canary cherub 1 Posted September 2, 2008 Here''s the list as of midnight on deadline day (taken from official sites):Barnsley 2 Crystal Palace 0 QPR 4Birmingham 2 Derby 3 Reading 0 Blackpool 5 Doncaster 0 Sheff U 1Bristol City 1 Forest 2 Sheff W 2Burnley 1 Ipswich 2 Southampton 3Cardiff 1 Norwich 8 Swansea 2Charlton 1 Plymouth 2 Watford 0Coventry 0 Preston 1 Wolves 0 We''re doing things quite differently from the rest of the division. That''s not to say it won''t work, we can only wait and see - but if it''s such a good idea you''d think it would have caught on . . .[8-|] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted September 2, 2008 [quote user="Strawberry"]Here''s the list as of midnight on deadline day (taken from official sites):Barnsley 2 Crystal Palace 0 QPR 4Birmingham 2 Derby 3 Reading 0 Blackpool 5 Doncaster 0 Sheff U 1Bristol City 1 Forest 2 Sheff W 2Burnley 1 Ipswich 2 Southampton 3Cardiff 1 Norwich 8 Swansea 2Charlton 1 Plymouth 2 Watford 0Coventry 0 Preston 1 Wolves 0 We''re doing things quite differently from the rest of the division. That''s not to say it won''t work, we can only wait and see - but if it''s such a good idea you''d think it would have caught on . . .[8-|][/quote]Interesting.But then, maybe we''re just being ''cleverer than the rest'' as Roger Munby intimated was his aim a year or so ago!!!!We shall see what we shall see.But I I must confess that I have always rather liked both Stephanovic and Sibierski as players. Let''s just hope that their heads are in the right place after stepping down a level.One love.To the world!OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whoareyou? 0 Posted September 2, 2008 BertrandLupoliKennedyOmozusiKomoraSibierskiGrounds....makes seven. Who is the other one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fetchyafathersgun 0 Posted September 2, 2008 double barrelled spurs defender troy archibald something or other Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boris 56 Posted September 2, 2008 spurs deffender with strange name is 8th Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whoareyou? 0 Posted September 2, 2008 Ahh yes forgot about him! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,986 Posted September 2, 2008 [quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="Strawberry"]Here''s the list as of midnight on deadline day (taken from official sites):Barnsley 2 Crystal Palace 0 QPR 4Birmingham 2 Derby 3 Reading 0 Blackpool 5 Doncaster 0 Sheff U 1Bristol City 1 Forest 2 Sheff W 2Burnley 1 Ipswich 2 Southampton 3Cardiff 1 Norwich 8 Swansea 2Charlton 1 Plymouth 2 Watford 0Coventry 0 Preston 1 Wolves 0 We''re doing things quite differently from the rest of the division. That''s not to say it won''t work, we can only wait and see - but if it''s such a good idea you''d think it would have caught on . . .[8-|][/quote]Interesting.But then, maybe we''re just being ''cleverer than the rest'' as Roger Munby intimated was his aim a year or so ago!!!!We shall see what we shall see.But I I must confess that I have always rather liked both Stephanovic and Sibierski as players. Let''s just hope that their heads are in the right place after stepping down a level.One love.To the world!OTBC [/quote]Bly - has someone high jacked your account.......this post is quite positive [:D][:D][:D] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0 Posted September 2, 2008 [quote user="Strawberry"]Here''s the list as of midnight on deadline day (taken from official sites):Barnsley 2 Crystal Palace 0 QPR 4Birmingham 2 Derby 3 Reading 0 Blackpool 5 Doncaster 0 Sheff U 1Bristol City 1 Forest 2 Sheff W 2Burnley 1 Ipswich 2 Southampton 3Cardiff 1 Norwich 8 Swansea 2Charlton 1 Plymouth 2 Watford 0Coventry 0 Preston 1 Wolves 0 We''re doing things quite differently from the rest of the division. That''s not to say it won''t work, we can only wait and see - but if it''s such a good idea you''d think it would have caught on . . .[8-|] [/quote]You need to remember that the loan window is not closed, loans can start again in a week and quite a few championship clubs will probably get more loans in yet. Last season at least 2 or 3 other clubs had 6+ loanees in at the same time as us. Its part and parcel of Championship life now, we have to get used to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canary cherub 1 Posted September 2, 2008 A large number of loanees acceptable as a short term firefighting measure, like last season to keep us up. But as a long term strategy it offers nothing, and if you think otherwise you are simply falling for the same old confidence trick. The board know that most fans don''t think ahead and they''ve taken full advantage. Like drug addicts you''ve taken a quick fix because it''ll make you feel better for a little while, and you don''t want to think about what happens when it wears off.I agree with Bly that our board have indeed been "cleverer" than the rest. In this transfer window they''ve taken a decisive step towards achieving their holy grail of settling in the mid table comfort zone whilst keeping the fans coming through the gates. No club is history has ever managed it. If I were Satan I would congratulate them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buncey 1 Posted September 2, 2008 Just for the record:Last year: Team Players Loaned In bc 1 car 1 pne 1 qpr 2 wat 2 barn 3 bur 3 col u 3 cov 3 ippo 3 wolv 3 cr pal 4 hull 4 ply 4 bp 5 cha 5 sh u 5 wba 5 nor 6 scun 6 sh w 6 sou 6 les 7 sto 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saint Canary 0 Posted September 2, 2008 [quote user="Fellas"]Just for the record:Last year: Team Players Loaned In bc 1 car 1 pne 1 qpr 2 wat 2 barn 3 bur 3 col u 3 cov 3 ippo 3 wolv 3 cr pal 4 hull 4 ply 4 bp 5 cha 5 sh u 5 wba 5 nor 6 scun 6 sh w 6 sou 6 les 7 sto 7 [/quote]Is that the total over the season or the most at any one time? Did Leicester for example have 7 at one time or 3 prior who left in Jan and signed another 4 after? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canary cherub 1 Posted September 2, 2008 Last season the clubs with the most loanees were all at one end of the table or the other. That''s how loans are meant to be used - to keep a team up, cover for an injury crisis or give that extra 5% to get into the top two or top six. It didn''t work in every case but that''s not to say they shouldn''t have tried.Short term strategy - fine. Long term strategy - no way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted September 3, 2008 [quote user="BigFish"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="Strawberry"] Here''s the list as of midnight on deadline day (taken from official sites):Barnsley 2 Crystal Palace 0 QPR 4Birmingham 2 Derby 3 Reading 0 Blackpool 5 Doncaster 0 Sheff U 1Bristol City 1 Forest 2 Sheff W 2Burnley 1 Ipswich 2 Southampton 3Cardiff 1 Norwich 8 Swansea 2Charlton 1 Plymouth 2 Watford 0Coventry 0 Preston 1 Wolves 0 We''re doing things quite differently from the rest of the division. That''s not to say it won''t work, we can only wait and see - but if it''s such a good idea you''d think it would have caught on . . .[8-|][/quote]Interesting.But then, maybe we''re just being ''cleverer than the rest'' as Roger Munby intimated was his aim a year or so ago!!!!We shall see what we shall see.But I I must confess that I have always rather liked both Stephanovic and Sibierski as players. Let''s just hope that their heads are in the right place after stepping down a level.One love.To the world!OTBC [/quote]Bly - has someone high jacked your account.......this post is quite positive [:D][:D][:D][/quote]If you didn''t have tunnel vision you would know that I have always been positive on Roeder.[:P][:D]One love.To the world!OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blahblahblah 2 Posted September 3, 2008 [quote user="Strawberry"]Last season the clubs with the most loanees were all at one end of the table or the other. That''s how loans are meant to be used - to keep a team up, cover for an injury crisis or give that extra 5% to get into the top two or top six. It didn''t work in every case but that''s not to say they shouldn''t have tried.Short term strategy - fine. Long term strategy - no way. [/quote]When you have to replace 12 players in a team, and you can only afford to get 6 decent players in on a permanent transfer, what other option do you have ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canary cherub 1 Posted September 3, 2008 [quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Strawberry"] Last season the clubs with the most loanees were all at one end of the table or the other. That''s how loans are meant to be used - to keep a team up, cover for an injury crisis or give that extra 5% to get into the top two or top six. It didn''t work in every case but that''s not to say they shouldn''t have tried.Short term strategy - fine. Long term strategy - no way. [/quote]When you have to replace 12 players in a team, and you can only afford to get 6 decent players in on a permanent transfer, what other option do you have ?[/quote]Get new investment in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
7rew 0 Posted September 3, 2008 [quote user="Strawberry"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Strawberry"] Last season the clubs with the most loanees were all at one end of the table or the other. That''s how loans are meant to be used - to keep a team up, cover for an injury crisis or give that extra 5% to get into the top two or top six. It didn''t work in every case but that''s not to say they shouldn''t have tried.Short term strategy - fine. Long term strategy - no way. [/quote]When you have to replace 12 players in a team, and you can only afford to get 6 decent players in on a permanent transfer, what other option do you have ?[/quote]Get new investment in. [/quote]Of course - the magical new investment that will cure all our ills.Bold Prediction: It won''t, just hide them for a bit.Anyway - Sheff U are looking for another 2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thecanaryfan 0 Posted September 3, 2008 Oh dear, clear by three. We are 8 players short of a complete squad and we have a blackhole of £1.5m to consider. Eh, I think we might be in a spot of trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buncey 1 Posted September 3, 2008 Saint Canary, the figures I have for last season were at the loan window deadline last season (I couldn''t find any numbers for any other times during the season).As Strawberry said, the number of players you bring in on loan doesn''t seem to have a correlation to league performance (of course I can only deal with one seasons set of values) but it does seem that quality rather than quantity is the deciding factor (not that we wouldn''t expect that, it seems to go without saying). I would say, thus, by looking at the figures getting players in on loan rather than buying them doesn''t have the negative impact that some people claim. I''d also say it''s far more important how many players you loan out (or more importantly are able to loan out), with teams that loan out the most players generally doing better. Of course, being able to loan out players usually means you have a larger squad and so maybe it''s squad size that''s an important factor in success on the pitch. If that''s the case Roeder has done very well to boost the size of such a small squad, almost doubling it in size by the end of August. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted September 3, 2008 [quote user="Strawberry"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Strawberry"] Last season the clubs with the most loanees were all at one end of the table or the other. That''s how loans are meant to be used - to keep a team up, cover for an injury crisis or give that extra 5% to get into the top two or top six. It didn''t work in every case but that''s not to say they shouldn''t have tried.Short term strategy - fine. Long term strategy - no way. [/quote]When you have to replace 12 players in a team, and you can only afford to get 6 decent players in on a permanent transfer, what other option do you have ?[/quote]Get new investment in. [/quote]Why is it always assumed that players are loaned because of lack of funds to buy them. Most of the players Roeder loaned would not be available to buy. Sibierski is probably here because we couldn''t get Iverson and it''s already been hinted we could buy him later. It''s probably a good thing to try him first given his age and recent injury record. Koroma, Omozusi, Bertrand, and Lupoli were probably not available to buy and I don''t see many players of that quality who are available to buy.If you think back to last season we brought players and put them on long contracts. Some are still there now. Jamie Cureton is contracted to June 2010 and is probably taking up a first team wage that Roeder would prefer to go elsewhere. We also have Lappin and Chadwick taking up a wage and seemingly out of the managers plans. Last year we also gave long contracts to Brown, Brellier, and Strihavka to name 3 more. If you lot had your way we would have also had Jimmy Smith here on a long contract and big wage instead of us being able to return him three months later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buncey 1 Posted September 3, 2008 I completely agree Nutty. The number of loanees we have brought in is just a dig at the board and general backroom goings on and has nothing to do with what''s on the pitch. Last season among the team with the most loanees in their squads were Charlton, West Brom and Leicester. Hardly paupers.The reality is, is that buying young skillfull players is expensive. It''s not surprising that the only two young players we bought and managed to keep for a signifcant period of time Croft and Brown were cheap players (in comparision). Young players come at a premium and skillfull young players even more so. Add to that the fact that most team just don''t wanna sell potential starlets and you start to get a problem.If we tried to buy Betrand we would have been looking at a fee upwards of £1.5 million (probably signifcantly more). And considering we had maybe 6 or 7 places in our team that needed "filling", that''s gonna come to a lot of money. Too much. By the end of this season we will have had plastic in our team for nearly one and a half seasons. If we had bought him and signed him to a 3 year deal we would be struggling to re-new his contract (considering that many believe he''s a prem. prospect) and if not we''d be looking to sell him and be full circle again. In this case I support fully Roeder''s choice to bring in Betrand, Ozomuzi, Kennedy and Lupoli. They are players we would have had no chance of buying in bulk yet we have them all still. They are probably better than anything we would have been able to buy if we had to have bought for all those positions (a la last season). Glenn is shrewd and good talent spotter and I''m confident that these loan signings are gonna do us good on the pitch.Even experience comes at a heavy cost. Players like Howard who are experiences campaigners are over-priced, simply because they''ve been at this level some time they become more valuable for building teams up. Howard is very over-priced, even Shackell is... (well Wolves will possibly find that out further down the line (or maybe not)). Sibierski is a million miles better than Howard, and I can bet you a very nice Hat that he will end up cheaper than Howard over the short term at least (considering fees for Howard, his wages and a ganrenteed salary for at least 2 seasons). Even if Sibierski is not what we want over the long term, I see him only as a stop gap till we can have another go for Iversen, then we''ve lost almost nothing, bascially just his wages. A lot better than £1 million and wages over 2 seasons (of course these are guesses of how long Howard would have signed for, it could be longer or shorter but you don''t tend to buy players for £1million and only sign 1 year deals). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted September 3, 2008 QPR can afford to buy any players they like but have 4 loans, so surely loans are a strategy they are also using and not as a way to save money. Personally, I think our strategy is also spot-on as we have brought in some great quality, and I feel very optimistic this season for a top 6 finish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canary cherub 1 Posted September 3, 2008 [quote user="paul moy"]QPR can afford to buy any players they like but have 4 loans, so surely loans are a strategy they are also using and not as a way to save money. Personally, I think our strategy is also spot-on as we have brought in some great quality, and I feel very optimistic this season for a top 6 finish.[/quote]QPR''s loans are all foreign players so I haven''t a clue what that''s all about. Smacks of Tevez/Mascherano to me but I could be wrong.I''m not arguing for no loans at all, just saying that eight loans at the start of the season is excessive. If it was such a spot-on strategy you''d think a few other clubs would have caught on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooleyfan 0 Posted September 3, 2008 [quote user="Strawberry"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Strawberry"] Last season the clubs with the most loanees were all at one end of the table or the other. That''s how loans are meant to be used - to keep a team up, cover for an injury crisis or give that extra 5% to get into the top two or top six. It didn''t work in every case but that''s not to say they shouldn''t have tried.Short term strategy - fine. Long term strategy - no way. [/quote]When you have to replace 12 players in a team, and you can only afford to get 6 decent players in on a permanent transfer, what other option do you have ?[/quote]Get new investment in. [/quote]Alright all you investors form an orderly queue! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted September 3, 2008 [quote user="Strawberry"] [quote user="paul moy"]QPR can afford to buy any players they like but have 4 loans, so surely loans are a strategy they are also using and not as a way to save money. Personally, I think our strategy is also spot-on as we have brought in some great quality, and I feel very optimistic this season for a top 6 finish.[/quote]QPR''s loans are all foreign players so I haven''t a clue what that''s all about. Smacks of Tevez/Mascherano to me but I could be wrong.I''m not arguing for no loans at all, just saying that eight loans at the start of the season is excessive. If it was such a spot-on strategy you''d think a few other clubs would have caught on. [/quote] I think that one of the reasons it is working for us is because of Glenn''s contacts throughout the Premiership, and his apparent deep knowledge of fringe Premiership players. It''s a huge asset that not many other Championship sides have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooleyfan 0 Posted September 3, 2008 [quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Strawberry"] [quote user="paul moy"]QPR can afford to buy any players they like but have 4 loans, so surely loans are a strategy they are also using and not as a way to save money. Personally, I think our strategy is also spot-on as we have brought in some great quality, and I feel very optimistic this season for a top 6 finish.[/quote]QPR''s loans are all foreign players so I haven''t a clue what that''s all about. Smacks of Tevez/Mascherano to me but I could be wrong.I''m not arguing for no loans at all, just saying that eight loans at the start of the season is excessive. If it was such a spot-on strategy you''d think a few other clubs would have caught on. [/quote] I think that one of the reasons it is working for us is because of Glenn''s contacts throughout the Premiership, and his apparent deep knowledge of fringe Premiership players. It''s a huge asset that not many other Championship sides have. [/quote]I genuinely believe we are ahead of the game with our approach and Glen''s knowledge and contacts are key to success, but I fear that within a couple of seasons, successful Championship sides and below will also have to have their contacts and knowledge together about fringe players across the EU and beyond to survive Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted September 3, 2008 Fellas you make some very good points. Players of the quality needed to get out of this division are only available as loans (the likes of Lupoli) or are completely overpriced (the likes of Howard). But I would also say that the players Roeder is bringing in on loan are of a good enough standard to challenge to get out of this league where as the players that do the rounds of the Championship Clubs are journeymen at best and it''s the clubs who buy them who are settling for the mid-table comfort zone. We went down that road last season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooleyfan 0 Posted September 4, 2008 Dont know whether this has been picked up elsewhere but the Evening News is saying that not all our loan players are technically ''on loan'' and therefore we can field more than the quota of 5 under Football league rules. Kennedy and Lupoli, coming from outside the league, are ours albeit on a short ''contract''.http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/Sport/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=Sport&tBrand=ENOnline&tCategory=Sport&itemid=NOED03%20Sep%202008%2009%3A49%3A41%3A320 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted September 4, 2008 Good spot Hooleyfan [Y]While the club may not yet be "cleverer than the rest" they certainly seem to be clever than some on this message board [:O] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BBFF 0 Posted September 4, 2008 [quote user="nutty nigel"]Fellas you make some very good points. Players of the quality needed to get out of this division are only available as loans (the likes of Lupoli) or are completely overpriced (the likes of Howard). But I would also say that the players Roeder is bringing in on loan are of a good enough standard to challenge to get out of this league where as the players that do the rounds of the Championship Clubs are journeymen at best and it''s the clubs who buy them who are settling for the mid-table comfort zone. We went down that road last season. [/quote]Nutty to get out of this league you stability, continuity, and a squad of players all playing for that one purpose. Not a team of loaners, half trying to get fit to go back to their own club and the other half loaned to us so we can teach them for to play the game. 2 or 3 ok but 8 is too many if you don''t want to be rebuilding every 6 months.After saying all that with the club in melt down it looks like Roeder had no other options. FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted September 4, 2008 [quote user="BBFF"][quote user="nutty nigel"] Fellas you make some very good points. Players of the quality needed to get out of this division are only available as loans (the likes of Lupoli) or are completely overpriced (the likes of Howard). But I would also say that the players Roeder is bringing in on loan are of a good enough standard to challenge to get out of this league where as the players that do the rounds of the Championship Clubs are journeymen at best and it''s the clubs who buy them who are settling for the mid-table comfort zone. We went down that road last season. [/quote] Nutty to get out of this league you stability, continuity, and a squad of players all playing for that one purpose. Not a team of loaners, half trying to get fit to go back to their own club and the other half loaned to us so we can teach them for to play the game. 2 or 3 ok but 8 is too many if you don''t want to be rebuilding every 6 months.After saying all that with the club in melt down it looks like Roeder had no other options. FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST[/quote]Bet you wish your Barn Door Jamie had been a loan though.Think it through. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
