If, as seems likely, we fail to sign a decent 'big man'...

[Puzzy magnet 0]

who would the fans blame more? The board or Roeder?

It''s the board for me.

 

 

 

[Syteanric 1]

both have to take the blame.

jas :)

[TheCardinal 0]

So never mind the shortage of players of this stature, the prevalent transfer market conditions or the countless other reasons, it has to be either the board or Roeder''s fault.

 

[Yellow Rider 0]

[quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"]

So never mind the shortage of players of this stature, the prevalent transfer market conditions or the countless other reasons, it has to be either the board or Roeder''s fault.

 

[/quote]

Good point - symptomatic of today''s politically correct, liberal society I''m afraid. If anything is perceived as ''going wrong'' or ''a problem'' it MUST be someone elses fault.

My daughters school friend took delivery of a young dog a few months back. Next day they left it alone in the house for about 5 hours whilst the mother went to work and the girl went to school. The dog had chewed some carpet and knawed at some furniture and paintwork. The dog was taken back to the origonal owner. The mother complained and took the owner to the small claims court! True story.     

[Hog 0]

No, there are players out there, Rasiak who we should have gone for, Bishop who seems a popular choice. The blame must lay with the Board, they have failed to provide the money that was needed to rebuild the squad. What we needed and what has actually been spent is in no way indicative of a club planning for a promotion push. Our actual spending is probably less then some ambitious Div 1 sides, and I fear that this is exactly where we are heading. I am sure Roeder has wanted the players, Ameobi, Rasiak etc but has nothing to work with, can only hope that Doncaster is able to negotiate with delayed payments and selll on clauses.  Same old story I''m afraid!

[AP16 0]

The board. Roeder has no doubt outlined targets that we need in order to move forward as a team. The other signings he''s made all seem to be useful to the side in one way or another, and the majority have looked better than what we already had.

 

For once the board needs to show a bit of ambition and chuck an extra 500k-1m on top of what''s already in the pot to sign a target man. Frustratingly.....we all know this wont happen.

[TheCardinal 0]

[quote user="Salahuddin"]No, there are players out there, Rasiak who we should have gone for, Bishop who seems a popular choice. The blame must lay with the Board, they have failed to provide the money that was needed to rebuild the squad. What we needed and what has actually been spent is in no way indicative of a club planning for a promotion push. Our actual spending is probably less then some ambitious Div 1 sides, and I fear that this is exactly where we are heading. I am sure Roeder has wanted the players, Ameobi, Rasiak etc but has nothing to work with, can only hope that Doncaster is able to negotiate with delayed payments and selll on clauses.  Same old story I''m afraid![/quote]

Abosolute BS, I''m afraid.

"There are players out there" - are there? You''ve named three. Rasiak - high wages, poor goalscoring record and been to a number of clubs over the past few seasons. Bishop. League two striker - no experience of any higher level. Ameobi - a bit of a crock and too expensive.

Name me experienced, reliable, goal scoring target men that are realistic signings for a side on a budget.

Put simply, I can think of one; Steffen Iversen. He''s experienced, scores goals and is effective in the air and on the ground. And that''s about it.

We don''t want to run out and buy any old so and so; put simply doing that will lead us no where. This is an important decision. And I for one would rather the right man is found than any man.

Unfortunately, it seems most people disagree. 

[Crafty Canary 547]

There are only two reasons why we may not have a trget man by the closure of the window:

1. Roeder has failed to identify one or more realistic potential targets

2. The board, for whatever reason, is unable to negotiate a deal.

Now even the most anti-Roeder supporter must accept that 1) is not the reason as he has publicly declared he''s after one of two possible targets and given the budget he''s had to work with it is unlikely he''s be after players he knows th club cannot afford.. So the reason has to be 2). What we don''t know is the reason. It might be lack of ambition to find the necessary funding or it might not. Whatever the reason should the season end badly (and I''m still confident it won''t) then it will be the board that have to carry the can unless they can give a plausible explanation to the contrary.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"]

[quote user="Salahuddin"]No, there are players out there, Rasiak who we should have gone for, Bishop who seems a popular choice. The blame must lay with the Board, they have failed to provide the money that was needed to rebuild the squad. What we needed and what has actually been spent is in no way indicative of a club planning for a promotion push. Our actual spending is probably less then some ambitious Div 1 sides, and I fear that this is exactly where we are heading. I am sure Roeder has wanted the players, Ameobi, Rasiak etc but has nothing to work with, can only hope that Doncaster is able to negotiate with delayed payments and selll on clauses.  Same old story I''m afraid![/quote]

Abosolute BS, I''m afraid.

"There are players out there" - are there? You''ve named three. Rasiak - high wages, poor goalscoring record and been to a number of clubs over the past few seasons. Bishop. League two striker - no experience of any higher level. Ameobi - a bit of a crock and too expensive.

Name me experienced, reliable, goal scoring target men that are realistic signings for a side on a budget.

 

[/quote]

Steve Howard... NEXT!

jas :)

[Puzzy magnet 0]

I''m sorry, but if the board or manager is not accountable on this issue, what the hell are they accountable on?

I guess it will all be fine, Delia knows best etc...

[TheCardinal 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"]

[quote user="Salahuddin"]No, there are players out there, Rasiak who we should have gone for, Bishop who seems a popular choice. The blame must lay with the Board, they have failed to provide the money that was needed to rebuild the squad. What we needed and what has actually been spent is in no way indicative of a club planning for a promotion push. Our actual spending is probably less then some ambitious Div 1 sides, and I fear that this is exactly where we are heading. I am sure Roeder has wanted the players, Ameobi, Rasiak etc but has nothing to work with, can only hope that Doncaster is able to negotiate with delayed payments and selll on clauses.  Same old story I''m afraid![/quote]

Abosolute BS, I''m afraid.

"There are players out there" - are there? You''ve named three. Rasiak - high wages, poor goalscoring record and been to a number of clubs over the past few seasons. Bishop. League two striker - no experience of any higher level. Ameobi - a bit of a crock and too expensive.

Name me experienced, reliable, goal scoring target men that are realistic signings for a side on a budget.

 

[/quote]

Steve Howard... NEXT!

jas :)

[/quote]

Steve Howard is too expensive.

NEXT 

[They need to EARN the right to play us 0]

I wouldn''t blame either of them, in fact I''d be pleased that we hadn''t spunked money away on useless wankers like Thorne and Strihavka.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 417]

If we don''t sign one I may fall of this fence. Make no mistake it will be down to lack of money and nothing else.[:(]

However there is still a glimmer of hope until midnight Monday.

[kevin brighton 0]

This post is now typical of this site, gone is the meaningful debate, gone are the considered views, gone are the supporters that support the club, the team and each other through thick and thin lets slate the board, blame the manager and slag off just about every aspect of the club.

Like many other clubs and managers we are constrained by ready cash and the willingness of clubs to sell as well as the will of agents and players.

So grow and stop blaming anyone, we are not a wealthy club just like many others and we do not have any divine right to anything. Give Roeder a chance and see what happens.  

  

[AP16 0]

Unlike many, I do still have faith in our board but it is hanging by a very, very thin thread. Failure to provide the money for a target man, and let''s face it, it can''t be more than 1m-1.5m that Roedent needs will just replicate the lack of ambition that the board has consistently shown over the last 10 years and more.

 

My advice to the board would be to back Roeder with the bucks unless you want it to get hostile and nasty for you.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="kevin brighton"]

This post is now typical of this site, gone is the meaningful debate, gone are the considered views, gone are the supporters that support the club, the team and each other through thick and thin lets slate the board, blame the manager and slag off just about every aspect of the club.

Like many other clubs and managers we are constrained by ready cash and the willingness of clubs to sell as well as the will of agents and players.

So grow and stop blaming anyone, we are not a wealthy club just like many others and we do not have any divine right to anything. Give Roeder a chance and see what happens.  

  

[/quote]

This topic is all about a fan/fans speaking about how the feel, good, bad or indifferent.  In life you get lots of different views, some you may agree with, some you won''t.  That''s life isn''t it?  Message boards are simply a place to express your thoughts and feelings, if you don''t enjoy it why bother coming on here at all?

Meaningful debate can be had and does happen on here, seems like you have chosen the wrong threads to read.

Gone are the supporters that support the club?  Hmmmmm 20,000 season tickets sold tells me that the fans have once again, and maybe blindly and loyally backed the club.  We ALL support the team and manager, but that doesn''t mean any of them should be free from critisism from people who pay damn good money to support the team.  When we neared relegation last season the fans were still there at CR each week to cheer on the lads, that is why we are ''''The Best'''' fans. 

Yes we all sometimes moan and groan, but hey after watching the drivel we have had to put up with the past few seasons can you honestly blame some for feeling that way?

Die hard supporters will always be there, good, bad or indifferent, it''s the casual supporters that will slowly drift away.  Because we support the team and the colours doesn''t mean we have to support the board, and if you cannot understand that then IMHO that''s your problem to understand and not mine to explain.

We would be a lot less wealthy if fans stayed away in droves, and we went back to the 10,000 fans a match like not too many years ago.  Without the support of the fans you say don''t support the club there would be no NCFC of that I have no doubt.

 

[Binky 0]

[quote user="Hoolahoop"]

 Failure to provide the money for a target man, and let''s face it, it can''t be more than 1m-1.5m that Roedent needs will just replicate the lack of ambition that the board has consistently shown over the last 10 years and more.

[/quote]

But it''s not just the transfer fee - the wages can amount to as much if a 3 year contract is demanded - though a proven prolific scorer will cost up front as well.

Not convinced we can''t find someone from a lower division and I think scoring or finishing ability needs to be at least matched with the ability to win, hold and lay the ball off. For example, Colchester''s big striker Clive Platt seems to do little else but stand up big whereas his team mate Scott Vernon (and ex Blackpool) looks to be a hard working, ball winning and holding "striker" - though his scoring record is okay rather than impressive. I''m sure we could afford him on loan...

[Taxing 0]

[quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"]

[quote user="Salahuddin"]No, there are players out there, Rasiak who we should have gone for, Bishop who seems a popular choice. The blame must lay with the Board, they have failed to provide the money that was needed to rebuild the squad. What we needed and what has actually been spent is in no way indicative of a club planning for a promotion push. Our actual spending is probably less then some ambitious Div 1 sides, and I fear that this is exactly where we are heading. I am sure Roeder has wanted the players, Ameobi, Rasiak etc but has nothing to work with, can only hope that Doncaster is able to negotiate with delayed payments and selll on clauses.  Same old story I''m afraid![/quote]

Abosolute BS, I''m afraid.

"There are players out there" - are there? You''ve named three. Rasiak - high wages, poor goalscoring record and been to a number of clubs over the past few seasons. Bishop. League two striker - no experience of any higher level. Ameobi - a bit of a crock and too expensive.

Name me experienced, reliable, goal scoring target men that are realistic signings for a side on a budget.

 

[/quote]

Steve Howard... NEXT!

jas :)

[/quote]

Steve Howard is too expensive.

NEXT 

[/quote]

Out of curiosity, why do you say that Howard is too expensive ? Is there an official valuation ?

If the Board does regard  Howard as too expensive then IMO the Board is to blame because surely the valuation can''t be that high. If we cannot afford a player like Howard then our finances must be really dire. And if our finances are rally dire that must be the fault of the Board. The Club is asset rich, it has long term debt and no substantial short term debt, enjoyed £14M worth of parachute payments, sold Ashton for £3M plus profit and bought and sold Earnshaw for £3M, benefits from 23K plus crowds for every home game..............

Of course, managers come to Norwich knowing already that they will have little money to spend. The problem with that is that, by consequence, they also know that the Board will have limited expectations of success. If success is achieved then the Board can pat the manager on the back. If only mid-table mediocrity is the outcome then the Board congratulates itself on preserving the status quo and stability AND the Manager knows that his job and personal financial security are secure. Only if relegation becomes a real threat is the manager''s job threatened. In other words, IMO what exists at Norwich is a self-serving, incestuous culture where the needs and wishes of the fans very much at the bottom of the list

[kdncfc 0]

[quote user="Binky"][quote user="Hoolahoop"]

 Failure to provide the money for a target man, and let''s face it, it can''t be more than 1m-1.5m that Roedent needs will just replicate the lack of ambition that the board has consistently shown over the last 10 years and more.

[/quote]

But it''s not just the transfer fee - the wages can amount to as much if a 3 year contract is demanded - though a proven prolific scorer will cost up front as well.

Not convinced we can''t find someone from a lower division and I think scoring or finishing ability needs to be at least matched with the ability to win, hold and lay the ball off. For example, Colchester''s big striker Clive Platt seems to do little else but stand up big whereas his team mate Scott Vernon (and ex Blackpool) looks to be a hard working, ball winning and holding "striker" - though his scoring record is okay rather than impressive. I''m sure we could afford him on loan...

[/quote]

The wages do not have to be paid up front, they are paid over term of the contract and should be more than covered by the money we have saved from on the wages of Dublin, Huckerby and all the others that have been offloaded.

[Barclay_Boy 0]

[quote user="Salahuddin"]No, there are players out there, Rasiak who we should have gone for, Bishop who seems a popular choice. The blame must lay with the Board, they have failed to provide the money that was needed to rebuild the squad. What we needed and what has actually been spent is in no way indicative of a club planning for a promotion push. Our actual spending is probably less then some ambitious Div 1 sides, and I fear that this is exactly where we are heading. I am sure Roeder has wanted the players, Ameobi, Rasiak etc but has nothing to work with, can only hope that Doncaster is able to negotiate with delayed payments and selll on clauses.  Same old story I''m afraid![/quote]

spot on mate, for me it''s a no brainer, cannot blame Roeder, if he had the money he would have got us one or two target men by now. Think he has done brilliantly with the amount that he has had to work with, but unfortunately most of the type of player that we are looking for cost money.

[Puzzy magnet 0]

Nail on head. A decent target man costs money, and that''s the problem.

[Barclay_Boy 0]

[quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"]

[quote user="Salahuddin"]No, there are players out there, Rasiak who we should have gone for, Bishop who seems a popular choice. The blame must lay with the Board, they have failed to provide the money that was needed to rebuild the squad. What we needed and what has actually been spent is in no way indicative of a club planning for a promotion push. Our actual spending is probably less then some ambitious Div 1 sides, and I fear that this is exactly where we are heading. I am sure Roeder has wanted the players, Ameobi, Rasiak etc but has nothing to work with, can only hope that Doncaster is able to negotiate with delayed payments and selll on clauses.  Same old story I''m afraid![/quote]

Abosolute BS, I''m afraid.

"There are players out there" - are there? You''ve named three. Rasiak - high wages, poor goalscoring record and been to a number of clubs over the past few seasons. Bishop. League two striker - no experience of any higher level. Ameobi - a bit of a crock and too expensive.

Name me experienced, reliable, goal scoring target men that are realistic signings for a side on a budget.

 

[/quote]

Steve Howard... NEXT!

jas :)

[/quote]

Steve Howard is too expensive.

NEXT 

[/quote]

maybe you''re with the wrong club? perhaps you should be supporting a non league club? try someowhere like Wroxham or Derham Town.

[AndyJR 0]

There''s always the chance we have someone lined up and are just playing

the waiting game until the end of the transfer window, e.g Norwich say

this is what we''re offering, club says we want more (knowing full well

the player wants to move and is hence not someone they want at the club

anymore), 30th of August comes, club concludes Norwich won''t offer more

money and hence the deal is done at the original price.  You never

know, many a deal will have happened that way I would hazard a guess.

[Taxing 0]

[quote user="AndyJR"]There''s always the chance we have someone lined up and are just playing the waiting game until the end of the transfer window, e.g Norwich say this is what we''re offering, club says we want more (knowing full well the player wants to move and is hence not someone they want at the club anymore), 30th of August comes, club concludes Norwich won''t offer more money and hence the deal is done at the original price.  You never know, many a deal will have happened that way I would hazard a guess.[/quote]

 

I think this must be right. Given Roeder''s recent utterances on the subject, I simply cannot believe that he would wish to run until January without securing a target man before the window closes and it''s very much the style of the current Board to try and be cunning negotiators even though more often and not they end up being too clever for the club''s good. So, yes, I expect to see a signing announced on or by Monday.

[alex_ncfc 686]

[quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"]

[quote user="Salahuddin"]No, there are players out there, Rasiak who we should have gone for, Bishop who seems a popular choice. The blame must lay with the Board, they have failed to provide the money that was needed to rebuild the squad. What we needed and what has actually been spent is in no way indicative of a club planning for a promotion push. Our actual spending is probably less then some ambitious Div 1 sides, and I fear that this is exactly where we are heading. I am sure Roeder has wanted the players, Ameobi, Rasiak etc but has nothing to work with, can only hope that Doncaster is able to negotiate with delayed payments and selll on clauses.  Same old story I''m afraid![/quote]

Abosolute BS, I''m afraid.

"There are players out there" - are there? You''ve named three. Rasiak - high wages, poor goalscoring record and been to a number of clubs over the past few seasons. Bishop. League two striker - no experience of any higher level. Ameobi - a bit of a crock and too expensive.

Name me experienced, reliable, goal scoring target men that are realistic signings for a side on a budget.

 

[/quote]

Steve Howard... NEXT!

jas :)

[/quote]

Steve Howard is too expensive.

NEXT 

[/quote]

Talk about contradictory.

"Steve Howard is too expensive" - doesn''t this go back to the original point? Why is he too expensive, do you think? Maybe, it''s because it''s the boards fault for pissing our funds up the wall?

[Robert N. LiM 6,282]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"][quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"]

So never mind the shortage of players of this stature, the prevalent transfer market conditions or the countless other reasons, it has to be either the board or Roeder''s fault.

 

[/quote]

Good point - symptomatic of today''s politically correct, liberal society I''m afraid. If anything is perceived as ''going wrong'' or ''a problem'' it MUST be someone elses fault.

My daughters school friend took delivery of a young dog a few months back. Next day they left it alone in the house for about 5 hours whilst the mother went to work and the girl went to school. The dog had chewed some carpet and knawed at some furniture and paintwork. The dog was taken back to the origonal owner. The mother complained and took the owner to the small claims court! True story.     

[/quote]What? Was www.dailymail.co.uk down for site maintenance today? Any views on asylum seekers you want to shoehorn into today''s debate? Should we sign that guy from Watford?

[Mello Yello 2,572]

[quote user="Lord Snooty"][quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"]

[quote user="Salahuddin"]No, there are players out there, Rasiak who we should have gone for, Bishop who seems a popular choice. The blame must lay with the Board, they have failed to provide the money that was needed to rebuild the squad. What we needed and what has actually been spent is in no way indicative of a club planning for a promotion push. Our actual spending is probably less then some ambitious Div 1 sides, and I fear that this is exactly where we are heading. I am sure Roeder has wanted the players, Ameobi, Rasiak etc but has nothing to work with, can only hope that Doncaster is able to negotiate with delayed payments and selll on clauses.  Same old story I''m afraid![/quote]

Abosolute BS, I''m afraid.

"There are players out there" - are there? You''ve named three. Rasiak - high wages, poor goalscoring record and been to a number of clubs over the past few seasons. Bishop. League two striker - no experience of any higher level. Ameobi - a bit of a crock and too expensive.

Name me experienced, reliable, goal scoring target men that are realistic signings for a side on a budget.

 

[/quote]

Steve Howard... NEXT!

jas :)

[/quote]

Steve Howard is too expensive.

NEXT 

[/quote]

Out of curiosity, why do you say that Howard is too expensive ? Is there an official valuation ?

If the Board does regard  Howard as too expensive then IMO the Board is to blame because surely the valuation can''t be that high. If we cannot afford a player like Howard then our finances must be really dire. And if our finances are rally dire that must be the fault of the Board. The Club is asset rich, it has long term debt and no substantial short term debt, enjoyed £14M worth of parachute payments, sold Ashton for £3M plus profit and bought and sold Earnshaw for £3M, benefits from 23K plus crowds for every home game..............

Of course, managers come to Norwich knowing already that they will have little money to spend. The problem with that is that, by consequence, they also know that the Board will have limited expectations of success. If success is achieved then the Board can pat the manager on the back. If only mid-table mediocrity is the outcome then the Board congratulates itself on preserving the status quo and stability AND the Manager knows that his job and personal financial security are secure. Only if relegation becomes a real threat is the manager''s job threatened. In other words, IMO what exists at Norwich is a self-serving, incestuous culture where the needs and wishes of the fans very much at the bottom of the list

[/quote]

Enjoyed that......Thanks.[Y][:D]

[Mello Yello 2,572]

[quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"]

So never mind the shortage of players of this stature, the prevalent transfer market conditions or the countless other reasons, it has to be either the board or Roeder''s fault.

[/quote]

Doncaster, NCFC Board and some of it on Roeder........and board sympathising folk, like yourself. 

[Syteanric 1]

Marshmallow man.. how much would you value Howard at?  bear in mind we spent a fair bit for David Bell who is younger with far more potential?

you have hugely contradicted yourself

jas :)

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Robert N. LiM"][quote user="Yellow Rider"][quote user="TheMarshmallowMonkey"]

So never mind the shortage of players of this stature, the prevalent transfer market conditions or the countless other reasons, it has to be either the board or Roeder''s fault.

 

[/quote]

Good point - symptomatic of today''s politically correct, liberal society I''m afraid. If anything is perceived as ''going wrong'' or ''a problem'' it MUST be someone elses fault.

My daughters school friend took delivery of a young dog a few months back. Next day they left it alone in the house for about 5 hours whilst the mother went to work and the girl went to school. The dog had chewed some carpet and knawed at some furniture and paintwork. The dog was taken back to the origonal owner. The mother complained and took the owner to the small claims court! True story.     

[/quote]What? Was www.dailymail.co.uk down for site maintenance today? Any views on asylum seekers you want to shoehorn into today''s debate? Should we sign that guy from Watford?[/quote]So the answer to the OP is neither. The failure to secure the services of a decent ''big man'' is actually down to those pesky politically correct liberals. I should have known really [:|]