ABC - "Anyone But Cullum?"

[canary cherub 1]

After the events of July I am not at all hopeful that our majority shareholders will let Peter Cullum come on board at any price.

If they can find someone else to plug the shortfall I wouldn''t put it past Delia to send him away with a flea in his ear a third time.  It is my belief that the Turners pulled out because they felt they were being used to keep PC at bay.  Let''s hope no one else will even contemplate stepping in to fulfil that role.

At the moment I''m not expecting anything positive to come out of this, then if it does it will be a major bonus.  I dread the thought of this club staggering on and on in intensive care but I wouldn''t rule it out.

 

[7rew 0]

[quote user="Strawberry"]

After the events of July I am not at all hopeful that our majority shareholders will let Peter Cullum come on board at any price.

If they can find someone else to plug the shortfall I wouldn''t put it past Delia to send him away with a flea in his ear a third time.  It is my belief that the Turners pulled out because they felt they were being used to keep PC at bay.  Let''s hope no one else will even contemplate stepping in to fulfil that role.

At the moment I''m not expecting anything positive to come out of this, then if it does it will be a major bonus.  I dread the thought of this club staggering on and on in intensive care but I wouldn''t rule it out.

 [/quote]

Hevean forbid that Delia should apply any diligence to whatever Cullum is offering.  It is entirely possible that whatever his negotiating position is it is not in the best interests of the club as well as/instead of Delia''s own interests!  I know that some people are unwilling or unable to see past the headline figure, but how would it be structured?  Is it a loan, if so at what interest rates and with what repayment terms?   The Devil, as always, is in the details.

Did you hear Doug Ellis (ex Villa owner) talking about takeovers on the today program, I

thought it offered some insight into what must be going on at borad

level now think it well worth a listen.link to the interview.He

said that he felt it was important that any takeover (once he said he''d

sell, he got loads of offers) had a preexisting connection to the club

and wasn''t borrowing money to buy the club (apparently many of the offers were financially a bad idea). He also said that he

sent Randy Lerner away the first time because he wasn''t convinced by

his connection (started supporting Villa when at Cambridge Uni) but he

came back and convinced Ellis of his commitment to the club.

[7rew 0]

I should add that Randy Lerners takeover at Villa has probably been the best of the high profile takeovers in the Prem recently, he certainly lets the manager get on with improving the club well, and supports his decisions. This is much better than most of the others:  West Ham, Chelsea, Liverpool, Newcastle.  Man U now have mountanous debt, Man City its too early to tell, but the board seem to be setting the transfer targets already.  Only Portsmouth hass gone as well.

[slater 0]

Events at West Ham and Newcastle (and in the more distant past at Ipswich) have convinced me that "a Cullum" isn''t actually what would be in the best interests of the club or its supporters.

What we have here is far from ideal but we don''t have managers resigning because they''ve been undermined and our club controlled by shadowy representatives of Marcus Evans/Abu Dhabi investors etc.

Yes, of course I''d like the improved chance of success a new inflow of money could bring - but not at any cost.

To be honest, if we do get ''a cullum'' or ''a marcus evans'' or whatever I''ll probably start to lose interest in Norwich City, irrespective of how much on-field success they may bring. It won''t be Norwich City any more just another football investment vehicle - and I''ve got no emotional ties to one of those.

I suspect i won''t be alone - thousands of people following AFC Wimbledon and FC United have shown that it''s very easy to become so disillusioned with events at your ''old'' club that you eventually start to despise them.

[macdougalls perm 0]

[quote user="Strawberry"]

After the events of July I am not at all hopeful that our majority shareholders will let Peter Cullum come on board at any price.

If they can find someone else to plug the shortfall I wouldn''t put it past Delia to send him away with a flea in his ear a third time.  It is my belief that the Turners pulled out because they felt they were being used to keep PC at bay.  Let''s hope no one else will even contemplate stepping in to fulfil that role.

At the moment I''m not expecting anything positive to come out of this, then if it does it will be a major bonus.  I dread the thought of this club staggering on and on in intensive care but I wouldn''t rule it out.

 

[/quote]

You should be writing Agatha Christie type novels. [:)]

[bobfleck 0]

Good post slater, I agree with an awful lot you have written here.

Of course we need to aspire to be the very best we can be, but as you say, at what cost? Any success we have enjoyed over the last few years has been well and truly earnt - how would we react to supporting a team full of mercenaries who had been bankrolled to the top?

I not sure I could ever despise NCFC, but I certainly agree that the emotional attachment I feel towards them now (30 years through good and bad) would certainly change - and I can''t honestly say I feel it would be for the better.

Interesting times.

[Houston Canary 0]

Events at West Ham and Newcastle  - Slater

I didn''t realize these teams were taken over by devoted life-long fans.  I thought they were bought up by foreign investors looking for a high profile toy.  I don''t think Cullum fits that mold based on what little I do know about him.  He seems like the perfect person to tase over the team, with the team''s more immediate interests (meaning success on the field, not continuing long term development of properties near the stadium) as top priority.

[breaker2 0]

The way im looking at things is...

If Cullum were to become major sharehoder/buy the club, would he have to spend lots of money on new players? couldn''t he just set a transfer budget?

I know for instance this season, the board may have told Glenn ''look you''ve got 1million, plus anything you make from transfers to spend on all transfer activity'', so what i would like to see is rather than say being given a 20million cheque and signing a whole host of players for over inflated prices (which is what happens if clubs know you''ve got the money) is spend it here and there, when a player/s is needed and available at a good price then get them.

Basically im saying that we should look at Reading and maybe Wolves, who have some decent wealth behinnd them, and whose owners are sensible with money, and let their managers do a job.

just my thoughts.

Also Robinho...250k a week! more money than sense...well 1trillion

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="Strawberry"]

After the events of July I am not at all hopeful that our majority shareholders will let Peter Cullum come on board at any price.

If they can find someone else to plug the shortfall I wouldn''t put it past Delia to send him away with a flea in his ear a third time.  It is my belief that the Turners pulled out because they felt they were being used to keep PC at bay.  Let''s hope no one else will even contemplate stepping in to fulfil that role.

At the moment I''m not expecting anything positive to come out of this, then if it does it will be a major bonus.  I dread the thought of this club staggering on and on in intensive care but I wouldn''t rule it out.

 

[/quote]this looks credible strawb - imo its reasonable to speculate that PC and the cullums were interested in seats on the board and even buying NCFC off the smiths for a fair while now...possibly as early as the year when city first went down...it looks to me that the smiths backed the wrong horse in the turners, and will only climb into bed with cullum if its a case of hobsons choice...but with the economic downturn biting, only PC looks the real deal - a thoroughbred amongst donkeys!!!

[Bury Yellow 2]

What insults to Mr Cullum. You really can''t be for real can you?

For goodness sake get a grip. You have no idea what is going on behind the scene now or with the previous so called negotiations.

Many have the opinion that Smith/Jones have had their time. Some of it successful, some failure, mixed with excruciating embarassment.

I hope they sell and remain connected with the club in some way. I hope they sell to Mr Cullum in whatever way he wishes to procede.

The fact is he is a local lad and genuine supporter and he gives us the best chance to challenge for a top place in the Championship and hopefully to the Premier league.

If you find that objectionable then it may just be best to support another team as you imply.

[slater 0]

And to Reading and Wolves you could add Coventry, I suppose. All clubs whose new, big investor seemed to have some kind of emotional or community tie with the club they invested in.

But at Reading, Madjeski is looking to sell and the Wolves model doesn''t seem to have brought much joy to their fans - mainly because of their unrealistic aspirations.

So even if Cullum is more a Madjeski than, say, a Mandaric there''s no guarantee that you''ll be attending matches at a ''community'' club forever. And if Cullum is more of an Evans or a Bates to start with then we''re in trouble.

FWIW, I''m getting the general impression that in Cullum we may well be dealing with a Marcus Evans style figure - Waghorn''s pieces make that pretty clear.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="slater"]Events at West Ham and Newcastle (and in the more distant past at Ipswich) have convinced me that "a Cullum" isn''t actually what would be in the best interests of the club or its supporters. What we have here is far from ideal but we don''t have managers resigning because they''ve been undermined and our club controlled by shadowy representatives of Marcus Evans/Abu Dhabi investors etc. Yes, of course I''d like the improved chance of success a new inflow of money could bring - but not at any cost. To be honest, if we do get ''a cullum'' or ''a marcus evans'' or whatever I''ll probably start to lose interest in Norwich City, irrespective of how much on-field success they may bring. It won''t be Norwich City any more just another football investment vehicle - and I''ve got no emotional ties to one of those. I suspect i won''t be alone - thousands of people following AFC Wimbledon and FC United have shown that it''s very easy to become so disillusioned with events at your ''old'' club that you eventually start to despise them.[/quote]

So who exactly would be ''''in the best interests of the club''''?  In your opinion of course.  And what makes you think that PC investing money would be any worse than when Delia & MWJ took over the reins?  Just what are you scared of?

You surely aren''t comparing the likes of PC with Marcus Evans are you?

So you start to lose interest in the football club you profess to support just because a shrewd businessman decided he would very much like to see NCFC succeed better than mid-table mediocrity?  He''s a NC supporter and played for NC youth, how much more dedicated do you want the investor to be?  Or is it a simple thing such as you don''t want Delia and MWJ to leave the club?

If you decide to stop attending if it is PC investing that''s your look out, and I would say you are rather more a floating supporter that a permanent supporter that being the case.  You support the players on the pitch that wear our colours surely?

You say that other fans from AFC Wimbledon and FC united have become disillusioned with events at their club, TBH I really couldn''t care less about their club or their problems, my thoughts are with NCFC, don''t you think some NC fans are fed up and disillusioned after the past 3 or 4 years of so called football at CR and the goings on this past two years at FCR?

If you trust Delia you must surely trust her to get the right people on the board to sort our clubs finances out?

[7rew 0]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]What insults to Mr Cullum. You really can''t be for real can you?

For goodness sake get a grip. You have no idea what is going on behind the scene now or with the previous so called negotiations.

Many have the opinion that Smith/Jones have had their time. Some of it successful, some failure, mixed with excruciating embarassment.

I hope they sell and remain connected with the club in some way. I hope they sell to Mr Cullum in whatever way he wishes to procede.

The fact is he is a local lad and genuine supporter and he gives us the best chance to challenge for a top place in the Championship and hopefully to the Premier league.

If you find that objectionable then it may just be best to support another team as you imply.[/quote]Maybe trying to compare these two statements may clarify your own position for you.

[slater 0]

I hate to have to do this - because to be frank who cares - but:

a) I''ve had a season ticket for over twenty years in the Barclay

b) I was heavily involved in both the Chase Out and Worthy Out campaigns.

Ok, that''s over and done with.

I go and see Norwich City play for a number of different reasons - I like watching football, they''re my local club, it''s a good opportunity to catch up with various mates scattered around the country.

For the last three or so seasons I haven''t been going because the football has been entertaining, we''ve been winning football matches or because we''ve been a successful football team. Me and 22,000 others I suspect.

Your football team is a bit like your family - you don''t choose it, it chooses you. I got Norwich City - a medium sized football club which once in a while achieves a modicum of success on the pitch. I''m happy with that - if I''d been ''given'' Crewe Alexandra or Notts County I''d feel the same way and, in fact, I feel a lot more kinship with supporters of those teams than I do with those who are continually frustrated with the misfortunes of their ''sleeping giants'' (insert the obvious candidates here.)

The Peter Cullum episode disturbs me for a number of reasons - the main one being that in exchange for a short-term influx of cash we may be giving up a sense of community that we won''t get back again.

I don''t think there was one ounce of altruism in what Cullum was trying to do when he offered the club millions of pounds to buy players when we were at a low ebb last season - as subsequent events have shown. Why you appear to place such trust in him I have no idea.

You''re right he''s a "shrewd businessman" - good for him - but I''d rather my club was run by people who were a little less shrewd in business terms and more in touch with what it means to be a supporter of Norwich City and what the club signifies in our county and beyond.

I''ve a few Ipswich Town supporting friends and even in the midst of their good fortune they''re still aware that something they once valued about their club has changed forever and are worried about what will happen if Evans decides to take his toys back - or flog them off to someone else. To that extent, PC is similar to Evans and the current regime is different.

No, I''m not a fan of Delia & MWJ as people. In fact I''ve often been perplexed by some of their decisions while they''ve been in charge of the club - take your pick from Hamilton, the slow death of Worthington, Peter Grant, bloody yellow shorts etc, etc. But what I am a fan of is the ethos that in some almost abstract way the club is more than just a collection of business assets and calculations. It''s that ethos which must be protected.

We *are* a medium sized club and every so often we get the pot of gold that comes with promotion. For sure, I''d like us to use that windfall to ensure more success but just because we don''t/can''t/won''t doesn''t mean I automatically want to load the dice in our favour.

And as for not caring less about the events at clubs in crisis, shame on you. There but for the grace of God etc.

[Mark .Y. 352]

[quote user="slater"]And to Reading and Wolves you could add Coventry, I suppose. All clubs whose new, big investor seemed to have some kind of emotional or community tie with the club they invested in. But at Reading, Madjeski is looking to sell and the Wolves model doesn''t seem to have brought much joy to their fans - mainly because of their unrealistic aspirations. So even if Cullum is more a Madjeski than, say, a Mandaric there''s no guarantee that you''ll be attending matches at a ''community'' club forever. And if Cullum is more of an Evans or a Bates to start with then we''re in trouble. FWIW, I''m getting the general impression that in Cullum we may well be dealing with a Marcus Evans style figure - Waghorn''s pieces make that pretty clear.[/quote]

I''ve mostly steered clear of commenting on recent events as there is so little factual information around. However, that''s a pretty crap statement mate.............

Cullum played for the club as a youngster which suggests he has some emotional tie to NCFC, he funds a large charitable trust which suggests he is a pretty decent human being and from what I have read of Waghorn''s pieces - they are simply extremely biased towards Delia and MWJ and anti-Cullum.

Mark .Y.

PS There aren''t many Pompey fans that don''t hold Mandaric in great esteem, did a great job and when the time was right he handed over to his successor (also foreign) who seems to be making a reasonable fist of things.  

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="slater"]I hate to have to do this - because to be frank who cares - but:

a) I''ve had a season ticket for over twenty years in the Barclay

b) I was heavily involved in both the Chase Out and Worthy Out campaigns.

Ok, that''s over and done with.

I go and see Norwich City play for a number of different reasons - I like watching football, they''re my local club, it''s a good opportunity to catch up with various mates scattered around the country.

For the last three or so seasons I haven''t been going because the football has been entertaining, we''ve been winning football matches or because we''ve been a successful football team. Me and 22,000 others I suspect.

Your football team is a bit like your family - you don''t choose it, it chooses you. I got Norwich City - a medium sized football club which once in a while achieves a modicum of success on the pitch. I''m happy with that - if I''d been ''given'' Crewe Alexandra or Notts County I''d feel the same way and, in fact, I feel a lot more kinship with supporters of those teams than I do with those who are continually frustrated with the misfortunes of their ''sleeping giants'' (insert the obvious candidates here.)

The Peter Cullum episode disturbs me for a number of reasons - the main one being that in exchange for a short-term influx of cash we may be giving up a sense of community that we won''t get back again.

I don''t think there was one ounce of altruism in what Cullum was trying to do when he offered the club millions of pounds to buy players when we were at a low ebb last season - as subsequent events have shown. Why you appear to place such trust in him I have no idea.

You''re right he''s a "shrewd businessman" - good for him - but I''d rather my club was run by people who were a little less shrewd in business terms and more in touch with what it means to be a supporter of Norwich City and what the club signifies in our county and beyond.

I''ve a few Ipswich Town supporting friends and even in the midst of their good fortune they''re still aware that something they once valued about their club has changed forever and are worried about what will happen if Evans decides to take his toys back - or flog them off to someone else. To that extent, PC is similar to Evans and the current regime is different.

No, I''m not a fan of Delia & MWJ as people. In fact I''ve often been perplexed by some of their decisions while they''ve been in charge of the club - take your pick from Hamilton, the slow death of Worthington, Peter Grant, bloody yellow shorts etc, etc. But what I am a fan of is the ethos that in some almost abstract way the club is more than just a collection of business assets and calculations. It''s that ethos which must be protected.

We *are* a medium sized club and every so often we get the pot of gold that comes with promotion. For sure, I''d like us to use that windfall to ensure more success but just because we don''t/can''t/won''t doesn''t mean I automatically want to load the dice in our favour.

And as for not caring less about the events at clubs in crisis, shame on you. There but for the grace of God etc.[/quote]IN TERMS OF OUR ATTENDANCE RECORD THIS SEASON:-

Barclays Premier League2008-2009 Season Domestic Stats to 04-Sep-08 inclusiveAttendance Table

Team	Pld	Total	Highest	Average	Capacity		Pct
1	Arsenal (4)	2	120137	60070	60069	60432		99.3%
2	Tottenham Hotspur (19)	1	36064	36064	36064	36310		99.3%
3	Portsmouth (16)	1	20540	20540	20540	20688		99.2%
4	Manchester United (9)	1	75512	75512	75512	76212		99.0%
5	Stoke City (15)	1	27500	27500	27500	28384		96.8%
6	Hull City (12)	2	48807	24525	24404	25404		96.0%
7	Liverpool (2)	1	43168	43168	43168	45362		95.1%
8	Fulham (14)	1	25276	25276	25276	26600		95.0%
9	West Bromwich Albion (20)	1	26190	26190	26190	28003		93.5%
10	West Ham United (5)	2	65663	32905	32832	35647		92.1%
11	Newcastle United (11)	1	47711	47711	47711	52387		91.0%
12	Everton (17)	2	73093	38675	36547	40394		90.4%
13	Middlesbrough (6)	2	60250	32623	30125	35100		85.8%
14	Manchester City (3)	1	36635	36635	36635	48000		76.3%
15	Bolton Wanderers (8)	2	43104	22717	21552	28723		75.0%
16	Blackburn Rovers (10)	1	23439	23439	23439	31367		74.7%
17	Wigan Athletic (13)	1	18139	18139	18139	25138		72.1%
18	Chelsea (1)	2	41468	41468	20734	42055		49.3%
19	Aston Villa (7)	2	39955	39955	19978	42551		46.9%
20	Sunderland (18)	2	43259	43259	21630	49000		44.1%

21             NORWICH CITY                                          2           47956            24229           23978   26034           92.10%in terms of support, it seems we would be ranked in 11th place in the prem...and outa these, how many would be attracting our % of season ticket holders???so, imo we are more than a ''medium sized'' club - if the ambitions of our board matched the commitment of the fans we''d be in the prem - but if its ''little ole narrwich'' we want, its little ole naarwich we get...just like our yo-yo role models - ''little ole charlton'' - curbs tag, not mine...

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="lucky green trainers"][quote user="slater"]I hate to have to do this - because to be frank who cares - but:

a) I''ve had a season ticket for over twenty years in the Barclay

b) I was heavily involved in both the Chase Out and Worthy Out campaigns.

Ok, that''s over and done with.

I go and see Norwich City play for a number of different reasons - I like watching football, they''re my local club, it''s a good opportunity to catch up with various mates scattered around the country.

For the last three or so seasons I haven''t been going because the football has been entertaining, we''ve been winning football matches or because we''ve been a successful football team. Me and 22,000 others I suspect.

Your football team is a bit like your family - you don''t choose it, it chooses you. I got Norwich City - a medium sized football club which once in a while achieves a modicum of success on the pitch. I''m happy with that - if I''d been ''given'' Crewe Alexandra or Notts County I''d feel the same way and, in fact, I feel a lot more kinship with supporters of those teams than I do with those who are continually frustrated with the misfortunes of their ''sleeping giants'' (insert the obvious candidates here.)

The Peter Cullum episode disturbs me for a number of reasons - the main one being that in exchange for a short-term influx of cash we may be giving up a sense of community that we won''t get back again.

I don''t think there was one ounce of altruism in what Cullum was trying to do when he offered the club millions of pounds to buy players when we were at a low ebb last season - as subsequent events have shown. Why you appear to place such trust in him I have no idea.

You''re right he''s a "shrewd businessman" - good for him - but I''d rather my club was run by people who were a little less shrewd in business terms and more in touch with what it means to be a supporter of Norwich City and what the club signifies in our county and beyond.

I''ve a few Ipswich Town supporting friends and even in the midst of their good fortune they''re still aware that something they once valued about their club has changed forever and are worried about what will happen if Evans decides to take his toys back - or flog them off to someone else. To that extent, PC is similar to Evans and the current regime is different.

No, I''m not a fan of Delia & MWJ as people. In fact I''ve often been perplexed by some of their decisions while they''ve been in charge of the club - take your pick from Hamilton, the slow death of Worthington, Peter Grant, bloody yellow shorts etc, etc. But what I am a fan of is the ethos that in some almost abstract way the club is more than just a collection of business assets and calculations. It''s that ethos which must be protected.

We *are* a medium sized club and every so often we get the pot of gold that comes with promotion. For sure, I''d like us to use that windfall to ensure more success but just because we don''t/can''t/won''t doesn''t mean I automatically want to load the dice in our favour.

And as for not caring less about the events at clubs in crisis, shame on you. There but for the grace of God etc.[/quote]IN TERMS OF OUR ATTENDANCE RECORD THIS SEASON:-

Barclays Premier League2008-2009 Season Domestic Stats to 04-Sep-08 inclusiveAttendance Table

Team	Pld	Total	Highest	Average	Capacity		Pct
1	Arsenal (4)	2	120137	60070	60069	60432		99.3%
2	Tottenham Hotspur (19)	1	36064	36064	36064	36310		99.3%
3	Portsmouth (16)	1	20540	20540	20540	20688		99.2%
4	Manchester United (9)	1	75512	75512	75512	76212		99.0%
5	Stoke City (15)	1	27500	27500	27500	28384		96.8%
6	Hull City (12)	2	48807	24525	24404	25404		96.0%
7	Liverpool (2)	1	43168	43168	43168	45362		95.1%
8	Fulham (14)	1	25276	25276	25276	26600		95.0%
9	West Bromwich Albion (20)	1	26190	26190	26190	28003		93.5%
10	West Ham United (5)	2	65663	32905	32832	35647		92.1%
11	Newcastle United (11)	1	47711	47711	47711	52387		91.0%
12	Everton (17)	2	73093	38675	36547	40394		90.4%
13	Middlesbrough (6)	2	60250	32623	30125	35100		85.8%
14	Manchester City (3)	1	36635	36635	36635	48000		76.3%
15	Bolton Wanderers (8)	2	43104	22717	21552	28723		75.0%
16	Blackburn Rovers (10)	1	23439	23439	23439	31367		74.7%
17	Wigan Athletic (13)	1	18139	18139	18139	25138		72.1%
18	Chelsea (1)	2	41468	41468	20734	42055		49.3%
19	Aston Villa (7)	2	39955	39955	19978	42551		46.9%
20	Sunderland (18)	2	43259	43259	21630	49000		44.1%

21             NORWICH CITY                                          2         47956           24229          23978     26034            92.10%in terms of support, it seems we would be ranked in 11th place in the prem...and outa these, how many would be attracting our % of season ticket holders???so, imo we are more than a ''medium sized'' club - if the ambitions of our board matched the commitment of the fans we''d be in the prem - but if its ''little ole narrwich'' we want, its little ole naarwich we get...just like our yo-yo role models - ''little ole charlton'' - curbs tag, not mine...

[/quote]rejigged it, looked ok beofre posting!!!

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="lucky green trainers"][quote user="lucky green trainers"][quote user="slater"]I hate to have to do this - because to be frank who cares - but:

a) I''ve had a season ticket for over twenty years in the Barclay

b) I was heavily involved in both the Chase Out and Worthy Out campaigns.

Ok, that''s over and done with.

I go and see Norwich City play for a number of different reasons - I like watching football, they''re my local club, it''s a good opportunity to catch up with various mates scattered around the country.

For the last three or so seasons I haven''t been going because the football has been entertaining, we''ve been winning football matches or because we''ve been a successful football team. Me and 22,000 others I suspect.

Your football team is a bit like your family - you don''t choose it, it chooses you. I got Norwich City - a medium sized football club which once in a while achieves a modicum of success on the pitch. I''m happy with that - if I''d been ''given'' Crewe Alexandra or Notts County I''d feel the same way and, in fact, I feel a lot more kinship with supporters of those teams than I do with those who are continually frustrated with the misfortunes of their ''sleeping giants'' (insert the obvious candidates here.)

The Peter Cullum episode disturbs me for a number of reasons - the main one being that in exchange for a short-term influx of cash we may be giving up a sense of community that we won''t get back again.

I don''t think there was one ounce of altruism in what Cullum was trying to do when he offered the club millions of pounds to buy players when we were at a low ebb last season - as subsequent events have shown. Why you appear to place such trust in him I have no idea.

You''re right he''s a "shrewd businessman" - good for him - but I''d rather my club was run by people who were a little less shrewd in business terms and more in touch with what it means to be a supporter of Norwich City and what the club signifies in our county and beyond.

I''ve a few Ipswich Town supporting friends and even in the midst of their good fortune they''re still aware that something they once valued about their club has changed forever and are worried about what will happen if Evans decides to take his toys back - or flog them off to someone else. To that extent, PC is similar to Evans and the current regime is different.

No, I''m not a fan of Delia & MWJ as people. In fact I''ve often been perplexed by some of their decisions while they''ve been in charge of the club - take your pick from Hamilton, the slow death of Worthington, Peter Grant, bloody yellow shorts etc, etc. But what I am a fan of is the ethos that in some almost abstract way the club is more than just a collection of business assets and calculations. It''s that ethos which must be protected.

We *are* a medium sized club and every so often we get the pot of gold that comes with promotion. For sure, I''d like us to use that windfall to ensure more success but just because we don''t/can''t/won''t doesn''t mean I automatically want to load the dice in our favour.

And as for not caring less about the events at clubs in crisis, shame on you. There but for the grace of God etc.[/quote]IN TERMS OF OUR ATTENDANCE RECORD THIS SEASON:-

Barclays Premier League2008-2009 Season Domestic Stats to 04-Sep-08 inclusiveAttendance Table

Team	Pld	Total	Highest	Average	Capacity		Pct
1	Arsenal (4)	2	120137	60070	60069	60432		99.3%
2	Tottenham Hotspur (19)	1	36064	36064	36064	36310		99.3%
3	Portsmouth (16)	1	20540	20540	20540	20688		99.2%
4	Manchester United (9)	1	75512	75512	75512	76212		99.0%
5	Stoke City (15)	1	27500	27500	27500	28384		96.8%
6	Hull City (12)	2	48807	24525	24404	25404		96.0%
7	Liverpool (2)	1	43168	43168	43168	45362		95.1%
8	Fulham (14)	1	25276	25276	25276	26600		95.0%
9	West Bromwich Albion (20)	1	26190	26190	26190	28003		93.5%
10	West Ham United (5)	2	65663	32905	32832	35647		92.1%
11	Newcastle United (11)	1	47711	47711	47711	52387		91.0%
12	Everton (17)	2	73093	38675	36547	40394		90.4%
13	Middlesbrough (6)	2	60250	32623	30125	35100		85.8%
14	Manchester City (3)	1	36635	36635	36635	48000		76.3%
15	Bolton Wanderers (8)	2	43104	22717	21552	28723		75.0%
16	Blackburn Rovers (10)	1	23439	23439	23439	31367		74.7%
17	Wigan Athletic (13)	1	18139	18139	18139	25138		72.1%
18	Chelsea (1)	2	41468	41468	20734	42055		49.3%
19	Aston Villa (7)	2	39955	39955	19978	42551		46.9%
20	Sunderland (18)	2	43259	43259	21630	49000		44.1%

21             NORWICH CITY                                          2         47956           24229          23978     26034            92.10%in terms of support, it seems we would be ranked in 11th place in the prem...and outa these, how many would be attracting our % of season ticket holders???so, imo we are more than a ''medium sized'' club - if the ambitions of our board matched the commitment of the fans we''d be in the prem - but if its ''little ole narrwich'' we want, its little ole naarwich we get...just like our yo-yo role models - ''little ole charlton'' - curbs tag, not mine...

[/quote]rejigged it, looked ok beofre posting!!![/quote]ahhhhhhhhhh!!!

[nolegs 0]

[quote user="Strawberry"]

After the events of July I am not at all hopeful that our majority shareholders will let Peter Cullum come on board at any price.

If they can find someone else to plug the shortfall I wouldn''t put it past Delia to send him away with a flea in his ear a third time.  It is my belief that the Turners pulled out because they felt they were being used to keep PC at bay.  Let''s hope no one else will even contemplate stepping in to fulfil that role.

At the moment I''m not expecting anything positive to come out of this, then if it does it will be a major bonus.  I dread the thought of this club staggering on and on in intensive care but I wouldn''t rule it out.

Frankly I''m now fed up with the whole Cullum saga,if he''s serious he''ll put up ,if he''s not  he''ll shut up,and the club will look elsewhere.

 

[/quote]

[Bury Yellow 2]

Thank you 7Rew for helping me clarify my position.

At my age and with all the challenges and joys of my 62 years on this earth I''m still keen to learn.

Yeah but no but...... Sorry it''s no good I must bow to your greater intelligence and indeed, from your original post, greater knowledge of what''s going on within the walls of the Carra.

At my age and all the challenges and joys of my 62 years on this earth I''m still keen to learn

[Mello Yello 2,289]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]Thank you 7Rew for helping me clarify my position. At my age and with all the challenges and joys of my 62 years on this earth I''m still keen to learn. Yeah but no but...... Sorry it''s no good I must bow to your greater intelligence and indeed, from your original post, greater knowledge of what''s going on within the walls of the Carra. At my age and all the challenges and joys of my 62 years on this earth I''m still keen to learn[/quote]

But you write like a 40 year old! What''s your secret - and your elixir of life?[:D][;)]

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="7rew"][quote user="Strawberry"]

After the events of July I am not at all hopeful that our majority shareholders will let Peter Cullum come on board at any price.

If they can find someone else to plug the shortfall I wouldn''t put it past Delia to send him away with a flea in his ear a third time.  It is my belief that the Turners pulled out because they felt they were being used to keep PC at bay.  Let''s hope no one else will even contemplate stepping in to fulfil that role.

At the moment I''m not expecting anything positive to come out of this, then if it does it will be a major bonus.  I dread the thought of this club staggering on and on in intensive care but I wouldn''t rule it out.

 [/quote]

Hevean forbid that Delia should apply any diligence to whatever Cullum is offering.  It is entirely possible that whatever his negotiating position is it is not in the best interests of the club as well as/instead of Delia''s own interests!  I know that some people are unwilling or unable to see past the headline figure, but how would it be structured?  Is it a loan, if so at what interest rates and with what repayment terms?   The Devil, as always, is in the details.

Did you hear Doug Ellis (ex Villa owner) talking about takeovers on the today program, I

thought it offered some insight into what must be going on at borad

level now think it well worth a listen.link to the interview.He

said that he felt it was important that any takeover (once he said he''d

sell, he got loads of offers) had a preexisting connection to the club

and wasn''t borrowing money to buy the club (apparently many of the offers were financially a bad idea). He also said that he

sent Randy Lerner away the first time because he wasn''t convinced by

his connection (started supporting Villa when at Cambridge Uni) but he

came back and convinced Ellis of his commitment to the club.

[/quote]ah yes - the same doug ellis who was old school through and through, and ran into trouble each year with villa fans (and managers) over his lack of budget/ambition - until he saw the light and sold to a billionaire,,,and with the subsequent investment and Martin o''N on board enjoyed their best season  for years...i think i''ll pass on his thoughts... 

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="slater"]I hate to have to do this - because to be frank who cares - but: a) I''ve had a season ticket for over twenty years in the Barclay b) I was heavily involved in both the Chase Out and Worthy Out campaigns. Ok, that''s over and done with. I go and see Norwich City play for a number of different reasons - I like watching football, they''re my local club, it''s a good opportunity to catch up with various mates scattered around the country. For the last three or so seasons I haven''t been going because the football has been entertaining, we''ve been winning football matches or because we''ve been a successful football team. Me and 22,000 others I suspect. Your football team is a bit like your family - you don''t choose it, it chooses you. I got Norwich City - a medium sized football club which once in a while achieves a modicum of success on the pitch. I''m happy with that - if I''d been ''given'' Crewe Alexandra or Notts County I''d feel the same way and, in fact, I feel a lot more kinship with supporters of those teams than I do with those who are continually frustrated with the misfortunes of their ''sleeping giants'' (insert the obvious candidates here.) The Peter Cullum episode disturbs me for a number of reasons - the main one being that in exchange for a short-term influx of cash we may be giving up a sense of community that we won''t get back again. I don''t think there was one ounce of altruism in what Cullum was trying to do when he offered the club millions of pounds to buy players when we were at a low ebb last season - as subsequent events have shown. Why you appear to place such trust in him I have no idea. You''re right he''s a "shrewd businessman" - good for him - but I''d rather my club was run by people who were a little less shrewd in business terms and more in touch with what it means to be a supporter of Norwich City and what the club signifies in our county and beyond. I''ve a few Ipswich Town supporting friends and even in the midst of their good fortune they''re still aware that something they once valued about their club has changed forever and are worried about what will happen if Evans decides to take his toys back - or flog them off to someone else. To that extent, PC is similar to Evans and the current regime is different. No, I''m not a fan of Delia & MWJ as people. In fact I''ve often been perplexed by some of their decisions while they''ve been in charge of the club - take your pick from Hamilton, the slow death of Worthington, Peter Grant, bloody yellow shorts etc, etc. But what I am a fan of is the ethos that in some almost abstract way the club is more than just a collection of business assets and calculations. It''s that ethos which must be protected. We *are* a medium sized club and every so often we get the pot of gold that comes with promotion. For sure, I''d like us to use that windfall to ensure more success but just because we don''t/can''t/won''t doesn''t mean I automatically want to load the dice in our favour. And as for not caring less about the events at clubs in crisis, shame on you. There but for the grace of God etc.[/quote]

 

No shame on me at all, 40 years and over 20 years between myself and my other half, and of that I am proud.  I trust him just like I had to trust Delia and MWJ, everyone deserves that chance, and that includes anyone who decides they want to invest in our club.

And as for me not caring, my first priority has and always will be NCFC, don''t like it, tough as that''s my opinion.

[7rew 0]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]Thank you 7Rew for helping me clarify my position.

At my age and with all the challenges and joys of my 62 years on this earth I''m still keen to learn.

Yeah but no but...... Sorry it''s no good I must bow to your greater intelligence and indeed, from your original post, greater knowledge of what''s going on within the walls of the Carra.

At my age and all the challenges and joys of my 62 years on this earth I''m still keen to learn[/quote]Eh? what, you mean the questions that it would be good to have answers to? Or pointing out situations which are possible, rather than assuming that Cullum is definnitely a good thing?I said it was possible that Cullums offer not in our interests.  That is in no way the same thing as asserting that it definitely is not in our best interests.  It is possible that Lord Lucan is both innocent and alive or that aliens did land in Roswell and were then hushed up in Area 51.My statements concerned with the club displayed absolutely no knowledge, just a summary of what we don''t know and in particular, what may get in the way of the assumptions the original poster made and (from you intial post) you made as well - that any offer involving that headline grabbing amount of money must be a) good for the club and b) better for the club than any deal that would be negotiated using it as a start position. Or maybe your assumtion is that DS would deliberately negotiate a deal that was worse for the club?Alternatively do you mean my knowledge of a radio interview given by a man unconnected with the club and given because the Manchester City takeover?

And Lucky Green Trainers:This would be the Doug Ellis that sold to a billionaire that knows better than to undermine his managers, or change them on a whim.  There, as the likes of Newcastle and West Ham show, are plenty of billionaires who don''t do this. This would be the Doug Ellis that sold to a billionaire that knows

better than to dictate transfer targets. 

There, as the likes of Manchester City and Chelsea show, are plenty of

billionaires who don''t do this.This would be the Doug Ellis that sold to a billionaire that didn''t put his debts back onto the club when he took control. 

There, as the likes of Manchester and Liverpool show, are plenty of

billionaires who do do this.In short this would be Doug Ellis who found the right kind of billionaire to sell too.  And while some of these clubs used as examples are sucessful, the three actions are still not desireable, as most people would agree.And his advice is entirely about how to go about finding that kind of billionaire.  I''d say, whatever his track record on other decisions is, his advice on this subject is probably worth hearing.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="7rew"]And Lucky Green Trainers:This would be the Doug Ellis that sold to a billionaire that knows better than to undermine his managers, or change them on a whim.  There, as the likes of Newcastle and West Ham show, are plenty of billionaires who don''t do this. This would be the Doug Ellis that sold to a billionaire that knows

better than to dictate transfer targets. 

There, as the likes of Manchester City and Chelsea show, are plenty of

billionaires who don''t do this.This would be the Doug Ellis that sold to a billionaire that didn''t put his debts back onto the club when he took control. 

There, as the likes of Manchester and Liverpool show, are plenty of

billionaires who do do this.In short this would be Doug Ellis who found the right kind of billionaire to sell too.  And while some of these clubs used as examples are sucessful, the three actions are still not desireable, as most people would agree.And his advice is entirely about how to go about finding that kind of billionaire.  I''d say, whatever his track record on other decisions is, his advice on this subject is probably worth hearing.[/quote]undermine his managers - or change them on a whim...or to dictate transfer targets.yeah right, i''m sure all the managers who fell under the ellis axe or had their transfer targets vetoed would agree with you 7rew!!!as for the debt subject - the glaziers are doing very nicely under their model - personally, i don''t agree with it, and am with douggie boy on this one...but, i''m sure many villa fans would say the best thing ellis did in his final years at villa was selling it at the right time to a billionaire, and having the grace to know his time had come and gone...

[7rew 0]

[quote]undermine his managers - or change them on a whim...or to dictate transfer targets.yeah right, i''m sure all the managers who fell under the ellis axe or had their transfer targets vetoed would agree with you 7rew!!!as for the debt subject - the glaziers are doing very nicely under their model - personally, i don''t agree with it, and am with douggie boy on this one...but, i''m sure many villa fans would say the best thing ellis did in his final years at villa was selling it at the right time to a billionaire, and having the grace to know his time had come and gone...[/quote] Yes United are doing well, but they were doing pretty well before the Glaziers (pre 2005).  Most of their success now is argueably due to the form of Ronaldo (signed 2003), Rooney (signed 2004) and Ferdinand (signed 2002).As to the quote in red - I was more pointing out that Ellis sold to Lerner, who doesn''t do any of these things, rather than not doing them himself.I feel that any billionaire isn''t neccesarily going to have the right effect.   Just as millionaire owners come in different types, good and bad, billionaire owners will as well.  The important thing is to get a good one.   The choice is down to the current board and, to me, Ellis is an example of a past owner who got that decision right.

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="slater"]Events at West Ham and Newcastle (and in the more distant past at Ipswich) have convinced me that "a Cullum" isn''t actually what would be in the best interests of the club or its supporters.

What we have here is far from ideal but we don''t have managers resigning because they''ve been undermined and our club controlled by shadowy representatives of Marcus Evans/Abu Dhabi investors etc.

Yes, of course I''d like the improved chance of success a new inflow of money could bring - but not at any cost.

To be honest, if we do get ''a cullum'' or ''a marcus evans'' or whatever I''ll probably start to lose interest in Norwich City, irrespective of how much on-field success they may bring. It won''t be Norwich City any more just another football investment vehicle - and I''ve got no emotional ties to one of those.

I suspect i won''t be alone - thousands of people following AFC Wimbledon and FC United have shown that it''s very easy to become so disillusioned with events at your ''old'' club that you eventually start to despise them.[/quote]I have posted many times this week about people thinking Cullum is some kind of hero but your statements are equally as blinkered.I believe Cullum did state that he would expect no return on any money he put into the club.  That hardly makes the club "another football investment vehicle" does it?

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="7rew"][quote user="Strawberry"]

After the events of July I am not at all hopeful that our majority shareholders will let Peter Cullum come on board at any price.

If they can find someone else to plug the shortfall I wouldn''t put it past Delia to send him away with a flea in his ear a third time.  It is my belief that the Turners pulled out because they felt they were being used to keep PC at bay.  Let''s hope no one else will even contemplate stepping in to fulfil that role.

At the moment I''m not expecting anything positive to come out of this, then if it does it will be a major bonus.  I dread the thought of this club staggering on and on in intensive care but I wouldn''t rule it out.

 [/quote]

Hevean forbid that Delia should apply any diligence to whatever Cullum is offering. 

[/quote]

With respect that''s a separate issue from the one I was trying to make.

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Strawberry"]

After the events of July I am not at all hopeful that our majority shareholders will let Peter Cullum come on board at any price.

If they can find someone else to plug the shortfall I wouldn''t put it past Delia to send him away with a flea in his ear a third time.  It is my belief that the Turners pulled out because they felt they were being used to keep PC at bay.  Let''s hope no one else will even contemplate stepping in to fulfil that role.

At the moment I''m not expecting anything positive to come out of this, then if it does it will be a major bonus.  I dread the thought of this club staggering on and on in intensive care but I wouldn''t rule it out.

[/quote]

What absolute garbage you write Strawberry. There is no other way to describe it. MacD''s Perm suggest you should be writing Agatha Christie type novels. You''d have to hope that I wasn''t the one you had to get your script by. Even in fiction you have to inject something of substance to convince the reader you have put more than ounce of effort into your submission. Incidentally, my comments have nothing to do with how I feel about you personally.

[Bury Yellow 2]

Flippin ''eck 7rew. You''ve really got me there!

Do you know mate, that in this world there are doers and there are talkers.

I really haven''t got the time to read that lot. I''m too busy trying, with great difficulty, to make a profit for my company in order that we can pay taxes to pay for students from Manchester.

Just hope that my investment in you will be worth it.

Judging by your words, I hope you become a Conservative politician. Sadly I fear you will at least vote Labour or worse Liberal.

Note to Mello. Rock on mate. You make this board worth while!