Are We Really Just Not Good Enough?

[Matt Morriss 69]

Ive been of the opinion recently that on paper we have a fantastic team, perhaps a bit lightweight in real quality where the strikers are concerned, especially when you look at Wolves with Iwelumo and Ebanks-Blake and Birmingham with Jerome, Phillips etc. But the rest of the lineup i think is really strong.Dejan, Doc, Semmy and Bertrand/Drury is a quality defence for me. Marshall is one of the best keepers in the Championship, despite his recent errors.The midfield looks really strong, Clingan i think is superb, Russell and Pattison are more than good enough to impose themselves in this league, and in Croft, Bell and Hoolahan we should have 3 of the most creative and attacking wide players in the league.The strikeforce is much improved with the arrival of Lita, but still needs work, but for the time being Lita and Sibierski should be good enough to get the goals.So it begs the question, why are we still languishing in the depths of the Championship? Because for me on paper thats a top 6 side.So the simple question is this. Why are we underperforming, and key players in particular like Hoolahan, and Lupoli who ive not even mentioned yet, but who looked so good at the start of the season.Whats the problem? The players not good enough? Or is it Roeder and Clark?

[alex_ncfc 647]

The answer is simple. The players are below quality, and might be a top 6 side on paper in your eyes, but in mine, the bulk of them have underperformed for 2 seasons running, they are not good enough - our fans just think they are because they''re trying to convince themselves - the best way to look at it is, is there anyone in our team that you can seriously see other clubs wanting? When was the last time a player was linked with a move away from Carrow Road?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Add to those players Kennedy, Omozusi, Fotheringham, Cureton, Lupoli and Koroma and the squad is deeper than last season too. But football is a team game and I don''t believe anybody knows what our best team is. We are paying for making so many changes to the team in such a short space of time. Maybe if Roeder had taken over Worthingtons team he could have changed it more gradually. But with two changes in manager in such a short period of time and all the upheaval that brings at the same time as our playing budget was probably halved because we lost the parachute payments, it would seem Roeder has done OK with the acquisition of players. 

I believe the players are good enough but the team is a long way off yet.

 

[. 0]

We used to be...and still could have been had the present shower not dragged us back four decades. I fear our glory days are behind us for a fair few years as money alone won''t cure everything that is so horribly wrong. The whole ethos of NCFC has to be returned to basics and a rebuild begun...and that can''t happen until the image of this club is returned to football and football alone. 

No more old lags and loanees...as that is a recipe for disaster if ever there was one.

[Matt Morriss 69]

[quote user="alex_ncfc"]The answer is simple. The players are below quality, and might be a top 6 side on paper in your eyes, but in mine, the bulk of them have underperformed for 2 seasons running, they are not good enough - our fans just think they are because they''re trying to convince themselves - the best way to look at it is, is there anyone in our team that you can seriously see other clubs wanting? When was the last time a player was linked with a move away from Carrow Road?[/quote]This isnt the case tho is it Alex, if it were we would not have dominated Birmingham at home and destroyed Wolves 2 months later. The players are good enough, but they are underperforming, in a sense that there performing well very inconsistently.

[Matt Morriss 69]

I also think the problem lies at the very top.Most successful businesses are run by ruthless businessmen, and they employ like minded individuals in key areas to get the job done.Would anyone say Delia was a ruthless businesswoman? I think not.Imagine the ethos that ran thru the club from top to bottom if we had someone like Sir Alan Sugar in charge etc.I think we''d see a very different Norwich City.

[GJP 79]

I think we''ve got a pretty good bunch of players but we''re still two or three quality players short. We need a striker more in the mould of Iwan or Dion to help benefit a striker like Lita. And we could probably do with a central midfielder with a bit of pace and power (it''d also be nice if he had some creativity).

And also we need Glenn to stop making so many changes and get an idea of the 11 that should be starting games regularly. Obviously you''ll always have to make a couple of changes but we haven''t had a settled side so far this season.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

I think to answer the question you have to think which players would break into the 6 top sides in the division. In reality Marshall and Clingan would be the only two with a real chance of regular football, I couldnt see even those two having a chance of getting into Wolves or Birmingham side, probably not Reading either. They might squeeze into Cardiff, Burnley and Sheffield united but i dont believe they would be star players in those teams. Some of the other players might be squad players but I dont think they would feature very often. As for the loans imo probably only Kennedy would get close.

We used to always have at least a couple of players capable of playing football in the division above, we certainly dont have that at the momment.

[Canary Pirate 0]

I believe with the players we have we should be either in or challenging for a play off place. I do not think GR''s man management skills are good enough to get the best out of our players. We have two main problems imo. Failure to deliver consistently a variation of quality crosses into the box and regardless of who we have playing up front our irritating habit of failing to stay onside. Other than that, I think.................er....................we have a host of other problems aswell and I can''t think why I started off the sentence dreaming of a play off place. The table doesn''t lie, we are a bunch of misfits seriously challenging for relegation ![:|] 

 

[Matt Morriss 69]

[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

I think to answer the question you have to think which players would break into the 6 top sides in the division. In reality Marshall and Clingan would be the only two with a real chance of regular football, I couldnt see even those two having a chance of getting into Wolves or Birmingham side, probably not Reading either. They might squeeze into Cardiff, Burnley and Sheffield united but i dont believe they would be star players in those teams. Some of the other players might be squad players but I dont think they would feature very often. As for the loans imo probably only Kennedy would get close.

We used to always have at least a couple of players capable of playing football in the division above, we certainly dont have that at the momment.

[/quote]If that is the case then why is it whenever we get a top 6 side at Carrow Road we make them look decidedly ordinary and we look by far the better side, Birmingham and Wolves for example.

[CDMullins 436]

Are we not good enough???? Nail on the head.

I dont know where this delusion that we have a good team/squad.

The loan players we have will no play for their ''parent'' clubs again - Elliot, Bertrand, Kennedy, Sibs, Troy, Lupoli, OJ, Lita will not play a big part in any of their teams future. If they were going to they wouldnt be here. Look at Gibbs we had him for the season, he hasnt played for Arsenal since.

Would Cureton, Russell be playing for any club in our league? I dont think so, their here because we like ex players.

Without doubt or best player Lupoli as barly had a kick.

While I rate Lita as a player, he is wasted in our squad, he needs chances creating for them, he will not get them here!

2 shots on target in the last 2 games, simply not good enough, id also like to see the stats on crossed, through balls.

Wes Hoolahan is the worst player i have seen in a yellow shirt, anyone saying opposite had been watching too much youtube and not going to enough games.

Croft, Patti, Fozzy or the Doc would not get in a top 6 championship side.

The only players that can be decent players for us in that divison for me are Clinghan, Semmy, Drury, Marshall, Bell and Dejan.

The loan players have no reason to show heart, passion, determination or a want to win, they think they''ll be back in the Prem in may. The players that do want to be here Croft, Fozzy, Russell, Cureton just arnt good enough on the pitch.

 

Instead players coming in on loan, we should have get and gave a go the youngsters, lets face it we would be in no worse postition and had Martin had forfilled his promise, Had Spillane or Jarvis had blossemed, we could have been looking at a nice sale for a couple of million of pounds enabling us to bring in 3-4 players. At this minute in time we have no assets, financially we are in the same postition as many other clubs, yet all other clubs have at least 1 player of real quality that can be sold on.

The damage was done in pre-season we missed out on so many players that have gone to, and done really good jobs at other clubs in our divison. 

 

 

[Yellowbeagle 0]

[quote user="Barclayman (artist formerly known as Barclayboy)"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]

I think to answer the question you have to think which players would break into the 6 top sides in the division. In reality Marshall and Clingan would be the only two with a real chance of regular football, I couldnt see even those two having a chance of getting into Wolves or Birmingham side, probably not Reading either. They might squeeze into Cardiff, Burnley and Sheffield united but i dont believe they would be star players in those teams. Some of the other players might be squad players but I dont think they would feature very often. As for the loans imo probably only Kennedy would get close.

We used to always have at least a couple of players capable of playing football in the division above, we certainly dont have that at the momment.

If that is the case then why is it whenever we get a top 6 side at Carrow Road we make them look decidedly ordinary and we look by far the better side, Birmingham and Wolves for example.
[/quote]

The true test of a decent team is to beat the sides around you and those poorer than yourself. The FA cup is littered with giant killings, it doesnt make those little teams better than the larger sides they beat, just on that particular matchday. Please tell me you dont think we are a better side than Wolves or Birmingham just because we played well against them.

[Dr. Bunsen 0]

youre all saying were not good enough. In this league anyone is good enough!!! look at bristol city came up from league 1 and then finished 3rd in the championship the next season same with wigan ect. And Hull who would of put money on them getting promotion at the start of last season?? knowonw. they didnt have any top names, but they had great team spirit and really believed in themselves. Also the manager had faith in his ability and his players and got great team ethic in the squad thats what we dont have all our players at the minute play for themselves or thei wage packet at the end of the week not for the team and the fans who pay their wage packets each week for turning up in there thousands and paying good hard earned money to watch them play. We need a good team spirit more than anything in this league

 

Dr Bunsen

[Thecanaryfan 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Add to those players Kennedy, Omozusi, Fotheringham, Cureton, Lupoli and Koroma and the squad is deeper than last season too. But football is a team game and I don''t believe anybody knows what our best team is. We are paying for making so many changes to the team in such a short space of time. Maybe if Roeder had taken over Worthingtons team he could have changed it more gradually. But with two changes in manager in such a short period of time and all the upheaval that brings at the same time as our playing budget was probably halved because we lost the parachute payments, it would seem Roeder has done OK with the acquisition of players. 

I believe the players are good enough but the team is a long way off yet.

 

[/quote]

Agree entirely Nigel. Too much tinkering over too little time. What is it going to take to get the team right though? Manager, investment or time?

[Thecanaryfan 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Add to those players Kennedy, Omozusi, Fotheringham, Cureton, Lupoli and Koroma and the squad is deeper than last season too. But football is a team game and I don''t believe anybody knows what our best team is. We are paying for making so many changes to the team in such a short space of time. Maybe if Roeder had taken over Worthingtons team he could have changed it more gradually. But with two changes in manager in such a short period of time and all the upheaval that brings at the same time as our playing budget was probably halved because we lost the parachute payments, it would seem Roeder has done OK with the acquisition of players. 

I believe the players are good enough but the team is a long way off yet.

 

[/quote]

Agree entirely Nigel. Too much tinkering over too little time. What is it going to take to get the team right though? Manager, investment or time?

[Thecanaryfan 0]

[quote user="CDMullins"]

The loan players we have will no play for their ''parent'' clubs again - Elliot, Bertrand, Kennedy, Sibs, Troy, Lupoli, OJ, Lita will not play a big part in any of their teams future. If they were going to they wouldnt be here. Look at Gibbs we had him for the season, he hasnt played for Arsenal since.

[/quote]

Not including Ched Evans ofcourse.

[Indy_Bones 441]

In my opinion, it''s not the quality of players that''s lacking, it''s a combination of low morale and highly questionable tactics.If you put a player like Henry in our side and then simply lumped endless long balls or crosses towards him, he''d score a few goals but in general would look a shadow of the player he is because we''re not playing anything like the type of football he thrives on.As a number of fans have pointed out, it''s all well and good having players like Lita here on loan, but if we don''t give them the right balls, they''re unlikely to perform as wanted.The reason we played well against Wolves and Brum was because we actually started to play a calmer passing game, something I''ve been demanding for over 2 years now. Croft and Hoolahan like the ball in close to run at defenders rather than whipping the ball in, Lita/Lupoli/Curo all prefer the ball into feet or to run onto, so why insist on crosses or long balls (Just to benefit Sibierski???). Russell is not a striker, and quite why he''s being selected above Lupoli is beyond baffling.We also need to have more stability - if the situation allows. I''m sure most of us would have preferred Semmy to Omozusi on the right, but if Semmy is injured, then Omo is the best replacement option.Put our best XI out, keep that team out apart from injuries, and demand we start playing more sensible, passing. possession football - in line with the strengths of our players. If we could do that to a decent level, we''d be guaranteed of the playoffs as a minimum.The fault here really is the tactics and team choices, not that we''ve simply got poor players.Indy.

[Syteanric 1]

some good points here... I do feel that some of the players ARE good enough, Bell, Stefanovic, Bertrand are all quality players in my eyes... Clinkers is a good championship player too.. may get found out a little bit in the Premiership though...

the rest of the side, im sorry to say, are not good enough.. we are made up of a mix of lower championship/upper league 1 signings, they can up their game when the big boys come here and cause an upset as we have seen.. but can''t motivate themselves when it matters.. quality wise i dont think we have that good a side, individually the players have some ability, but as a team we are sorely lacking!

 is it down to the coaches not motivating? are the players hearts not in it too?

We can only punch above our weight until we get KO''d i guess.

jas :)

 

[CDMullins 436]

[quote user="TCF"][quote user="CDMullins"]

The loan players we have will no play for their ''parent'' clubs again - Elliot, Bertrand, Kennedy, Sibs, Troy, Lupoli, OJ, Lita will not play a big part in any of their teams future. If they were going to they wouldnt be here. Look at Gibbs we had him for the season, he hasnt played for Arsenal since.

[/quote]

Not including Ched Evans ofcourse.

[/quote]

 

See what happens come January when Hughes gets his millions!

[Yellowbeagle 0]

[quote user="CDMullins"][quote user="TCF"][quote user="CDMullins"]

The loan players we have will no play for their ''parent'' clubs again - Elliot, Bertrand, Kennedy, Sibs, Troy, Lupoli, OJ, Lita will not play a big part in any of their teams future. If they were going to they wouldnt be here. Look at Gibbs we had him for the season, he hasnt played for Arsenal since.

[/quote]

Not including Ched Evans ofcourse.

[/quote]

 

See what happens come January when Hughes gets his millions!

[/quote]

Agree mostly, but I think Kennedy may have a chance at Celtic, they''re using us to see if he can get fit and stay fit.

 

[Scooby 0]

[quote user="CDMullins"]

Are we not good enough???? Nail on the head.

I dont know where this delusion that we have a good team/squad.

The loan players we have will no play for their ''parent'' clubs again - Elliot, Bertrand, Kennedy, Sibs, Troy, Lupoli, OJ, Lita will not play a big part in any of their teams future. If they were going to they wouldnt be here. Look at Gibbs we had him for the season, he hasnt played for Arsenal since.

 

[/quote]

Not really being paying much attention have you CD.  Gibbs has been playing for Wengers young guns, notably the 6-0 demolition of Sheffield Utd in the cup where, according to all the reports, he was awesome.

[Binky 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]In my opinion, it''s not the quality of players that''s lacking, it''s a combination of low morale and highly questionable tactics.

We also need to have more stability - if the situation allows. I''m sure most of us would have preferred Semmy to Omozusi on the right, but if Semmy is injured, then Omo is the best replacement option.

Put our best XI out, keep that team out apart from injuries, and demand we start playing more sensible, passing. possession football - in line with the strengths of our players. If we could do that to a decent level, we''d be guaranteed of the playoffs as a minimum.

The fault here really is the tactics and team choices, not that we''ve simply got poor players.

Indy.
[/quote]

Indy - I agree 100% with these sentiments. The manager is the manager is the manager. Roeder has assembled a half decent squad - surely better than a lot in the division - but IMO he has yet to learn how to motivate and make them work together to make their sum total greater than the individuals. I respect Neil Adams'' views - but to suggest, as he did on Saturday, that an obvious talent like Hoolahan should rightly be dropped after his previous bad game is overlooking the need to maintain some continuity and consistency. (Surely better to point out that while he deserves to be dropped on his past performance, he is retaining his place because the manager believes in him. We all have off days). Ironically GR referred to Adams (indirectly) as "nasty". I''m getting that view of Roeder. he needs to make players want to give 100% for 90 mins - not 99% for 45 mins. Time is getting urgent - he needs to take stock of our best and most talented players - Clingan, Bell, Hoolahan, Kennedy, Otsemobor, Drury etc - be clear as to where they prefer to play and make them feel important and needed. As indeed they are. As I have said elsewhere, why should anyone cough up more millions to a manager who has yet to prove he can get the best out of people?

[Scooby 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]In my opinion, it''s not the quality of players that''s lacking, it''s a combination of low morale and highly questionable tactics.



The fault here really is the tactics and team choices, not that we''ve simply got poor players.

Indy.
[/quote]

You make some excellent points here Indy. (not bothered quoting your whole speech to save space).  My question would be, why can they do it against some but not others? Not because the opposition are better when we are beaten, as we''ve out played Wolves and Brum but been outclassed by Barnsley. I would strongly suggest that it is neither the tactics nor the selection as I''m sure, after Wolves, that GR didn''t tell exactly the same team to play a completely different way in the very next game against Donny!  I feel that it''s a combination of lack of self discipline, lack of leadership on the field, and panic football (ie revert to long ball) if things are not going according to plan.  Lesser teams have worked us out. They just close us down quickly, kick us a lot, and we panic.  GR is clearly trying to get us to play the right way.  The fact that the players can only do it for a limited period of time is not his fault but theirs.  Is it a lone player mentality?  I don''t know, but has anyone considered the services of a top sports psychologist?

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

"CLASSLESS" people might say Mr Roeder is a hopeless manager and that his team is not good enough. I have to say I cannot find too much wrong with that argument, though!

[CDMullins 436]

The same youth team / League cup team that Lupoli played in and couple of years ago???? Hmmmmmmm anyone know where Lupoli is now??

 

I disagree, but only time will tell how well whether Bertrand will displace Ashley Cole, Gibbs with displace Nasri/Van Persie?? I think not.

[lucky green trainers 0]

confidence comes from good performances, results and settled sides, where each know their role and take responsibilty to ensure they do it to a given standard,,,we''ve suffered from an unsettled team, due to injuries, but also because of weird selections by roedy, most notably in midfield,,,because when sibs in injured - he puts rusty up front and in doing so we get the worst of both worlds - a weaker front line and a weaker midfield...clinkers and rusty look head and shoulders our best pairing...and we need these two to compete and dominate the middle - at burnley on sat - their centre mid duo ran the show...which obviously gives confidence to the rest of the team, the defence feel shielded, the attack feel supported, and the wings feel supplied...the type of no-shows witnessed on saturday gives fuel to the speculation that team morale/spirit isn''t what it should be - and that maybe we have too many individuals underperforming, leading to a general poor team showing...certainly - fozzie looks a shadow of his former self,,,hooley is up and down like a yo-yo in terms of performance,,,steff looks a class act one match, then not so hot the next,,,plastic has been dropped for being off his game - and ozi can''t be far behind him,,,the doc looked one-paced for our goals on sat - only kennedy looked like he was really busting a gut to defend our goal,,,crofty is beefier and added stamina to his game this term - meaning he can run for 90mins - and is beginning to realise he is at his best when direct and running past defenders - but in terms of goal creation, at time he looks effing clueless - maybe he should watch match of the day highlights over and over again, until the fudging penny drops,,,bell looks like he could be decent - but has shown only promise so far - what we need is end product, not pretty shimmy''s on the byeline (and that goes for hooley too)  meanwhile - matty patty is all action - but goalless since he got here - and while he unsettles defenders, again like croft - wheres the goal creation craft??? seems to me it went west with huckerby,,,imo - as i''ve already posted on here yesterday - our loanees are struggling,,,sure, kennedy is maybe the best of the bunch - and his heart is as big as an ox - but lupes is lacking confidence according to reports, and the best are underperforming...and if the team is generally underperforming, the buck stops fair and squarely at roedy,,,he must know this, and i''m sure he''s working to get his troops working hard and playing like a team...