faught on a tight budget with a relatively fresh manager. I don''t see that season as being horrific in anyway - we missed staying up by a very very slim margin, one of the slimmest for a while and we did so on less cash than most.However it all changed as you suggest - expectancy seemed to jump through the roof and was for the large part unfounded. And it stayed after relagation.People like Smudger and Cluck seemed to relish in the fact that we have no money - this has been the case since even before Smith and Jones came along - we were never big spenders.I am 26 and rank many of the names origanlly mentioned as heroes of mine back then and also the likes of Iwan Roberts and Nedergaard. But I also remember how easy it was for a player to make an impression on our squad. Nielsen is a good example of this - people seem to look back on him negatively but he was a good player at this level.I too look at the squad now and wonder what "hero" there is to be had. I personally rate Russell but maybe that is because our ages are similar and I remember watching him come through our ranks and he always gives his all.The biggest problem we have had and I have said this time and time again is that we can not even field the same team two weeks in a row. The play-off final season we had a pretty un-convincing team compared to that of the others in the top six but they did it because we had few injuries. That in itself allowed confidence to build within the team. That and we had some good solid pros who had been at the club for some time.Promotion was the same - Fleming, Malky, Iwan, Mulryne, McVeigh - all had been at the club for years and knew what it was all about. You look at our squad and the only players you could consider to have been here long term are Drury and Russell with I suppose Doherty as well now. Its not much to build a team around especially when Drury and Doherty seem to be out of favour, Russell and his disiplin.Not only does that mean we have a very young team out it also means that most of these players have been playing together for less that two seasons. We had to go through some pretty difficult and non-eventful seasons to get to the play-off finals and then promotion - and had to endure some rather strange signings as well - mainly due to lack of funds. But time and a lack of injuries was the greatest builder back then. I wonder if that is the problem now - just that no one is prepared to give it anymore.[/quote]

Utter billhooks as usual from you. Why is it that you come across as the typical over-loyal party line apologist...not dissimilar to those patronisingly nodding Labour Party front benchers at PMQs when agreeing with anything their great leader Gordon Brown says? The lies of the past decade or so of New Labour run very closely to the tenure of Smith at NCFC...and the outcome is also likely to be identical. Bankruptcy based on ineptitude...carefully hidden by lies and spin.

 

[/quote]Lies and spin hey - you should know all about them. I am known for saying things how I see them - and I will say what I see now. I see that you and Smudge have this ongoing HATRED towards our share-holders, you say that you have always dissliked them - yet why is it that although this forum has been running for a long time you and Smudge have not been here since after we were relegated from the Premiership?Sure you are going to tell me that you changed user names and that before you were known as something else, thats a great get out of jail card.However I remember this forum before on the old site when posters discussed team selections and who we could sign more than they did anything else. On the whole it was possitive. There are many posters that are still here, ZippersLeftfoot, Canary Angel et al others have gone.However will you please address the points people say rather than look for some sort of off-topic counter argument. You and Smudger do enjoy the predicament we are in - of that there is no doubt. But what really annoys me about the attitude of you two on here is that you seem to think that we all have to HATE the board and that your opinions are the only correct ones. I bet for the life of me that the pair of you would not dare speak to people face to face the way you do on here - because it is so easy to be harsh, brash and pig headed on an internet forum. Grow up and actually have some respect!

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Saint Canary"][quote user="chicken"]Up until we were promoted and perhaps even half way through that premiership season people seemed to keep their feet well and truly on the ground. We had been told at the begining of the promotion season that we didn''t have much cash. We were told upon promotion that it would allow us to "compete" for a few more seasons without too much to worry about. The premiership was going to be a battle faught on a tight budget with a relatively fresh manager. I don''t see that season as being horrific in anyway - we missed staying up by a very very slim margin, one of the slimmest for a while and we did so on less cash than most.However it all changed as you suggest - expectancy seemed to jump

through the roof and was for the large part unfounded. And it stayed

after relagation.[/quote]Sorry Chicken but I have to take you up on this.  Yes the Premiership was a battle fought for us on a tight budget but it didn''t have to be.  The board of NCFC decided it would a tight budget it wasn''t forced upon them.  We spent a lot of money on Ashton in the January of that season and still managed to make the biggest profit I can remember as a City supporter.  Not for the last time City went through the season with a wait and see, then react attitude (like buying the striker we needed several months too late) rather than being proactive.As for the expenctancy being too high after relegation. well I am dumbfounded by that to be honest.  We had won this very league only 2 years previously, we had only just been relegated from the PL, we just returned a rather large profit, we had parachute payments, we had more season ticket holders than any other club in this league and we had some top quality players.  Was it really too much to expect that we would have been able to compete for the play-offs?  I don''t think so.[/quote]Fair play.The problem is it is debatable how much of that £3million we had at the begining of the season - the sky money came in batches etc. And even then it was clear that one Dean Ashton was not always going to be enough. People say what if - but what if we had had him from the start of the season and he got injured? I am not being defencive but if you compare what we spent that season in comparison to other premiership teams, including those promoted with us, I think you will find we spent less. I believe we spent so little that our squad before Ashton was only worth £4-5million.As for biggest proffit on a player - I would name two others, Bellamy - interestingly also sold during the last ten years and Sutton. Ashton baught for £3 and a bit million sold for £4million more.It could be argued I suppose that maybe my expectations were low but having endured since at least 1990 onwards I would say that after relegation under Chase I became a bit of a realist.The expectation after relegation - I will give you the first season as we had a pretty intact squad but I still think people under-estimated other teams in this league. A Premiership Squad does not always make a great Championship Squad and to add to that most of our players were low end Premiership anyway. The likes of Doherty, Charlton and Safri were not brilliant premiership players - they were cheap and somewhat reliable / safe bets.I guess what I am trying to say is that it was deja vu for me - the writing was on the wall. We were £19million in debt before promotion and mildly better after. Spending money was always limited to helpful donations and money raised by selling players. On top of that when we were relegated under Chase players were sold against their will, players that would have stayed. This time round we could not expect anything of the sort - football is a mercinaries game now. We lost Ashton before his move - he was always angling for one, the same could be said about Earnshaw.Norwich City FC has a big heart but limited backing - simple. Are we a big club - does it matter? Do we deserve more? - As fans who have endured it all and still fill a stadium yes we do deserve more. Is it realistic to expect that we can get more? - That I do not know - but I do not buy that there is some big financial genius waiting to swoop us up should we fall.

[Fromage Frais 10]

I think soon we will see this credit crunch eat into football.I went for many years but at the end of the day I thought why pay all this money to feel crap?  I also worked in a hotel at the time and some of the players would annoy you with their attitude and you felt that why am I paying for this?I do not mind if City are the best team or a bad team as long as they try and play good football and use home grown/local players.It is beyond me how a team of so many loan players can click together let alone with the fans.''Con cantera y aficion, no hace falta importacion''

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="Saint Canary"][quote user="chicken"]

Up until we were promoted and perhaps even half way through that premiership season people seemed to keep their feet well and truly on the ground. We had been told at the begining of the promotion season that we didn''t have much cash. We were told upon promotion that it would allow us to "compete" for a few more seasons without too much to worry about. The premiership was going to be a battle faught on a tight budget with a relatively fresh manager. I don''t see that season as being horrific in anyway - we missed staying up by a very very slim margin, one of the slimmest for a while and we did so on less cash than most.

However it all changed as you suggest - expectancy seemed to jump through the roof and was for the large part unfounded. And it stayed after relagation.
[/quote]

Sorry Chicken but I have to take you up on this.  Yes the Premiership was a battle fought for us on a tight budget but it didn''t have to be.  The board of NCFC decided it would a tight budget it wasn''t forced upon them.  We spent a lot of money on Ashton in the January of that season and still managed to make the biggest profit I can remember as a City supporter.  Not for the last time City went through the season with a wait and see, then react attitude (like buying the striker we needed several months too late) rather than being proactive.

As for the expenctancy being too high after relegation. well I am dumbfounded by that to be honest.  We had won this very league only 2 years previously, we had only just been relegated from the PL, we just returned a rather large profit, we had parachute payments, we had more season ticket holders than any other club in this league and we had some top quality players.  Was it really too much to expect that we would have been able to compete for the play-offs?  I don''t think so.
[/quote]

Following on from your last paragraph, i well remember the club taking weeks persuing one Andy Hughes the season after relegation and the not-particularly-impressed reaction when he signed.  The response from the usual suspects on here was "he`s a squad player, the big signings are still to come"......Then we sold Francis for £2m and (i know it sounds ridiculous now) i honestly thought we`d be in for the likes of Sidwell and Koumas who were both unsettled at the time.  We actually started that season with a central defender and a freebie from Wigan in central midfield and Henderson playing many games on the right wing.  FFS!  Complete, wilful capitulation and if anyone seriously wonders about the negativity that has grown since, try and have a good and unbiased (not that many can manage it) think about the logic of making a £6m transfer profit in a season when you receive a £7.1m parachute payment.

The team was asset-stripped to pay for non-vital off-pitch stuff and we`ve been paying the consequences ever since.

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="chicken"]Fair play.The problem is it is debatable how much of that £3million we had at the begining of the season - the sky money came in batches etc. And even then it was clear that one Dean Ashton was not always going to be enough. People say what if - but what if we had had him from the start of the season and he got injured? I am not being defencive but if you compare what we spent that season in comparison to other premiership teams, including those promoted with us, I think you will find we spent less. I believe we spent so little that our squad before Ashton was only worth £4-5million.[/quote]I will not disagree that before Ashton we spent very little but for me that is the problem this board have had.  Yes we could have bought Ashton or someone else (Crouch springs to mind) in the summer and they could have got injured but at least we could have sat back now and said that the board did all they could but we can''t and they could have done more.[quote user="chicken"]As for biggest proffit on a player - I would name two others, Bellamy - interestingly also sold during the last ten years and Sutton. Ashton baught for £3 and a bit million sold for £4million more.[/quote]I think you misunderstand me.  I was talking about overall club profit, not profit on player sales.[quote user="chicken"]It could be argued I suppose that maybe my expectations were low but having endured since at least 1990 onwards I would say that after relegation under Chase I became a bit of a realist.The expectation after relegation - I will give you the first season as we had a pretty intact squad but I still think people under-estimated other teams in this league. A Premiership Squad does not always make a great Championship Squad and to add to that most of our players were low end Premiership anyway. The likes of Doherty, Charlton and Safri were not brilliant premiership players - they were cheap and somewhat reliable / safe bets.[/quote]I agree with you there that just because someone has played ok in the prem, it does not mean by proxy that they will be top Championship players.

[Mello Yello 2,280]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

What a refreshing thread this is. City fans posting from the heart. I have little to add except to say that I don''t take it out on my club because rightly or wrongly I believe that while our board have made some mistakes most of the problems are caused by football authorities, and specifically the FA, allowing our game to be hijacked by those who only have selfish interests.

[/quote]

It might not only be the FA that have selfish interests.....[:|]

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

What a refreshing thread this is. City fans posting from the heart. I have little to add except to say that I don''t take it out on my club because rightly or wrongly I believe that while our board have made some mistakes most of the problems are caused by football authorities, and specifically the FA, allowing our game to be hijacked by those who only have selfish interests.

[/quote]

It might not only be the FA that have selfish interests.....[:|]

[/quote]If you''re implying that our "board of directionless", to steal your phrase, are selfish, then they''re rubbish at it.  2 million chucked on the fire this season, 3 million next probably too !

[dave538football 0]

Excellent post and sums up the feelings of most supporters. We are a ghost club drifting towards obscurity and we''re just letting it happen. I''ve been watching and supporting Norwich since my first game as a nine year old in 1960. Now there are no players to identify with, there is no manager with character and charisma, and we have a board who are total amateurs, playing with the club and the loyalties of fans. Its time to call it a day; I won''t be renewing my season ticket!

[nottingham nick 0]

Lets face it there are a lot of supporters of other clubs who must feel exactly the same. Living in Nottingham most fans feel same about Forest and even Notts County. I remember trying to get into Meadow Lane (because my wife''s friend who was Man U fan wanted to go and see them). Another person at work is a season ticket holder with Huddersfield who lost to Leyton Orient 1-0 on Tuesday. There are not enough football heroes around these days, yes we had Hucks, Malky, Iwan and many more but it seems to take many clubs years to get back to good times. I first started going to Carrow Road at the end of the Robert Chase era so I missed the Europena nights and early Premiership days.

It is easy to get downhearted but then along comes a game like last Saturday at Forest and we forget about all the poor matches. Its ironic that then we get Tuesday nights home game complete reverse of Saturday.

It may sound very profound but thats what being a football supporter for you !!!!

Nick

[Hard Cell 0]

At last a meaningful thread and good to know there are many more out there that feel like me and the supporters I go to games with.

In 40+ years of going to Carrow Rd and many many away matches it was at a recent game when we scored that I realised I wasn''t jumping up and down, hugging my mates, and climbing onto the back of the seat in front and waving two fingers at the away fans.  I was emotionless.  Just like the snakepit stewards would want us to be.  I''d lost the will to fight.  In fact I too left the ground early as I''ve lost contact with the players and management and board.  They don''t mean anything to me anymore which after so many years is such a shame.  Cut me and I bleed green and yellow but I just can''t be arsed at the moment.  To be honest its not just city its football in general.  Lita and Sibs on £50k+ a week between them for what?  Token efforts when they feel like it and just hide close to their marker the rest of the time like their team-mates.

On paper we have one of the best teams of recent years but of course we play on grass....and (excuse the pun) none of them can cut it at the standard of Championship football required.  Other teams have raised the standard now required to be successful in this league by pringing in or developing big athletic players who will fight for their shirts and show no small amout of skill along the way.  In our side the only player I have any time for (and god knows even he is frustrating) is Hooley.  Championship Player of the Year one minute and out of our squad the next.  We hear he may be a disruptive influence etc but thats what a Manager is very well paid to do...Manage.   He is key to our survival in unlocking defences and looking for that decisive through ball, but like all inspirational players he will have bad games.  Try an arm round the shoulder Mr Rodent like ''appy ''arry instead of being an arrogent "I''m always right" twat.

This Saturday for the first time in living memory not one of our group or associates is travelling.  Last Saturday just a couple went to Forrest while the rest of us went to follow a local non-league club and ended up watching the City game on the box as nobody could be arsed to make the effort for the players, management, and board who couldn''t really give a toss about the supporters.  Doomcasters comment today just make me sick.  Spin, spin, and more spin.  There is no identity between fans and players anymore with Rodents loan system, and even the players we "own" are not good enough for the hero mould.  The more Doomcaster talks about the wonderful fans the more I know the season ticket renew forms must be due soon.

Pre-season was a good time to have a beer and a chat to the players overseas (or in Scotland...) but now I wouldn''t cross the road to relieve myself on a player if he was on fire.  Actually I don''t know if I''d even recognise any of them.  That is unless its the usual crowd (the Doc and Co) out having a few beers and a laugh in Dellaneys after yet another defeat.  Great that they seem so upset...w**kers.

Where are the five players who could play in the Premiership that Rodent promised?  Where are the tall, physically big players that Rodent promised?  Why do we bother with corners as we haven''t had any ariel threat since Malky left.  No height and physical presence, just a bunch of lightweights.  Promises, promises, and like most of you I fell for the spin hook line and sinker.  And before one of the usual no life siacastic moaners and shit stirrers come on here and say "I told you so"..... f**k off! 

Gazza, ffs don''t stop singing even if you get some abuse off whoever the retards are in front of you.  Btw you know me...I was a mate of PMs from a few years back.  Most importantly give it the big''un at the next home game as you lot are nearest to the scum.  This isn''t aimed at people like you because I know how passionate you are about our club, but my heart bleeds when I look over at the Barclay these days and think what it was like for us in the 60''s, 70''s and 80''s.  Having spilt blood, sweat and tears on those terraces along with many I still go to games with (but now mostly retired to the Snakepit) I''m embarrassed when the away supporters taunt the Barclay and don''t get it straight back.  Such is the modern game.  All clubs have suffered in the same way with all seater stadiums (yes, even the old North Stand at Portaloo Road has some affection for us) so its not surprising as the new breed of fan takes over the old "ends".  Shame.  We were discussing last saturday about how it felt to be classed as dinosours by the modern politically correct green & yellow wig wearing sit-down-shut-up don''t swear football world of today.  Drop down a league or two and get back to terracing was the answer......then the beer wore off and reality hit.  Those days are long gone.

Ipshit is the last game I''ll be going to for a while (apart from the long FA Cup run to Wembley) as it doesn''t feel like my club anymore under this regime.  I know supporters from other clubs who feel exactly the same way, hence the 14,000 Birmingham fans who''ve turned out to their home games recently.  Charlton, Palarse (even if they''ve won a couple of games recently), Watford, Southampton, all struggling to half fill their stadiums.  The same will happen here in the next couple of years if the slippery slope continues to the end of this season.  Will PC step in as stated this week if it looks like League 1 football next season?  Could be (more likely just newspaper spin) but an injection of cash alone won''t put the soul back in the club. 

Sing up the Barcl......

 

 

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="No Quarter"]I had one of those "moments" at the game last night. An epiphany if you will.  It got to about 60 mins and we had just scored, and I looked around me, saw everyone leaping about because we scored, and it suddenly occured to me.  This is crap.  I surveyd the area of the Barclay where I once stood with my mates, where I saw us beat Southampton in the FA cup quarter final, where I witnessed Flecky demolish Liverpool, where we had a crowd so loud my ears would ring and then where I''ve then sat and seen us see off Bayern Munich, win League One and countless other landmark moments in my life.  I then done the unthinkable and simply walked out.  For the first time in my life I left a game with 30 mins to go, and after we had just scored.  And it really hurt.  However, I suddenly realised that I don''t recognise Carrow Road, the players in the yellow and green or the supporters around me anymore.  I''m 33 and have been a season ticket holder since I was 4.    At that moment, all I could hear was "sit down please" from an over zealous steward, and the latest "terrace comedian" behind me.  I know people may brand me "fairweather", but that really isn''t the case.  I just feel that I have almost grown out of going to Carrow Road now.  I can''t relate to anybody around me, as a lot of them have only been going 4 or 5 years.  Fine.  For me though I remember my heroes (Fleck, Gunn, Ruel, Disco,Crook, Goss, Bruce, Watson, Newsome , Eadie etc etc etc), and it was these players I loved going to see, and the general atmosphere generated by the crowd.  Now there is no atmosphere or heroes.  I almost felt like Brooks in The Shawshank Redemption when he is released from prison, and see''s the state of the modern world.  Sorry to be a bit morbid, but thats just how I feel.[/quote]

This post should be a worrying sign for Norwich.

When supporters go beyond being angry to the "not giving a s##t" stage the club is in serious trouble.

The supporters have been nothing but maginificent.

24,000 mid week at the bottom of the champs when Portsmouth cant get 20,000 against AC Milan.

From reading between the lines Peter Cullum is still interested but it looks like he is waiting us to fail before he can come in and take control of the club for next to nothing.

Unfortunately he may get the club cheaply but the faith of its most important asset (the supporters) may have been lost.

As many clubs have found its hard to win back even if you are successful.

Birmingham could only get 15,000 the other night while in a promotion race at the top.

 

 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="Rupethebear"]

[quote user="No Quarter"]I had one of those "moments" at the game last night. An epiphany if you will.  It got to about 60 mins and we had just scored, and I looked around me, saw everyone leaping about because we scored, and it suddenly occured to me.  This is crap.  I surveyd the area of the Barclay where I once stood with my mates, where I saw us beat Southampton in the FA cup quarter final, where I witnessed Flecky demolish Liverpool, where we had a crowd so loud my ears would ring and then where I''ve then sat and seen us see off Bayern Munich, win League One and countless other landmark moments in my life.  I then done the unthinkable and simply walked out.  For the first time in my life I left a game with 30 mins to go, and after we had just scored.  And it really hurt.  However, I suddenly realised that I don''t recognise Carrow Road, the players in the yellow and green or the supporters around me anymore.  I''m 33 and have been a season ticket holder since I was 4.    At that moment, all I could hear was "sit down please" from an over zealous steward, and the latest "terrace comedian" behind me.  I know people may brand me "fairweather", but that really isn''t the case.  I just feel that I have almost grown out of going to Carrow Road now.  I can''t relate to anybody around me, as a lot of them have only been going 4 or 5 years.  Fine.  For me though I remember my heroes (Fleck, Gunn, Ruel, Disco,Crook, Goss, Bruce, Watson, Newsome , Eadie etc etc etc), and it was these players I loved going to see, and the general atmosphere generated by the crowd.  Now there is no atmosphere or heroes.  I almost felt like Brooks in The Shawshank Redemption when he is released from prison, and see''s the state of the modern world.  Sorry to be a bit morbid, but thats just how I feel.[/quote]

 

Great post!

Been going to Carrow Road since 1973 and always had heroes like Kevin Keelan and Phil Boyer etc etc. Now there are none, my boy is 7 and his hero is still Hucks cos none of the current team are good enough, let''s face it how often do we see Premier League scouts at Carrow Road? We don''t have the money to buy any heroes any more so we will have to wait until we produce the next one but sadly our conveyor belt has broken and we don''t seem to have any more Bellamy''s or Greens so I guess we will have to be patient......wonder what will happen first, end of the credit crunch or the Norwich revival??

[/quote]completely sympathise, but we can''t always be getting better! i''m sure in 20 yrs, at least 2 of Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal willl be struggling in comparison to the ''big 4'' now and i''m sure we''ll be in the top 2 leagues still. we''re maybe due some'' Boltonesque'' unnatural success years, but they''re not always gonna happen as there''s a big queue, let''s be patient as long as we''re in the top 2 leagues and savour anything better. I''m sad to say, our benchmark has lowered now and some people need to stop living in dreamland for the moment!

[Tetteys Jig 830]

jus to annoy u, it''s well known, Wigan fancy Lupoli n r watching him to replace Zaki or Heskey! shame he can''t do a job 4 us...!