NCISA your time has come STAND UP AND BE COUNTED

[ca 1]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

City Angel i am sure that you will take what i am now going to say in the wrong way.I want to take issue with your last post with regard to the NCISA committee members posting their personal opinions on  the current situation at Carrow Road.Having sat on the committee yourself during the last year albeit only for a few months you are aware of the individuals who make up it''s current format.In fact you were present when the current committee were elected.Only four members are registered on this website so six are not.Peoples personal opinions are exactly that and if they wish to publish them for the world and its auntie to read it is entirely a matter for them.I am amazed that you seem to think that The Pink Un messageboard is the place for NCISA to conduct its business.

On the two threads covering the current situation bearing the name NCISA within it you have posted a total of THIRTEEN times.

Now have i missed something but where have you given your take on finance,Delia,Glenn Roeder etc.Several people have constructed well thought posts including your friend Jane to name but one.

Have you emailed NCISA as one of its members giving us an overview on your opinions.The answer is NO.

Why have you adopted this crusade of yours to keep telling NCISA what to do ?When you were part of the committee you had your chance to influence policy and did not take the opportunity but now you pop up on here at every turn.Have the fortunes of our club changed that much since you were part of the committee.No i think not in all honesty.

The NCISA committee are elected to make democratic decisions and those decisions if deemed necessary are released via a press statement.You may well not agree with those decisions but it is within your power as a member to put it right at the next NCISA AGM.I do not necessarily agree with what some of my committee members make of the current set up at Carrow Road but although i am Chairman i have one vote and if out voted it is called democracy.[/quote]

How could anyone possible take offence at anything you say Tilly, you''re such a charming gentle and approachable creature

Now lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story, but I was never part of your committee for a few months, in fact I only ever attended one meeting at the Jex school ( think it was July) and that was by invitation from Kathy to see what I thought, to meet the others and see what you were all about. I never attended any further meetings after that one and emailed Kathy to say that I wouldn''t be joining your committee although she did ask me to think about it for a while before she told you as she thought I would do a good job and wanted me to change my mind which I didn''t ( I still have the email''s)

As for being present when your committee was elected I don''t understand what you mean, I didn''t turn up at your AGM until just before the forum with Lee started ( was working) so didn''t vote on anything.

You say only 4 committee members are registered on this site and 6 aren''t which also puzzles me as there are only 9 members shown on your website. Shame that the others, with the exception of Roy who I know dislikes pcs , haven''t bothered to register on here which is what I consider to be the main Norwich forum where you can engage in conversation with your fellow fans, seems that everything NCISA on here revolves round Kathy  and yourself although ''''face'''' ( David) has come into the reckoning recently and is making an impact with his honest forthright views.

Next you tell me how many times I''ve posted in NCISA threads, well I thought it was a free world and I didn''t realise that I had a limit of how many times I could post in any one thread or that I had to ask your permission!!

Then you tell me again that I''m telling you what to do, would anyone dare to do that, I ask you !! All I''m doing is making suggestions as to how you might make more of an impact, get more members and gage opinions of your members.

You them hint that not all your committee agree with your views , well we all have different views but how about those people sharing their views with us members so we can understand their reasoning, again if you had regular meetings with your members that could be achieved.

David (face) suggests in the other thread that you need to update members details and maybe make yourselves accessible to fans before games,which are two good ideas so maybe he''ll have others to help you.

I was going to say that any further views or suggestions I have will be emailed to David Maidstone but to be honest I can''t be bothered anymore because  like Mr Roeder you obviously don''t like to be challenged, don''t like people making suggestions, don''t value other people''s opinions and you''re always right ,so its a waste of time. In fact you two have loads in common!

Last NCISA post from me so you''ve silenced me which is what I presume you wanted to achieve.

 

[As my login causes problems [ :o) ] 0]

Whoops my failings shown up again.

We have 10 committee members but the latest - Danny Sands - has not been added to the web site.

Sack the monkey webmaster on that as it is not the Organ Grinder''s fault.

:o(

 

[TIL 1010 4,737]

[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

City Angel i am sure that you will take what i am now going to say in the wrong way.I want to take issue with your last post with regard to the NCISA committee members posting their personal opinions on  the current situation at Carrow Road.Having sat on the committee yourself during the last year albeit only for a few months you are aware of the individuals who make up it''s current format.In fact you were present when the current committee were elected.Only four members are registered on this website so six are not.Peoples personal opinions are exactly that and if they wish to publish them for the world and its auntie to read it is entirely a matter for them.I am amazed that you seem to think that The Pink Un messageboard is the place for NCISA to conduct its business.

On the two threads covering the current situation bearing the name NCISA within it you have posted a total of THIRTEEN times.

Now have i missed something but where have you given your take on finance,Delia,Glenn Roeder etc.Several people have constructed well thought posts including your friend Jane to name but one.

Have you emailed NCISA as one of its members giving us an overview on your opinions.The answer is NO.

Why have you adopted this crusade of yours to keep telling NCISA what to do ?When you were part of the committee you had your chance to influence policy and did not take the opportunity but now you pop up on here at every turn.Have the fortunes of our club changed that much since you were part of the committee.No i think not in all honesty.

The NCISA committee are elected to make democratic decisions and those decisions if deemed necessary are released via a press statement.You may well not agree with those decisions but it is within your power as a member to put it right at the next NCISA AGM.I do not necessarily agree with what some of my committee members make of the current set up at Carrow Road but although i am Chairman i have one vote and if out voted it is called democracy.[/quote]

How could anyone possible take offence at anything you say Tilly, you''re such a charming gentle and approachable creature

Now lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story, but I was never part of your committee for a few months, in fact I only ever attended one meeting at the Jex school ( think it was July) and that was by invitation from Kathy to see what I thought, to meet the others and see what you were all about. I never attended any further meetings after that one and emailed Kathy to say that I wouldn''t be joining your committee although she did ask me to think about it for a while before she told you as she thought I would do a good job and wanted me to change my mind which I didn''t ( I still have the email''s)

As for being present when your committee was elected I don''t understand what you mean, I didn''t turn up at your AGM until just before the forum with Lee started ( was working) so didn''t vote on anything.

You say only 4 committee members are registered on this site and 6 aren''t which also puzzles me as there are only 9 members shown on your website. Shame that the others, with the exception of Roy who I know dislikes pcs , haven''t bothered to register on here which is what I consider to be the main Norwich forum where you can engage in conversation with your fellow fans, seems that everything NCISA on here revolves round Kathy  and yourself although ''''face'''' ( David) has come into the reckoning recently and is making an impact with his honest forthright views.

Next you tell me how many times I''ve posted in NCISA threads, well I thought it was a free world and I didn''t realise that I had a limit of how many times I could post in any one thread or that I had to ask your permission!!

Then you tell me again that I''m telling you what to do, would anyone dare to do that, I ask you !! All I''m doing is making suggestions as to how you might make more of an impact, get more members and gage opinions of your members.

You them hint that not all your committee agree with your views , well we all have different views but how about those people sharing their views with us members so we can understand their reasoning, again if you had regular meetings with your members that could be achieved.

David (face) suggests in the other thread that you need to update members details and maybe make yourselves accessible to fans before games,which are two good ideas so maybe he''ll have others to help you.

I was going to say that any further views or suggestions I have will be emailed to David Maidstone but to be honest I can''t be bothered anymore because  like Mr Roeder you obviously don''t like to be challenged, don''t like people making suggestions, don''t value other people''s opinions and you''re always right ,so its a waste of time. In fact you two have loads in common!

Last NCISA post from me so you''ve silenced me which is what I presume you wanted to achieve.

 

[/quote]

And your opinions on Mr Roeder,Delia,Finance etc are.........................................?

As for your posts,the reason i counted them was because i was looking for your opinions on the above.Silly old me could not find any though.

Gentleman or not i was told by my elders as a boy that sarcasm was the lowest form of wit.Something you seem to have mastered in your post CA.

"you''ve silenced me" is a tad rich because you may have noticed that Kathy has not got involved in our little spat.Ever considered that she has not approved of your NCISA posts of late?Believe me Diane she is not a happy bunny.

 

[Bobert 0]

"I was going to say that any further views or suggestions I have will be emailed to David Maidstone but to be honest I can''t be bothered anymore because  like Mr Roeder you obviously don''t like to be challenged, don''t like people making suggestions, don''t value other people''s opinions and you''re always right ,so its a waste of time. In fact you two have loads in common"

Seems to me CA from reading your posts that this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black!

[yellow hammer 0]

Ooh heck should I really be the first NCISA committee member to stick his head up on this thread? 

OK this is entirely personal as I have had no contact from any other committee members although a couple of NCISA members have rung me already today.  Yes I freely admit to being very anti-board and have never had a free crisp from the club let alone a prawn.  Every beer and pie paid for thanks, so quite independent thank you.

The trouble with protests and the like is that they galvanise opinion very quickly as those of us who have been through previous ones can vouch.  You will be abused, spat at and if too close to the heart of things up against the weight of the law, so it is and always will be a careful path for anyone to tread.  It is just as easy for it to be counter productive as to achieve anything.

As said above and in other threads NCISA represents all fans and those who take the trouble to join.  If it is dominated by advocates of the status quo then that is the fault of those who want change not joining in enough force to change the balance.

There are a lot of anti-board people out there but how many do we really know.  It needs wider counselling to be sure and as Smudger often tells me one good result and the pendulum soon swings back.

I have spoken to many people on here and even amongst Pink Un posters there are a lot who feel that we need to let Delia have her chance first.  There are rumours of deals already done, or moves already made.  Clearly no statementwill be made before the AGM so what does NCISA do spend all its money on something to find in a few weeks it is all irrelevant?

So yes Cam it would be daring to act before the AGM.  Whether the committe was right or wrong in that decision hindsight will tell us, but failing Malaysian syndicates finances we cannot effect results and so NCISA has decided to wait. 

Rest assured that if things carry on after the AGM as they are now, I will be protesting either with NCISA or without them.

So once again this is personal, but hopefully does show that the NCISA position is through consideration not apathy.

David, regardless of NCISA committee member''s views of the status quo at the club, I truly appreciate the time and effort that people like yourself put into representing the fans of NCFC. And unless one is a member of NCISA then one does not have the right to criticise how your organisation performs its business. I would like to offer one suggestion, however. If NCISA is to canvas for change at the club, do you not think that it is appropriate for NCISA to temporarily suspend its activities within the club? This would send out a clear message firstly, to the fans that you are independant of the club and secondly, to the board that you are serious in your intentions.

There is much good work done in the working sub-groups of NCISA that benefits the fans, so I suggest a suspension rather than a wholesale, permanent withdrawl from dialogue with the club. It is a small measure, but I prefer to see a whole series of small measures taken rather than out-and-out confrontation which might lead to skirmishes with the law and the risk of injury to supporters.

And since this is the AGM time of year, now would be an ideal time to implement this measure.

 

[TIL 1010 4,737]

[quote user="yellow hammer"]

Ooh heck should I really be the first NCISA committee member to stick his head up on this thread? 

OK this is entirely personal as I have had no contact from any other committee members although a couple of NCISA members have rung me already today.  Yes I freely admit to being very anti-board and have never had a free crisp from the club let alone a prawn.  Every beer and pie paid for thanks, so quite independent thank you.

The trouble with protests and the like is that they galvanise opinion very quickly as those of us who have been through previous ones can vouch.  You will be abused, spat at and if too close to the heart of things up against the weight of the law, so it is and always will be a careful path for anyone to tread.  It is just as easy for it to be counter productive as to achieve anything.

As said above and in other threads NCISA represents all fans and those who take the trouble to join.  If it is dominated by advocates of the status quo then that is the fault of those who want change not joining in enough force to change the balance.

There are a lot of anti-board people out there but how many do we really know.  It needs wider counselling to be sure and as Smudger often tells me one good result and the pendulum soon swings back.

I have spoken to many people on here and even amongst Pink Un posters there are a lot who feel that we need to let Delia have her chance first.  There are rumours of deals already done, or moves already made.  Clearly no statementwill be made before the AGM so what does NCISA do spend all its money on something to find in a few weeks it is all irrelevant?

So yes Cam it would be daring to act before the AGM.  Whether the committe was right or wrong in that decision hindsight will tell us, but failing Malaysian syndicates finances we cannot effect results and so NCISA has decided to wait. 

Rest assured that if things carry on after the AGM as they are now, I will be protesting either with NCISA or without them.

So once again this is personal, but hopefully does show that the NCISA position is through consideration not apathy.

David, regardless of NCISA committee member''s views of the status quo at the club, I truly appreciate the time and effort that people like yourself put into representing the fans of NCFC. And unless one is a member of NCISA then one does not have the right to criticise how your organisation performs its business. I would like to offer one suggestion, however. If NCISA is to canvas for change at the club, do you not think that it is appropriate for NCISA to temporarily suspend its activities within the club? This would send out a clear message firstly, to the fans that you are independant of the club and secondly, to the board that you are serious in your intentions.

There is much good work done in the working sub-groups of NCISA that benefits the fans, so I suggest a suspension rather than a wholesale, permanent withdrawl from dialogue with the club. It is a small measure, but I prefer to see a whole series of small measures taken rather than out-and-out confrontation which might lead to skirmishes with the law and the risk of injury to supporters.

And since this is the AGM time of year, now would be an ideal time to implement this measure.

 

[/quote]

Thanks YH for your input.Can i pleas just clarify a couple of points regarding NCISA''s financial involvement with NCFC and its connection with club organised meetings.

1)We sponsor Lee Clark which this year cost £1400 pounds.That was paid for back in July and obviously runs to the end of the 2008/9 season.

2)We particiopate each year in The Ambassador 250 draw at a cost of £240 which again for this season is done and dusted.

3)The Canary challenge is up and running and to suspend it would not be practical or popular amongst those that are participating.

The only two people from the NCISA committee who sit on the SCG are Roy Blower and myself.The Club will tell you that we sit as fans and not representatives of NCISA.I am aware that two other SCG members are ordinary NCISA members also.I hear where you are coming from and i myself have very strong views about where the SCG is at in the light of the Cullumgate affair.You will recall the position the Club put the SCG in when it called a special meeting the day this sorry situation broke in the media.I promise to seek advice from my committee about your thoughts at our next meeting which is only days after the AGM.

Depending on what Delia,Doncaster and Munby say will give a clear indication to all of us about the future of our club.Speculating achieves nothing and i feel acting armed with what is said or not said if more to the point will put the fans in a far stronger position if their voice requires to be heard far louder,far clearer and far more organised.

[renegade tootsie 0]

This is the first potentially useful thing anyone from the NCISA has ever said.  Lets hope they do become the focal point for change. 

Depending on what Delia,Doncaster and Munby say will give a clear indication to all of us about the future of our club.Speculating achieves nothing and i feel acting armed with what is said or not said if more to the point will put the fans in a far stronger position if their voice requires to be heard far louder,far clearer and far more organised.

[InLambertWeTrust! 0]

Anybody who doesnt want the board to change is in De-LIAR''s barmy army!

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="crafty canary"]Enjoying a prawn sandwich and cup of tea?[/quote]

Hahaha ooops... sorry Tilly, but I couldn''t help but pee my pants at that!!!  [:D]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Thanks Face for putting your personal opinion across. CA has made a very valid suggestion in that the committee stand outside the ground to seek opinion of supporters in general and maybe suggest a few more join the organisation. Is this a feasible suggestion and one the committee would consider doing? I would have thought that membership numbers would rise considerably. My own personal opinion is that many people I know who are not members think NCISA can neither change anything ultimately, or for the moment don''t represent them as their image of NCISA is it is too cosy within the club and therefore won''t say a word against it. Face, one thing I would like an answer to. Just how many members could be canvassed for opinion by email (therefore without dipping into Association funds too much)? Are you saying that the cost of asking people is delaying this action or that you think a general statement at the AGM is likely to appease supporters?[/quote]

If somebody from the committee is prepared to that (just one person) then I am sure I for one and possibly other NCISA members will be prepared to help out.

I am a recently signed up member of the NCISA and my image of them has been much the same as those who think they are too close to the club representatives over the years.

They are the best chance we have of raising the issues that many have however and I would welcome any other people who want to see change happen to contact NCISA as soon as possible.

If enough of us ask for change for long enough then what choice do they have but to act?

It is only a few quid to join and is our best hope of changing what is going on at the club.

[yellow hammer 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="yellow hammer"]

Ooh heck should I really be the first NCISA committee member to stick his head up on this thread? 

OK this is entirely personal as I have had no contact from any other committee members although a couple of NCISA members have rung me already today.  Yes I freely admit to being very anti-board and have never had a free crisp from the club let alone a prawn.  Every beer and pie paid for thanks, so quite independent thank you.

The trouble with protests and the like is that they galvanise opinion very quickly as those of us who have been through previous ones can vouch.  You will be abused, spat at and if too close to the heart of things up against the weight of the law, so it is and always will be a careful path for anyone to tread.  It is just as easy for it to be counter productive as to achieve anything.

As said above and in other threads NCISA represents all fans and those who take the trouble to join.  If it is dominated by advocates of the status quo then that is the fault of those who want change not joining in enough force to change the balance.

There are a lot of anti-board people out there but how many do we really know.  It needs wider counselling to be sure and as Smudger often tells me one good result and the pendulum soon swings back.

I have spoken to many people on here and even amongst Pink Un posters there are a lot who feel that we need to let Delia have her chance first.  There are rumours of deals already done, or moves already made.  Clearly no statementwill be made before the AGM so what does NCISA do spend all its money on something to find in a few weeks it is all irrelevant?

So yes Cam it would be daring to act before the AGM.  Whether the committe was right or wrong in that decision hindsight will tell us, but failing Malaysian syndicates finances we cannot effect results and so NCISA has decided to wait. 

Rest assured that if things carry on after the AGM as they are now, I will be protesting either with NCISA or without them.

So once again this is personal, but hopefully does show that the NCISA position is through consideration not apathy.

David, regardless of NCISA committee member''s views of the status quo at the club, I truly appreciate the time and effort that people like yourself put into representing the fans of NCFC. And unless one is a member of NCISA then one does not have the right to criticise how your organisation performs its business. I would like to offer one suggestion, however. If NCISA is to canvas for change at the club, do you not think that it is appropriate for NCISA to temporarily suspend its activities within the club? This would send out a clear message firstly, to the fans that you are independant of the club and secondly, to the board that you are serious in your intentions.

There is much good work done in the working sub-groups of NCISA that benefits the fans, so I suggest a suspension rather than a wholesale, permanent withdrawl from dialogue with the club. It is a small measure, but I prefer to see a whole series of small measures taken rather than out-and-out confrontation which might lead to skirmishes with the law and the risk of injury to supporters.

And since this is the AGM time of year, now would be an ideal time to implement this measure.

 

[/quote]

Thanks YH for your input.Can i pleas just clarify a couple of points regarding NCISA''s financial involvement with NCFC and its connection with club organised meetings.

1)We sponsor Lee Clark which this year cost £1400 pounds.That was paid for back in July and obviously runs to the end of the 2008/9 season.

2)We particiopate each year in The Ambassador 250 draw at a cost of £240 which again for this season is done and dusted.

3)The Canary challenge is up and running and to suspend it would not be practical or popular amongst those that are participating.

The only two people from the NCISA committee who sit on the SCG are Roy Blower and myself.The Club will tell you that we sit as fans and not representatives of NCISA.I am aware that two other SCG members are ordinary NCISA members also.I hear where you are coming from and i myself have very strong views about where the SCG is at in the light of the Cullumgate affair.You will recall the position the Club put the SCG in when it called a special meeting the day this sorry situation broke in the media.I promise to seek advice from my committee about your thoughts at our next meeting which is only days after the AGM.

Depending on what Delia,Doncaster and Munby say will give a clear indication to all of us about the future of our club.Speculating achieves nothing and i feel acting armed with what is said or not said if more to the point will put the fans in a far stronger position if their voice requires to be heard far louder,far clearer and far more organised.

[/quote]

Thanks for your reply, John. Agreed it would be mean-spirited and unhelpful to break the financial commitments made by NCISA. It is precisely the way that the SCG members were pooped upon from on high during the Cullumgate affair that I think it is important that you put clear water between fan''s groups and the NCFC should off-field events develop. At the time, SCG members were highly criticised for being too close to the club, unfairly in my opinion, so whether in your capacity as NCISA committe member or with your SCG hat on, suspending dialogue on matter such as the ''match-day experience'', ''away-day'' ans catering sub-groups are a small measure but send a strong signal to those who matter.

 

[nutty nigel 7,528]

[quote user="yellow hammer"]

Thanks for your reply, John. Agreed it would be mean-spirited and unhelpful to break the financial commitments made by NCISA. It is precisely the way that the SCG members were pooped upon from on high during the Cullumgate affair that I think it is important that you put clear water between fan''s groups and the NCFC should off-field events develop. At the time, SCG members were highly criticised for being too close to the club, unfairly in my opinion, so whether in your capacity as NCISA committe member or with your SCG hat on, suspending dialogue on matter such as the ''match-day experience'', ''away-day'' ans catering sub-groups are a small measure but send a strong signal to those who matter.

 

[/quote]

You may not like it but some of us still want to carry on supporting the club. Some of us still want to follow the club home and away from home. While we all may still have issues with the board over various policies it''s a long time since I have heard any complaints about the systems in place for ticketing and other issues that concern the away fans. This I believe is entirely due to the dialogue between the club and groups like the SCG. It''s also a long way removed from the systems? that were in place under prior administrations. I am grateful for the work that the club, SCG and even nCIsA  do on our behalf despite the bits of fun I have with Tilly on here. I see nothing to gain by cutting ties that could end up making a difference to the fans that want to carry on going to games and supporting their team.

Every suggestion that''s made on here seems to have to involve somebody else doing something. "You should be boycotting games" or "You should stop spending money on merchandise or in the bars at the ground" "Withdraw your support from this" or "Stop doing that". Why not concentrate on yourselves. If you want to boycott then boycott. If you want to stay at home then don''t buy the tickets to go away. Take a leaf out of Smudgers book and stand outside the ground protesting. If you can''t get there because you live away then bombard the club with letters, emails or phone calls to make your voice heard. But also let those of us who want to carry on supporting the club do it.

 

[The Lucky Nine 0]

Very sensible post.  Smudger you have gone up in my estimations 10 fold!

[yellow hammer 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="yellow hammer"]

Thanks for your reply, John. Agreed it would be mean-spirited and unhelpful to break the financial commitments made by NCISA. It is precisely the way that the SCG members were pooped upon from on high during the Cullumgate affair that I think it is important that you put clear water between fan''s groups and the NCFC should off-field events develop. At the time, SCG members were highly criticised for being too close to the club, unfairly in my opinion, so whether in your capacity as NCISA committe member or with your SCG hat on, suspending dialogue on matter such as the ''match-day experience'', ''away-day'' ans catering sub-groups are a small measure but send a strong signal to those who matter.

 

[/quote]

You may not like it but some of us still want to carry on supporting the club. Some of us still want to follow the club home and away from home. While we all may still have issues with the board over various policies it''s a long time since I have heard any complaints about the systems in place for ticketing and other issues that concern the away fans. This I believe is entirely due to the dialogue between the club and groups like the SCG. It''s also a long way removed from the systems? that were in place under prior administrations. I am grateful for the work that the club, SCG and even nCIsA  do on our behalf despite the bits of fun I have with Tilly on here. I see nothing to gain by cutting ties that could end up making a difference to the fans that want to carry on going to games and supporting their team.

Every suggestion that''s made on here seems to have to involve somebody else doing something. "You should be boycotting games" or "You should stop spending money on merchandise or in the bars at the ground" "Withdraw your support from this" or "Stop doing that". Why not concentrate on yourselves. If you want to boycott then boycott. If you want to stay at home then don''t buy the tickets to go away. Take a leaf out of Smudgers book and stand outside the ground protesting. If you can''t get there because you live away then bombard the club with letters, emails or phone calls to make your voice heard. But also let those of us who want to carry on supporting the club do it.

 

[/quote]

Nutty, you are quite welcome to do as much or as little as you want. And if the majority of fans wish to accept the current situation even if it leads us to relegation or bankruptcy, then they will get exactly what they deserve. We all want to support the club but at the same time we all carry the responsibility for the direction in which the club is going. I posted to last month how players, managers and the board are all accountable for their actions, what I also should have said is that we fans also share a responsibility for what happens to the club. What I see happening right now is the early stages of mobilisation of fans discontent into some form of action. It won''t happen overnigtht, there are twenty-five thousand paying customers all with individual points of view, and all views equally valid. There is large hinterland of support beyond those who attend matches on a regular basis. Everyone has to decide what is right for him or herself. This forum is a vehicle for expressing ideas how such action might be implemented and John Tilson is quite rightly sounding out opinion among fans as to the way forward. If you don''t want to be part of it, up to you!

Theodore Roosevelt,1910. "It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."

  

[still holding out for new heroes 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="yellow hammer"]

Thanks for your reply, John. Agreed it would be mean-spirited and unhelpful to break the financial commitments made by NCISA. It is precisely the way that the SCG members were pooped upon from on high during the Cullumgate affair that I think it is important that you put clear water between fan''s groups and the NCFC should off-field events develop. At the time, SCG members were highly criticised for being too close to the club, unfairly in my opinion, so whether in your capacity as NCISA committe member or with your SCG hat on, suspending dialogue on matter such as the ''match-day experience'', ''away-day'' ans catering sub-groups are a small measure but send a strong signal to those who matter.

 

[/quote]

You may not like it but some of us still want to carry on supporting the club. Some of us still want to follow the club home and away from home. While we all may still have issues with the board over various policies it''s a long time since I have heard any complaints about the systems in place for ticketing and other issues that concern the away fans. This I believe is entirely due to the dialogue between the club and groups like the SCG. It''s also a long way removed from the systems? that were in place under prior administrations. I am grateful for the work that the club, SCG and even nCIsA  do on our behalf despite the bits of fun I have with Tilly on here. I see nothing to gain by cutting ties that could end up making a difference to the fans that want to carry on going to games and supporting their team.

Every suggestion that''s made on here seems to have to involve somebody else doing something. "You should be boycotting games" or "You should stop spending money on merchandise or in the bars at the ground" "Withdraw your support from this" or "Stop doing that". Why not concentrate on yourselves. If you want to boycott then boycott. If you want to stay at home then don''t buy the tickets to go away. Take a leaf out of Smudgers book and stand outside the ground protesting. If you can''t get there because you live away then bombard the club with letters, emails or phone calls to make your voice heard. But also let those of us who want to carry on supporting the club do it.

 

[/quote]

I think the point was not that the SCG should be abandoned but that those 2 members that are also in the NCISA should consider withdrawing from the SCG. If the NCISA formally take up a position that is opposed to the board or pro-change then surely resignation from the SCG is logical. I think people want the NCISA as a force to rally behind precisely because of the close working relationship they have previously enjoyed wth the club. I have a feeling however that protests etc if they do happen will happen without organisation but instead as a natural response to a heavy home defeat...(lose say 3 nil at home to that lot up the A140 and no amount of organistaion would be required)

[nutty nigel 7,528]

Yellow hammer - I didn''t say anything about accepting the current situation and Roosevelt quote is wasted on me. Does it apply to you? What have you done that has "marred your face by dust and sweat and blood"? Is it the strides forward made by the current board over the customer relations through the co-operation of groups like the SCG that is the focus of the fans discontent? Or is it failure to be competetive at the right end of this league that''s the problem? What difference will it make to you if there was no SCG or no dialogue between the club and the fans? Have you been part of John Tilsons admirable effort to find out the feelings of the fans or have you just made suggestions on here that would make no difference to your life whatsoever? Have you spoken to any board members to express your feelings? It''s always someone else who has to "stand up and be counted".

You''re right it is up to everyone to decide what is right for themselves. But that shouldn''t involve making suggestions that can only affect others.

 

SHOFNH - There''s a lot of ifs and buts there. The way I see it is that SCG members are on that committee as individuals and not as representatives of any other organisation they may be on. If they were to withdraw support through the policy of another organisation then they should probably not be on there in the first place. However if they were to withdraw support because they felt they personally couldn''t work with the board that would be a different matter all together. But I don''t believe there are any issues about the work done between the SCG and the club. Have some fans forgotten how issues such as ticketing priorities used to work under the previous regime?  Or perhaps many fans have now never known anything different.

Where I think you are right is that if we remain at the wrong end of the league and there''s an embarrassing home defeat fans will let their frustrations boil over and kick out at the board. And the board should expect nothing else. The buck stops at the top in all cases and even Norwich fans patience will break in the end. It happened over Chase and despite what is claimed the straw that broke the camels back was losing at home to Southend on Boxing Day and looking in danger of being relegated to the third division. The same with Worthington. Grant jumped ship before it happened to him. But in all cases it could be argued that "we went out of the frying pan into the fire". If it''s our destiny it will happen and no petty withdrawing from committees will either speed it up or slow it down. Then when the new regime takes over, which it ultimately will anyway, lets hope they manage to keep hold of the things the current lot have done well and change the things that could have been done better.

 

 

[gazzathegreat 0]

Nutty

I can''t speak for Yellow Hammer, or indeed Heroes, but just for me. I too think the action and effort proposed by Mr Tilson is both timely and will hopefully be constructive. However I can see their points, that NCISA may have to make a stand in the future depending on events.

I imagine a great number of fans share the same frustrations, what can they do to show their displeasure with the way this season is going? I see the SCG as a bit of a red herring to be honest, I am not sure it''s the vehicle to be used for any proposed change. It''s used I understand as a two way communication vehicle between fans and the Board over a range of issues. What slightly disturbs me though is the recent Cullum incident was reported to these people who were then apparently sworn to secrecy, putting them in a difficult position. I know Mr Tilson is a part of this group, maybe he can shed more light on this. I have in the past asked various members of the group to highlight issues for me, and they have. So they are a voice for fans, though I think additional avenues may be required should our season crumble further.

Hopefully we will learn of progress at the AGM Nutty. Of course we don''t know that yet. This is why I will be attending the meeting with Mr Tilson and others tonight, purely as a way to give John some of my opinions and so he can gauge overall opinion of the fans present. It would be nigh impossible to gauge everyone''s reaction at a meeting like this. I suppose the majority reaction is what you can see and hear at the matches themselves, though of course non attending fans don''t get their say.

I have had many chats with Mr Doncaster, spoken to Mr Munby and have questioned the Board at fan forums and have written to Delia in the past. I still feel the need to express my views, and would welcome any avenue to do this. I don''t want to protest Nutty, personally I feel to old to do so and I don''t want to shout personal insults to anyone in particular. Similarly I don''t boo the players or manager - though I don''t show my appreciation either if things are bad. But everyone is different.

As for Chase, for me it was the realisation that Martin O''Neill was leaving that did it for me. I started singing Chase Out at that ill fated Leicester match and boycotted Carrow Road from that moment. It was a horrible experience and I would hate for anyone to have to go through anything like that again, which is why I hope that our points can be put across using dialogue.

NCISA have to canvass all members'' opinions and act accordingly. This will take time and may indicate of course that fans don''t want change, or radical action such as protests. We will have to wait and see.

THere is always the possibility that news of investment may precede any of these events and the AGM is only days away. Stranger things have happened.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

Gazza

Again you reply to my post with a well constructed post that puts mine to shame. But we are in agreement about many things. I too applaud the initiative to sound out opinion. I would be at the meeting tonight if I could but I have other commitments on a Thursday evening that I know John and Kathy understand. However I emailed Kathy earlier in the week with my views as I believe it''s important for fans who care to make sure they are heard at times like this.

I stand by everything I have said about the SCG and I believe it''s initiatives like this that a part of the things the board have done well. Gazza - can you remember what relations were like between the fans and previous boards? Do you agree with the priority schemes in place about ticketing and the other improvements that have been made through the SCG or should we go back to the old days? My issue with YH was about him making suggestions that would effect others and have no bearing on what fans believe the board have done wrong. Your point about what we heard happened between the SCG and the club over the recent Cullum incident is a good one but that then becomes a personal issue for those involved. If it indeed was a matter for them to withdraw their support over then it should have been done at the time and not later just because we lost a few games.

I hope you''re right and I hope we learn more at the AGM but I personally doubt there''s much to learn. The board tell us they are actively seeking investment and a lot of fans don''t believe them. The central issue here is what happened between the board and Peter Cullum. Surely there can be no doubt that contact was made and some kind of offer was on the table. The divide between the fans on this issue is not the need for the investment to take place but the reasons why it didn''t. Most of the hatred and bile thrown at Delia is through a belief that she spurned Cullums offer of investment for selfish reasons. If that''s the case then I could not and would not support the board again. If I could have one question answered at the AGM it would be for them to tell us exactly what happened and why the investment didn''t happen. I remember this time last year watching developements at Southampton and all the talk of investment imminent from that Microsoft guy Paul Allen. All the talk about his yacht being moored there and the investment being days away. But it still hasn''t happened and Southampton are in a worse state than us. Why hasn''t it happened though? I know we shouldn''t be concerned with other clubs but Southampton are a club with a similar stature in the game to us and there can be no doubt they have been seeking investment very publically and actively.

I to have had chats with board members and written to Delia in the past. I will be taking no part in any protest either but if you trace my posts back to the Worthy Out days you will see that I defended him and pointed to what I believed were failings in policy at crucial times during his tenure. Worthy spoke up against these policies many times in public and got ridiculed for it. But there was a man who would always stand up and be counted. But yes Worthy made mistakes too and his days were probably numbered by the time he left.

Yes the ill-fated Leicester game was the turning point for many but the home defeat to Southend and the realisation we could be relegated to the third division just 2 years after winning in Munich was the catalyst for the vocal protests to really take off. And that''s why I agree with SHOFNH.

All fans really want is to feel proud again. I think most fans would be more patient if they felt we could realistically expect to beat half the teams in this league. Unfortunately, despite the false dawns, there are too many days where we don''t believe we could beat anyone in this league. Let''s hope the results or new investmnent happen soon because to be relegated into Division Three amidst animosity and protest would be too much to bear.

 

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

The board tell us they are actively seeking investment and a lot of fans don''t believe them. The central issue here is what happened between the board and Peter Cullum. Surely there can be no doubt that contact was made and some kind of offer was on the table. The divide between the fans on this issue is not the need for the investment to take place but the reasons why it didn''t. Most of the hatred and bile thrown at Delia is through a belief that she spurned Cullums offer of investment for selfish reasons. If that''s the case then I could not and would not support the board again. If I could have one question answered at the AGM it would be for them to tell us exactly what happened and why the investment didn''t happen.

[/quote]For what it''s worth, you perfectly sum up how I feel too. I have no truck wih the view that Delia et al have selfishly run the club for their own personal publicity, financial or other gains, I believe them to be genuine fans doing their best. However, they have appeared to be dismissive of any questionning of the economic and footballing decisions and they have been less than open about board matters such as why the Turners left and what has and continues to go on with future investment including PC. Those factors have riled everyone and though there can conceivably be reasons why disclosure of ongoing negotiations isn''t possible, total bloody silence isn''t on either, especially if combined with a patronising "we know better" attitude!

[TIL 1010 4,737]

Just to clarify the NCISA connections with the SCG.Roy Blower our president is a SCG member,Myself who is NCISA chairman and two others who i will not name without their consent who are paid  up NCISA members.That makes a total of four NCISA members.The two who i have not named post on this board so if they wish to enter into the debate on this thread i am sure they will speak up.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

Face stated:

''The fact is that NCISA is not an organisation that seeks to hold funds, as monies raised are given to the Club (through youth projects, sponsorship of the Assistant Manager etc).''

---------------------------------------------

Does the constitution state that NCISA has to hand over its funds to NCFC?

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]  

Depending on what Delia,Doncaster and Munby say will give a clear indication to all of us about the future of our club.Speculating achieves nothing and i feel acting armed with what is said or not said if more to the point will put the fans in a far stronger position if their voice requires to be heard far louder,far clearer and far more organised.

[/quote]

Well said.

The actions of people connected with NCFC Plc between the AGM and the end of January 2009 will tell us everything we need to know.

[Felixfan 53]

I am a fairly recent member of both the S.C.G  and NCISA and as a shareholder will be attending the A.G.M and asking questions if the opportunity arises. I did manage to raise an issue last year about the failure to replace Martin Hunter and this was widely reported. I have not attended any meetings of NCISA because of my location but I am in touch with several fans in Suffolk/North Essex who seem to reflect the wide variety of views expressed on this site.

[gazzathegreat 0]

Nutty, oh yes, I well remember the relationship between fans and the previous administration (Chase I mean). I remember Mr Bennett being a most cordial man and he always had time for everyone. However Chase openly poured scorn over his dissenters. Do you remember the match where he put the volume of the PA up so no one could hear? I remember him coming out with petty stuff like he would charge NCISA for rubbish left outside the ground after protests and such like. Honestly!!

I too would love to hear at least an outline of the talks/non talks between the Board and Mr Cullum. Without going into detail I am sure the Board can communicate a satisfactory answer to the Shareholders, whether it''s news we want to hear or not. I guess it probably won''t be but they must issue some sort of statement. I still think the whole affair was handled very badly, especially the issues over telling the SCG members and then advising them to keep it to themselves. Strange.

I think setting up the SCG was a masterstroke by Munby. That should tell you all you need to know. Yes of course the group do sterling mundane committee type work, and good for them, but they should not be placed in a situation as they recently were. Nor should any fan, whether they be a shareholder or someone who hasn''t been to the ground for years.

I remember your stance on Nigel and I agreed with much of what you said at the time re the personal nature of some of the protesting, however if this was to repeat itself with Delia and co in place I can see the same thing happening, that is why I won''t be taking part again. I don''t say protests won''t happen though, they will should we continue to have poor results and slip further down the table.

I would like to see some dialogue between Board and fans as to seeking solutions and for them to keep us in the picture. No spin, no patronising columns in the local press. Perhaps some searching questions from the local media, although I suppose that''s just too much to ask.

I would be satisfied if the Board could convince me that they are actively seeking investment, that they will change priorities from off field activities to the team and to keep it real, by saying that I mean stop all the guff and spin, we know we are in trouble, and don''t need it softened up.

Heads out of sand and to try and unite the club again. From Board down to fans. The football side of it will come in time I am sure, but if the Board don''t seek and find solutions to the financial side first we may be too late to save what is left of the football team.

[Daphne 0]

Your friends would seem to reflect the general feeling of the NCISA committee members Felixfan. I can''t say any of us are at the extremes of the spectrum, but we do hold a wide - and conflicting range of views. The only common thread - which unites the committee members, your friends, mine, and the 24,000 odd who consistently turn up at Carrow Rd is the desire for our team to play well and win (or just play better and win, or ...just win!).

I can''t get to Tilly and Kathy''s get together tonight, but will be at the AGM. I am expecting something better than the usual woffle,but am prepared for disappointment - rather like watching Norwich play really!