Now i the time for the Board to stand down

[LinkNR9 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="LinkNR9"][quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="Wighty"]They won''t stand down. They''re hardly under pressure from all these ''Board Outers''.
[/quote]

Very true... as I have said in all this time, the only ''board out'' chants I have heard and the only pressure our directors have come under were from my own mouth...

When firstly I protested loudly (for one person) after the Wolves home game a year or two ago now, and then I challenged MWJ directly outside the main entrance to the City Stand and was abruptly told to pi$$ off by HRH Wyn Jones.

[/quote]

Smudger, I think that you are going about this the wrong way (and, please note, I agree with you that we need a change at the top). The days of the Chase-out style protest are gone; it ain''t gonna happen. It''s the forums such as the supporter groups'' meetings and the shareholders meetings at which the Board can be put on the spot.

In addition, chants at the games are not going to help the players - no matter how poor they are - they can''t help their level of ability.  

[/quote]

So why have they not been put on the spot, when they have been questioned (quite directly at times) during these forums, on the message boards and in shareholders meetings during the last couple of years NR9???

Didn''t take the Newcastle fans long to get their own way over the Ashley debacle did it???

I would say there is a place for /board out'' chants at games and the level of abuse that Chase got to be directed at our current board.

It is our failure to do this which means they will quite happily sit there and continue to rip the fans off!!!

[/quote]

I''m not a shareholder, Smudger, so I don''t know what questions are asked at those meetings. What about the supporters'' group meetings - do they put the Board under any real scrutiny?    

I disagree about ''Chase-out'' style protests - the type of fan going to Carrow Road now (mainly family-orientated) won''t take part in a protest. As I said, I think that it ain''t going to happen. 

As for Newcastle, Ashley wanted out because he and his family were receiving threats of violence - that can never be condoned, whatever fans think of a Board.

I think that the Press / media could play a more incisive role - fans putting the Board on the spot on the radio, or facing some awkward questions from the EDP or Radio Norfolk. But, again, I can''t see that happening somehow, there''s too much of a cosy relationship between the local media and NCFC.  

[T 190]

Some good questions YH atogether with the likely answers although they may be more diplomatic

1.Why did they not mention PC''s approach at the time of the last GM? No formal offer was made at that time and any discussions as is normal for all business discussions were private at that time
2. Why was PCs offer not in the best interests of the club? He originally made offer of 5m loan which was repayable on relegation
3. Why did they refuse to meet PC directly after his public, second approach? He did not make an offer to buy the shares out - would you give the majority of your life time earnings away for free to some one worth 1.7bn?
4. Why do they now not pick up the phone and call PC? I think anyone who knows about deals would tell some who offered to take over a business without buying out the  shareholders would tell the individual to get lost - the strategy is to create a competitive auction by talking to other potential investors and then go back to PC when they have more bargaining power
5. Why did the Turners quit? Private matter but I think if u pick up a newspaper or watch the news there is a little matter of a global credit crises going on
6. Why has Ms. Smith made public statements that have no basis in fact (RNS, no investors etc) More money was indicated at RNS and nore money has been put in. Still no offers to buy the shareholdersout have been received.
7. Why have the major shareholders converted loans into shareholdings? Is this to maximise their holdings value? Loan conversion is beneficial for the club as it creates more certainty but has no real impact.
8. Why did they value the last sale of shares at 30 pounds per share whem most Champ clubs are declining in value? 30 is a nominal value - the value printed on share certificates is meaningless in terms of what the shares can be sold for. It does however equate to the net asset per share of the club which is the normal basic minimum valuation basis for shares
9. How much did they budget to make from the land deals and how have they changed the valuation in the light of the credit-crunch? I believe the land is budgeted to be sold for 10m, the long term valuation has not changed but is taking longer to realise becasue of the global credit crisis. 
10. Do they accept that property speculation was a false strategy in the light of falling property values? The club has made considerable funds out of land deals in the past which have been used to increase the budget for the team. The global credit crisis was not anticipated by the world markets however the fundamentals for the land market are still strong and a substantial profit is still expected when the tempoary credit market problems are resolved.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Carl Moores Wallet"][quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="Wighty"]I think the key is to be forceful yet not millitant. Angry supporters swearing at them only provokes a response which puts them off wanting to talk to them personally. Who can blame them? Perhaps if a more moderate form of opposition was organised the powers that be might be more inclined to discuss things with them.
[/quote]

U mean more of the same plop that we have had for the last couple of year Wighty?

That will never get rid of them.

They have never listenend to what the fans have had to say.

If I go to the AGM and take the microphone I will be starting a board out chant and hurling a few obscenities in Delia & Co''s direction.

[/quote]

You don''t have to worry about protests, they will be gone by the time players return from the international break.

[/quote]

and where is your evidence of this?  or is it just another vain attempt to sweep all of the crap under the carpet yet again???

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="LinkNR9"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="LinkNR9"][quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="Wighty"]They won''t stand down. They''re hardly under pressure from all these ''Board Outers''.
[/quote]

Very true... as I have said in all this time, the only ''board out'' chants I have heard and the only pressure our directors have come under were from my own mouth...

When firstly I protested loudly (for one person) after the Wolves home game a year or two ago now, and then I challenged MWJ directly outside the main entrance to the City Stand and was abruptly told to pi$$ off by HRH Wyn Jones.

[/quote]

Smudger, I think that you are going about this the wrong way (and, please note, I agree with you that we need a change at the top). The days of the Chase-out style protest are gone; it ain''t gonna happen. It''s the forums such as the supporter groups'' meetings and the shareholders meetings at which the Board can be put on the spot.

In addition, chants at the games are not going to help the players - no matter how poor they are - they can''t help their level of ability.  

[/quote]

So why have they not been put on the spot, when they have been questioned (quite directly at times) during these forums, on the message boards and in shareholders meetings during the last couple of years NR9???

Didn''t take the Newcastle fans long to get their own way over the Ashley debacle did it???

I would say there is a place for /board out'' chants at games and the level of abuse that Chase got to be directed at our current board.

It is our failure to do this which means they will quite happily sit there and continue to rip the fans off!!!

[/quote]

I''m not a shareholder, Smudger, so I don''t know what questions are asked at those meetings. What about the supporters'' group meetings - do they put the Board under any real scrutiny?    

I disagree about ''Chase-out'' style protests - the type of fan going to Carrow Road now (mainly family-orientated) won''t take part in a protest. As I said, I think that it ain''t going to happen. 

As for Newcastle, Ashley wanted out because he and his family were receiving threats of violence - that can never be condoned, whatever fans think of a Board.

I think that the Press / media could play a more incisive role - fans putting the Board on the spot on the radio, or facing some awkward questions from the EDP or Radio Norfolk. But, again, I can''t see that happening somehow, there''s too much of a cosy relationship between the local media and NCFC.  

[/quote]

Not really... they are a joke NR9... I had the mirophone almost ripped from my hand because they did not like my line of questioning after approx 1 minute at last years meeting at Diss Town Football Club.

As for the way the Newcastle things went about it, why can that not be condoned?  It is this squeaky nicey, nicey Norwich way that has given you lot exactly what you have received over the last 3 and a half years.  Unless the board members are made to feel extremely uncomfortable then they will continue to hold out for their ridiculous (an unfair) pay out for as long as possible.

Think about it for a second... if you stood to make £ millions would you cut and run just because you were asked nicely, or because it was the right thing to do???

[yellow hammer 0]

[quote user="T"]

Some good questions YH atogether with the likely answers although they may be more diplomatic

1.Why did they not mention PC''s approach at the time of the last GM? No formal offer was made at that time and any discussions as is normal for all business discussions were private at that time
2. Why was PCs offer not in the best interests of the club? He originally made offer of 5m loan which was repayable on relegation
3. Why did they refuse to meet PC directly after his public, second approach? He did not make an offer to buy the shares out - would you give the majority of your life time earnings away for free to some one worth 1.7bn?
4. Why do they now not pick up the phone and call PC? I think anyone who knows about deals would tell some who offered to take over a business without buying out the  shareholders would tell the individual to get lost - the strategy is to create a competitive auction by talking to other potential investors and then go back to PC when they have more bargaining power
5. Why did the Turners quit? Private matter but I think if u pick up a newspaper or watch the news there is a little matter of a global credit crises going on
6. Why has Ms. Smith made public statements that have no basis in fact (RNS, no investors etc) More money was indicated at RNS and nore money has been put in. Still no offers to buy the shareholdersout have been received.
7. Why have the major shareholders converted loans into shareholdings? Is this to maximise their holdings value? Loan conversion is beneficial for the club as it creates more certainty but has no real impact.
8. Why did they value the last sale of shares at 30 pounds per share whem most Champ clubs are declining in value? 30 is a nominal value - the value printed on share certificates is meaningless in terms of what the shares can be sold for. It does however equate to the net asset per share of the club which is the normal basic minimum valuation basis for shares
9. How much did they budget to make from the land deals and how have they changed the valuation in the light of the credit-crunch? I believe the land is budgeted to be sold for 10m, the long term valuation has not changed but is taking longer to realise becasue of the global credit crisis. 
10. Do they accept that property speculation was a false strategy in the light of falling property values? The club has made considerable funds out of land deals in the past which have been used to increase the budget for the team. The global credit crisis was not anticipated by the world markets however the fundamentals for the land market are still strong and a substantial profit is still expected when the tempoary credit market problems are resolved.

[/quote]

 

T, let me put to you a question, as you have exprience in football club valuations from what I gather from your posts.

All businesses need new investment to provide future growth. We have little TV revenue, no prem income, little in merchandising compared to prem clubs and other investments do not make up the shortfall. We are not generating enough new investment to improve our business and football nowadays needs a billionaire sugar-daddy to provide this  required investment.

If you were brokering a transfer of the ownership of the club from the current majority shareholders to, let''s say, a Cullum-type figure, how to break the current impasse where one party wants to get the best return on its investment while the other party wants to inject as much funds as possible into the playing squad?

It''s not a question of valuing the club, even though many posters have tried to come up with what they see as a fair value for the club. For me, these two parties both have a different concept of what this deal could/should be about. So I''m asking how to find a common ground that isn''t just about the valuation of the club. It is a tragedy that our club is drifting rudderless and without leadership when a willingness to find common ground can solve this problem.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="T"]

Some good questions YH atogether with the likely answers although they may be more diplomatic

1.Why did they not mention PC''s approach at the time of the last GM? No formal offer was made at that time and any discussions as is normal for all business discussions were private at that time
2. Why was PCs offer not in the best interests of the club? He originally made offer of 5m loan which was repayable on relegation
3. Why did they refuse to meet PC directly after his public, second approach? He did not make an offer to buy the shares out - would you give the majority of your life time earnings away for free to some one worth 1.7bn?
4. Why do they now not pick up the phone and call PC? I think anyone who knows about deals would tell some who offered to take over a business without buying out the  shareholders would tell the individual to get lost - the strategy is to create a competitive auction by talking to other potential investors and then go back to PC when they have more bargaining power
5. Why did the Turners quit? Private matter but I think if u pick up a newspaper or watch the news there is a little matter of a global credit crises going on
6. Why has Ms. Smith made public statements that have no basis in fact (RNS, no investors etc) More money was indicated at RNS and nore money has been put in. Still no offers to buy the shareholdersout have been received.
7. Why have the major shareholders converted loans into shareholdings? Is this to maximise their holdings value? Loan conversion is beneficial for the club as it creates more certainty but has no real impact.
8. Why did they value the last sale of shares at 30 pounds per share whem most Champ clubs are declining in value? 30 is a nominal value - the value printed on share certificates is meaningless in terms of what the shares can be sold for. It does however equate to the net asset per share of the club which is the normal basic minimum valuation basis for shares
9. How much did they budget to make from the land deals and how have they changed the valuation in the light of the credit-crunch? I believe the land is budgeted to be sold for 10m, the long term valuation has not changed but is taking longer to realise becasue of the global credit crisis. 
10. Do they accept that property speculation was a false strategy in the light of falling property values? The club has made considerable funds out of land deals in the past which have been used to increase the budget for the team. The global credit crisis was not anticipated by the world markets however the fundamentals for the land market are still strong and a substantial profit is still expected when the tempoary credit market problems are resolved.

[/quote]

They are not the reasons I have heard about why the Turners walked... I have also heard that they had less than unsavoury words to say about a certain Mr.Munby and what he said to the press upon them leaving.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="yellow hammer"][quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="Yellow Hammer"]A good starting point would be the AGM. If board-outers organised themselves by sitting together in a block, preparing questions that need to be asked, and more importantly, having the followup question since you know already what they will say. 1. Why did they not mention PC''s approach at the time of the last GM? 2. Why was PCs offer not in the best interests of the club? 3. Why did they refuse to meet PC directly after his public, second approach? 4. Why do they now not pick up the phone and call PC? 5. Why did the Turners quit? 6. Why has Ms. Smith made public statements that have no basis in fact (RNS, no investors etc) 7. Why have the major shareholders converted loans into shareholdings? Is this to maximise their holdings value? 8. Why did they value the last sale of shares at 30 pounds per share whem most Champ clubs are declining in value? 9. How much did they budget to make from the land deals and how have they changed the valuation in the light of the credit-crunch? 10. Do they accept that property speculation was a false strategy in the light of falling property values? I''m sure that others could add a whole lot more to this list. Ms. Smith is the most vunerable board member and if a concerted effort was focussed on her, I''m sure she would not be able to stand a barrage of questions.[/quote]

Why ask questions YH?

You are only going to get the same old answers from Doncaster, Mumbles & Co... you all know they talk in riddles like politicians and fail to answer any question which is aimed at them.

Why not have a group go to the AGM and just sing sack the board all the way through it???

At least then they would get the message.

We all know they don''t listen to us... so they just need telling that we want them to go!!!

[/quote]

Smudger, I agree with you that the way to go is to organize as a group at the AGM. If the indiviuals are scattered among the audience then they are easy targets for the beige-cardigan duffers encouraged by the suits on the stage. By sitting together a protest will be more focussed.

As to the form of the protest, I suggest begin with questioning the board and pressing them further if the answers are unsatisfactory. The idea should be to build up the pressure on Ms. Smith, whom I suspect is most vunerable to sustained questioning. If the Board tries to stifle the opposition then I suggest that is the time to deploy your tactics.

YH

[/quote]

I would be happy to sit with any group at the AGM, although I am not a shareholder, so that would undoubtedly make things difficult.

Anybody who things that reasonable questions will be listened to at the AGM and is building their hopes around this is clearly deluded though.

They have not listened to the fans once in the last 3 and a half years... why are they going to change now???

The longer you lot leave it without proper protests calling for the heads of the board on a Saturday afternoon, the longer our football club will suffer.

I have been telling people this for 3 years now and have not altered my opinion one bit... we have seen nothing to alter that opinion and more and more fans are starting to realise that what I have been saying all o9f this time is true.

We will not see the back of this board of directors driving NCFC in to the ground until their lives are made uncomfortable and they do not wish to attend Carrow Road any longer.

[singing canary 0]

well written the only trouble being with the board not even mentioning a thing regarding cullums approach last november then the press releasing this information in the spring, i dont think anyone knows whats going on.

all i can say is silly cat and mouse games and the board being as hypicritical as they are isnt doing this club any good.

 

[T 190]

[quote user="yellow hammer"][quote user="T"]

Some good questions YH atogether with the likely answers although they may be more diplomatic

1.Why did they not mention PC''s approach at the time of the last GM? No formal offer was made at that time and any discussions as is normal for all business discussions were private at that time
2. Why was PCs offer not in the best interests of the club? He originally made offer of 5m loan which was repayable on relegation
3. Why did they refuse to meet PC directly after his public, second approach? He did not make an offer to buy the shares out - would you give the majority of your life time earnings away for free to some one worth 1.7bn?
4. Why do they now not pick up the phone and call PC? I think anyone who knows about deals would tell some who offered to take over a business without buying out the  shareholders would tell the individual to get lost - the strategy is to create a competitive auction by talking to other potential investors and then go back to PC when they have more bargaining power
5. Why did the Turners quit? Private matter but I think if u pick up a newspaper or watch the news there is a little matter of a global credit crises going on
6. Why has Ms. Smith made public statements that have no basis in fact (RNS, no investors etc) More money was indicated at RNS and nore money has been put in. Still no offers to buy the shareholdersout have been received.
7. Why have the major shareholders converted loans into shareholdings? Is this to maximise their holdings value? Loan conversion is beneficial for the club as it creates more certainty but has no real impact.
8. Why did they value the last sale of shares at 30 pounds per share whem most Champ clubs are declining in value? 30 is a nominal value - the value printed on share certificates is meaningless in terms of what the shares can be sold for. It does however equate to the net asset per share of the club which is the normal basic minimum valuation basis for shares
9. How much did they budget to make from the land deals and how have they changed the valuation in the light of the credit-crunch? I believe the land is budgeted to be sold for 10m, the long term valuation has not changed but is taking longer to realise becasue of the global credit crisis. 
10. Do they accept that property speculation was a false strategy in the light of falling property values? The club has made considerable funds out of land deals in the past which have been used to increase the budget for the team. The global credit crisis was not anticipated by the world markets however the fundamentals for the land market are still strong and a substantial profit is still expected when the tempoary credit market problems are resolved.

[/quote]

 

T, let me put to you a question, as you have exprience in football club valuations from what I gather from your posts.

All businesses need new investment to provide future growth. We have little TV revenue, no prem income, little in merchandising compared to prem clubs and other investments do not make up the shortfall. We are not generating enough new investment to improve our business and football nowadays needs a billionaire sugar-daddy to provide this  required investment.

If you were brokering a transfer of the ownership of the club from the current majority shareholders to, let''s say, a Cullum-type figure, how to break the current impasse where one party wants to get the best return on its investment while the other party wants to inject as much funds as possible into the playing squad?

It''s not a question of valuing the club, even though many posters have tried to come up with what they see as a fair value for the club. For me, these two parties both have a different concept of what this deal could/should be about. So I''m asking how to find a common ground that isn''t just about the valuation of the club. It is a tragedy that our club is drifting rudderless and without leadership when a willingness to find common ground can solve this problem.

[/quote]

 

The usual way is deferred contingent consideration e.g. as the Turners and Ipsich dependent on promotion or the club being sold again or in this case PC selling Towergate when the credit cruch is resolved.

[ROBFLECK 132]

It''s the supporters that have to put pressure on the board, as a united force. Who pays to go and watch, who is suffering the most? Yep, us ... the fans

Just talking about it is not gonna help is it?

 

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="ROBFLECK"]

It''s the supporters that have to put pressure on the board, as a united force. Who pays to go and watch, who is suffering the most? Yep, us ... the fans

Just talking about it is not gonna help is it?

 

 

[/quote]

No... you said it.... [Y]

So what you going to do about it Flecky???

[singing canary 0]

how about arrange a protest worked for newcastle..