Good defenders, rubbish defence - how come!?

[a1canary 0]

This is so typical of us. We finally have some personnel that should add up to a great defence, yet we''re still shipping goals badly. What''s all that about? I hear some had Kennedy down as MoM v Derby and most liked what they had seen of him prior to his injury. Stefanovic really seems to divide opinion but i don''t think anyone denies he has composure on the ball and reads the game - two things we had absolutely nothing of last year. The Doc has responded well to the competition and suits both Kennedy and Stefanovic as a CB partner much better than he did Shackell. Maybe we should try Doc and JK.

Meanwhile Roeder reckons we have the best full backs in the league. I don''t know about that, but no-one can deny we have two more than decent players, in both full back positions.

So what''s the bl**dy problem? Is it the midfield? Are the wingers still leaving the full backs too exposed as Hucks often did? Are sammy and rusty making it too easy to play through us? Or is it just that our defenders aren''t that great after all. I really like the look of Stefanovic but i am beginning to wonder if maybe his lapses are part of the problem.

Any other ideas?

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="a1canary"]This is so typical of us. We finally have some personnel that should add up to a great defence, yet we''re still shipping goals badly. What''s all that about? I hear some had Kennedy down as MoM v Derby and most liked what they had seen of him prior to his injury. Stefanovic really seems to divide opinion but i don''t think anyone denies he has composure on the ball and reads the game - two things we had absolutely nothing of last year. The Doc has responded well to the competition and suits both Kennedy and Stefanovic as a CB partner much better than he did Shackell. Maybe we should try Doc and JK. Meanwhile Roeder reckons we have the best full backs in the league. I don''t know about that, but no-one can deny we have two more than decent players, in both full back positions. So what''s the bl**dy problem? Is it the midfield? Are the wingers still leaving the full backs too exposed as Hucks often did? Are sammy and rusty making it too easy to play through us? Or is it just that our defenders aren''t that great after all. I really like the look of Stefanovic but i am beginning to wonder if maybe his lapses are part of the problem. Any other ideas?[/quote]

 

I think its primarily the fullbacks.With the exception of Drury I think they are all questionable defensively,despite Roeder''s comment. I have faith in Stefanovic and Kennedy,and think Doc has done well since coming back,but too much is coming in from the flanks.I also feel that we lack a midfielder to play with Sammy.Rusty puts in great effort but lacks quality.

[Fuglestad 0]

I think the problem is that we field a different back four every week. Players (especially at this level) need stability and to get to know each others games inside out.

Dixon - Bould - Adams - Winterburn - best defence I''ve ever seen because they played together week in week out, year in year out.

Edworthy - Fleming - Mackay - Drury - our best defence in recent years because they played together week in week out.

Culverhouse - Butterworth - Polston - Bowen - same deal.

 

 

[GJP 79]

This is what annoyed me about him dropping the Doc for the Derby game.

It''s not that I don''t rate Kennedy because I do rate him, he''s clearly a good defender. But it was noticeable that we struggled defensively after the Doc left the pitch against Doncaster, the lad with the afro hadn''t a had kick until then.

Yet, despite seeing this in the Doncaster game, against Derby Roeder still decided to send out the weaker defence that had finished the Doncaster game and not the strong defence that had started it.

 

[ricardo 7,349]

[quote user="GJP"]

This is what annoyed me about him dropping the Doc for the Derby game.

It''s not that I don''t rate Kennedy because I do rate him, he''s clearly a good defender. But it was noticeable that we struggled defensively after the Doc left the pitch against Doncaster, the lad with the afro hadn''t a had kick until then.

Yet, despite seeing this in the Doncaster game, against Derby Roeder still decided to send out the weaker defence that had finished the Doncaster game and not the strong defence that had started it.

 

[/quote]

GR needs to learn that if it aint broke don''t fix it.

[city-till-i-die 7]

[quote user="a1canary"]This is so typical of us. We finally have some personnel that should add up to a great defence, yet we''re still shipping goals badly. What''s all that about? I hear some had Kennedy down as MoM v Derby and most liked what they had seen of him prior to his injury. Stefanovic really seems to divide opinion but i don''t think anyone denies he has composure on the ball and reads the game - two things we had absolutely nothing of last year. The Doc has responded well to the competition and suits both Kennedy and Stefanovic as a CB partner much better than he did Shackell. Maybe we should try Doc and JK. Meanwhile Roeder reckons we have the best full backs in the league. I don''t know about that, but no-one can deny we have two more than decent players, in both full back positions. So what''s the bl**dy problem? Is it the midfield? Are the wingers still leaving the full backs too exposed as Hucks often did? Are sammy and rusty making it too easy to play through us? Or is it just that our defenders aren''t that great after all. I really like the look of Stefanovic but i am beginning to wonder if maybe his lapses are part of the problem. Any other ideas?[/quote]stick with a back 4 and leave it(unless of injuries)simple as that

[Syteanric 1]

are they good defenders though? Steffy is 34 and coming to the end of his career.. Kenedy is a walking sick note and Omozusi looks well out of his depth and scared to be on the pitch every game! wheres the players that stand out? apart from the Doc the rest all look woeful regularly!

jas :)

[a1canary 0]

Stick with the same defence, certainly, but it has to be the best defence that he sticks with.

Is this

Otsemobor - Kennedy - Doc - Bertrand

rather than

Omozusi - Kennedy - Stefanovic - Bertrand

[GJP 79]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="GJP"]

This is what annoyed me about him dropping the Doc for the Derby game.

It''s not that I don''t rate Kennedy because I do rate him, he''s clearly a good defender. But it was noticeable that we struggled defensively after the Doc left the pitch against Doncaster, the lad with the afro hadn''t a had kick until then.

Yet, despite seeing this in the Doncaster game, against Derby Roeder still decided to send out the weaker defence that had finished the Doncaster game and not the strong defence that had started it.

 

[/quote]

GR needs to learn that if it aint broke don''t fix it.

[/quote]

Yet how long did her persist with Fotheringham when it was obvious it wasn''t working for him?

Does Roeder always pick the best team rather than picking his favourites? Not convinced he does.

[Empty Mirror 0]

Good points, all.   There''s certainly a mismatch between the widely accepted perception that Dejan, Kennedy et al are great defenders (oh and Sammy is a great holding (i.e., defensive) midfielder and Marhsall is "the best goalkeeper in the league) and the fact that we just can''t keep a clean sheet, and seem to buckle under any sustained pressure.

I think that what one looks for in defenders is, actually, consistency.   If they can read the play, step up into midfield, play a pass, that''s all a bonus, but what really matters is that they are consistent in defending.   No use having someone who is great on the ball and all the rest of it if they make half a dozen howlers in every game.   And Dejan, for all his skill, lacks pace and gets caught for pace two or three times a game (either obviously, as against Doncaster where their chap made up a three yard headstart for the penalty, or less obviously, in that he''s just a half yard behind the guy he''s meant to be marking when the cross comes in and so can''t challenge), Omozusi too is really error prone, and Kennedy, too, may be a "great player" but loses his man twice a game.   Add to that Ryan''s poor form (he looks a shadow of the player he was) and we have a defence that oozes class but is just error prone.   I suspect that Drury and (never thought I''d say this) Doc may be more consistent than Betrand and Dejan.

Other factors apart from individuals being error prone are that Dejan, because of his lack of pace, has to defend deep and so plays the opposition on side / prevents us from stepping up to catch them offside, and Marshall, despite being "the best goalkeeper in the league" doesn''t organise the defence.  

[nutty nigel 7,513]

Maybe our defence isn''t really the problem though. It''s the other end of the pitch that has cost us the points this season. It''s been our inability to take chances when we are on top that''s been the main factor in our low points total. We have conceded 19 goals this season and I think the average is 17. That doesn''t really point to  a leaky defence, especially when you consider 6 of those goals were penalties. Wolves have conceded 22 but they have also scored 33. We have only scored 16 and it''s goal scoring we need to address if we want to move up the table. Specifically making other teams pay when we are in the ascendancy as Derby did to us on Tuesday.

 

[ricardo 7,349]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Maybe our defence isn''t really the problem though. It''s the other end of the pitch that has cost us the points this season. It''s been our inability to take chances when we are on top that''s been the main factor in our low points total. We have conceded 19 goals this season and I think the average is 17. That doesn''t really point to  a leaky defence, especially when you consider 6 of those goals were penalties. Wolves have conceded 22 but they have also scored 33. We have only scored 16 and it''s goal scoring we need to address if we want to move up the table. Specifically making other teams pay when we are in the ascendancy as Derby did to us on Tuesday.

 

[/quote]

When you can''t score goals it always puts pressure on your defence. GR has tried severa forward permutations without any consistent success.

He is however guilty of tinkering with the defence unecessarily. You may love or hate Gary Docherty but its hard to argue that in the few games he has played we have looked my solid. Dropping him Tuesday night looked like being a mistake and the subsequent result proved it to be so.

 

[CDMullins 436]

I think Peter Kenyon and Roy Hodgson told Glenn we had the best full backs in the division.

 

In reality, their awful. And neither will play more than 10 games for their parent club.

[rob kav18 0]

its not always about individuals though, yes jk is a good player but its how the back four work as a unit thats why glenn should stick with the

 doc and not of changed it cos they seemed to be working as a back four with him in it!