THE VALUE OF YOUTH

[FramCanary 0]

A note to the first set of Accounts published by the Club after the departure of Robert Chase, stated that the club had supported Manager Mike Walker in rejecting offers for two of its players (thought to be Eadie and O`Neill) totalling almost £10m. A very brave (perhaps reckless) decision, which in hindsight proved financially disasterous. These players subsequently brought just £3.7m into the Club''s coffers.

The new board had inherited other contracted players worth substantial sums, including Marshall  Mills  Johnson  Cureton  Akinbiyi  Bellamy etc, but continued to get it wrong by either not recognising their associated playing ability, or selling for fees significantly below potential value - Bellamy excepted.

For example:

Mills left for Charlton Athletic where he was an outstanding performer, & 15 months later earned a £4.1m transfer to Leeds Utd. He went on to win 19 England caps during a very successful Premiership career.

Akinbiyi  has been sold for fees totalling almost £16m. After being told by our Club that he was''nt good enough, he earned a £1.2m transfer from Gillingham (having impressed with 28 goals in just 63 games) to Bristol City. He then went on to score 21 goals in 47 games prior to a £3.5m transfer to Wolves.

Johnson was sold in 1997 to Nottingham Forest for £2.2m. An asking price had been set at £2.5m. Having accepted an offer from Forest, the Club were embarrassed when both Crystal Palace & Leicester City confirmed making bids equal to our £2.5m asking price a day or so later. However, having signed a ''pre-contract'' agreement with Forest, there was no going back & no hope of a bidding war developing.

Unfortunately, our Manager & his employers were unaware of the potential that these (& other) players had, and consequently missed out on utilising their ability within our team, let alone receiving substantially more in transfer funds. Millions of pounds which would have assisted us greatly over the past years of the ''Smith'' era.

All of this talent (inherited from the previous regime) had eminated from our very own highly successful youth production line.

What irritates me is that the likes of Sutton  Eadie  Belamy  O''Neill  Gordon  Mills  Akinbiyi  Johnson etc, came through and were playing regular first team football at the age of 17/18/19. Three of these mentioned came from within a small radius from the club. Over the past decade, very few players have come through the system to become first team regulars & perhaps go on to provide the club with a significant transfer fee income. The Club has developed youngsters, but has rarely been able or inclined to involve them in the first team. For example, we currently have the likes of Martin (just turned 20), Eagle (22 in February), Spillane (19), Daley (just turned 19), Renton (18) etc.. deemed either not good/old enough!

The Owners, their board of directors & managers continue to make mistakes both with financial mis-management & with their management of players. However, their time is running out. The sooner we start a new chapter in the history of our club, the better. It will take a lot of mending though!

We could do with a billionnaire city fan coming to our rescue!.

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="FramCanary"]

A note to the first set of Accounts published by the Club after the departure of Robert Chase, stated that the club had supported Manager Mike Walker in rejecting offers for two of its players (thought to be Eadie and O`Neill) totalling almost £10m. A very brave (perhaps reckless) decision, which in hindsight proved financially disasterous. These players subsequently brought just £3.7m into the Club''s coffers.

The new board had inherited other contracted players worth substantial sums, including Marshall  Mills  Johnson  Cureton  Akinbiyi  Bellamy etc, but continued to get it wrong by either not recognising their associated playing ability, or selling for fees significantly below potential value - Bellamy excepted.

For example:

Mills left for Charlton Athletic where he was an outstanding performer, & 15 months later earned a £4.1m transfer to Leeds Utd. He went on to win 19 England caps during a very successful Premiership career.

Akinbiyi  has been sold for fees totalling almost £16m. After being told by our Club that he was''nt good enough, he earned a £1.2m transfer from Gillingham (having impressed with 28 goals in just 63 games) to Bristol City. He then went on to score 21 goals in 47 games prior to a £3.5m transfer to Wolves.

Johnson was sold in 1997 to Nottingham Forest for £2.2m. An asking price had been set at £2.5m. Having accepted an offer from Forest, the Club were embarrassed when both Crystal Palace & Leicester City confirmed making bids equal to our £2.5m asking price a day or so later. However, having signed a ''pre-contract'' agreement with Forest, there was no going back & no hope of a bidding war developing.

Unfortunately, our Manager & his employers were unaware of the potential that these (& other) players had, and consequently missed out on utilising their ability within our team, let alone receiving substantially more in transfer funds. Millions of pounds which would have assisted us greatly over the past years of the ''Smith'' era.

All of this talent (inherited from the previous regime) had eminated from our very own highly successful youth production line.

What irritates me is that the likes of Sutton  Eadie  Belamy  O''Neill  Gordon  Mills  Akinbiyi  Johnson etc, came through and were playing regular first team football at the age of 17/18/19. Three of these mentioned came from within a small radius from the club. Over the past decade, very few players have come through the system to become first team regulars & perhaps go on to provide the club with a significant transfer fee income. The Club has developed youngsters, but has rarely been able or inclined to involve them in the first team. For example, we currently have the likes of Martin (just turned 20), Eagle (22 in February), Spillane (19), Daley (just turned 19), Renton (18) etc.. deemed either not good/old enough!

The Owners, their board of directors & managers continue to make mistakes both with financial mis-management & with their management of players. However, their time is running out. The sooner we start a new chapter in the history of our club, the better. It will take a lot of mending though!

We could do with a billionnaire city fan coming to our rescue!.

 

[/quote]

Just one name Gordon Bennet. Bad mistake letting him go as well.

[Taxing 0]

[quote user="FramCanary"]

A note to the first set of Accounts published by the Club after the departure of Robert Chase, stated that the club had supported Manager Mike Walker in rejecting offers for two of its players (thought to be Eadie and O`Neill) totalling almost £10m. A very brave (perhaps reckless) decision, which in hindsight proved financially disasterous. These players subsequently brought just £3.7m into the Club''s coffers.

The new board had inherited other contracted players worth substantial sums, including Marshall  Mills  Johnson  Cureton  Akinbiyi  Bellamy etc, but continued to get it wrong by either not recognising their associated playing ability, or selling for fees significantly below potential value - Bellamy excepted.

For example:

Mills left for Charlton Athletic where he was an outstanding performer, & 15 months later earned a £4.1m transfer to Leeds Utd. He went on to win 19 England caps during a very successful Premiership career.

Akinbiyi  has been sold for fees totalling almost £16m. After being told by our Club that he was''nt good enough, he earned a £1.2m transfer from Gillingham (having impressed with 28 goals in just 63 games) to Bristol City. He then went on to score 21 goals in 47 games prior to a £3.5m transfer to Wolves.

Johnson was sold in 1997 to Nottingham Forest for £2.2m. An asking price had been set at £2.5m. Having accepted an offer from Forest, the Club were embarrassed when both Crystal Palace & Leicester City confirmed making bids equal to our £2.5m asking price a day or so later. However, having signed a ''pre-contract'' agreement with Forest, there was no going back & no hope of a bidding war developing.

Unfortunately, our Manager & his employers were unaware of the potential that these (& other) players had, and consequently missed out on utilising their ability within our team, let alone receiving substantially more in transfer funds. Millions of pounds which would have assisted us greatly over the past years of the ''Smith'' era.

All of this talent (inherited from the previous regime) had eminated from our very own highly successful youth production line.

What irritates me is that the likes of Sutton  Eadie  Belamy  O''Neill  Gordon  Mills  Akinbiyi  Johnson etc, came through and were playing regular first team football at the age of 17/18/19. Three of these mentioned came from within a small radius from the club. Over the past decade, very few players have come through the system to become first team regulars & perhaps go on to provide the club with a significant transfer fee income. The Club has developed youngsters, but has rarely been able or inclined to involve them in the first team. For example, we currently have the likes of Martin (just turned 20), Eagle (22 in February), Spillane (19), Daley (just turned 19), Renton (18) etc.. deemed either not good/old enough!

The Owners, their board of directors & managers continue to make mistakes both with financial mis-management & with their management of players. However, their time is running out. The sooner we start a new chapter in the history of our club, the better. It will take a lot of mending though!

We could do with a billionnaire city fan coming to our rescue!.

 

[/quote]

 

Very good post, enjoyed reading it. By contrast with the players whose ability the club has underestimated I have been irritated by the club''s retention of players despite not giving them a run in the 1st team to establish once and for all how good they really are. Ryan Jarvis was always being touted as being potentially a top player but we were told he was too young. He got older and older and then finally, without really being given a chance, shipped out to Leyton orient or wherever. To be honest I don''t even know if he''s moved permanently or out on loan. His brother is another example and, for that matter, Spillane too. What does seem clear from your post is that the young players that were coming through in the 90''s were greater in terms of both quantity and quality than in recent years.

[Paul Spector 0]

Chris Llewellyn also maybe? Rumoured to have been subject of a pretty hefty bid at one time, but he held on to him!

[Joanna Grey 0]

Isn''t hindsight a wonderful thing?

[Mr.Carrow 394]

I think most posters know i am far from being a supporter of the board, but to be fair, after the Chase upheaval people were sick of the club being touted as a "nursery for the big clubs" and when Delia et al took over, turning down big bids for players was like a breath of fresh air and helped bring about the "togetherness" everyone spoke of.  Not flogging O`Niel earlier was a big mistake in hindsight (mainly down to his constant injuries) but with Eadie at least the fans got a couple more seasons of the second most exciting player to wear a City shirt in several decades.

At some point the board must have made a strategic decision that investment in fixed assets comes first and the team has had to take a back seat ever since.

[Tumbleweed 106]

I also remember that most of these players took a while to genuinely make an impression in the first team. Nowadays if they don''t have an instant impact they seem to get discarded. Jarvis seemed to spend years on the fringes getting the odd game here or there- some of these guys need an extended run and surely would be no worse than others we have on loan. The other distinction I see is that back then the general team was in better shape- i.e. that the "star" players were very good indeed and there was more scope to indulge in youth in one or two positions. Nowadays the overall standard of the team is lower and it is more difficult to carry or blood a youngster. However what I fail to understand is why GR does seem happy to pay wages for loanees who hardly get in our team and are of a similar age to those we already have, I know Renton suffered a bad injury but I think he played against Arsenal reserves the other day so why not stick him on the bench for the first team? He already has had a few games before that injury and looked pretty sharp in the bits that I saw of him.

[William Darby 0]

This argument has been done before, whether or not there''s ways around it.  Today we have a 1 1/2 hours travel rule or something like that.  We didn''t then,  if Bellers, O''Neil etc etc were about now. we wouldn''t get them regardless of how good our scouts are.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

I must admit I would much rather see someone like Luke Daley getting a run in the side than a loanee.  Same with Mickey Spillane and Tom Adeyemi.  If they are good enough they are old enough, we need to get them blooded early.

I think that is the main difference with the game today compared to how it used to be.  Back in the day young players were making debuts as teenagers, almost every team had 1 or 2 18/19 year olds either starting or on the bench.  Nowadays it seems like they have to get to 21/22 before they are deemed worthy of a chance. 

[ca 1]

I agree and also would rather see Daley on the bench rather than Lupoli or OJ if presumeably Sibbi & Lita are starting.

[FramCanary 0]

[quote user="Thirst Wizard"]This argument has been done before, whether or not there''s ways around it.  Today we have a 1 1/2 hours travel rule or something like that.  We didn''t then,  if Bellers, O''Neil etc etc were about now. we wouldn''t get them regardless of how good our scouts are.
[/quote]

So you are of the opinion that players from within a small radius of the club - such as: Sutton  Fox  Goss  Mills  Mendham  Fashanu''s  Gordon  Sutch....... don''t exist any more?.

These players were brought through the youth system during a 20 period prior to the ''Smith era''. How many have their been during her reign?.

[FramCanary 0]

[quote user="Carlos Valderrama"]

I must admit I would much rather see someone like Luke Daley getting a run in the side than a loanee.  Same with Mickey Spillane and Tom Adeyemi.  If they are good enough they are old enough, we need to get them blooded early.

I think that is the main difference with the game today compared to how it used to be.  Back in the day young players were making debuts as teenagers, almost every team had 1 or 2 18/19 year olds either starting or on the bench.  Nowadays it seems like they have to get to 21/22 before they are deemed worthy of a chance. 

[/quote]

Can''t agree with this - Wayne Rooney, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Micah Richards, Stuart Downing, Theo Walcott, Ashley Young, Darren Bent, Peter Crouch.........  -  All current England International who were playing regular 1st team football in their late teens!.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="FramCanary"]

[quote user="Thirst Wizard"]This argument has been done before, whether or not there''s ways around it.  Today we have a 1 1/2 hours travel rule or something like that.  We didn''t then,  if Bellers, O''Neil etc etc were about now. we wouldn''t get them regardless of how good our scouts are. [/quote]

So you are of the opinion that players from within a small radius of the club - such as: Sutton  Fox  Goss  Mills  Mendham  Fashanu''s  Gordon  Sutch....... don''t exist any more?.

These players were brought through the youth system during a 20 period prior to the ''Smith era''. How many have their been during her reign?.

[/quote]8 players in twenty years. Now name a list of good players we''ve missed out on. 

[FramCanary 0]

[quote user="Thirst Wizard"][quote user="FramCanary"]

[quote user="Thirst Wizard"]This argument has been done before, whether or not there''s ways around it.  Today we have a 1 1/2 hours travel rule or something like that.  We didn''t then,  if Bellers, O''Neil etc etc were about now. we wouldn''t get them regardless of how good our scouts are.
[/quote]

So you are of the opinion that players from within a small radius of the club - such as: Sutton  Fox  Goss  Mills  Mendham  Fashanu''s  Gordon  Sutch....... don''t exist any more?.

These players were brought through the youth system during a 20 period prior to the ''Smith era''. How many have their been during her reign?.

[/quote]

8 players in twenty years.

Now name a list of good players we''ve missed out on. 

[/quote]

? in the past 12!. Read my post again, as you are missing the point.

 

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="FramCanary"][quote user="Thirst Wizard"][quote user="FramCanary"]

[quote user="Thirst Wizard"]This argument has been done before, whether or not there''s ways around it.  Today we have a 1 1/2 hours travel rule or something like that.  We didn''t then,  if Bellers, O''Neil etc etc were about now. we wouldn''t get them regardless of how good our scouts are. [/quote]

So you are of the opinion that players from within a small radius of the club - such as: Sutton  Fox  Goss  Mills  Mendham  Fashanu''s  Gordon  Sutch....... don''t exist any more?.

These players were brought through the youth system during a 20 period prior to the ''Smith era''. How many have their been during her reign?.

[/quote]8 players in twenty years. Now name a list of good players we''ve missed out on.  [/quote]

? in the past 12!. Read my post again, as you are missing the point.

 

[/quote]Ok, No they don''t exist

[FramCanary 0]

[quote user="Thirst Wizard"][quote user="FramCanary"][quote user="Thirst Wizard"][quote user="FramCanary"]

[quote user="Thirst Wizard"]This argument has been done before, whether or not there''s ways around it.  Today we have a 1 1/2 hours travel rule or something like that.  We didn''t then,  if Bellers, O''Neil etc etc were about now. we wouldn''t get them regardless of how good our scouts are.
[/quote]

So you are of the opinion that players from within a small radius of the club - such as: Sutton  Fox  Goss  Mills  Mendham  Fashanu''s  Gordon  Sutch....... don''t exist any more?.

These players were brought through the youth system during a 20 period prior to the ''Smith era''. How many have their been during her reign?.

[/quote]

8 players in twenty years.

Now name a list of good players we''ve missed out on. 

[/quote]

? in the past 12!. Read my post again, as you are missing the point.

 

[/quote]

Ok, No they don''t exist
[/quote]

Ok, by comparison - take a look at the 1st team squad from down the A140:

Currently, their squad includes 8 players produced via their youth system during the same time span as that of Smith''s ''ownership'' of our club:

Supple  Ambrose  Haynes  Garven  Casement  Trotter  Wright  Naylor.

In addition, they brought Darren Bent through. After 111 league & cup starts (& 53 goals) he went to Charlton for a £2.5m fee, with the club receiving a further £2.58m upon his transfer to Spurs.

My initial point is that this is a further example of underachievement by Smith''s board.

[Joanna Grey 0]

Underachievement? The prime example of underachievement in your initial post was Ade Akinbiyi; 3 years, 51 appearances, 3 goals - lots of "potential" there. And what about O''Neill? He was valued at £4m during his purple patch, if we had sold him during that very small window it would have been the deal of the century. Eadie? £6m? Worth it obviously, but there would have been lynching parties in the street if he been sold. And perhaps someone else can help out but I can''t remember Danny Mills having an International quality game for us.

As I said before, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[FramCanary 0]

[quote user="Delia S. Tickers"]

Underachievement? The prime example of underachievement in your initial post was Ade Akinbiyi; 3 years, 51 appearances, 3 goals - lots of "potential" there. And what about O''Neill? He was valued at £4m during his purple patch, if we had sold him during that very small window it would have been the deal of the century. Eadie? £6m? Worth it obviously, but there would have been lynching parties in the street if he been sold. And perhaps someone else can help out but I can''t remember Danny Mills having an International quality game for us.

As I said before, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[/quote]

Both Mills & Akinbiyi (now on 151 league & cup goals) have enjoyed very successful career''s after a Norwich City manager deemed them not good enough. Both Eadie & O''Neill could & perhaps should have been sold, for a combined sum which was over £3m more than the inherited debt. Policies adopted by the new regime have proved disasterous - so hindsight has proven.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="FramCanary"]

Akinbiyi  has been sold for fees totalling almost £16m. After being told by our Club that he was''nt good enough, he earned a £1.2m transfer from Gillingham (having impressed with 28 goals in just 63 games) to Bristol City. He then went on to score 21 goals in 47 games prior to a £3.5m transfer to Wolves.

[/quote]

another point... 4-4-2 Magazine did an interview with AKinbiyi not too long ago, he has the best strike rate of any striker outside the premiership up to the end of last Season.... Does this smack of the record of a bad striker or just a striker who made some comical misses?

the right manager could of made Akinbiyi a star for us im convinced....

jas :)

[FramCanary 0]

Ultimately, the ''Smith'' era will be remembered by most as a period of financial disaster & (apart from 03/04) underachievement on the field of play. It has also been a period where we may as well have not incurred the expense of running a youth policy. End of.

[William Darby 0]

Chris Casement born BelfastRichard  Naylor born LeedsOwen Garvan born Dublin

Shane Supple born Ireland

A couple of their other locals are on loan,  and Richard Wright is a local goalie,  which is something that we have in common (local goalies)The four above aren''t local but have been brought to the club somehow when young,  either Town''s scouts can spot potential and are prepared to pay money for unproven youngsters, I dunno.  Maybe that''s what we need to do. 

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="FramCanary"][quote user="Delia S. Tickers"]

Underachievement? The prime example of underachievement in your initial post was Ade Akinbiyi; 3 years, 51 appearances, 3 goals - lots of "potential" there. And what about O''Neill? He was valued at £4m during his purple patch, if we had sold him during that very small window it would have been the deal of the century. Eadie? £6m? Worth it obviously, but there would have been lynching parties in the street if he been sold. And perhaps someone else can help out but I can''t remember Danny Mills having an International quality game for us.

As I said before, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[/quote]

Both Mills & Akinbiyi (now on 151 league & cup goals) have enjoyed very successful career''s after a Norwich City manager deemed them not good enough. Both Eadie & O''Neill could & perhaps should have been sold, for a combined sum which was over £3m more than the inherited debt. Policies adopted by the new regime have proved disasterous - so hindsight has proven.

[/quote]

Well Mills and Akinbiyi were both sold by Mike Walker I believe. I would presume that getting sold by us gave them the kick up the pants they needed. If we had sold either Eadie or O''Neill then we would have had no left winger, remember that when one was playing the other one was keeping Tim Sheppard company. There are too mnay "ifs" and "buts" in your arguments I''m afraid. I suppose you had to be there at the time to understand.....

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

another point... 4-4-2 Magazine did an interview with AKinbiyi not too long ago, he has the best strike rate of any striker outside the premiership up to the end of last Season.... Does this smack of the record of a bad striker or just a striker who made some comical misses?

the right manager could of made Akinbiyi a star for us im convinced....

jas :)

[/quote]

Well jas, take your pick out of Walker (twice), Deehan, O''Neill and Megson. None of those managed to release that Star Quality.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="FramCanary"]Ultimately, the ''Smith'' era will be remembered by most as a period of financial disaster & (apart from 03/04) underachievement on the field of play. It has also been a period where we may as well have not incurred the expense of running a youth policy. End of.[/quote]

And there you have, 24 hours later the truth behind the reason for the opening post. A few facts and unrelated assumptions cobbled together in order to discredit the current board. Sorry to put a spoke in your wheel Fram but the appointment of Mike Walker2 happened before the Smith era and although by the start of the 96/97 season Smith&Jones were on the board it was still very much an interim board with Lockwood still Chairman and Martin Armstrong still very much the spokesman for majority shareholder Geoffrey Watling. The sales of Akinbiyi, Johnson, Cureton and Mills all happened under that interim board. I don''t think Walker2 ever played Cureton while Johnson and Mills both had disciplinary problems under Walker and both put in transfer requests. In the case of Johnson I seem to remember the request went to a local radio station rather than the club.

Thirst Wizard is right about the 90 minute travelling time law and he is also right about  how many local players come good. As Roeder said Norfolk does not have a history of producing great footballers. If it was just a case of us missing out on them they would surface somewhere else.  And while we can rightly be proud of Sutton, Fox, Gordon they are the exception rather than the rule.

All clubs miss out on players who are later sold on for millions. There are many reasons for this. The one that always springs to mind with me is Dion Dublin. Dave Stringer and Big Bob didn''t see the potential there when they shipped him out to Kings Lynn did they Fram? But these things happen I''m afraid.

 

[DEB (never forgotten) 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="FramCanary"]Ultimately, the ''Smith'' era will be remembered by most as a period of financial disaster & (apart from 03/04) underachievement on the field of play. It has also been a period where we may as well have not incurred the expense of running a youth policy. End of.[/quote]

And there you have, 24 hours later the truth behind the reason for the opening post. A few facts and unrelated assumptions cobbled together in order to discredit the current board. Sorry to put a spoke in your wheel Fram but the appointment of Mike Walker2 happened before the Smith era and although by the start of the 96/97 season Smith&Jones were on the board it was still very much an interim board with Lockwood still Chairman and Martin Armstrong still very much the spokesman for majority shareholder Geoffrey Watling. The sales of Akinbiyi, Johnson, Cureton and Mills all happened under that interim board. I don''t think Walker2 ever played Cureton while Johnson and Mills both had disciplinary problems under Walker and both put in transfer requests. In the case of Johnson I seem to remember the request went to a local radio station rather than the club.

Thirst Wizard is right about the 90 minute travelling time law and he is also right about  how many local players come good. As Roeder said Norfolk does not have a history of producing great footballers. If it was just a case of us missing out on them they would surface somewhere else.  And while we can rightly be proud of Sutton, Fox, Gordon they are the exception rather than the rule.

All clubs miss out on players who are later sold on for millions. There are many reasons for this. The one that always springs to mind with me is Dion Dublin. Dave Stringer and Big Bob didn''t see the potential there when they shipped him out to Kings Lynn did they Fram? But these things happen I''m afraid.

 

[/quote]

You indicate that Fram''s excellent initial post & further comment is based on fact & unrelated assumption - please get your facts straight before posting such drivel.

Walker returned as manager in June 1996. Smith & Jones bought Watling''s 42% shareholding in December 1997 & in March 1998 Danny Mills was sold. Walker had previously (& outrageously) stated during questioning at the AGM that Mills was a player who ''had no positional sense and was incapable of passing the ball'' (this was witnessed by my father who was in attendance). Although Walker motivated his inherited squad of players & achieved a 3rd place finish in the top tier, history has proven that he was totally incapable of building a successful side of his own. Here is a clue as to why!

Cureton was sold in October 1996, after being unable to convince Walker that he was worth retaining. He immediately realised his goal scoring potential with 68 league goals in 161 starts at Rovers, prior to further improvement in his ratio with 50 goals in 74 league starts at Reading.

I''m sorry, but Fram''s post hits the nail on the head.

[DEB (never forgotten) 0]

[quote user="Delia S. Tickers"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

another point... 4-4-2 Magazine did an interview with AKinbiyi not too long ago, he has the best strike rate of any striker outside the premiership up to the end of last Season.... Does this smack of the record of a bad striker or just a striker who made some comical misses?

the right manager could of made Akinbiyi a star for us im convinced....

jas :)

[/quote]

Well jas, take your pick out of Walker (twice), Deehan, O''Neill and Megson. None of those managed to release that Star Quality.

[/quote]

To me, this says more about the managers listed than it does the player. As Jas indicates, his record is outstanding. Akinbiyi''s managers have put faith in his ability, improved him & he rewarded with over 150 goals to date!

[O.T.B.C 1]

 

You indicate that Fram''s excellent initial post & further comment is based on fact & unrelated assumption - please get your facts straight before posting such drivel.

Walker returned as manager in June 1996. Smith & Jones bought Watling''s 42% shareholding in December 1997 & in March 1998 Danny Mills was sold. Walker had previously (& outrageously) stated during questioning at the AGM that Mills was a player who ''had no positional sense and was incapable of passing the ball'' (this was witnessed by my father who was in attendance). Although Walker motivated his inherited squad of players & achieved a 3rd place finish in the top tier, history has proven that he was totally incapable of building a successful side of his own. Here is a clue as to why!

Cureton was sold in October 1996, after being unable to convince Walker that he was worth retaining. He immediately realised his goal scoring potential with 68 league goals in 161 starts at Rovers, prior to further improvement in his ratio with 50 goals in 74 league starts at Reading.

I''m sorry, but Fram''s post hits the nail on the head.

 

Curo did realise his goals scoring potential as you say, mainly in the LOWER leagues, he has scored more than 10 in 2 maybe 3 seasons in this league and certainly nothing higher. There are lots and lots of clubs out there that have players and let them go, quite simply the limit of 90 minutes is not going to produce many decent players in Norfolk, scum can rely on a lot of the london boys, mainly cast offs from the big boys but never the less a lot of decent players. You look at forest and their famed acedemy of Reid, Jenas Dawson brothers came from Leeds when youth coach Paul Hart came over, regardless what is written.

[Delia Out! 0]

[quote user="Canaries in Bed"]

 

You indicate that Fram''s excellent initial post & further comment is based on fact & unrelated assumption - please get your facts straight before posting such drivel.

Walker returned as manager in June 1996. Smith & Jones bought Watling''s 42% shareholding in December 1997 & in March 1998 Danny Mills was sold. Walker had previously (& outrageously) stated during questioning at the AGM that Mills was a player who ''had no positional sense and was incapable of passing the ball'' (this was witnessed by my father who was in attendance). Although Walker motivated his inherited squad of players & achieved a 3rd place finish in the top tier, history has proven that he was totally incapable of building a successful side of his own. Here is a clue as to why!

Cureton was sold in October 1996, after being unable to convince Walker that he was worth retaining. He immediately realised his goal scoring potential with 68 league goals in 161 starts at Rovers, prior to further improvement in his ratio with 50 goals in 74 league starts at Reading.

I''m sorry, but Fram''s post hits the nail on the head.

 

Curo did realise his goals scoring potential as you say, mainly in the LOWER leagues, he has scored more than 10 in 2 maybe 3 seasons in this league and certainly nothing higher. There are lots and lots of clubs out there that have players and let them go, quite simply the limit of 90 minutes is not going to produce many decent players in Norfolk, scum can rely on a lot of the london boys, mainly cast offs from the big boys but never the less a lot of decent players. You look at forest and their famed acedemy of Reid, Jenas Dawson brothers came from Leeds when youth coach Paul Hart came over, regardless what is written.

[/quote]

You talk about Cureton & lower leagues! - we have spent 11 of Smith''s 12 years outside top-flight football, often looking over our shoulders at league one & in desperate need of a regular goal scorer. Cureton scored 194 league & cup goals in 415 starts after walker decided he wasn''t good enough!

[Delia Out! 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="FramCanary"]Ultimately, the ''Smith'' era will be remembered by most as a period of financial disaster & (apart from 03/04) underachievement on the field of play. It has also been a period where we may as well have not incurred the expense of running a youth policy. End of.[/quote]

And there you have, 24 hours later the truth behind the reason for the opening post. A few facts and unrelated assumptions cobbled together in order to discredit the current board. Sorry to put a spoke in your wheel Fram but the appointment of Mike Walker2 happened before the Smith era and although by the start of the 96/97 season Smith&Jones were on the board it was still very much an interim board with Lockwood still Chairman and Martin Armstrong still very much the spokesman for majority shareholder Geoffrey Watling. The sales of Akinbiyi, Johnson, Cureton and Mills all happened under that interim board. I don''t think Walker2 ever played Cureton while Johnson and Mills both had disciplinary problems under Walker and both put in transfer requests. In the case of Johnson I seem to remember the request went to a local radio station rather than the club.

Thirst Wizard is right about the 90 minute travelling time law and he is also right about  how many local players come good. As Roeder said Norfolk does not have a history of producing great footballers. If it was just a case of us missing out on them they would surface somewhere else.  And while we can rightly be proud of Sutton, Fox, Gordon they are the exception rather than the rule.

All clubs miss out on players who are later sold on for millions. There are many reasons for this. The one that always springs to mind with me is Dion Dublin. Dave Stringer and Big Bob didn''t see the potential there when they shipped him out to Kings Lynn did they Fram? But these things happen I''m afraid.

 

[/quote]

Hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They ran out of credit a decade ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[O.T.B.C 1]

[quote user="Matt H"][quote user="Canaries in Bed"]

 

You indicate that Fram''s excellent initial post & further comment is based on fact & unrelated assumption - please get your facts straight before posting such drivel.

Walker returned as manager in June 1996. Smith & Jones bought Watling''s 42% shareholding in December 1997 & in March 1998 Danny Mills was sold. Walker had previously (& outrageously) stated during questioning at the AGM that Mills was a player who ''had no positional sense and was incapable of passing the ball'' (this was witnessed by my father who was in attendance). Although Walker motivated his inherited squad of players & achieved a 3rd place finish in the top tier, history has proven that he was totally incapable of building a successful side of his own. Here is a clue as to why!

Cureton was sold in October 1996, after being unable to convince Walker that he was worth retaining. He immediately realised his goal scoring potential with 68 league goals in 161 starts at Rovers, prior to further improvement in his ratio with 50 goals in 74 league starts at Reading.

I''m sorry, but Fram''s post hits the nail on the head.

 

Curo did realise his goals scoring potential as you say, mainly in the LOWER leagues, he has scored more than 10 in 2 maybe 3 seasons in this league and certainly nothing higher. There are lots and lots of clubs out there that have players and let them go, quite simply the limit of 90 minutes is not going to produce many decent players in Norfolk, scum can rely on a lot of the london boys, mainly cast offs from the big boys but never the less a lot of decent players. You look at forest and their famed acedemy of Reid, Jenas Dawson brothers came from Leeds when youth coach Paul Hart came over, regardless what is written.

[/quote]

You talk about Cureton & lower leagues! - we have spent 11 of Smith''s 12 years outside top-flight football, often looking over our shoulders at league one & in desperate need of a regular goal scorer. Cureton scored 194 league & cup goals in 415 starts after walker decided he wasn''t good enough!

[/quote]

Yes he did, but then I scored 100 in 29 when I was a kid. He has scored a few in a few seasons in the 2nd flight.

Look.

Club	From	To	Fee	League		FA Cup		League cup		Other
Norwich	29-06-2007		Free	32 (23)	12	2 (0)	0	2 (1)	2	0 (0)	0
Colchester	06-06-2006	29-06-2007	Free	44 (0)	23	1 (0)	1	0 (1)	0	0 (0)	0
Colchester	21-10-2005	03-01-2006	Loan	7 (1)	4	2 (0)	3	0 (0)	0	0 (0)	0
Swindon	30-06-2005	06-06-2006	Free	22 (8)	7	0 (0)	0	0 (1)	0	0 (1)	0
QPR	02-02-2004	30-06-2005	Signed	20 (23)	6	1 (0)	0	2 (0)	1	0 (0)	0
Pusan I.cons	05-07-2003	02-02-2004	Free	No appearance data available
Reading	21-08-2000	05-07-2003	£ 250000	74 (34)	50	5 (2)	2	4 (1)	1	6 (1)	2
Bristol R	17-10-1996	21-08-2000	£ 200000	161 (9)	68	10 (0)	2	7 (1)	2	6 (0)	2
Bristol R	19-09-1996	16-10-1996	Loan	6 (0)	4	0 (0)	0	0 (0)	0	0 (0)	0
Bournemouth	08-09-1995		Loan	0 (5)	0	0 (0)	0	0 (0)	0	0 (1)	0
Norwich	05-02-1993	17-10-1996	Trainee	13 (16)	6	0 (2)	0	0 (1)	0	0 (0)	0
Totals			£ 450000	379 (119)	180	21 (4)	8	15 (6)	6	12 (3)	4
			goals / game	0.36		0.32		0.28		0.26
				Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals