Roeder Out Banner!

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="Arturo Whittoli"]

I clearly dont "have the guts" wiz old chum as i wont be following you on this one. My opinion of the board has nothing to do with Roeder. At the end of the day he can only do so much on what little funds he was given, with the last transfer being paid for by Carl Moore.

Sorry mate but you will have to call me gutless, besides are you only doing this because hes not been kind to Jamie Cureton?

[/quote]I''ve been waiting for that one Arturo.

But try league results and position, useless crap loanee signings played ahead of our lads and out of postsion! oh, and wacky substitutions too for some clues![:|]

[/quote]

But wiz, we needed a whole new squad more or less and the money wasnt there to buy a whole team of decent players. He can only work with what hes given. Blame the board if you want to blame anyone mate.

[Steve H 0]

8 off hand I think.

But when was the last time we had 4 CB''s, 2LB''s and 3RB''s. We have added strength in depth by using loans you can''t disagree that the likes of Kennedy, Lupoli and Omosuzi add something.

True there have been some poor loans like Gibbs, Henry, Sibierski, Lita and the lad from Spurs, but not every signing will work out even Wenger & Ferguson make signings that don''t work out.

For the record I think the signings of Clingan & Stefanovic are decent, Pattison is reasonable imo. The loans of Kennedy, Bertrand, Evans, Taylor have all been worth a lot to us.

Building for something means you won''t get instant gratification which is sadly what some more vocal City fans seem to want.

 

 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Steve H"]

Namecalling... Your the one refering to people as gutless.

I''d call you a hypocrite but I think you''d probably start crying and not speak to me again.

[/quote]Giggle, I really must stop laghing at some posters, chortle, he he ha ha![:D][:D]

[Steve H 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="Steve H"]

Namecalling... Your the one refering to people as gutless.

I''d call you a hypocrite but I think you''d probably start crying and not speak to me again.

[/quote]Giggle, I really must stop laghing at some posters, chortle, he he ha ha![:D][:D][/quote]

What you don''t see that you are hypocrite by calling people gutless and the whinging about namecalling.

I''m not laughing at you more feeling a touch sorry for you.

 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Steve H"]

8 off hand I think.

But when was the last time we had 4 CB''s, 2LB''s and 3RB''s. We have added strength in depth by using loans you can''t disagree that the likes of Kennedy, Lupoli and Omosuzi add something.

True there have been some poor loans like Gibbs, Henry, Sibierski, Lita and the lad from Spurs, but not every signing will work out even Wenger & Ferguson make signings that don''t work out.

For the record I think the signings of Clingan & Stefanovic are decent, Pattison is reasonable imo. The loans of Kennedy, Bertrand, Evans, Taylor have all been worth a lot to us.

Building for something means you won''t get instant gratification which is sadly what some more vocal City fans seem to want.

 

 

[/quote]Okay, I''ll be serious Steve, can we wait for a 3 year plan? by then, in my opinion, we could well be a league 2 side! I agree the Board has to go., but Roeder is just as guilty now in my eyes.

[John 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="Steve H"]

I''ll acknowlede your post John.

I think your talking sense.

We''ve already had to pay off the dross that Worty signed like Robinson, Jarrett & Thorne etc, We then had to pay off Worthington.

Then it was Grant, fair play he walked and saved us some money but we had to pay off his dross like Brellier, Murray and Strihavka.

If we do this again where will we stand, we won''t have to pay many players off because many are loans, then again we only got those loans because of whoo Roeder knows.

This season is a building season. Roeder has a three year plan and I presume He plans on picking up more free players like Clingan next May and more Bargain players like Stefanovic, these things take time.

I agree that some games have been harsh, others we have got what we deserved for our shortcomings. Our injurys have been an absoulte B*tch.

[/quote]A building season eh?.

How many loanees?

[/quote]The loans are poor, I''ll admit that much. However the limit on Roeders funds has pushed him to resort to these measures.But like Steve H said, getting players in on the cheap, or on bosman free transfers can work. It can be very effective, and you can get very good players like that.Hull are an example (maybe there are better ones) of a team that have thrived on a team built from cheap or free players. That''s the direction I''m sure Roeder will be pursuing over the next 2 or 3 years, and it really can pull off if you have the right scouts on the lookout for cheap, but good talent.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="John"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="Steve H"]

I''ll acknowlede your post John.

I think your talking sense.

We''ve already had to pay off the dross that Worty signed like Robinson, Jarrett & Thorne etc, We then had to pay off Worthington.

Then it was Grant, fair play he walked and saved us some money but we had to pay off his dross like Brellier, Murray and Strihavka.

If we do this again where will we stand, we won''t have to pay many players off because many are loans, then again we only got those loans because of whoo Roeder knows.

This season is a building season. Roeder has a three year plan and I presume He plans on picking up more free players like Clingan next May and more Bargain players like Stefanovic, these things take time.

I agree that some games have been harsh, others we have got what we deserved for our shortcomings. Our injurys have been an absoulte B*tch.

[/quote]A building season eh?.

How many loanees?

[/quote]

The loans are poor, I''ll admit that much. However the limit on Roeders funds has pushed him to resort to these measures.

But like Steve H said, getting players in on the cheap, or on bosman free transfers can work. It can be very effective, and you can get very good players like that.

Hull are an example (maybe there are better ones) of a team that have thrived on a team built from cheap or free players. That''s the direction I''m sure Roeder will be pursuing over the next 2 or 3 years, and it really can pull off if you have the right scouts on the lookout for cheap, but good talent.
[/quote]If Roeder''s here for the next 2-3 years John, we''ll be a non league side!.

[Steve H 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="Steve H"]

8 off hand I think.

But when was the last time we had 4 CB''s, 2LB''s and 3RB''s. We have added strength in depth by using loans you can''t disagree that the likes of Kennedy, Lupoli and Omosuzi add something.

True there have been some poor loans like Gibbs, Henry, Sibierski, Lita and the lad from Spurs, but not every signing will work out even Wenger & Ferguson make signings that don''t work out.

For the record I think the signings of Clingan & Stefanovic are decent, Pattison is reasonable imo. The loans of Kennedy, Bertrand, Evans, Taylor have all been worth a lot to us.

Building for something means you won''t get instant gratification which is sadly what some more vocal City fans seem to want.

 

 

[/quote]Okay, I''ll be serious Steve, can we wait for a 3 year plan? by then, in my opinion, we could well be a league 2 side! I agree the Board has to go., but Roeder is just as guilty now in my eyes.[/quote]

Ok here we go.

I don''t think we have any choice but to see if Roeder can make us stable in 3 yeras and own some quality assets. It really is a horrible situation to be in but it is where we are.

We can protest all we want but we can''t force someone into buying us can we?

We have no money to back Roeder because we backed Worthington then Grant and we backed them well, Roeder knows quality when he see''s it imo, the problem is as things stand he can only borrow it when he see''s it rather than buy it.

For me the boards main mistakes have been.

a).  Not freeing up the money used to buy Ashton at the start of the Prem campaign.

b). Not ditching Worthy after our poor first year back in the Championship.

c). For having anything to do with Peter Grant, genuine though he was he was not suitable in anyway.

 

[Two Tails 0]

I would not be so bothered about our league position if we was playing our own youngsters instead of blooding other teams players.

[Two Tails 0]

Oh and I dont know how to get my banner to work, i just pasted the link in my sig, is there something else I need to do to make it work?

[John 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="John"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="Steve H"]

I''ll acknowlede your post John.

I think your talking sense.

We''ve already had to pay off the dross that Worty signed like Robinson, Jarrett & Thorne etc, We then had to pay off Worthington.

Then it was Grant, fair play he walked and saved us some money but we had to pay off his dross like Brellier, Murray and Strihavka.

If we do this again where will we stand, we won''t have to pay many players off because many are loans, then again we only got those loans because of whoo Roeder knows.

This season is a building season. Roeder has a three year plan and I presume He plans on picking up more free players like Clingan next May and more Bargain players like Stefanovic, these things take time.

I agree that some games have been harsh, others we have got what we deserved for our shortcomings. Our injurys have been an absoulte B*tch.

[/quote]A building season eh?.

How many loanees?

[/quote]The loans are poor, I''ll admit that much. However the limit on Roeders funds has pushed him to resort to these measures.But like Steve H said, getting players in on the cheap, or on bosman free transfers can work. It can be very effective, and you can get very good players like that.Hull are an example (maybe there are better ones) of a team that have thrived on a team built from cheap or free players. That''s the direction I''m sure Roeder will be pursuing over the next 2 or 3 years, and it really can pull off if you have the right scouts on the lookout for cheap, but good talent.[/quote]If Roeder''s here for the next 2-3 years John, we''ll be a non league side!.[/quote]Wiz, i may have to stop talking to you, because your being very irrational and pessimistic.How many League 2 and 1 teams have a side that could of done what we did to Plymouth? How many could of beat Sheffield United? How many could of outplayed Coventry away so heavily? How many could of outplayed Birmingham so heavily?We''re simply not League 2, let alone League 1 material, and to think otherwise means your being unnecessarily pessimistic.We haven''t been ridiculously bad this season as a team. We''re not out of place in this league. If we were, we would of been heavily beaten by someone at least by the first 10 to 11 games.We''re just below what we should be. Much of those draws, 1-0, and 2-0 results against us could easily of been converted to wins if we were putting in that little bit extra that we have in reserve. We''re still not doing it, but when confidence builds that little bit, you''ll be surprised how much difference it makes in the bigger picture.However, until we "click", and while we''re still suffering from injury and confidence problems, every game will be a bit of an up hill struggle. But that confidence will come, make no doubt about it, we just need a run without many injuries and a bit of stability in the side first for that to happen.

[Steve H 0]

[quote user="John"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="Steve H"]

I''ll acknowlede your post John.

I think your talking sense.

We''ve already had to pay off the dross that Worty signed like Robinson, Jarrett & Thorne etc, We then had to pay off Worthington.

Then it was Grant, fair play he walked and saved us some money but we had to pay off his dross like Brellier, Murray and Strihavka.

If we do this again where will we stand, we won''t have to pay many players off because many are loans, then again we only got those loans because of whoo Roeder knows.

This season is a building season. Roeder has a three year plan and I presume He plans on picking up more free players like Clingan next May and more Bargain players like Stefanovic, these things take time.

I agree that some games have been harsh, others we have got what we deserved for our shortcomings. Our injurys have been an absoulte B*tch.

[/quote]A building season eh?.

How many loanees?

[/quote]

The loans are poor, I''ll admit that much. However the limit on Roeders funds has pushed him to resort to these measures.

But like Steve H said, getting players in on the cheap, or on bosman free transfers can work. It can be very effective, and you can get very good players like that.

Hull are an example (maybe there are better ones) of a team that have thrived on a team built from cheap or free players. That''s the direction I''m sure Roeder will be pursuing over the next 2 or 3 years, and it really can pull off if you have the right scouts on the lookout for cheap, but good talent.
[/quote]

Not all the loans are poor but some are.

Kennedy is a great loan Lupoli could be if we got him the ball and gave him the chances he needs.

Lita is pointless as he has no sharpness and we only have him for a month, one of those weekends was lost to internationals, by the time he sharp again He will be back at Reading. Sibierski is poor because we need a physical target man which he isn''t but we still seem to be asking that of him. The lad from Spurs is pointless because we haven''t seen him when we should have i.e when all the other CB''s were injured.

There are some great free transfers out there and some great sub 500,000 pound ones as well, you just need a manager who can spot them and persuade them into coming and I think over the course of time Roeder can do this. It takes time though.

[Rupethebear 0]

So how do we afford the compensation, we haven''t got money for players let alone enough to pay off the boss, give him a transfer budget then judge him!!!

[John 0]

[quote user="Steve H"][quote user="John"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="Steve H"]

I''ll acknowlede your post John.

I think your talking sense.

We''ve already had to pay off the dross that Worty signed like Robinson, Jarrett & Thorne etc, We then had to pay off Worthington.

Then it was Grant, fair play he walked and saved us some money but we had to pay off his dross like Brellier, Murray and Strihavka.

If we do this again where will we stand, we won''t have to pay many players off because many are loans, then again we only got those loans because of whoo Roeder knows.

This season is a building season. Roeder has a three year plan and I presume He plans on picking up more free players like Clingan next May and more Bargain players like Stefanovic, these things take time.

I agree that some games have been harsh, others we have got what we deserved for our shortcomings. Our injurys have been an absoulte B*tch.

[/quote]A building season eh?.

How many loanees?

[/quote]The loans are poor, I''ll admit that much. However the limit on Roeders funds has pushed him to resort to these measures.But like Steve H said, getting players in on the cheap, or on bosman free transfers can work. It can be very effective, and you can get very good players like that.Hull are an example (maybe there are better ones) of a team that have thrived on a team built from cheap or free players. That''s the direction I''m sure Roeder will be pursuing over the next 2 or 3 years, and it really can pull off if you have the right scouts on the lookout for cheap, but good talent.[/quote]

Not all the loans are poor but some are.

Kennedy is a great loan Lupoli could be if we got him the ball and gave him the chances he needs.

Lita is pointless as he has no sharpness and we only have him for a month, one of those weekends was lost to internationals, by the time he sharp again He will be back at Reading. Sibierski is poor because we need a physical target man which he isn''t but we still seem to be asking that of him. The lad from Spurs is pointless because we haven''t seen him when we should have i.e when all the other CB''s were injured.

There are some great free transfers out there and some great sub 500,000 pound ones as well, you just need a manager who can spot them and persuade them into coming and I think over the course of time Roeder can do this. It takes time though.

[/quote]Totally agree with all of that Steve.I don''t mean to bemoan all the loans Roeder has brought in. In fact many of them have been superb in keeping the club afloat. Without the system, we wouldn''t of had Taylor, Evans or Bertrand last season. And without them i struggle to see how we could of survived.They have been useful. My frustration with it is that i think we seem to of become a little over reliant on the loan system. I''m happy to have 4-5 loans, to cover up holes in the side, but when it gets to 8, and when about half are out of form, on the bench or out of the squad, are having wages paid yet are doing little more than only training with the side at Colney, it shows up the problems and issues of having too many. It puts the club in an unnecessary financial position. However i realise it''s a gamble, and we''re yet to see the finalised impacts of Henville, Omuzusi and such on the pitch.But it is the free transfers and cheap players that really interest me. So many good, over achieving, modern sides have been built upon that sort of function and structure, and i believe that is the system we should be taking advantage from, and not the loan system. The only problem with it, is that it requires patience, but i feel Roeder is going to use this system to effect over the next few years. He showed that with Clingan and Stefanovic, and now i really think they can now become part of the spine of the team.We just need to let Roeder have time to develop the side. We can''t be impatient, and impose instabillity, or our ambitions simply won''t pay off.

[corbs 0]

No doubt many at Man U wanted Fergie out after his poor start!

[O.T.B.C 0]

[quote user="John"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="John"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="Steve H"]

I''ll acknowlede your post John.

I think your talking sense.

We''ve already had to pay off the dross that Worty signed like Robinson, Jarrett & Thorne etc, We then had to pay off Worthington.

Then it was Grant, fair play he walked and saved us some money but we had to pay off his dross like Brellier, Murray and Strihavka.

If we do this again where will we stand, we won''t have to pay many players off because many are loans, then again we only got those loans because of whoo Roeder knows.

This season is a building season. Roeder has a three year plan and I presume He plans on picking up more free players like Clingan next May and more Bargain players like Stefanovic, these things take time.

I agree that some games have been harsh, others we have got what we deserved for our shortcomings. Our injurys have been an absoulte B*tch.

[/quote]A building season eh?.

How many loanees?

[/quote]

The loans are poor, I''ll admit that much. However the limit on Roeders funds has pushed him to resort to these measures.

But like Steve H said, getting players in on the cheap, or on bosman free transfers can work. It can be very effective, and you can get very good players like that.

Hull are an example (maybe there are better ones) of a team that have thrived on a team built from cheap or free players. That''s the direction I''m sure Roeder will be pursuing over the next 2 or 3 years, and it really can pull off if you have the right scouts on the lookout for cheap, but good talent.
[/quote]If Roeder''s here for the next 2-3 years John, we''ll be a non league side!.[/quote]

Wiz, i may have to stop talking to you, because your being very irrational and pessimistic.

How many League 2 and 1 teams have a side that could of done what we did to Plymouth? How many could of beat Sheffield United? How many could of outplayed Coventry away so heavily? How many could of outplayed Birmingham so heavily?

We''re simply not League 2, let alone League 1 material, and to think otherwise means your being unnecessarily pessimistic.

We haven''t been ridiculously bad this season as a team. We''re not out of place in this league. If we were, we would of been heavily beaten by someone at least by the first 10 to 11 games.

We''re just below what we should be. Much of those draws, 1-0, and 2-0 results against us could easily of been converted to wins if we were putting in that little bit extra that we have in reserve. We''re still not doing it, but when confidence builds that little bit, you''ll be surprised how much difference it makes in the bigger picture.

However, until we "click", and while we''re still suffering from injury and confidence problems, every game will be a bit of an up hill struggle. But that confidence will come, make no doubt about it, we just need a run without many injuries and a bit of stability in the side first for that to happen.
[/quote]

Very well said mate. We know that all the loans have not been successful but we don''t have the money or the depth of youth to play them. Don''t tell me Martin, Spillane, Jarvis and others are good enough, because they have shown that they are not. Getting them away on loan is great for them and it will show them that they have a future and that they are lucky to be at a club like ours. I do think that we could have got a few bosman frees, there are some quality freebies or at least ones who could do a job out there, we would not get to see players like Kennedy, Bertie and Lupo. I think 4 in the squad is enough.

I have been so impressed with some of the play this season, we have just been shot shy. On paper players like Bell, Lupo, Stevo, Kennedy should do very well. We just need a good thrashing of somone or at least a decent win, still think that will happen on Tue.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Two Tails"]Oh and I dont know how to get my banner to work, i just pasted the link in my sig, is there something else I need to do to make it work?


[/quote]Just go to my first post on this thread TT, click on the Quote button, and you''ll see the full code there (you have two things missings..........I''ll also email this to you