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bigbear

Hoolahan makes me mad

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Roeder, saying to the press that "I was right", about the substitutions, etc on Saturday.  To be honest, I don''t think he was "right" at all.  I didn''t boo, as I never do, to a Norwich player or team, but the Croft-Bell sub wasn''t the one which made me angry.  It was the Hoolahan sub.  It should have happened at half time or sooner.  He had a terrible game, and yet the only reason he took him, seems just to be down to fitness.  How many times did he get the ball and then give it away again.  Whenever we had a quick break, they gave the ball to him, he went forward 5 yards, then turned backwards, then forwards again, then back again, and then forwards again.  He makes some great donut shapes on the pitch!  By the time he has done that, the entire opposition squad are in position and the move breaks down.  When he did try to get forward, his pass was then pathetic.  Sometimes wehen we did have a decent attack, Bertrand was looking for him on the left hand side, and he would be stranded on the other side of the pitch, does he know where his position is meant to be?  That was the reason why I didn''t think Bertrand had a particularly good game, with a few mis-placed passes at the back, but without a player out there to help him, it was either to put the ball back inside, or to hoof it.  To be fair to him, he had a half decent game against Wolves, but then everyone did.  I would personally be telling Hoolahan, to start bucking his ideas, or I would instantly ship him out.  He works a lot harder than he did at the start of the season, but his all round contribution is dreadful.  Whenever I moan on here about a specific individual, I still hold out the hope that he will turn it around.  I hopehe does become the fan favourite that Roeder said he would be, but I can''t see it at the moment.

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Considering he''s had very little match practice recently i think he put on a good performance in teh first half so shut your trap:)

fishy x

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[quote user="bigbear"]

Roeder, saying to the press that "I was right", about the substitutions, etc on Saturday.  To be honest, I don''t think he was "right" at all.  I didn''t boo, as I never do, to a Norwich player or team, but the Croft-Bell sub wasn''t the one which made me angry.  It was the Hoolahan sub.  It should have happened at half time or sooner.  He had a terrible game, and yet the only reason he took him, seems just to be down to fitness.  How many times did he get the ball and then give it away again.  Whenever we had a quick break, they gave the ball to him, he went forward 5 yards, then turned backwards, then forwards again, then back again, and then forwards again.  He makes some great donut shapes on the pitch!  By the time he has done that, the entire opposition squad are in position and the move breaks down.  When he did try to get forward, his pass was then pathetic.  Sometimes wehen we did have a decent attack, Bertrand was looking for him on the left hand side, and he would be stranded on the other side of the pitch, does he know where his position is meant to be?  That was the reason why I didn''t think Bertrand had a particularly good game, with a few mis-placed passes at the back, but without a player out there to help him, it was either to put the ball back inside, or to hoof it.  To be fair to him, he had a half decent game against Wolves, but then everyone did.  I would personally be telling Hoolahan, to start bucking his ideas, or I would instantly ship him out.  He works a lot harder than he did at the start of the season, but his all round contribution is dreadful.  Whenever I moan on here about a specific individual, I still hold out the hope that he will turn it around.  I hopehe does become the fan favourite that Roeder said he would be, but I can''t see it at the moment.

[/quote]

The trouble when you consistently look/try to do the right thing is that sometimes it doesn''t work then the easiest thing to do then is "get rid quickly"(aka Hoof it) this then passes the responsbility on to others - and gets the moaning local off your back!.- To his credit Wes always trys to do the right thing. People moan when we hoof and moan when we get caught out trying to play. If things work then others want to join in and the team plays well. He''s defensive duties have improved since his earlier appearances so for me he''s getting better and better.

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[quote user="robsonhasscored"]

The trouble when you consistently look/try to do the right thing is that sometimes it doesn''t work then the easiest thing to do then is "get rid quickly"(aka Hoof it) this then passes the responsbility on to others - and gets the moaning local off your back!.- To his credit Wes always trys to do the right thing. People moan when we hoof and moan when we get caught out trying to play. If things work then others want to join in and the team plays well. He''s defensive duties have improved since his earlier appearances so for me he''s getting better and better.

[/quote]Well said, I think he''s improving.  He looks like a midfielder with an eye for a killer pass into the forwards, I can''t remember the last player we had who would try to open up a defence with a clever pass.  Mulryne, probably.  Because of the way he plays and the things he tries, he''s going to get stick from people who expect every pass to come off, but he''ll hopefully learn to live with that and not adjust his game to the "safety first" approach which blights so much Championship football.

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Did we, from 1-0 down, end up winning 2-1?Did Bell play any part in that? Well yes, he was quite creative from the right hand side.In which case, Roeder was right.

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He did make some poor choices and passes, but I thought he was the one who could change the game, he has had hardly any matches of late. He will always be an engima, he will have some outstanding games and some poor games, these poor games will be quite visable.

Croft looked tired and the booing was strange, I think that Hoolahan came inside a lot, but GR knew this when he got him, he will take there right midfielder across with him, which should allow Bertrand to push forward.

We have to trust GR, he see''s the training day in and day out and is paid for this and is a dam sight more qualified than all of us to make any judgement call and at the end of the day we won and we won, I suppose, indirectly or directly by our subsitutions he made. We won......

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[quote user="Canaries in Bed"]

He did make some poor choices and passes, but I thought he was the one who could change the game, he has had hardly any matches of late. He will always be an engima, he will have some outstanding games and some poor games, these poor games will be quite visable.

Croft looked tired and the booing was strange, I think that Hoolahan came inside a lot, but GR knew this when he got him, he will take there right midfielder across with him, which should allow Bertrand to push forward.

We have to trust GR, he see''s the training day in and day out and is paid for this and is a dam sight more qualified than all of us to make any judgement call and at the end of the day we won and we won, I suppose, indirectly or directly by our subsitutions he made. We won......

[/quote]

Agree with that CIB  ...found myself many times on Saturday saying ,''bad luck'' under my breath whilst Carrow Road seemed to be groaning as Hoolahan misplaced another pass.

As you rightly say, he did seem the the one who could change the game.

It''s a bit like the QPR game, only in reverse -look what happened with those (dreadful) substitutions; off went guile, in came physicality ...the one commodity that really couldn''t,wouldn''t & didn''t toptrump a bigger, more physical side.

I don''t understand the clamour for Croft, he''s quick, that''s it. Doesn''t seem to have a footballing head on his shoulders and a very poor end product for a winger. Maybe as a team we lack pace so desperately that this forces his inclusion for some kind of penetration?!

Bell is a better footballer than Croft from what little I''ve seen; more quality, but slower, and we do need to break into advanced positions swiftly so maybe that justifies him.

I guess ?

Anyway, Hoolahan...crap game Saturday, but a very creative fulcrum (1000x more so than our headless road*channel*runner) long may he continue to improve

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I''m glad there are some people who can see what Hoolahan brings to the team; and can appreciate that things arent always going to come off. Although Hoolahan and Huckerby are completely different styled players; you need to have the same level of patience as both are creative players who try to make things happen; with Hucks it was the odd over dribble, with hoolahan its the bad pass; accept it and appreciate when it comes off! Like it did against Wolves when Hoolahan was top quality.

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I though he had a resonable game, certainly he was one of the more "creative" players on the pitch and at least looked like he was willing to pass the ball, fair comment it didnt always work. The player i was probably most dissappointed with even though he scored was sibierski. For someone who was brought to the club as a target man, he spent too much time going to ground and won very little in the air. Fair play he scored but when i think of target man i think of a Iwan Roberts type character!!

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I like Hoolahan. Thank God we do have a player who''s willing to make "mistakes" if that''s what you want to call them. He''s constantly striving for openings, to outwit his opponents and to be honest on Saturday watching him was both interesting and for me anyway, encouraging as I want to see players willing to try and open up play, who are willing to try things and if it goes amiss, to try again.

We have a player who''s not a carbon copy of anyone else. God forbid we actually field anyone in the side with flair. No, he''s not a new hero yet (but that''s not his fault, he''s hardly been in the team enough to consider that yet) but I, as one fan, am impressed that we may have someone who has technique, flair, and importantly intelligence.

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[quote user="Huddy "]I''m glad there are some people who can see what Hoolahan brings to the team; and can appreciate that things arent always going to come off. Although Hoolahan and Huckerby are completely different styled players; you need to have the same level of patience as both are creative players who try to make things happen; with Hucks it was the odd over dribble, with hoolahan its the bad pass; accept it and appreciate when it comes off! Like it did against Wolves when Hoolahan was top quality.[/quote]Well said- Hoolahan has that much needed touch of class, something we need. He will sometime play 10/10 sometime 4/10, if you want a regular 6/10 player then play Pattison.

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[quote user="hurricane"]

The player i was probably most dissappointed with even though he scored was sibierski. For someone who was brought to the club as a target man, he spent too much time going to ground and won very little in the air. Fair play he scored but when i think of target man i think of a Iwan Roberts type character!![/quote]

Except he''s an attacking centre midfielder mate.

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[quote user="bigbear"]

Roeder, saying to the press that "I was right", about the substitutions, etc on Saturday.  To be honest, I don''t think he was "right" at all.  I didn''t boo, as I never do, to a Norwich player or team, but the Croft-Bell sub wasn''t the one which made me angry.  It was the Hoolahan sub.  It should have happened at half time or sooner.  He had a terrible game, and yet the only reason he took him, seems just to be down to fitness.  How many times did he get the ball and then give it away again.  Whenever we had a quick break, they gave the ball to him, he went forward 5 yards, then turned backwards, then forwards again, then back again, and then forwards again.  He makes some great donut shapes on the pitch!  By the time he has done that, the entire opposition squad are in position and the move breaks down.  When he did try to get forward, his pass was then pathetic.  Sometimes wehen we did have a decent attack, Bertrand was looking for him on the left hand side, and he would be stranded on the other side of the pitch, does he know where his position is meant to be?  That was the reason why I didn''t think Bertrand had a particularly good game, with a few mis-placed passes at the back, but without a player out there to help him, it was either to put the ball back inside, or to hoof it.  To be fair to him, he had a half decent game against Wolves, but then everyone did.  I would personally be telling Hoolahan, to start bucking his ideas, or I would instantly ship him out.  He works a lot harder than he did at the start of the season, but his all round contribution is dreadful.  Whenever I moan on here about a specific individual, I still hold out the hope that he will turn it around.  I hopehe does become the fan favourite that Roeder said he would be, but I can''t see it at the moment.

[/quote]

B*****ks! I think the problem fans have with Hoolahan is they are expecting him to do the things that Huckerby did. I think Hoolahan is far to inteligent for our team sometimes, he beats people with his incredible skill, unlike Hucks did with his pace. Hoolahan does drift inside alot, but that is what creates the openings and space for other players to come into, plus it''s a nightmare to mark against those sort of roaming players! Wes had a couple of wayward passes on Saturday and Ithink thats all fans remember!

 

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[quote user="bigbear"]

Roeder, saying to the press that "I was right", about the substitutions, etc on Saturday.  To be honest, I don''t think he was "right" at all.  I didn''t boo, as I never do, to a Norwich player or team, but the Croft-Bell sub wasn''t the one which made me angry.  It was the Hoolahan sub.  It should have happened at half time or sooner.  He had a terrible game, and yet the only reason he took him, seems just to be down to fitness.  How many times did he get the ball and then give it away again.  Whenever we had a quick break, they gave the ball to him, he went forward 5 yards, then turned backwards, then forwards again, then back again, and then forwards again.  He makes some great donut shapes on the pitch!  By the time he has done that, the entire opposition squad are in position and the move breaks down.  When he did try to get forward, his pass was then pathetic.  Sometimes wehen we did have a decent attack, Bertrand was looking for him on the left hand side, and he would be stranded on the other side of the pitch, does he know where his position is meant to be?  That was the reason why I didn''t think Bertrand had a particularly good game, with a few mis-placed passes at the back, but without a player out there to help him, it was either to put the ball back inside, or to hoof it.  To be fair to him, he had a half decent game against Wolves, but then everyone did.  I would personally be telling Hoolahan, to start bucking his ideas, or I would instantly ship him out.  He works a lot harder than he did at the start of the season, but his all round contribution is dreadful.  Whenever I moan on here about a specific individual, I still hold out the hope that he will turn it around.  I hopehe does become the fan favourite that Roeder said he would be, but I can''t see it at the moment.

[/quote]

Not quite sure which match you were watching on Saturday cos it definitely wasn''t the one I saw at Carrow Road as far as Hoolahan is concerned (first half anyway)! Read Gazza The Great''s comments on this thread for a spot on analysis of Hoolahan. Ax someone else has remarked, the problem is that Hoolahan is a step ahead of the rest of the team in terms of quality on the ball and intelligence. ''Ship him out'' - what!! And then lose the last remaining bit of quality we have in a yellow shirt!

Sure he can be annoying but so was the great God Huckerby, or have we forgotten the number of times Hucks would drift past one, drift pass two, then oops, lost the ball or been tackled yet 99% of the crowd thought he was George Best, Pele and Johann Cruyff all rolled into one!      

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roedy brought hooley cos he destroyed us at carra rd last term - and without doubt he was a star performer for blackpool - the boy has taken time to settle, but clearly has talent - and if we have a strong and resolute middle, then imo hooly on the left, and bell on the right have spades of creativity and quality between ''em,,,and could well open up teams for fun, meaning we can start scoring goals and winning games, like our last 2 matches,,,if roedy wants to keep it tighter, then he''sgot croft and matty patty who will run and harry the opposition all day - but what do they actually create going forward???matty hasn''t scored in 30 odd games, and crofty has only recently realised he has the ability too - if he gets into the area enough...

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I just think he''s trying too hard , he has so much natural ability that given time i am convinced he will prove a terrific player for us .

Lets just not expect man of the match performances every game just YET , but i am sure they will come in the not to distant future and then we could really attack those play off places ?

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Hoolahan is bleedin useless... he strolls around the pitch like a little lost schoolboy, gives the ball away cheaply 90% of the time and is always caught out of position.

If Roeder doesn''t know what his best position is then this is partly down to him.

The sign of a quality player is somebody who does not give the ball away cheaply.

 

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He is a very good footballer but his end product was non-existent on Saturday. He looked comfortable on the ball and his dribbling was good, but I can''t remember him making a pass that led to a chance, or having a decent shot himself. If he can get a final product out of him then we should have a decent player.

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I''m afraid he was the worst player on the pitch by a long-way tonight. IMO he was very lucky to last until half-time.

Unlike someone else said it''s the not the case of looking for a scape-goat. Playing away from home he offered no support for Bertrand, strayed inside but without any physical presence and tred to often to apply a tight pass or dummy when we were struggling to hold any possession. He''s a clever player, but there''s a time and a place and i don''t think 2-0 down away from home is it.

To be fair Crofty and Russell were shocking in the first half too but Croft in particular impressed after haf time, and Bell seemed strong. Excusing one blip Matty Pattison proved v solid and shored up the struggling midfield.

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You may think people were quick to criticise Hoolahan on the back of Saturday''s performance, but believe me tonight was worse. Smudger''s description above was spot on for tonight''s performance. You''d have thought they had left the Norwich matchday mascot to run around the pitch for the first half, if you didn''t know who Hoolahan was.

Out of position? I dont buy that one!

Out of his depth?...possibly!

Out of the next starting line-up? ...hopefully!

 

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