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Duffman

Well said Glenn Roeder

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[quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="Duffman"]http://www.pinkun.com/content/ncfc/story.aspx?brand=PINKUNOnline&category=Norwich&tBrand=PinkUnOnline&tCategory=Norwich&itemid=NOED27%20Oct%202008%2010%3A06%3A32%3A180

Said the same things myself on saturday night when people started to moan at taking Doc and Crofty off.    


[/quote]

 

Spot on. I thought his decision making was excellent.

[/quote] agree 100% i was baffled at the booing when croft went off. it is only a matter of time before Bell makes that slot his own anyway, despite some improved form lately Roeder doesent really rate Croft.

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Think he''s deliberately missing the point, personally.

Everyone could see we had nothing down the left side because Hoolahan was going missing (plus Clingan and Russell were failing to produce in midfield).

Luckily for Glenn he got out of jail with the two goals, which didn''t have all that much to do with the changes he made.

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Yep.  I expect Bell to start tomorrow night at Derby.  Maybe even chuck JK on and bench Doherty.     Nothing against him but he is still prone to mistakes (the free kick to Wolves which lead to their first goal) and I know everyone makes them but Doherty always seems to make costly ones.    I would build him up slowly because he has missed alot of football in the last 6 months.

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Agree with you GJP, I was expecting Bell to replace Wes "I can''t stay on the left wing" Hoolahan, and whilst I didn''t boo, I can understand the frustration.

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I was dissapointed to see Crofty taken off (didn''t boo though, obviously) but well done to GR as we won the game.

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[quote user="Matt Juler"]

Agree with you GJP, I was expecting Bell to replace Wes "I can''t stay on the left wing" Hoolahan, and whilst I didn''t boo, I can understand the frustration.

[/quote]

Indeed, he got it wrong and he got away with it. It happens.

Don''t blame him for trying to credit himself though, he''s the manager and he''s got to look like he''s in control.

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[quote user="GJP"][quote user="Matt Juler"]

Agree with you GJP, I was expecting Bell to replace Wes "I can''t stay on the left wing" Hoolahan, and whilst I didn''t boo, I can understand the frustration.

[/quote]

Indeed, he got it wrong and he got away with it. It happens.

Don''t blame him for trying to credit himself though, he''s the manager and he''s got to look like he''s in control.

[/quote]

I do blame him for trying to credit himself!! It''s a really ugly streak to his personality - i never liked his attitude when he was at WHU or Newcastle and i still don''t. And he doesn''t half go on sometimes.

"oh, i don''t want to make a big thing of it but, blah blah blah, i''m the greatest anyway, i''m right, you''re wrong" and he goes and makes a huge thing about it!! He''s always doing that.

And it should have been obvious to him why some of the crowd were booing when he took Croft off. He was our ONLY attacking outlet when he was on the pitch. Long balls to Sibs weren''t working or getting through to Lita, Hoolahoop was all over the place, Russell (was he on the pitch?) and the full backs were cut off by them packing the midfield. Croft was getting in to threatening positions at least and seeing plenty of the ball. The change worked because we went 4-3-3 with Cureton and it made us play down the middle. Sibs is far more effective with direct balls than angled ones. Bell''s a decent player who i think will nudge out Croft but on Saturday he had nothing to do with the goals.

But hey, we don''t have to like the manager, he just has to take the team and the club forward. He seems to be doing that. Gradually. I''d dislike him even more if he was manager of one of our rivals!

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I was amazed when I heard the boos at the game - Croft looked knackered and needed a rest; imo Bell is a better player in any case and it should really just be a matter of time before he makes the position his own (for starters, his crossing alone is 100% better) - but, equally, if Croft can keep him out by playing well then all well and good - such competition for starting places is what you need all over the pitch. 

Of course, had Roeder replaced Hoolahan with Bell I have no doubt that we would have had the same old criticism being levelled at Roeder of playing players out of position.  It really does seem to be the same old case of someone not being in able to win whatever he did - but for me he got it right, and I said so at the time.

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Very good posts GJP. I was very much under the assumption that booing wasn''t so much for taking Croft off, it was for leaving Hoolahan on.

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For what it''s worth, I thought both Hoolahan and Bell were equally unproductive. Unfortunately, ignorant fans seem to like Croft (why I don''t know, the lad has done nothing to earn the favour of the fans) and seem to have something against Hoolahan because of whom he has replaced.

We need to actually trust Roeder and let him do what he thinks is best.

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[quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"]

For what it''s worth, I thought both Hoolahan and Bell were equally unproductive. Unfortunately, ignorant fans seem to like Croft (why I don''t know, the lad has done nothing to earn the favour of the fans) and seem to have something against Hoolahan because of whom he has replaced.

We need to actually trust Roeder and let him do what he thinks is best.

[/quote]I think everyone here really wants to like Hoolahan, he was our big signing of the summer, expectation was huge. He''s just been so disappointing so far apart from the Wolves game, where he''s shown us all what he can do, he just need him to produce that on a far more regular basis.I can understand why people like Croft, I have nothing against him, but wouldn''t call him one of my favourite players or anything. He gives his all, he seems to work very hard on and off the pitch, has fantastic determination to get in the team when he''s out of favour, he really fights for his place, which is just what you want. On the pitch, he runs at people and on his day he can be a real threat and an asset to us. I think at the moment though, he will be more use to us coming off the bench towards the end of games to run at defenders as they''re tiring, if Bell isn''t doing the business.

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Roeder''s right not to want to make a big deal of it - just a shame he has! Fans will always make their feelings known and so long as we''re not at the cheering opposition goals level (v QPR with Worthy) that''s good and he should accept it rather than turn in to an 11 year old over it.

Try this Glenn:

"I noted some of the fans reactions over the Croft substitution and accept their right to voice their opinion. He was working his socks off and getting in good positions but he was also tiring and i wanted fresh legs. I made the decision as i''m paid to do and fortunately we ended up winning the game."

THAT would be not making a big deal of it.

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Personally I couldn''t understand the booing.

I am a big Lee Croft fan, but he had been quiet and looked tired, whereas Hoolahan, albeit in the first half, had looked like a constant threat. Anyway, Roeder was proved right, and hopefully we won''t see that kind of reaction to a substitution again for a while!

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GJP and JTG - that''s the problem with booing substitutions, it''s too ambiguous and therefore not a very good way of making a point. Best left for situations when it is absolutely clear who or what is being booed. 

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“And if you want to get to the nitty-gritty, the bottom line is the decisions I made were right because we won the game. That''s the bottom line.”

Given this quotation by GR I want to get down to the nitty - gritty and say that based on this season''s results , Glen, making the right decisions isn''t what you do that often because you''ve under-achieved this season losing more than you''ve won.

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[quote user="a1canary"]Roeder''s right not to want to make a big deal of it - just a shame he has! Fans will always make their feelings known and so long as we''re not at the cheering opposition goals level (v QPR with Worthy) that''s good and he should accept it rather than turn in to an 11 year old over it. Try this Glenn: "I noted some of the fans reactions over the Croft substitution and accept their right to voice their opinion. He was working his socks off and getting in good positions but he was also tiring and i wanted fresh legs. I made the decision as i''m paid to do and fortunately we ended up winning the game." THAT would be not making a big deal of it.[/quote]

I hope I never here a Norwich manager say fortunately we ended up winning.

Only last week he was being slated on here for saying we had been unlucky this season. It seems fans expect him to say we are lucky if we pull a result out of the hat and yet say we deserve to lose if the opposition do that to us.

I have seen the majority of games this season and up to last Tuesday virtually nothing went for us. This last week fortunes changed  in our favour but we still had a further two penalty decisions go against us.

 

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Cobblers.  Croft looked no more tired than anyone else.  The weak link was Hoolahan drifting in and getting knocked off the ball.  Bell on for Hoolahan would have given us more width.Wrong decision.[quote user="Duffman"]http://www.pinkun.com/content/ncfc/story.aspx?brand=PINKUNOnline&category=Norwich&tBrand=PinkUnOnline&tCategory=Norwich&itemid=NOED27%20Oct%202008%2010%3A06%3A32%3A180Said the same things myself on saturday night when people started to moan at taking Doc and Crofty off.    

[/quote]

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Personally I think Roeder is making a rod for his own back. He always comes across all holier than thou and totally up himself - He is basically saying ''I''m cleverer than all you idiots in the stand so shut it''. He has some sort of superiority complex that will not endear him to the fans. He even goes so far as to claim that his decisions were right cos we won. Well maybe we would have scored 3 if Croft stayed on. Who knows? This means that when things turn bad the fans will be straight on his back (as they have been before the last 2 games) and he will not get any sympathy.

I''m not saying that the decision to take off Croft was right or wrong. I''m not even saying that Roeder is a bad manager. I am somewhat indifferent to him and that is because I dont like his personality and that is what will end up being his downfall. The fact is that a manager who earns the favour of the crowd is generally a good thing. It means the fans get behind him and the team more quickly when things go well and means they are slower to attack him when things dont go so well. That can only help team spirit and morale. I think A1canary got it pretty much spot on as to what Roeder should have said. Roeder needs to be far cleverer with the things he comes out and says in order to get people on his side. If he deals with the players in a similar way to how he comments on the fans they must be pretty fed up alot of the time.

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Yep - thats why there was booing.  We wanted the drifting midget off.[quote user="JTG"]Very good posts GJP. I was very much under the assumption that booing wasn''t so much for taking Croft off, it was for leaving Hoolahan on.[/quote]

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I was also amazed at the booing, Croft was very good for the first 20 minutes without really producing a telling ball apart from the one that Russell miskicked but after that was largely anonymous. Bell produced more telling crosses in the 20 minutes he was on than Croft did all afternoon. I like Croft for his hard work and determination but he really frustrates me how he so often fails to deliver the final ball.

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That''s just nit picking nutty. Ok, remove the ''fortunately'' - the point i was simply making is that he has made to big an issue of the croft-boo thing even when he said he didn''t want to. He could have dealt with it much more easily by saying something like the above, and accepting that fans will voice their opinions in a game. It''s all starting to sound a bit like the Worthington ''fans are talking rubbish'' episode, and i, and i''m sure you, would strongly advise against him taking that route.

Plus, that''s nonsense about people slating him for saying we deserved to lose when we didn''t. Find me one person who thinks we deserved to lose to cov or bristol or not to win v brum.

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[quote user="renegade tootsie"]Cobblers.  Croft looked no more tired than anyone else.  The weak link was Hoolahan drifting in and getting knocked off the ball.  Bell on for Hoolahan would have given us more width.

Wrong decision.

[quote user="Duffman"]http://www.pinkun.com/content/ncfc/story.aspx?brand=PINKUNOnline&category=Norwich&tBrand=PinkUnOnline&tCategory=Norwich&itemid=NOED27%20Oct%202008%2010%3A06%3A32%3A180

Said the same things myself on saturday night when people started to moan at taking Doc and Crofty off.    


[/quote][/quote]

 

How was it the wrong decision, we won the match!

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To be honest with you a1 - I was amazed at the booing. I thought it was obvious that if Bell was brought on it would be Croft who was replaced. And I didn''t see it as a statement that Croft was poor. You mentioned Worthy - well he regularly subbed Rivers, when he tired, with Notman. It worked then too. Wide players who are up and down all game do tire.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

To be honest with you a1 - I was amazed at the booing. I thought it was obvious that if Bell was brought on it would be Croft who was replaced. And I didn''t see it as a statement that Croft was poor. You mentioned Worthy - well he regularly subbed Rivers, when he tired, with Notman. It worked then too. Wide players who are up and down all game do tire.

 

[/quote]agreed, bell is a straight swop for croft - so i was not surprised, nor did i think it was unwarranted - i agree with what roedy said - croft wasn''t producing and putting bell on for 30 mins toimprove his match fitness and also give the team alift was necessary,,,after missing 5 games, hooley worked hard tues nite and first half and had well and unsurprisingly shot his bolt by second half - he started to drunkenly sway onto the other wing, and deserved to be pulled off imo...

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