The Chief Executive lets the cat out of the bag.

[As my login causes problems [ :o) ] 0]

T apart from raising this doomsday scenario, what do you propose?

The trouble with message boards and a point I can sympathise with Smudger on,is that it is all too easy to point out the problems but we need people with answers. 

Personally I believe that there are people out there who would buy a Championship club at the right price, why are you so sure no one does?

[T 190]

I agree it is not particularly helpful but I am merely pointing out ecomonic reality which a lot of people because of their emotional attachment to the club seem to ignore.

Why do I think it is not easy to attract someone to buy the club:

1. Football apart from a few of the very top clubs is a loss making business as indicated by the deloitte report on football. I think you will find that all owners of football clubs have made their money elsewear not from football. A lot of people have lost a lot of money in football so it is a game for the mega wealthy. There are no private equity buyers of football clubs who specialize in buying businesses because football clubs are unattractive financially. Therefore football clubs are a rich persons toy rather than a serious financial investment. So you are either looking for someone with a) a local affliation to the club or b) an outsider who is interested in owning a club as a hobby because he has substantial wealth to spare and is interested in football.

2. If you look at the times rich list for the area then the Turners are one of the very richest people in the area and they could not afford to take the club forward. If you look at the other people on the list above them then I suspect they are not into football and and given football is a poor investment unlikely to buy. Therefore it is difficult to find someone locally because there is very very few people with the money or interest to take the club forward. We can think of one person but he never made an offer to buy the shareholders out unless he has very recently.

3. So if you look for someone outside the area you then ask why they would buy the club given its not financially attractive. Most of the foreign investors have gone for glamerous premiership clubs or a club in London given the accessability. If you are an outsider buying a club you are far more likely to buy a club in London given there are more rich people with access to London and the appalling state of infrastructure in the UK. Presumably if you paid a lot of money for a club then you would like to see them aoccaisionally and Norwich is a pain to get to.

4. A number of other clubs in the championship are also looking for investment and have found it difficult to attract the right investment eg Ipswich and Southampton, west brom etc so there are other clubs who have also struggled to find a non-local investor outside of London.

However, that is not to say it is impossible as we only need one such person just to say it is extremely difficult to find someone for the reasons given above. One possibility if we don''t care who owns the club as long as they are rich would be for the club to contact the consultancy that Newcastle are using as they seem to have a lot of contacts but again why would anyone be interested in a loss making club in a loss making business in the middle of no where. I''m familiar with the people who worked on the acquisition of Liverpool and they looked at getting new investors for other clubs, in particular from Russia but they have had no success so it is very difficult to find someone interested in buying a championship club outside of London. 

[LQ 0]

Just to point out (if that''s ok), it''s over a quarter of Championship clubs who are looking for the same thing we are at my last count.It''s Keith Harris at Seymour Pierce Investment Bank (everyone''s favourite type of business at the moment) who is overseeing the NUFC sale and I think I''m right in saying he''s also involved in discussions regarding Everton. Unfortunately I don''t think we''re big enough fish for him!

[kdncfc 0]

[quote user="T"]

I agree it is not particularly helpful but I am merely pointing out ecomonic reality which a lot of people because of their emotional attachment to the club seem to ignore.

Why do I think it is not easy to attract someone to buy the club:

1. Football apart from a few of the very top clubs is a loss making business as indicated by the deloitte report on football. I think you will find that all owners of football clubs have made their money elsewear not from football. A lot of people have lost a lot of money in football so it is a game for the mega wealthy. There are no private equity buyers of football clubs who specialize in buying businesses because football clubs are unattractive financially. Therefore football clubs are a rich persons toy rather than a serious financial investment. So you are either looking for someone with a) a local affliation to the club or b) an outsider who is interested in owning a club as a hobby because he has substantial wealth to spare and is interested in football.

2. If you look at the times rich list for the area then the Turners are one of the very richest people in the area and they could not afford to take the club forward. If you look at the other people on the list above them then I suspect they are not into football and and given football is a poor investment unlikely to buy. Therefore it is difficult to find someone locally because there is very very few people with the money or interest to take the club forward. We can think of one person but he never made an offer to buy the shareholders out unless he has very recently.

3. So if you look for someone outside the area you then ask why they would buy the club given its not financially attractive. Most of the foreign investors have gone for glamerous premiership clubs or a club in London given the accessability. If you are an outsider buying a club you are far more likely to buy a club in London given there are more rich people with access to London and the appalling state of infrastructure in the UK. Presumably if you paid a lot of money for a club then you would like to see them aoccaisionally and Norwich is a pain to get to.

4. A number of other clubs in the championship are also looking for investment and have found it difficult to attract the right investment eg Ipswich and Southampton, west brom etc so there are other clubs who have also struggled to find a non-local investor outside of London.

However, that is not to say it is impossible as we only need one such person just to say it is extremely difficult to find someone for the reasons given above. One possibility if we don''t care who owns the club as long as they are rich would be for the club to contact the consultancy that Newcastle are using as they seem to have a lot of contacts but again why would anyone be interested in a loss making club in a loss making business in the middle of no where. I''m familiar with the people who worked on the acquisition of Liverpool and they looked at getting new investors for other clubs, in particular from Russia but they have had no success so it is very difficult to find someone interested in buying a championship club outside of London. 

[/quote]

Have you forgot Mr Cullum, he may live in Kent but he''s a Norwich man and is a fan of the club.

[AndyJR 0]

I think the whole Turner thing is pretty straight forward - they wanted to see if they could make the Club into a profitable business, found out it wasn''t viable so left. 

[yellow hammer 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

As Kathy and i thought it would not be long before NCISA was pushed to the front and seen as the torch bearer for everybody that is concerned at the perilous financial plight that is racing in our direction and the continuing under achievement on the field.

That is not a problem as NCISA is there to represent the fans of our club.

Last Thursday the NCISA committee held its October monthly meeting and it was by far the longest meeting held for many a moon.

What i am now going to say will be seen as a cop out by some(certainly Smudger) but whatever course NCISA takes will be democratic and careful thought will given to the consequences for Norwich City Football Club.

It was decided to wait and see what is said by Delia and the rest of the board at the AGM.All we have to go on at this moment in time is media speculation and rumours.

If what is said is not to the fans liking NCISA will be contacting EVERY SINGLE ONE of its members with a questionaire.

The make up of that questionaire is dependant on the outcome of the AGM.

In the meantime please contact me at J.TILSON@SKY.COM and i will collate all your views and pass on to the rest of the NCISA committee.

[/quote]

John, I would personally thought that the public AGM would have been the ideal forum for the NCISA to air its views as you have full access to media coverage, but I respect your decision to adopt a different approach in the way you seem fit. One thing I would note is that if you intend to wait and see what the board has to say at the AGM, you will still need to be primed with a relevent set of questions since there will be those at the AGM who will try to steer the meeting away from anything controversial and the board will be only too happy to respond with platitudes.

I will most certainly email you with my views on the current state of NCFC and I hope all those on this forum, whatever your opinion is, will do the same.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

As Kathy and i thought it would not be long before NCISA was pushed to the front and seen as the torch bearer for everybody that is concerned at the perilous financial plight that is racing in our direction and the continuing under achievement on the field.

That is not a problem as NCISA is there to represent the fans of our club.

Last Thursday the NCISA committee held its October monthly meeting and it was by far the longest meeting held for many a moon.

What i am now going to say will be seen as a cop out by some(certainly Smudger) but whatever course NCISA takes will be democratic and careful thought will given to the consequences for Norwich City Football Club.

It was decided to wait and see what is said by Delia and the rest of the board at the AGM.All we have to go on at this moment in time is media speculation and rumours.

If what is said is not to the fans liking NCISA will be contacting EVERY SINGLE ONE of its members with a questionaire.

The make up of that questionaire is dependant on the outcome of the AGM.

In the meantime please contact me at J.TILSON@SKY.COM and i will collate all your views and pass on to the rest of the NCISA committee.

[/quote]

Why not just come up with some courses of action and put it to the vote John?

You are there to represent your members and the wider community of City fans after all.

You can see that they are clearly disenchanted, so what is holding NCISA back?

It matters not a jot what is said at the AGM... it will only be more spin, spin, spin from people we no longer trust.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user=""]

Smudger I think you are being very harsh on NCISA and in particular John, who has listened to your views at length.

What we do need to remember in this is that NCISA is not a bunch of anarchists, they are there to represent all their members and to reflect their views.  That is why it is necessary to see what the members want as a whole and not just the more vociferous.

Every single committee member has gauged opinion from NCISA members and fans at large and the response that came back to the meeting was that despite severe unrest most felt that to do anything before the AGM was presumptuous.  Now that doesn''t mean that even during the AGM events may change that feeling, but like it or not Smudger you are in the minority that feel something should be done beforehand.

Speaking as just one member of NCISA I remain firmly of the opinion that change at boardroom level is necessary but I want to hear if anything is happening at the AGM, and if nothing is (or indeed has) then I will be shouting as loud as you.

 

[/quote]

Not being harsh at all... at least John has listened... and I do appreciate that.

I also appreciate the fact that NCISA has to represent all it''s members and at this moment in time John, Kathy, your good self and others are up against it... I certainly do not envy any of you.

Things should go to a vote... if I am out voted then fair enough... I would hold my tongue... facts are that it has not gone to a vote yet though.

All of the above does not change my view for one minute though.

What differnce does it make, what is said at the AGM.

The majority of our fan base no longer trusts this board of ours as far as they could throw them.

Can any of you honestly believe anything which is said at the AGM???

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="T"]And what if despite putting the business being publicly put up for sale there is no buyer given there is very few people with the necessary wealth or inclination to buy a loss making business in a loss making market in the middle of no where?[/quote]

It didn''t stop a rich fan of Reading buying them did it???

[O.T.B.C 0]

Is this rich business man who has hardly spent any on his playing staff and mainly done the stadium and other business ventures with in the club and states that he is far too poor to be a club chairman?

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Canaries in Bed"]Is this rich business man who has hardly spent any on his playing staff and mainly done the stadium and other business ventures with in the club and states that he is far too poor to be a club chairman?[/quote]

How poor were Reading prior to him being there though?

Elm Park wasn''t it???

mmm a real football ground!!!

They hardly had a choice but to build a new ground did they???

PS - Get that picture changed... I am sick of replying to a picture of myself.

[O.T.B.C 0]

Likewise here was falling apart and we needed new stands etc. Maybe not a hotel.

[Soldier on 160]

Surely opinions need to be sought before the AGM.  Do we reallyhave the time to adopt a wait and see attitude?  isnt that just what the current board want.  We may win every game up to the AGM but the main problem will still be the same??!  After all it was Delia that made the "any idiot" comment at an annual general meeting which was followed up in a radio/tv interview that she would never turn down anybody wishing to pump 20 million into the club

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Soldier on"]Surely opinions need to be sought before the AGM.  Do we reallyhave the time to adopt a wait and see attitude?  isnt that just what the current board want.  We may win every game up to the AGM but the main problem will still be the same??!  After all it was Delia that made the "any idiot" comment at an annual general meeting which was followed up in a radio/tv interview that she would never turn down anybody wishing to pump 20 million into the club[/quote]

To be strictly accurate, what she said was "the fans would never forgive us if we turned down £20m".  It was designed to make us believe they wouldn''t turn it down without telling an outright lie.  Spin at its most insidious, with a flavour of arrogant contempt - she could have picked any figure out of the air but she chose exactly the amount they had turned down.  Did she think we wouldn''t find out?

 

[T 190]

....and how would you describe someone who takes a single quote out of context? There was a very clear statement on the official site as to what the club is willing to accept.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="T"]

....and how would you describe someone who takes a single quote out of context? There was a very clear statement on the official site as to what the club is willing to accept.

[/quote]

Exactly right T but, considering the source, as they say, one must treat it with the contempt it deserves. 

[yellow hammer 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="T"]

....and how would you describe someone who takes a single quote out of context? There was a very clear statement on the official site as to what the club is willing to accept.

[/quote]

Exactly right T but, considering the source, as they say, one must treat it with the contempt it deserves. 

[/quote]

I don''t understand your comment, Yankee. Surely the source was Delia Smith at the AGM, so why is the remark to be treated with contempt? Or is your comment a sacarstic one aimed at PP?

And I don''t see how this quote is taken out of context. A question about investment was put at last year''s AGM to which Delia personally responded. That seems to be very much in context to me. And then Delia went on to repeat the same quote later in an interview, so it was definitely not an off-the-cuff, throw-away remark. Delia clearly stated what she felt fans'' opinion would be if she turned down twenty million quid, which was exactly the same amount that Cullum was offering to inject into the club at the time she made those comments. A mere co-incidence? I think not.

These events took place this time last year. That which Delia posted on the official web site as her asking price didn''t occur until nine months later, and then only after being forced to admit that Cullum had expressed an interest by his going to the press during the close season.

Nobody is forcing Delia Smith to makes these comments. She is free to say whatever she likes, as she did at the Royal Norfolk Show this year. But fans also have the right to ask whether she should be taken seriously or not, whether there is substance to her comments, whether she has the best interests of the club at heart, and ultimately the right to ask whether she is a fit and proper person to run our club.  That''s the context as I see it.

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="yellow hammer"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="T"]

....and how would you describe someone who takes a single quote out of context? There was a very clear statement on the official site as to what the club is willing to accept.

[/quote]

Exactly right T but, considering the source, as they say, one must treat it with the contempt it deserves. 

[/quote]

I don''t understand your comment, Yankee. Surely the source was Delia Smith at the AGM, so why is the remark to be treated with contempt? Or is your comment a sacarstic one aimed at PP?

And I don''t see how this quote is taken out of context. A question about investment was put at last year''s AGM to which Delia personally responded. That seems to be very much in context to me. And then Delia went on to repeat the same quote later in an interview, so it was definitely not an off-the-cuff, throw-away remark. Delia clearly stated what she felt fans'' opinion would be if she turned down twenty million quid, which was exactly the same amount that Cullum was offering to inject into the club at the time she made those comments. A mere co-incidence? I think not.

These events took place this time last year. That which Delia posted on the official web site as her asking price didn''t occur until nine months later, and then only after being forced to admit that Cullum had expressed an interest by his going to the press during the close season.

Nobody is forcing Delia Smith to makes these comments. She is free to say whatever she likes, as she did at the Royal Norfolk Show this year. But fans also have the right to ask whether she should be taken seriously or not, whether there is substance to her comments, whether she has the best interests of the club at heart, and ultimately the right to ask whether she is a fit and proper person to run our club.  That''s the context as I see it.

[/quote]

In my view, yellow hammer, there is no point in debating what the context was because it has already been debated to death. One person chooses to believe one thing and the next chooses to believe something else. None of us really know. I choose to believe in the common sense aspect of it. Very few people in this world are going to give up for nothing a club they have invested in and are majority owners of. I personally don''t believe Delia would have ever made a comment intending that. That''s context. All I know from what was reported on the Peter Cullum interest is that he was prepared to put 20 million pounds into the transfer kitty as long as he was given control of the club. Full stop. If I were the majority owner I would not be prepared to sign over control on that basis because a) I would personally be receiving NOTHING against what I had invested and b) once Peter Cullum was given control he would be free to decide the fate of the 20 million pounds.

[arrdee 2]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="yellow hammer"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="T"]

....and how would you describe someone who takes a single quote out of context? There was a very clear statement on the official site as to what the club is willing to accept.

[/quote]

Exactly right T but, considering the source, as they say, one must treat it with the contempt it deserves. 

[/quote]

I don''t understand your comment, Yankee. Surely the source was Delia Smith at the AGM, so why is the remark to be treated with contempt? Or is your comment a sacarstic one aimed at PP?

And I don''t see how this quote is taken out of context. A question about investment was put at last year''s AGM to which Delia personally responded. That seems to be very much in context to me. And then Delia went on to repeat the same quote later in an interview, so it was definitely not an off-the-cuff, throw-away remark. Delia clearly stated what she felt fans'' opinion would be if she turned down twenty million quid, which was exactly the same amount that Cullum was offering to inject into the club at the time she made those comments. A mere co-incidence? I think not.

These events took place this time last year. That which Delia posted on the official web site as her asking price didn''t occur until nine months later, and then only after being forced to admit that Cullum had expressed an interest by his going to the press during the close season.

Nobody is forcing Delia Smith to makes these comments. She is free to say whatever she likes, as she did at the Royal Norfolk Show this year. But fans also have the right to ask whether she should be taken seriously or not, whether there is substance to her comments, whether she has the best interests of the club at heart, and ultimately the right to ask whether she is a fit and proper person to run our club.  That''s the context as I see it.

[/quote]

In my view, yellow hammer, there is no point in debating what the context was because it has already been debated to death. One person chooses to believe one thing and the next chooses to believe something else. None of us really know. I choose to believe in the common sense aspect of it. Very few people in this world are going to give up for nothing a club they have invested in and are majority owners of. I personally don''t believe Delia would have ever made a comment intending that. That''s context. All I know from what was reported on the Peter Cullum interest is that he was prepared to put 20 million pounds into the transfer kitty as long as he was given control of the club. Full stop. If I were the majority owner I would not be prepared to sign over control on that basis because a) I would personally be receiving NOTHING against what I had invested and b) once Peter Cullum was given control he would be free to decide the fate of the 20 million pounds.

[/quote]

Yep and put it back in his pocket if he wished....arrdee

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="T"]

....and how would you describe someone who takes a single quote out of context? [/quote]

Candidates for President of the United States of America.

Have a nice day!

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="T"]

....and how would you describe someone who takes a single quote out of context? [/quote]

Candidates for President of the United States of America.

Have a nice day!

[/quote]

Now there, Canary Nut, you and I are in agreement. To be fair, however I don''t think we need to restrict ourselves to pinning this badge on the USA alone.

[Mello Yello 2,289]

For the ''out of context'' "quotes" by our major-shareholder.......Just go on YouTube, and type in ''Delia interview'' or something like that - as I can''t be hearsed to type a link.....I think it gives quite a clear interpretation of what was actually taken ''out of context'' by the ''out of contexterererererererererererererer''s''.....[:|]

You can always turn the volume down, stick your fingers in your ears (and providing you''re not a qualified lip-reader) - go "Lah lah lah....I''m a Carrow Ostrich - and I can''t hear what Delia''s really saying out of context - and I''d stick my head in the sand if it wouldn''t make a mess of my shag-pile carpet....lah, lah, LAH!"

Or put on ''yellow tinted welding goggles'' and stare at the monitor, and still turn the volume down and give a continuous chorus of Lah lah lah''s.....[:|] Till the ''out of context'' interview finishes, and then goes away.....[:D]

Haven''t seen it or heard it.....So it never happened.[:|].....Or did it?[:O]

 

[WeAreYellows49 0]

Think this is what you are on about.

 

YouTube - Delia Smith talks Football on Simon Mayo - BBC Radio 5 Live

[Smudger 0]

Maybe everybody should wave tenners in Delias face at the AGM Yankee???

Because as we all know by now, she also claimed that she would sell up tomorrow for a tenner if the right person came along.

[As my login causes problems [ :o) ] 0]

As a protest that is beautifully simple Smudger.

So shareholders do you have the bottle?

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user=""]

As a protest that is beautifully simple Smudger.

So shareholders do you have the bottle?

 

[/quote]

I thought some might appreciate that little idea... :o)  [;)]

[ca 1]

[quote user="face"]

As a protest that is beautifully simple Smudger.

So shareholders do you have the bottle?

 

[/quote]

 

I don''t think thats a bad idea tbh, still think it would be good if the ncisa members/shareholders and posters on here who want to speak all sat together so that we got heard and didn''t feel isolated.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

Sadly I am not a shareholder so can''t attend, but would be very grateful if those going could post reports please [:)]

[Sing Up The South Stand 0]

Did I miss the AGM?

As far as I''m aware it was put back.  I''ve got a letter saying it''s on 11th November at 8pm.  Been moved back because there was a mistake when sending out the letters and because of an error they were sent out too late to meet company law to be yesterday.

So JT, I think the person who told you was having you on!

[Sing Up The South Stand 0]

Ignore that I just re read the messages.  What an idiot am I!