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TheCardinal

A few thoughts, if I may...

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Time to panic? Hardly.

We''ve started seasons off in just as poor a fashion and gone on to be quite successful. Equally, there are examples of going on to do very, very poorly as well. We still don''t know where we''re going.

What I am worried about is three fold:

1) Roeder''s continued use of 4-3-1-2 formation. Used by top quality players, this formation works fabulously. In a lower division, it meets with unmitigated failure. Why? Simply because players in this division aren''t so multi-talented to make this formation work. You need players who are strong, hard working and talented. Usually, players in this division are only two of the three.

2) We need to find an effective system, and work it. Last season we had that with the one winger system. I''m not advocating a return to that system but rather sticking with the one system and work with it. Against Coventry, we seemed to have a decent system in the offering. We''ve changed that and looked poorer for it. I appreciate this system is lacking a fundamental aspect - the solid, target man - and the sooner this man is added the better. Even so, let''s run with the 4-4-2 - if all that is wrong is the finishing, let''s keep it up and at least keep doing what we''re doing right.

3) Our strike force. Obviously, again, not finished. But even so, we do seem to have two shot-shy strikers. We must learn to stop taking one, two, three touches too many, as has been a fatal flaw in both defeats so far. Obviously, though, this is well covered and needs not be discussed further.

But anyway, we''ll wait and see what happens. I''m sure many will jump to unrealistic, gloomy conclusions with no real justifications - but I think we shouldn''t read too much into things.

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Well this is probably the most logical and sensible thread so I''ll post in here! (some of this is copied from the match thread)The reality is, is that this was on the cards. This is no different to

a pre-season game except that the other team are really fired up to

win. It''s difficult to win against teams that consider this match to be their final. And their next game will be their final too. Tonight was a chance to see how some other players are getting on and to try different things, in that respect I''m a bit annoyed we didn''t change our system but the problems are there to see. I''m disappointed we lost, but in reality it''s not the end of the

world and it confirms my doubts in some aspects of our squad at the

moment.Anyway. In reality with two small strikers and a team that likes to

pass rather than shoot, you will need to play a different style of

football than that played tonight. Two defensive central midfielders

will not work. As much as people want to blame the lack of a goalscorer

or a big guy up front, if we changed our attacking style we would be

more successful. We can chop and change our strikers we have at the club as much as we want but the problem is, is that they don''t get enough chances. Now there''s two ways of fixing that. Either you create more chances, or you sign strikers who can score goals from fewer chances, but why not try both? That said, I support the signing of a big guy and a

goalscorer because to be quite frank, we need one.Even with the

new striker we will need to see if this cligan/fozzy partnership will

work. I didn''t go to game tonight, or against Coventry but from what

I''ve seen (spurs game) and what I''ve heard, they are far to defensive

and hinder the team when moving forward. We''ll see but I wouldn''t be

surprised if roeder rethinks his attacking options next game.Finally,

we really need to bring in another striker as soon as. The fact is if

we can''t rely on other teams then we have to rely on ourselves to make

our offers extra special. Because to be quite frank we can''t let other

teams jeopardise our season because we can''t agree a price. In hindsight

the rubbish about the investment rumours bumping up the price were just

that rubbish. The fact is, goalscorers and good target men are hard to

come by and they come at premium, a premium we have to pay.Now of course people are going to be disappointed. Some perennial complainers will point straight to Delia and blame her, some will blame roeder, some will blame the players. In reality the blame can be spread onto anybody, and it''s a typical british attitude to blame somebody for our short comings. The team needs time to gel, we haven''t quite got our tactics right, we haven''t built a complete team ready to take the league on, we don''t have the confidence rolling through the side and we don''t have that winners desperation yet. I don''t think any one party is to blame but questions do need to be asked as always but the last thing we need is negativity rolling through the stands again. That is not the stance of a fence-sitter it''s the stand of somebody using logic and reason in a time where it seems chaos prevades.

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If your logic dicatates that nobody is to blame for defeats, then I dont think we need any more of your logic.  [quote user="Fellas"]Well this is probably the most logical and sensible thread so I''ll post in here! (some of this is copied from the match thread)The reality is, is that this was on the cards. This is no different to

a pre-season game except that the other team are really fired up to

win. It''s difficult to win against teams that consider this match to be their final. And their next game will be their final too. Tonight was a chance to see how some other players are getting on and to try different things, in that respect I''m a bit annoyed we didn''t change our system but the problems are there to see. I''m disappointed we lost, but in reality it''s not the end of the

world and it confirms my doubts in some aspects of our squad at the

moment.Anyway. In reality with two small strikers and a team that likes to

pass rather than shoot, you will need to play a different style of

football than that played tonight. Two defensive central midfielders

will not work. As much as people want to blame the lack of a goalscorer

or a big guy up front, if we changed our attacking style we would be

more successful. We can chop and change our strikers we have at the club as much as we want but the problem is, is that they don''t get enough chances. Now there''s two ways of fixing that. Either you create more chances, or you sign strikers who can score goals from fewer chances, but why not try both? That said, I support the signing of a big guy and a

goalscorer because to be quite frank, we need one.Even with the

new striker we will need to see if this cligan/fozzy partnership will

work. I didn''t go to game tonight, or against Coventry but from what

I''ve seen (spurs game) and what I''ve heard, they are far to defensive

and hinder the team when moving forward. We''ll see but I wouldn''t be

surprised if roeder rethinks his attacking options next game.Finally,

we really need to bring in another striker as soon as. The fact is if

we can''t rely on other teams then we have to rely on ourselves to make

our offers extra special. Because to be quite frank we can''t let other

teams jeopardise our season because we can''t agree a price. In hindsight

the rubbish about the investment rumours bumping up the price were just

that rubbish. The fact is, goalscorers and good target men are hard to

come by and they come at premium, a premium we have to pay.Now of course people are going to be disappointed. Some perennial complainers will point straight to Delia and blame her, some will blame roeder, some will blame the players. In reality the blame can be spread onto anybody, and it''s a typical british attitude to blame somebody for our short comings. The team needs time to gel, we haven''t quite got our tactics right, we haven''t built a complete team ready to take the league on, we don''t have the confidence rolling through the side and we don''t have that winners desperation yet. I don''t think any one party is to blame but questions do need to be asked as always but the last thing we need is negativity rolling through the stands again. That is not the stance of a fence-sitter it''s the stand of somebody using logic and reason in a time where it seems chaos prevades.

[/quote]

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I agree completely with both posts, and there is not much I can add at all. Obviously this is the start of the season, and we should not be too overly concerned...yet. I have faith in Roeder that he will definitely try his best with what he has got, and that is all we can ask at the moment, he clearly has not had much money to spend which is a concern when we know that the team needed a massive overhaul from last season.

Clearly 4 of the first teamers were missing tonight, and 5 if you include Bertrand, therefore I do expect better things at the weekend. I am not going to bash the team at all yet, because they deserve a chance to prove themselves to us.

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[quote user="JC"]If your logic dicatates that nobody is to blame for defeats, then I dont think we need any more of your logic.  [/quote]Here we go. I knew somebody would bite. Why should we should we blame any one party for the defeat tonight. The reality (no matter how much you may hate it and want the sole factor to be Delia''s short-comings) is that the were many factors and reasons that we lost tonight. To pull one out and say that is the sole/main reason we lost is simply illogical. That said I welcome a counter-retorts but if this is going to be the standard of reply then I think I might call it an early night tonight.

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I pretty much agree, Marshmallow.

We do indeed need to find a decent system which fits the players we have - but hopefully with a more potent strike force.  It might be (and I hope it is) that we employ a more attacking formation at home than we do away, I guess we will see that on Saturday.  IMO there is nothing wrong in playing different systems, as long as the players are capable/comfortable doing so. 

At the end of the day, we have only played 2 games out of what will be a c50 match season, so things are far from decided but GR does need to get things sorted as soon as possible.

For me, in the same way that we shouldn''t have got carried away had we won both games, nor should we get carried away at losing them.  Suggesting all is doom and gloom after just two games is as daft as it would be to predict promotion.

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i agree with you, but then at the same time, the season has started now and if we start sluggish we will most probably carry on in such a fashion, and if you want to create competition for places then tonight was a perfect chance for the outsiders to get in, but they didnt take it. im not going to lose my roots in reality but at the same time i do have my standards as to what i expect my team to play in regards of a performance, and that wasnt it.

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Are you for real?

"Why should we should we blame any one party for the defeat tonight"

I will give you 20 million reasons why we should blame someone

Lets be clear the the board had a choice....

Take a £20 million investment or spin the wheel and hope our numbers come up

Do you real think if GR had a decent budget he would not have signed players capable of beating MK Dons?

I think we will be alright and finish mid table I actually rate the team he has put together however it just makes me think how good we could be with the right backing

If we get relegated would you still not blame anyone?  Let me be clear I love the club, rate GR highly.  I feel sorry for Delia in terms of the fact she cannot let go of something she wants but surely tonight must be a wake up call for all of us.......

 

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[quote user="milan marcus"]

Are you for real?

"Why should we should we blame any one party for the defeat tonight"

I will give you 20 million reasons why we should blame someone

Lets be clear the the board had a choice....

Take a £20 million investment or spin the wheel and hope our numbers come up

[/quote]Do you know the exact moves and shakes of the "investment"? I sure as hell don''t, and if you do I''d be all ears. We don''t know what happened in those talks. All we know is that both parties walked away dusting their hands, to blame Delia for the investment not going through would mean you''d have to blame Cullum too (seeing as they released a joint statement about the failings of the talks).That said some big teams also stood on some banana skins tonight and the almost famous QPR bundled their way (just) past Swindon, so maybe £10billion isn''t all it''s cracked up to be?

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As ever with Norwich it''s the manner of defeat that bothers me, how many more times are we going to fail to turn up for games like this. I can accept defeat but tonight was another performance bordering on the unacceptable, something Roeder has promised to eradicate. If anyone is to blame it''s the board, we sign a young raw striker on loan from  pompey who hasn''t scored in 2 games while Burnley spend close on a million pound for Patteson who scores 3 goals in 2 games putting them into the next round of the cup in the process.  

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I don''t know so much if I''d trust Roeder with 20 million quid - he had a fair bit of money to play with both at Newcastle & West Ham after all.

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Fella,

Fair post I understand your point about we don''t know the in''s and outs of the deal however and it is a massive however....

I simply think Delia wants control of the club at any cost due her love of the power of being an owner of a football club.  My point is that when PC came along I think all of us feel the board were not overtly welcoming in their approach to PC and never really gave him a chance to crack a deal. 

As with your issues with would we be any better with £20 million spent on our team I think the vital factor is YES over the course of the season we would and that is what is the difference in getting promoted or staying in mid table.

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Charlton lost AT HOME to Yeovil, Wolves needed extra time at home to beat accrington Stanley. Sheff wed went out to rotherham. Doncaster lost to notts county, blackpool beaten by macclesfield, plymouth lost to luton and let rossi jarvis score! barnsley dumped out 2-0 by crewe.Now this either says all these teams need to be really worried too. Or it its an indication of how poor our league is.Either way it means our result tonight does not mean a great deal in how we will finish come May.

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