Big target man obsession

[Disco Dale 0]

All this talk about needing a"big target man" is like being stuck in a football time warp 20 years ago.First of all it suggests a long ball game, nothing wrong with that but its easier to create chances if you can pass well.I prefere a second striker who plays between the lines.He does not have to be big , but  have a high level of awareness and creativity.A role I think is ideally suited to Hoolahan.Plus you want players like him  close to the oppenents goal.A big striker is handy if we are chasing a game but in the team full time it will encourage our full backs to lump it forward even more often.   

[ncfcstar 342]

Dale have you seen us play this season?

We need a big man in order for someone to be there to hold the ball up, without him, unless we play the perfect through ball, the ball just comes straight back at us from the opposing defence.

It is not a case of playing hoof ball, but a case of being able to keep possession in the final third and have someone that our other strikers can feed off.

[the duke of norfolk 0]

[quote user="Disco Dale"]All this talk about needing a"big target man" is like being stuck in a football time warp 20 years ago.First of all it suggests a long ball game, nothing wrong with that but its easier to create chances if you can pass well.I prefere a second striker who plays between the lines.He does not have to be big , but  have a high level of awareness and creativity.A role I think is ideally suited to Hoolahan.Plus you want players like him  close to the oppenents goal.A big striker is handy if we are chasing a game but in the team full time it will encourage our full backs to lump it forward even more often.   [/quote]

This is balls.

What some people don''t seem to realise is that when they here the word target man they automatically think of a big, immobile lump who has little skill and pace and who can only out muscle defenders and win headers. These people conjure up images of Iwan Roberts, Steve Howard, Dele Adebola, Mamidy Sadibe etc.

We don''t want one of those types of players.

What Roeder wants is a forward who can win balls in the air, put pressure on the centre backs and be a threat from set pieces. This player can have skill as well and play football on the ground and that is why Roeder is chasing Iversen.

Just because you play with a striker who has a bit of a prescence doesn''t mean that you are going to play hoof ball (which is what you are fearing) it just means that you have added an extra dimension to your play. Every team in English football needs this type of player or else you are too one dimensional and by that i mean that all you play is pretty, passing football which isn''t always enough.

Get over your irrational fears about hoof ball, as i guarantee you even when we do sign our big striker we will still play the majority of our football  on the deck.

[Grumpy Old Blogger 0]

[quote user="Disco Dale"]All this talk about needing a"big target man" is like being stuck in a football time warp 20 years ago.First of all it suggests a long ball game, nothing wrong with that but its easier to create chances if you can pass well.I prefere a second striker who plays between the lines.He does not have to be big , but  have a high level of awareness and creativity.A role I think is ideally suited to Hoolahan.Plus you want players like him  close to the oppenents goal.A big striker is handy if we are chasing a game but in the team full time it will encourage our full backs to lump it forward even more often.   [/quote]

 

Someone - one day - maybe - will get out of this league by playing football with two small strikers. But it isn''t going to be this year and it isn''t going to be us and that''s all that interests me.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Disco Dale"]All this talk about needing a"big target man" is like being stuck in a football time warp 20 years ago.First of all it suggests a long ball game, nothing wrong with that but its easier to create chances if you can pass well.I prefere a second striker who plays between the lines.He does not have to be big , but  have a high level of awareness and creativity.A role I think is ideally suited to Hoolahan.Plus you want players like him  close to the oppenents goal.A big striker is handy if we are chasing a game but in the team full time it will encourage our full backs to lump it forward even more often.   [/quote]

 

A target man is needed for two main reasons:

1. A big man allows a variation of attacking style.If quality defenders find themselves playing against strikers who lack physical presence but have pace they will swiftly start to drop off by a yard or two to negate the pace element and look to put in a few crunching challenges as the player turns.If they have a physical element to deal with it gives them much more to think about and they find it harder to develop a rhythm to their game.

2. You are not always in control of a game.In those circumstances a physical outlet who can chase clearances and hold the ball up until support arrives can give the defence vital recovery time and relieve pressure.If the ball just keeps coming back your defence is eventually ground down.

I accept that we don''t necessarily need a 6'' 6 meateater,but we need someone a bit more physical than we currently have,and I''m coming round to the thought that JFH could do a pretty decent short term job for us.

[cjsallstars 0]

Disco Dale, please take 1000 lines for trying to inject some realism into things. Well said.

[Robert N. LiM 6,282]

Disco Dale is wrong about this, although he was a great player in his time.All the replies so far detail exactly why we need someone who can hold the ball up.ColinJohnson, you have an odd idea about what realism is, although the fact you think it can be injected might lead to an explanation.

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

most of us aren''t suggesting a big lump to play long balls up to, we want somebody who is strong and good with his back to goal so that balls can be played into his feet enabling offers to support and play around him, it''s clear to see that we need somebody who can do this because at the moment we''re dominating games but Clingan, Fotheringham or Hoolahan pick the ball up and play it into Cureton, Lupoli or Koroma only for them to be pushed off of the ball, or the midfield just passes sideways because of this

[Blofield Canary 12]

Just remind me who is the big target man playing up front for a fairly succesfull Manchester United Team.

[Grumpy Old Blogger 0]

Rudd an Nistolroy!

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Disco Dale"]All this talk about needing a"big target man" is like being stuck in a football time warp 20 years ago.First of all it suggests a long ball game, nothing wrong with that but its easier to create chances if you can pass well.I prefere a second striker who plays between the lines.He does not have to be big , but  have a high level of awareness and creativity.A role I think is ideally suited to Hoolahan.Plus you want players like him  close to the oppenents goal.A big striker is handy if we are chasing a game but in the team full time it will encourage our full backs to lump it forward even more often.   [/quote]It suggests your idea of a target man is 20 years out of date.Adebayor, Torres, Carew, Berbatov are all examples of players who can hold the ball up and bring others into the game.  Nothing 1980s about any of them except maybe Berbatov''s hairstyle.

[Mello Yello 2,572]

"We need.......HELLBOY!  [6]   As long as his horns remain filed flat - and he tucks his tail in his shorts. He''s the one to take us onwards and upwards.........(Not sure about Glenn letting him smoke cigars though?)

Anyone seen it yet?.....

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

"We need.......HELLBOY!  [6]   As long as his horns remain filed flat - and he tucks his tail in his shorts. He''s the one to take us onwards and upwards.........(Not sure about Glenn letting him smoke cigars though?)

Anyone seen it yet?.....

[/quote]Not yet, maybe tomorrow.We could sign Shrek though, he''d win a few in the air.

[7rew 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

"We need.......HELLBOY!  [6]   As long as his horns remain filed flat - and he tucks his tail in his shorts. He''s the one to take us onwards and upwards.........(Not sure about Glenn letting him smoke cigars though?)

Anyone seen it yet?.....

[/quote]Not yet, maybe tomorrow.We could sign Shrek though, he''d win a few in the air.[/quote]Man Utd might want to hang on to him.  He does play for England after all.He''s not really a target man either - see Utd trying to buy Berbatov.

[Campbell 0]

Just because you have a ''target man'' doesn''t mean you have to lump it up to his head.

You want to be able to play the ball up to the final third, and for it to stick up there. Most important of all, a target man has to be physically strong. You can have 5''10" and 6''7" target men...as long as they keep hold of it when it gets to them and battle well in the air, you can''t go far wrong. 

Every successful team has one...

[pak mei 0]

[quote user="Disco Dale"]All this talk about needing a"big target man" is like being stuck in a football time warp 20 years ago.First of all it suggests a long ball game, nothing wrong with that but its easier to create chances if you can pass well.I prefere a second striker who plays between the lines.He does not have to be big , but  have a high level of awareness and creativity.A role I think is ideally suited to Hoolahan.Plus you want players like him  close to the oppenents goal.A big striker is handy if we are chasing a game but in the team full time it will encourage our full backs to lump it forward even more often.   [/quote]

I think glen Roeder would agree with you. He could of brought in somebody of the Howard mould at any time but he has shown that he''s only interested in players that have quality.

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

[quote user="jbghost"]Just remind me who is the big target man playing up front for a fairly succesfull Manchester United Team.[/quote]

we''ve got players like Scholes, Carrick and Anderson in midfield and Ferdinand in defence [:)]

anyway they don''t have midgets up top, last time i saw Ronaldo was big and strong and Rooney and Tevez weren''t slight either

[Disco Dale 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Disco Dale"]All this talk about needing a"big target man" is like being stuck in a football time warp 20 years ago.First of all it suggests a long ball game, nothing wrong with that but its easier to create chances if you can pass well.I prefere a second striker who plays between the lines.He does not have to be big , but  have a high level of awareness and creativity.A role I think is ideally suited to Hoolahan.Plus you want players like him  close to the oppenents goal.A big striker is handy if we are chasing a game but in the team full time it will encourage our full backs to lump it forward even more often.   [/quote]

It suggests your idea of a target man is 20 years out of date.

Adebayor, Torres, Carew, Berbatov are all examples of players who can hold the ball up and bring others into the game.  Nothing 1980s about any of them except maybe Berbatov''s hairstyle.

[/quote]

Any one of them would do nicely Mister Chops.

[Disco Dale 0]

[quote user="Campbell"]

Just because you have a ''target man'' doesn''t mean you have to lump it up to his head.

You want to be able to play the ball up to the final third, and for it to stick up there. Most important of all, a target man has to be physically strong. You can have 5''10" and 6''7" target men...as long as they keep hold of it when it gets to them and battle well in the air, you can''t go far wrong. 

Every successful team has one...

[/quote]

Everybody keeps saying "big target man".Someone posted the other day that they would rather have a big target man than Albert Luque.

[ncfcstar 342]

Dale perhaps you should understand from the answers that you have received on this thread exactly what people mean by a target man. Campbell hasn''t got it far wrong.

And do you honestly think Luque will come here?

[Disco Dale 0]

[quote user="ncfcstar"]Dale perhaps you should understand from the answers that you have received on this thread exactly what people mean by a target man. Campbell hasn''t got it far wrong. And do you honestly think Luque will come here?[/quote]

Luque will never come here I was just saying what had been said.Everybody keeps saying he wont just be a big guy to lump it forward to but we will see.

[scott 0]

[quote user="the duke of norfolk"]

[quote user="Disco Dale"]All this talk about needing a"big target man" is like being stuck in a football time warp 20 years ago.First of all it suggests a long ball game, nothing wrong with that but its easier to create chances if you can pass well.I prefere a second striker who plays between the lines.He does not have to be big , but  have a high level of awareness and creativity.A role I think is ideally suited to Hoolahan.Plus you want players like him  close to the oppenents goal.A big striker is handy if we are chasing a game but in the team full time it will encourage our full backs to lump it forward even more often.   [/quote]

This is balls.

What some people don''t seem to realise is that when they here the word target man they automatically think of a big, immobile lump who has little skill and pace and who can only out muscle defenders and win headers. These people conjure up images of Iwan Roberts, Steve Howard, Dele Adebola, Mamidy Sadibe etc.

We don''t want one of those types of players.

What Roeder wants is a forward who can win balls in the air, put pressure on the centre backs and be a threat from set pieces. This player can have skill as well and play football on the ground and that is why Roeder is chasing Iversen.

Just because you play with a striker who has a bit of a prescence doesn''t mean that you are going to play hoof ball (which is what you are fearing) it just means that you have added an extra dimension to your play. Every team in English football needs this type of player or else you are too one dimensional and by that i mean that all you play is pretty, passing football which isn''t always enough.

Get over your irrational fears about hoof ball, as i guarantee you even when we do sign our big striker we will still play the majority of our football  on the deck.

[/quote] The sort of player you suggested Norwich don''t want are exactly who we do need although I agree with the rest of your post.

 

Iwan Roberts is one of the most successfull strikers we''ve ever had at the club. He could hold the ball up, great aeriel ability, physical presense and could play nice passing football as well - How I wish we had a similar player at the club now!

 

Dele Adebola or Sidibe would of done a terrific job for Norwich although not pretty their physical play would of been more successfull than much of what we''ve seen in recent times!

 

Without a physical presense, its rare that a player will make the grade at Champinoship level. We''ve seen that recently with the Jarvis bros and other lightweight out of our academy. Loanee Ched Evans was successful largely because of his physical presense and likewise fellow loanee Gibbs was poor cause he was so weak. Obviously more than physical atributes are needed as well but we already have plenty of finnesse within our 1st team squad, just need more height and physical presense in the final 3rd.

 

I get sick and tired of hearing about "I couldn''t watch Stoke every week with their long ball stuff" particularly from a so called expert like Neil Adams. If you looked at it realisticly Stoke play more effective football than us and are only direct in the final 3rd which is the very area where being direct is neccessary. We aren''t direct enough and don''t get the ball into the opposing penalty box enough which is where most goals are scored from. For instance having a player with a long throw is a great asset to have and a long throw into the box is as good as a corner and is more effective than short throws near the corner flag. They don''t play any less football than us in midfield and out of defense.

 

This notion about Norwich playing such wonderful football is garbage. I didn''t see much last season and this season we have played some neat passing football - albeit sideways and backwards with no  penetration and mostly poor attacking play which means its been largely ineffective.

 

If we can get Norwich playing effective football, which is neat keep pocession play in defense and midfield with a direct approach up front with an end product which is high league placings with more wins than defeats, I''ll be happy!

[Disco Dale 0]

[quote user="scott"][quote user="the duke of norfolk"]

[quote user="Disco Dale"]All this talk about needing a"big target man" is like being stuck in a football time warp 20 years ago.First of all it suggests a long ball game, nothing wrong with that but its easier to create chances if you can pass well.I prefere a second striker who plays between the lines.He does not have to be big , but  have a high level of awareness and creativity.A role I think is ideally suited to Hoolahan.Plus you want players like him  close to the oppenents goal.A big striker is handy if we are chasing a game but in the team full time it will encourage our full backs to lump it forward even more often.   [/quote]

This is balls.

What some people don''t seem to realise is that when they here the word target man they automatically think of a big, immobile lump who has little skill and pace and who can only out muscle defenders and win headers. These people conjure up images of Iwan Roberts, Steve Howard, Dele Adebola, Mamidy Sadibe etc.

We don''t want one of those types of players.

What Roeder wants is a forward who can win balls in the air, put pressure on the centre backs and be a threat from set pieces. This player can have skill as well and play football on the ground and that is why Roeder is chasing Iversen.

Just because you play with a striker who has a bit of a prescence doesn''t mean that you are going to play hoof ball (which is what you are fearing) it just means that you have added an extra dimension to your play. Every team in English football needs this type of player or else you are too one dimensional and by that i mean that all you play is pretty, passing football which isn''t always enough.

Get over your irrational fears about hoof ball, as i guarantee you even when we do sign our big striker we will still play the majority of our football  on the deck.

[/quote] The sort of player you suggested Norwich don''t want are exactly who we do need although I agree with the rest of your post.

 

Iwan Roberts is one of the most successfull strikers we''ve ever had at the club. He could hold the ball up, great aeriel ability, physical presense and could play nice passing football as well - How I wish we had a similar player at the club now!

 

Dele Adebola or Sidibe would of done a terrific job for Norwich although not pretty their physical play would of been more successfull than much of what we''ve seen in recent times!

 

Without a physical presense, its rare that a player will make the grade at Champinoship level. We''ve seen that recently with the Jarvis bros and other lightweight out of our academy. Loanee Ched Evans was successful largely because of his physical presense and likewise fellow loanee Gibbs was poor cause he was so weak. Obviously more than physical atributes are needed as well but we already have plenty of finnesse within our 1st team squad, just need more height and physical presense in the final 3rd.

 

I get sick and tired of hearing about "I couldn''t watch Stoke every week with their long ball stuff" particularly from a so called expert like Neil Adams. If you looked at it realisticly Stoke play more effective football than us and are only direct in the final 3rd which is the very area where being direct is neccessary. We aren''t direct enough and don''t get the ball into the opposing penalty box enough which is where most goals are scored from. For instance having a player with a long throw is a great asset to have and a long throw into the box is as good as a corner and is more effective than short throws near the corner flag. They don''t play any less football than us in midfield and out of defense.

 

This notion about Norwich playing such wonderful football is garbage. I didn''t see much last season and this season we have played some neat passing football - albeit sideways and backwards with no  penetration and mostly poor attacking play which means its been largely ineffective.

 

If we can get Norwich playing effective football, which is neat keep pocession play in defense and midfield with a direct approach up front with an end product which is high league placings with more wins than defeats, I''ll be happy!

[/quote]

Quality post scott.I agree with you about stoke ,there is nothing wrong with long balls trying to pick some out etc.Whenever I watch Norwich when we have got a big target man in the team everything is just launched forward in the general direction of him.The defenders love it because it is the easy risk free option for them.I dont think Norwich play wonderful football either, but what is wonderful football?Teams get labeled by the media as either a passing side or long ball team ,one or the other when the reality is the successful teams are a bit of both.Another phrase that so called experts use is "they try to play the game in the right way" what is the right way?Winning games is the right way I say. But I dont buy into this theory that when we get a "big target man" we will automaticly win games and everything will be wonderful.