An outsider looking in

[davetin 0]

Hello!First off, a little introduction. I''m a Newcastle fan and you may have seen me expressing my views during the live away game texts - then again you might not, that thing moves pretty quickly! Anyway, Norwich are very much my second team (I hate that phrase, basically I have friends and family who support Norwich and I take an interest!) and now with Roeder and Clarky at the helm I''m interested to see if Roeder makes the same mistakes again. Anyhow..Roeder''s main problem is motivation. At Newcastle, if we went a goal down it was game over. Against the big 4 we always performed because it''s easy for players to feel up for it agaisnt the bes teams in the country in front of the TV cameras, the rest of the time was very mediocre. What was annoying particularly was that we were dominating games for a long time and then conceding a goal out of nothing, and inevitably going on to lose. The UEFA cup run was oddly brilliant, and was only halted by a late away goal in the first leg and a shamblic display in Alkmaar, although when your manager says "I don''t see us needing to score" I was always a bit worried. How would you say things have been for you under Glen? More of the same? Or do you feel any games in winnable even once you''re behind? The Cardiff game was a pleasant surprise from that point of view!Secondly, Sibierski. This guy will run himself into the ground for you. Only problem is he gets treatment about 5 times a game and will miss one game in every 5. But a very talented player nevertheless. In the air he''s strong, he won a lot against Rio Ferdinand for us when we drew 2-2 with them up here under Roeder. What I particularly like about him is what happens when you''re not in possession. He effectively drops into midfield and harries the midfield men, the type of commitment you love to see. He''s a cult hero up here, I''ve ordered a shirt with his name on and he should do very well for you.Finally, the ownership situation. I''m in no situation to comment given our current plight, but it seems a bit of a mess for you at the moment? What happened to the takeover? And what is the current feeling towards Delia and her husband? Is it all likely to kick off or are things getting desperate? It seems Roeder has done okay in the market, Lupoli seems a bit of a coup and Hoolahan is an exciting player.Anyway sorry that went on a bit longer than I anticipated...any answers are appreciated :-)

[lucky green trainers 0]

the team does fightback under roedy - doesn''t look like motivation is a prob - he got rid of the ones he don''t like - so maybe he''s learned from experiences at newcastle and hammers...bruce expressed concerns about fitness of sibs before releasing him here - not pleased to hear he struggled for you - esp given his age now,,,worried that we are banking on sibs doing the business for us, when it appears he might struggle to play as much as we need him - as in every game!!!ouch - there''s no plan B...

[Old Boy 0]

Thanks for the input davetin. Don''t you think that Roeder was at the mercy of the players at NUFC? He relied on players like Kieron Dyer and Titus Bramble, who (apart from being ex-Ipswich) are scumbags of the highest order. It seems to me that Roeder has taken the lesson that the manager''s future is at the mercy of his players and he''s going to be tough this time round. I''m not saying Roeder''s a tactical or man-management genius, but he''s far and away the best manager we''ve had for years.

[davetin 0]

Oh don''t get me wrong, I felt sorry for Glen when he was here. He never really got a fair crack of the whip. Firstly, he did amazingly well as caretaker, taking us from 15th to 7th in 3 months. However he was never anybody''s ideal candidate due to him not being as big a name as perhaps some would like - not his fault obviously, very much the fault of some our fans who think we''re a lot bigger than we actually are.Secondly, the bloke had no luck with injuries. Players were getting injured on a daily basis - has been a problem for years admittedly, but it was ridiculous. Which brings us to Dyer, who is a scumbag yes but was excellent under Roeder, turned in some top class performances and made a big difference when he came back from injury (Portsmouth at home, Alkmaar at home, Arsenal away off just off the top of my head) The rest of the time, Roeder was having to throw kids into the first team which eventually proved his undoing, the 5-1 mauling at home to Brum in the cup being due tired kids and a small squad, then Huntington (now at Leeds) being ripped apart in Alkmaar.Thirdly, our best player during the caretaker spell was Charles N''Zogbia. As you''ll have seen from Roeder''s comments the other day, Shepherd went out and bid for Duff (who plays in Zg''s position) above the manager''s head. Duff took Zog''s place, was woeful, Zog lost confidence at losing his place when showing signs of becoming real quality and hasn''t really recovered since. Then of course you have to consider that Roeder had to replace Alan Shearer - not just on the field but in the dugout. To top it all off, Owen had just been crippled playing in some tournament in Germany. Martins was bought (at £10m in today''s market it''s a snip, he''s got a lot to learn but he''ll get there) Rossi on loan from Man Utd, and Sibierski, which was met with pessimism but turned out to be a nice little buy. Roeder definitely has the ability, some of the results he got with us were impressive, the win at Spurs, a point at the Emirates and getting 3 points in Palermo (as well as good wins at home to Celta Vigo & Fenerbahce) but unfortunately it was too much for him all to do in a short space of time and after the UEFA cup exit in March the season was over, the players stopped playing and the fans, as usual, became furious. However, it was time for him to go, he had lost the dressing room but as you mentioned, he was dealing with big ego''s. He''s also a really nice guy and I think he could do well with Norwich but as the first reply mentioned, if Sibierski is seen as the "missing piece of the jigsaw" then there''ll be problems, as the guy collects his fair share of knocks. I can''t speak high enough of him when he''s on the pitch, exactly the type of player you want in your squad.

[a1canary 0]

Hi Dave, good to hear from a Newcastle fan, given what we have in common with Roeder and our respective boardroom disasters! Although to here a geordie fan say we''re in a mess at boardroom level is quite funny! Not meaning that to sound annoyed, just that i have been feeling genuinely sorry for Newcastle fans this week because of the Ashley/Keegan/Wise mess, not to mention all the messes previously, and thanking god it''s not that bad for us! Well, i hope not - at least we don''t have the ridiculous technical director situation.

As for Roeder, he''s not very nice i don''t think. He can be unreasonable and stubborn and can have his favourites, or rather his least favourites, which if you are unfortunate to become, you are unlikely to ever be able to get back on his good side. Having said that, we don''t pay him to be nice, he has booted out most of the people he doesn''t like and surrounded himself in people he does like and who like him, so i guess that''s one way to make a good team. I think he''s taking his cue from Margaret Thatcher! He''s also tactically aware, certainly at this level anyway and far more than any other manager we''ve had recently so that''s quite a novelty for City fans!

Newcastle fans i know say he tended to towards the young kids rather than the big names and bring them on if he can - we had high hopes he would do the same with ours, but unfortunately he soon discovered most were sh*t and set about shipping most of them out that he could and telling the rest who were on contracts that they weren''t fit to wear the shirt! Whether he can shake up our academy and start it producing some talent we''ll have to wait and see.

Overall, like i say, i don''t particularly like him as a person but he is exactly the medicine we need at our club and i definitely want him to stay and carry on what he has started. It would be a total disaster if he left a la Keegan but i think his realtionship with our board is rather better than Keegan''s was with the fools Ashley and Wise. One question on Ashley, he''s not a Geordie is he. That must really count against him up there. Do you know how he came to be a Newcastle fan? You wonder how dedicated he really is to the club when you read about him swigging Champagne in New York while others were negotiating with Keegan.

[davetin 0]

Ashley''s a London boy, and is good mates with Wise, Redknapp (hence why he tried to get him as manager, in the hope he''d agree to all this board room shenanigans) and Daniel Levy the Spurs chairman. He came out and categorically denied being a Spurs fan, get the impression he was too busy for football what with being a billionaire but when he saw we were available decided to go for it. To be fair, he''s been loved since he got here as he did so much right, he even got Keegan back and the mood up here between January and Monday has been so much better. Then it''s all fell apart and everybody is flat, I wouldn''t be shocked to see us in the Championship next year. It''s so hard to hate him because he''s wiped out millions of pounds of debt and was generally doing a good job of things, bring back Keegan made him a hero. But it seems it''s all been taken away from us and if he has any sense he''ll sell and realise he''s not cut out for running a football club.As for Roeder favouring the youth, it''s mainly because:a) He worked with the youth team prior to becoming caretaker, so he knew some of the players like Pattison, Huntington & Edgar and if they were cut out for the first team or not.and b) We had so many injuries he had no other choice. At one stage all 4 of our keepers were injured, including the stop gap signing of Srnicek. You couldn''t make it up!

[gazzathegreat 0]

Hi Dave

Thanks for your very interesting post and background into what Roeder did at Newcastle.

We have on occasion (rather too many) gone a goal or two behind and we have got back into the game. We are all of different opinion on the man. As a manager of football he''s the best we have had for many years and the way he wants to play has my full approval. His way of handling criticism is rather less successful - his handling of a local media presenter''s views on our then top player Huckerby being a case in point. Of course no one is perfect and he''s infinitely preferable to his predecessor.

The views on Sibierski are very welcome, his signing has got me excited and I can''t wait to see him play. Lupoli is indeed promising too. We have the makings of a very good team but need extra investment as most of them are loans.

I am very sorry to hear of what''s happening to your club. I have to say that visiting Newcastle was always one of my top away games, never a dull match and you as a group of supporters are amongst the best in the land. On our last visit (cup game) one of your pubs had even decked out tables with city scarves for us and free drinks. Can''t remember that sort of treatment too often.

Our takeoever? Well we don''t really know what''s happening and I think we will have to wait to see. Also difficult to gauge opinion on Delia. Most fans I think are grateful to her for what she''s done, but can see mistakes have been made and in reality she doesn''t have enough money to keep us challenging for top six in the Championship.

Roeder I think has a point to prove to the football world, I am not sure we were his first choice but he does seem to genuinely like the club and the board whom he says fully support him. Fans views are mixed, he''s not really had much time with his own players to form a really objective opinion as a whole.

I hope all the turmoil at Newcastle can be resolved. Football is changing rapidly, not for the better in the majority of cases.

[davetin 0]

Thanks for answering my questions [:)] More farcical stuff from the Newcastle "board" tonight, just when things couldn''t get much worse they seemingly have. Grumble.I think you''re right about Roeder having a point to prove, that was very much how I saw him here, I was well pleased for him when he won at Upton Park with us with their fans singing ridiculous things at him. Unfortunately our club is too much of a mess and really needs overhauling from top to bottom, if Ashley had come along 3 or 4 years ago everything would be fine but instead the "saving money" phase has left us and it''s time to splash the cash to improve, and we haven''t. The Championship seems more open than ever this year, I fancy Birmingham to win it but the other 23 places could go to any team in any order, let''s just hope Norwich are nearer the top because it''s too big of a club to be in the second tier of English Football when teams like Hull, Wigan, Stoke and Sunderland ([;)]) are up there.Oh and please, take Shola off our hands when you get chance!

[Rupethebear 0]

Hi Dave, Always good to see a visitor, really sorry with all the continued turmoil at NU. Such a shame, it''s always the fans who suffer and you guys have suffered more than most!! Trouble is you may struggle to get the right man now as I reckon it must be the hardest job in football.

All the best, away the lads!

Rupert

[canary cherub 1]

Cheers pal, my commiserations what a bloody mess.  Takes me back to 1995 when Martin O''Neill (hero ex-City player) walked after five months in charge at CR because Chairman Chase (Freddie''s mate) wanted to dictate who he could and couldn''t sign, so there''s nothing new about this unfortunately.  We were 3rd in the table at the time and it was only two years since we were beating Bayern Munich, just think what could have happened if Martin had stayed and Chase had backed him. 

17th December 1995 is a day that will live in infamy, and so is 4th September 2008.  I really hope you bounce back and the future is brighter for you than it''s been for us.

 

[Robsta 0]

[quote user="davetin"]Thanks for answering my questions [:)]

Oh and please, take Shola off our hands when you get chance!
[/quote]

No bloody chance dave........we(sorry I) dont want him!

["6 ft 2, eyes are blue Duncan Forbes is after you" 0]

Until NUFC finally decide to see the long game, they will continue to receive no success unfortunately.

When KK joined again, my very first thought was he would not be there long because that''s his style. When the heat is on or he doesn''t get his way - he walks. 

GR should not have been dumped and more recently, big Sam should not have been dumped.  

NU''s lost is City''s gain. GR has done a great job so far in keeping us up and now as the current season starts to develop, we will move up the table.  

[davetin 0]

Nobody wants Shola!....well Ipswich maybe. He''s really absolutely awful.Thank you all for the kind words about NUFC, it really is a "poison chalice" and I can only see it getting worse now. We''ll probably get Poyet or one of the Jimenez/Vetere''s Spanish mates...I''ll be amazed if we finish top half. Any manager needs time, more than a season anyway. I don''t think Keegan is blameless in all of this, but we''ll probably never know for sure. Things were actually going well, that''s the most gutting thing. Under Roeder, Souness, Allardyce, Gullit, Dalglish - things were pretty dismal. Interesting to see the comparisons between NUFC and NCFC, I hope Roeder is the man to get you back where you belong, I can see the general opinion is that he has every chance of challenging for it.

[hogesar 9,609]

Im glad we didn''t buy Shola in this window, juding by what you and other NUFC fans have said.I''ve always liked Newcastle as a club; but its interesting how opinions of Roeder change between your fans. Your opinion is pretty much spot on with mine, however is that the general opinion of your fan base? Because others seem to hate him and a few seem to be in awe of him!It''s sad to see a club go through so many managers; but its so hard for me to comment on Keegan''s departure, since i can only go by Sky Sports News - Enough said. (:

[HOCKEYMYHERO 0]

I have worked in your area in the past  [everest factory ] and enjoyed the real banter between you and the mackems fans , you clearly live the magpies from dawn till dusk , you deserve better than this mess that now faces you [ the performance against man.u  was superb ] and i really thought you would have a much improved season  [ now ? ] anyway good luck .......................

As for Glenn i think this club really suits him it seems almost made for him in my humble opinion , he has changed almost the complete squad [ and it really did need changing ] to a group of quality players and if this boardroom trouble can get resolved before he thinks of walking we can really go places  [ and yes i do believe that ] .

Some fans have moaned  because he has spoken publicly of some performances and where improvement is needed , i like his approach and some previous teams here could have done with the same type of managing , i think the proof is that players who have played for his teams before seem very pleased to play for HIM again to me that  says a lot .

 

[Bury Yellow 2]

Hi Dave I would like to join the ''love in'' !!

Many thanks for your posts. Really interesting especially for me. My father was a geordie who lived down south for many years but lost most of his accent unfortunately.

A wonderful area and my grandparents typified all that is good about the people up there.

My Bury Yella''s and me never give up an opportunity to visit St James. We are always well treated and it is by far and away our best ground to visit.

Good luck for the rest of the season

[Chip20 69]

Hi, Dave. Thank you for your lengthy contributions and observations. It''s always nice to get the perspectives of other fans, as the same few points and arguments get recycled countless times on this forum. Do hang around and add your thoughts whenever you please.I take an interest in Newcastle''s progress myself, as I married a geordie lass and my in-laws are nearly all Newcastle fans (except my father-in-law, who supports Sunderland  to be different). I wish the team all the best for this current campaign. Off-the-pitch problems almost always cause difficulties among the players too, so I hope both our clubs get their act together quickly.Best wishes.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="davetin"]Nobody wants Shola!....well Ipswich maybe. He''s really absolutely awful.

[/quote]

That from a Newcastle fan. I told you all he was crap! I hope Ipswich do buy him so everyone can laugh at the carthorse he is.

All the best for the Season dave, bet you were cheering us on when we beat sunderland in the milk cup final 85 eh?

[davetin 0]

Thank you all for the kind words about NUFC....it''s nice to hear some positive things about us from rival fans, I sometimes think everybody hates us (and understandbly so, given that the fans who voice their opinions on SSN and the like are 9/10 the worst type of fan) and to be honest it can''t help that we''re always being mentioned as either having an injury crisis or having not won a trophy for 39 years.Arthur, I would have been cheering you on in 85 if I''d been alive, I was however very happy when you beat them on your way to winning the very last First Division and of course a few years ago through Earnshaw''s goal, good times.In answer to your question hogesar, the general opinion is that he was a nice guy but just not good enough to handle the pressure. Also he never knew his best 11, and when he had to actually pick a team we struggled. When the injuries were so bad we barely had 11 fit players, we went through our best spell. The biggest contrast of his time here was playing some wonderful football in a 4-2 win over Alkmaar at SJP, then going to Alkmaar a week later with the pressure on and we were abject. Football I guess.At least he''s had time at Carrow to get his team together, HIS team with players he wants, whereas at NUFC he didn''t really get much chance to spend. There was a feeling that Shepherd just didn''t trust Roeder enough to let him cut loose in the market - Martins being the exception but Owen''s compensation money paid for that.I''m hoping to get to a Norwich game this season, preferrably one of the away games at Doncaster/Barnsley/either of the Sheffield clubs and it''ll be less to travel for me but away tickets are obviously harder to get. What are my chances?

[......and Smith must score. 1,331]

[quote user="davetin"]..............I''m hoping to get to a Norwich game this season, preferrably one of the away games at Doncaster/Barnsley/either of the Sheffield clubs and it''ll be less to travel for me but away tickets are obviously harder to get. What are my chances?
[/quote]

Hi davetin. Thanks for your comments about NUFC /NCFC. There''s one or two sensible supporters of other clubs on this board and it''s good to see their perspective on things too.

Regarding tickets I doubt you''ll have any problem at all. We always get plenty of tickets for Barnsley and  the Sheffield clubs which are all Saturday games. Our game at Donny has been moved to the last Friday in January so there''ll probably be tickets available there too

Barnsley on the 27th September might be a good choice. In recent years we''ve won there more often than not.....

[Blue 0]

He relied on players like Kieron Dyer and Titus Bramble, who (apart from being ex-Ipswich) are scumbags of the highest order

I don''t do this often as I think most (but definiately not all) professional footballers set extremly bad examples, but I do think that Kieron Dyer gets unwarranted bad press. Looking at the other side of him (and yes he has made some high profile mistakes in the past), he: sponsors most of the ITFC acadamy non-league matches including the recent one against Man utd, is paying for a suffolk gymnasts'' expenses all the way through to the 2012 olympics and also sponsors a local sunday league team, so he is actually one of the footballers that is putting something back, and I think that for this he should at least deserve a little bit of recognition.

Re Titus Bramble, it may also be a little known fact that when we were in administration, the U18s were to have their participation in a tournement in Holland(?) cancelled sue to lack of funding, but Kieron, Titus and Darren Ambrose (all at Newcastle at the time) stepped in and paid the full cost so they could still go, as they felt from thier experience of the same when they were youths, it was important in a players development.

Just thought I ought to address the balance a little as these things often don''t get publicised.... 

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Blue"]

He relied on players like Kieron Dyer and Titus Bramble, who (apart from being ex-Ipswich) are scumbags of the highest order

I don''t do this often as I think most (but definiately not all) professional footballers set extremly bad examples, but I do think that Kieron Dyer gets unwarranted bad press. Looking at the other side of him (and yes he has made some high profile mistakes in the past), he: sponsors most of the ITFC acadamy non-league matches including the recent one against Man utd, is paying for a suffolk gymnasts'' expenses all the way through to the 2012 olympics and also sponsors a local sunday league team, so he is actually one of the footballers that is putting something back, and I think that for this he should at least deserve a little bit of recognition.

 

[/quote]

Good old Dyer.. i suppose we cant give him a "roasting" for that then...

jas :)

[davetin 0]

Didn''t know that about Dyer, good to hear though I guess.

......and Smith must score.

- Thanks for the ticket advice [:)]

[lobstercatcher2 0]

[quote user="Blue"]

He relied on players like Kieron Dyer and Titus Bramble, who (apart from being ex-Ipswich) are scumbags of the highest order

I don''t do this often as I think most (but definiately not all) professional footballers set extremly bad examples, but I do think that Kieron Dyer gets unwarranted bad press. Looking at the other side of him (and yes he has made some high profile mistakes in the past), he: sponsors most of the ITFC acadamy non-league matches including the recent one against Man utd, is paying for a suffolk gymnasts'' expenses all the way through to the 2012 olympics and also sponsors a local sunday league team, so he is actually one of the footballers that is putting something back, and I think that for this he should at least deserve a little bit of recognition.

Re Titus Bramble, it may also be a little known fact that when we were in administration, the U18s were to have their participation in a tournement in Holland(?) cancelled sue to lack of funding, but Kieron, Titus and Darren Ambrose (all at Newcastle at the time) stepped in and paid the full cost so they could still go, as they felt from thier experience of the same when they were youths, it was important in a players development.

Just thought I ought to address the balance a little as these things often don''t get publicised.... 

[/quote]Its a real shame that stuff like this doesn''t make back page headlines,my opinion of dyer and bramble has changed completely,they might be ex scummers but in my book they are ok