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Jim Smith

Roeder - "I have another striker coming in"

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Personally I would put Beckford in the headless chicken camp,who I think  is  a selfish player who has a hell of alot to learn about team play.Iversen may not be the whole answer but I would be much happier with him than say Howard,Beckford and Ameobi.

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[quote user="whoareyou"] I reckon the last outfield player to score with his head other than Dion could well have been Hucks! [:O][/quote]

Actually, I''ve just remembered that it must have been Big Dave ... wasn''t it?

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[quote user="Giovani Dos Santos"]

Im not a statistician but simply pointing out what we need.. And thats someone who is going to score 20 + goals a season

What is the point in bringing in someone with their sole purpose to set up chances for Cureton etc. and who is only going to end up with around 10 goals themselves. Cureton and Iversen together would bring around 25 goals between them, where as we could get a proper goal scorer who would get those 25 goals himself as well as having Cureton or Lupoli who would get around 15 themself..

Stop being so narrow minded

Please tell me what is so good about Iversen? And have you actually ever seen him play? Or are you going on reputations?

Oh and what happens in a year or two when his legs go because he will be around 34/35 because trust me not all players can carry on like Dion

[/quote]

Sorry but you are also being narrow minded by not acepting that Iversen could come good. The championship is a lower level of football than Iversen has played before. He has averaged 1 in 3 playing in the top divisions throughout his career and last season was better than 1 in 2 in the top norweigan league which is probably similar in quality to the championship. He is known to be a good all round striker which in my view is what we need as opposed to a big lump like Howard.

I accept that Beckford COULD come good but from what i have seen of him his all round game is not up to the standard we need and the fact is he would cost about £2 million and at that price is a major risk. We are not ina  position where we can afford to take risks and for me therefore Iversen is a much better bet.

 

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[quote user="bloodwagon"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="macdougalls perm"]

I believe what he meant to say, YY, is ''sorry but I didn''t go the away fixture on Saturday, so feel unqualified to offer a valid opinion on the performances of any of our players during said match''.

[/quote]

And you tried to use the very same arguement, and failed! during theWorthy Out days MP.

I always know I''m hitting the truth when posters like you resort to this tactic................whats going to be your excuse on Saturday then?.

Too cloudy?

[/quote]

excuse? so you think we''ll lose Wiz?
[/quote]

Course he does, like he says we are going to lose Every game!!! and go down (every year)

[/quote]

..and were broke and I''m going to change my name and I''m not going to post on here anymore and...

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I am not stating that Beckford is the answer, he in fact could be a total flop too

But what im trying to say is that i dont think Iversen is the answer to our problems, he sounds like a second support type of striker who creates chances for the main striker. In my eyes that is not what we need, we need an out and out goal scorer who also has the height to put away crosses. Someone like Dean Ashton is the sort of player im alluding to. A guy who could head a ball, hold it up as well as scoring 20+ goals in this league. Yes Iversen fits the first criteria, but he certainly doesnt fit the goal scoring part and so I believe he isnt the rigt option

As for Macdougalls Perm, your comment makes you sound ever so slightly childish and immature yourself. I am 17 if you really need to know, not that it should matter to post on here

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[quote user="Giovani Dos Santos"]I am 17 if you really need to know, not that it should matter to post on here[/quote]

No it doesn''t matter, but being mature enough to have a debate without

resorting to petty name-calling does... don''t worry, there''s plenty of

"grown-ups" on here who do the same thing so you''re not alone, but I

think you''ll find that if you learn to listen to other people''s points

and debate sensibly you''ll have far less coming back at you... just a

tip, do with it as you please...

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[quote user="Giovani Dos Santos"]

I am not stating that Beckford is the answer, he in fact could be a total flop too

But what im trying to say is that i dont think Iversen is the answer to our problems, he sounds like a second support type of striker who creates chances for the main striker. In my eyes that is not what we need, we need an out and out goal scorer who also has the height to put away crosses. Someone like Dean Ashton is the sort of player im alluding to. A guy who could head a ball, hold it up as well as scoring 20+ goals in this league. Yes Iversen fits the first criteria, but he certainly doesnt fit the goal scoring part and so I believe he isnt the rigt option

As for Macdougalls Perm, your comment makes you sound ever so slightly childish and immature yourself. I am 17 if you really need to know, not that it should matter to post on here

[/quote]How much are West Ham trying to flog him for?Thanks for the age info. I''m 58, allegedly.

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[quote user="Giovani Dos Santos"]

Oh and then look at this for Beckford

YearsClubApp (Gls)*
2001–20062003–20042006–20062007WealdstoneUxbridge (loan)Leeds UnitedCarlisle United (loan)→ Scunthorpe United (loan)

98 (51)7 (2)51 (22)4 (1)18 (8)   

Vastly more impressive as well as being a lot younger and also quicker...

I dont think we necessarily need a battering ram, how we played at coventry just suggests we need a finisher who also has a bit of height for corsses coming into the box. We arnt looking at play route 1 football so his lack of strength isnt a problem. He is also quick and will get in behind defenders from the numerous through balls etc. from Hoolahan and Lupoli

[/quote]I''m sorry but you sir are a first class idiot. I''ll put it this way.Iversen is a good player. He''s probably the best player of his type that we could aim to buy. He has impressed at every level, including international. He would also be the first decent header er of the ball that we have had at the club since Dean Ashton departed. I''ve seen him play more often than Beckford and not only will I say he is vastly better but he will be much cheaper and has much more experience, something I think we could do with in the team at the moment. Iversen is by no means the answer to all our problems but he will solve many of them. His goal-scoring record in the premiership puts him on a similar ratio to players of the class of Zola  (as somebody pointed out earlier). Not bad eh? He has proven over many seasons and games that he scores goals and can play to a top ability. Something we have yet to see from Ameobi (definitely), Beckford (who''s never played at this level) and Rasiak who has only produced 2 fruitful seasons in front of goal (even though I do think he would be a good signing also).His style of play will be something we really have missed for a long time, and I would welcome his signing with open arms.

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[quote user="Giovani Dos Santos"]

Ok so lets have it then

Your preference of strikers from the people we have been linked with

[/quote]

Iversen

Rasiak

Ameobi

Don''t really wany any of the others.

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I think you have misunderstood me...

I am not saying Iversen is not a good player.. I have no doubt he has quality but I do not believe he is what we need.

I used Beckford as an example of what I believe we need. Im not saying he is the only answer. I believe we need a tall striker who can also put the ball in the net 20+ times a season, eg Beckford OR Ameobi OR Rasiak

I do not believe Iversen would get that many goals for us and that is what we are missing.

We dont need someone to come in and create chances, like he does, as we are creating enough as it is. We just cant score them.

And yes we need someone who can score headers, that is why im saying a TALL striker

They dont have to be a targetman who can win flick ons and hold up the ball to do that

I mean look how many Owen or Shearer have scored with their head and neither of them were out and out target men

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[quote user="Giovani Dos Santos"]

I think you have misunderstood me...

I am not saying Iversen is not a good player.. I have no doubt he has quality but I do not believe he is what we need.

I used Beckford as an example of what I believe we need. Im not saying he is the only answer. I believe we need a tall striker who can also put the ball in the net 20+ times a season, eg Beckford OR Ameobi OR Rasiak

I do not believe Iversen would get that many goals for us and that is what we are missing.

We dont need someone to come in and create chances, like he does, as we are creating enough as it is. We just cant score them.

And yes we need someone who can score headers, that is why im saying a TALL striker

They dont have to be a targetman who can win flick ons and hold up the ball to do that

I mean look how many Owen or Shearer have scored with their head and neither of them were out and out target men

[/quote]No I have not misunderstood you at all.Iversen is your best bet of getting 15+ goals in a league season. His average over his entire career (at level equal and greater than this level) is of a goal every 3 games, that would give him 15 goals a season. Rasiak has only twice scored more than 15 goals (and never 20) and those were by far his best seasons, not his average like that of iversen. Ameobi has no inkling that he will ever score 20 goals at this level. He has scored very little and didn''t score once for Stoke in his time last season. I do however think both of those would do a job in this league but not as good as Iversen could.Unfortunately by you next statements it shows how little you know about Iversen. Iversen is a typical Scandanavian centre forward. Big, very good in the air, but techinacally sound on the floor and has good distroubution. Think of him like Sheringham (as a british example, or even Ashton) but in Scandanavian terms he''s very like Carew, Allback (his most likeliness) and Larsson. Although he''s better in the air than all those players.I can tell you this now, Iversen is probably one of the best header-ers of the ball I''ve seen in the game at the moment. He IS FAR SUPERIOR to Ameobi and definitely Beckford who isn''t very good in the air at all. Rasiak is very capable in the air on the other hand, but Iversen is a lot better than he is still. It annoys me, because you have probably never seen him play and yet you think your statements qualify as fact. They don''t. I''ve only seen him play about 10 times (of course all on TV) but that''s more than what I''ve seen of say Beckford.I have to say, not only are you an Idiot but an annoying one at that. If you don''t know how a player plays, then don''t bulls*** and make it up. If you want somebody to score headers for you then look no further than Iversen.

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[quote user="Giovani Dos Santos"]

I think you have misunderstood me...

I am not saying Iversen is not a good player.. I have no doubt he has quality but I do not believe he is what we need.

I used Beckford as an example of what I believe we need. Im not saying he is the only answer. I believe we need a tall striker who can also put the ball in the net 20+ times a season, eg Beckford OR Ameobi OR Rasiak

I do not believe Iversen would get that many goals for us and that is what we are missing.

We dont need someone to come in and create chances, like he does, as we are creating enough as it is. We just cant score them.

And yes we need someone who can score headers, that is why im saying a TALL striker

They dont have to be a targetman who can win flick ons and hold up the ball to do that

I mean look how many Owen or Shearer have scored with their head and neither of them were out and out target men

[/quote]

 

Shearer''s not a target man??? give over!

 

Hes probably the best target man the Premiership as seen! You cant compare Shearer and Owen, their totally different players.

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[quote user="Giovani Dos Santos"]

I think you have misunderstood me...

I am not saying Iversen is not a good player.. I have no doubt he has quality but I do not believe he is what we need.

I used Beckford as an example of what I believe we need. Im not saying he is the only answer. I believe we need a tall striker who can also put the ball in the net 20+ times a season, eg Beckford OR Ameobi OR Rasiak

I do not believe Iversen would get that many goals for us and that is what we are missing.

We dont need someone to come in and create chances, like he does, as we are creating enough as it is. We just cant score them.

And yes we need someone who can score headers, that is why im saying a TALL striker

They dont have to be a targetman who can win flick ons and hold up the ball to do that

I mean look how many Owen or Shearer have scored with their head and neither of them were out and out target men

[/quote]I really don''t see why you think any of those players suggested are any more likely to score more goals than Iversen - at this level.Have you seen Iwan Roberts'' figures? His best in the league was 19 & for 4 of his 7 seasons he didn''t get into double figures, but he is, by general consent, one of the best strikers NCFC ever had.

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Fellas, I could have scored that header... So your point is?

And Iwan Roberts?! Why is he being brought into it? He was a good striker yes, but i still wouldnt want him now at this moment in time.. As he was not an out and out goalscorer and that is what I believe we need.

And anyway, all this stuff about Iversen is speculative links coming from Archant and this board. I have heard nothing from either our manager, the national press (who sometimes get stuff right) or even SSN or BBC Sport about the man

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Like everyone else, I''ve been giving this one a lot of thought and trying to work out who would be the best addition to the team.Since I can''t claim, unlike some of you, to have extensively watched (live or on TV) all the strikers who appear to be in the frame (probably Ameobi, Rasiak, Howard, Iverson are the front runners), I started to think about the attributes I would want to see for someone who is really going to complete the jigsaw. My thoughts (and I am sure many of you will disagree!!) about what I would like to see are as follows:1) Experience.I think we need someone who has quite a few seasons at Champ. or better level. I don''t think it''s a job for an untried or untested youngster.2) MaturityDifferent from experience (Gazza had lots of experience in the latter stages of his career but did he ever have maturity?) Needs to be someone who is comfortable leading the line and not going to disintegrate if he has a few barren weeks.3) Team EthicThe way we have started to play suggests that the team could be better than the quality of the individual players would suggest (rather like the last Championship winning team) and it''s therefore important that whoever comes into the mix doesn''t see themselves as a primadonna and cause bad feeling in the dressing room.4) Tall with good physique!Preferably at least 6''2" and strong enough to hold his own against big ugly defenders. Not just tall, though, ''cos the last thing I want is hoofball again...but nevertheless capable of getting on the end of crosses and free kicks and holding the ball up for the other forwards.5) Brave & robust!Not afraid to go in where it hurts...but not someone who has a record of spending large parts of the season on a treatment table.6) Motivated and prepared to stay with us for at least 2 seasons.No get out clauses, ''Norwich as a stepping stone'', ''last payday before retirement'' or ''last chance saloon'' characters please.7) Last but certainly not least:Minimum twenty goals a season and at least fifteen assists!!!!! (i.e.A proven goal scoring record at similar or better level).I suppose I should add ''affordable'' to that list but that goes without saying really.Feel free to add your own attributes and to judge the candidates against the list. For what it''s worth, applying the above criteria, my order of preference would be Iversen, Rasiak, Howard, Ameobi.Funny really because when his name first came up, I thought Shola would be fantastic but when you start to analyse their qualities there are others who I think would do a better job! The other thing is, what would I give for a 30year old Iwan Roberts?OTBC

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[quote user="Giovani Dos Santos"]

Fellas, I could have scored that header... So your point is?

[/quote]Well you wanted people who scored headers. There we go, he scores headers. That''s more than what you''ve shown for your beloved Beckford....

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[quote user="Fellas"]If you don''t believe me then look at this that somebody posted yesterday. His goal is the first goal:

LINK
[/quote]

Just looking at the highlights there, he looks a very good player. Good movement and header to score the first goal, set up a chance for his team mate and beat the offside trap very well only for the goalie to smother it well. Looks a very good choice imo.

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Ill repeat it for a third and final time for you fellas, because you obviously dont understand...

I am not saying Beckford is the only possibility... I just believe he would be better than Iversen

God your getting boring, cant you accept my opinion that I dont think an over the hill, 30+ year old striker playing in a Mickey Mouse league is the answer

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[quote user="Giovani Dos Santos"]

As for Macdougalls Perm, your comment makes you sound ever so slightly childish and immature yourself. I am 17 if you really need to know, not that it should matter to post on here

[/quote]

Yeah I know it did, that was part of the joke. [:)] And as I stated, I''ve never been condescending to anyone about their age before because I find that to be reprehensible but your post (and its totally unwarranted sign off ''idiot'') reminded me so much of the ''nauseating adolescent'' Pitt the younger from Blackadder III that i couldn''t resist pointing out the ''teenage awkwardness'' that came through in it. And of course it doesn''t matter how old you are but, to be honest, that was the least offensive aspect that sprang to mind in light of the ''dorkiness'' of your comment. 

Anyway, it was only a joke: no hard feelings? [;)]   

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[quote user="Giovani Dos Santos"]

Ill repeat it for a third and final time for you fellas, because you obviously dont understand...

I am not saying Beckford is the only possibility... I just believe he would be better than Iversen

God your getting boring, cant you accept my opinion that I dont think an over the hill, 30+ year old striker playing in a Mickey Mouse league is the answer

[/quote]And your still an idiot. Beckford is over-priced, not very good, won''t score the goals you expect at this level and not the player we need (that and he plays in league 1...). I can''t accept any opinion you have because you have no basis for your opinion. I have repeatedly given you facts and information on Iversen that you have chosen to either ignore completely or rubbish. And tbh that annoys me greatly.I''m fine with you think Beckford is better but you are giving reasons that either wrong or flawed. You even said yourself that Ashton is the player you are aspiring to and I''ve said that Iversen is very like Ashton, and yet you still completely ignore that fact. I just wonder if you read the stuff you post, or even believe it because everything you have said that you have wanted in a new player is what Iversen alone would offer the most. The fact you even argue the most is that Iversen is the weakest goal-scorer when apart from Beckford (who has most of his goals in non-league) he has out-scored everybody by miles, and that includes a lot of goals at both Premiership level and International level. I just don''t understand how you can be so stupid... It really is worrying...

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I have said that I want him here, he will score goals, provide vast experiance, has played here before, he will give power and heading ability up front and all for a million or so, so yes, we would be stupid to turn him down, he is young enough and I imagine hungry enough. He does not have pace and as I have said elsewhere, we more pace, maybe Bell will provide that too.

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Beckford plays in a lower league, the gap between those leagues and the Championship is pretty big.

Take our youngsters for example, they always get a chance in the first team and play well initially but struggle to find a final product in their specified areas of the field. They go out on loan to lower leagues and seem to take them by storm, take Jarvis for example, now Martin and Spillane are being hugely rated by their clubs at the minute.

Beckford is brilliant at his level but not at ours I feel, we need big bucks on a big player :)

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