Spelling and Grammar

[mighty yellow 0]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="NorwichsNewFinest"]

I''ve got alot of love for a well rounded debate on here. How long it will stay that way thought one wonders? Tis the school holidays after all?

Ok, so another gripe of mine to add to the ''Death of'', is the death of the phone conversation. Nothing (other than textspeak) could annoy me more than when you call a friend & it goes straight to voicemail and yet seconds after you''ve put the phone down you receive a text message from that person saying something like ''Wht U wnt''  (See what I did there!!!!). Why not call me back. I don''t want to spend the next 15 minutes having a conversation via text messages when I can have the same conversation in 3 minutes over the phone for half the cost!

I''m feeling really ranty tonight.

[/quote]''A lot'' should be two separate words. ''Well rounded'' would be better hyphenated, as it''s a compound adjective. Of course you meant ''though'' instead of ''thought'', and personally I''d have encased ''though'' with commas to aid clarity. Finally, ''Tis'' should be preceded by an apostrophe, as technically it''s an abbrevation of ''it is''. My point here is not to belittle you at all, but merely to make people realise how much effort is involved in editing copy from people with a poorer grasp of the language. Your English is clearly excellent in general, but it is incredibly difficult to get it right all the time, so we shouldn''t be too pedantic with our esteemed fellow posters.By the way, I fully expect to get flamed the next time I make an axy-dental mistake. It doesn''t happen often; when it does, my mates always rinse me for it![/quote]The problem with these posts is, now I have to read my stuff three times so as not to get ''egg on my face''. Wish I hadn''t bothered really lolllllllllllllllllz!!!!!!!111

[NorwichsNewFinest 0]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="NorwichsNewFinest"]

I''ve got alot of love for a well rounded debate on here. How long it will stay that way thought one wonders? Tis the school holidays after all?

Ok, so another gripe of mine to add to the ''Death of'', is the death of the phone conversation. Nothing (other than textspeak) could annoy me more than when you call a friend & it goes straight to voicemail and yet seconds after you''ve put the phone down you receive a text message from that person saying something like ''Wht U wnt''  (See what I did there!!!!). Why not call me back. I don''t want to spend the next 15 minutes having a conversation via text messages when I can have the same conversation in 3 minutes over the phone for half the cost!

I''m feeling really ranty tonight.

[/quote]
''A lot'' should be two separate words. ''Well rounded'' would be better hyphenated, as it''s a compound adjective. Of course you meant ''though'' instead of ''thought'', and personally I''d have encased ''though'' with commas to aid clarity. Finally, ''Tis'' should be preceded by an apostrophe, as technically it''s an abbrevation of ''it is''. My point here is not to belittle you at all, but merely to make people realise how much effort is involved in editing copy from people with a poorer grasp of the language. Your English is clearly excellent in general, but it is incredibly difficult to get it right all the time, so we shouldn''t be too pedantic with our esteemed fellow posters.

By the way, I fully expect to get flamed the next time I make an axy-dental mistake. It doesn''t happen often; when it does, my mates always rinse me for it!
[/quote]

Brilliant! I am actually laughing ''out loud'' (as opposed to what? Laughing in silence?). A damning assessment but a fair one!

PS - I''m so glad you put ''by the way'' as opposed to ''btw''.

[NorwichsNewFinest 0]

[quote user="mighty yellow"]
To the poster who misses phone calls, I agree to an extent. I would go one further though, and say what ever happened to actually meeting up with people face to face. ''It''s good to talk'' apparently...does it have to be on the phone?

[/quote]

More often that not as he lives in Newcastle and I don''t.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 405]

It’s not something that really bothers me unless it’s a name; I hate it when a name is spelt wrong i.e. Peter Callum, that one drives me nuts.

 

[Budgie 0]

I notice it when the schools are on holiday and the young kids are let loose.Probably they are sitting in the bedroom writing their nonsensical stuff while their parents are sitting in the front room worrying what they are up to!

[lappinitup 629]

I would of if I could of.....[:@]

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]They used to stress the 3 ''R''s in school, reading writing and arithmatic.  Since the last 2 don''t even begin with ''R'', I used to joke that they needed to add a 4th ''R'' - Spelling.[/quote]

And this from a country which spells colour as color and regularly substitutes the letter z for s?  Not to mention theater for theatre. Too complicated, huh? (which is not to mention huh).

Ermmm....sheesh.

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="Houston Canary"]

Any particular reason for capitalising the ''G'' in ''Grammar'' when it''s not a proper noun? - Coelho

You being wacky?  It''s part of the title if you''re not.  Unless you refer to Kelsey Grammer, in which case it IS a proper noun.

 

Thanks for the comment, NNF.

[/quote]
Take half a dozen magazines or newspapers at random (not the red-tops, as they tend to be block capitals), look at the headlines of the articles, and tell me what percentage of them capitalise every noun in those headlines. Maybe it''s different in the States, I''m not sure, but certainly over here it''s generally frowned upon in publishing. I''m very much enjoying this thread; I''m interested in discussing it. I''m not just trying to be confrontational.
[/quote]

Journalese is a separate language.

Depending upon style rules anything up to nine is usually written out - from 10 onwards numerically but depends on the phrase and how it is placed.

As in "Three year old Lucinda said last night: "I think the Norwich manager (l/c for manager in journalese)  is absolutely wonderful" or Lucinda, age (d, style) three, thinks the Norwich manager is absolutely wonderful.

As in: "Saruman the Wise, 85, said last night: "I want to know where the money has gone - Greeno, Ashton, I want answers." 

You could start that with:

"Eighty-five-year-old (and I''ve seen it done) Saruman the Wise last night demanded..............but it looks ugly and it is ugly.

Wot reeds rite.

 

 

[Houston Canary 0]

And this from a country which spells colour as color and regularly substitutes the letter z for s?  Not to mention theater for theatre. Too complicated, huh? (which is not to mention huh). - Camultoe-dium (a stadium of womanhood)

So you keep the French spelling of words, whereas we had the sense to drop that in many cases. What is your point?  I mean, do you pronounce it "color" or "col-our"?  Do you go to the "theater" or the "thea-tre"?  Making such a pointless weak insult has backfired, Cameltoe-dium (a stadium of womanhood) and does not advance your cause.  Maybe you should go back to the Cambridge U page and leave this site to the fans of individualism and democracy and Canaries.

[gazzathegreat 0]

Houston, I think what Cam is saying is why did America go on to change what is still essentially the English language which your country adopted from us.

It does make using a computer difficult, where I work we have to change the spell check often (these are often medical terms which have to be spelt correctly and if we are reading from papers in America the medical terms, which are largely latin in origin, are often changed for US text).

If you could enlighten us as to why you drop the letter ''u'' in colour and flavour, I would be interested to know. As Cam says the substitute of a z for a s is very annoying.

[Houston Canary 0]

If you could enlighten us as to why you drop the letter ''u'' in colour and flavour, I would be interested to know. -g the g

I have honestly aways wondered that about the spelling change, but came up with my own answer.  It may be wrong, but here it is.  The Americans (and this is way before my family emigrated) were trying to cut all ties with the hated Brits who so abused us colonists that we decided to do things our own way to set an example for all the other used and abused colonies that had not yet broken away from Euro- dominance.  There is American sign language, which I always thought would be counter productive to deafs travelling overseas, but with our sold history of not getting involved in world affairs (until we were forced to; the Monroe Doctrine and all that) maybe our people thought it was best to just stay away from everyone else while they did their own self-destructive things. 

I really should ask a history professor about that next time I have the chance.  Or one of my fellow teachers, since a few of them seem to be really very familiar with that sort of thing.  School starts in 17 days, but I go back for some worthless professional development courses with my co-horts a week earlier.  If I remember to, I will ask Greg Aydt ("rhymes with right" is his blog, and he''d be impressed with some English input) or Jeff Couch (the funniest, smartest teacher I know) if they have a clue.  Couch teaches 10th Graders college level courses, and has the best passing per centage in the city despite the fact our school is not in the hoity toity suburbs. 

That''s way more than you were asking for, but I''ve had a few tonight and am typing well enough to not yet call it a night!!!!   

[macdougalls perm 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"]I would of if I could of.....[:@][/quote]

Quite petty, I know, but this is one that really gets on my wick. [:)] 

[AP16 0]

Lazy grammar and spelling really grinds my gears.

 

I can''t stand crap grammar, for example my motor insurance company sent me a letter that may as well have been written in note form, it was awful.

 

Could of, instead of could have really winds me up too!

 

 

But the mother of all gear grinding is awarded to ''txt tlk'' that is used in every day life. This shite should be banned and not even included in text messages. If you have to, talk properly and spend the extra 5p using up another message - it''s absolute tripe!

 

 

 

 

[ricardo 7,387]

I say, bad spellers of the world untie.

[canary cherub 1]

For once in my life I''m with Houston on this (more or less).

Language is not static and never has been.  For instance in American English they have retained some words which we have changed - like "gotten" which may date from the earliest English settlers (and can still be found in the Authorised Version of the Bible) but in common usage over here we now render as "got".

And until recently the hyphen was much more widely used in words like "to-day" but it looks ridiculous now.  And . . . I''ve just started a sentence with "and" which when I was at school in the 50s/60s was punishable by death.  Is it correct?  Probably not.  In this context, does it matter?  I don''t think so.

There''s a time and place for txtspeak if you want to get a simple point across in a direct way but it''s pretty useless if you''re trying to express yourself with any degree of subtlety.  To use a footballing analogy it''s the equivalent of hoofball.   

c wot i mean arry?

 

[Houston Canary 0]

lappinitup wrote:

I would of if I could of.....

Quite petty, I know, but this is one that really gets on my wick.   - mcdougall''s perm

God, how it bopthered me so much that Ted McDougall didn''t get the press while "Super Mac" (whose name I have forgotten but I think he played for Aresenhole) was the darling of the British press during my visit at that time.  Ah well, ..................

  I, like you McDougall, am so bothered by the use of the word "of" by people who choose to elongate "would''ve" or what ever compound verb phrase.  "Of" is NOT a verb.  You cannot "of" anything.  You can "have" something, but you cannot "of" it.  And yet we see this egregious assualt on the language every day on this forum.  Sad to say, I see it regularly in class, too.  This only makes me believe the students don''t know any better, which reinforces the idea that they have never had the right way enforced.  That''s what elementary and middle schools are supposed to do, but it is obviously not happening.

I tell them that you can HAVE something, but you cannot OF something.  I am talking to a wall when I do this. 

[Houston Canary 0]

 And . . . I''ve just started a sentence with "and" which when I was at school in the 50s/60s was punishable by death.  Is it correct?  Probably not.  In this context, does it matter?  I don''t think so. - Fat Strawberry

  I don''t know what other teachers are telling their students, but the ones that were fed to me when I was teaching 6th Gd English ( 11 yr olds) all seemed to thing that EVERY fuc&ing sentence began with a contraction.  I tried to explain to them (for 3 years of different classes) that you could not START a thought with something in the middle, but when I was switched to high school at a different location, the lesson had obviously not been learned. 

  I even went so far as to encourage them, if they absolutely had to (which most of them had to do for their entire stories, but ignored my instruction), start with But or And as long as you follow it up with a comma. At least that would indicate this was a new idea. I failed so many of them, yet none of them repeated 6th Gd. The problem with education in the US is not me, it is pathetically stupid administration.  I still openly ridicule PhDs in Education, and don''t refer to the holders of such titles as "Doctor" even though we are supposed to.  My own father had a real PhD, in geology, from London, and he was Mr Gordon, not Doctor. 

Crap PhDs deserve to be recognized as such.  Any PhD in geology could easily earn a PhD in Education, but how many of those blowhard morons could earn a PhD or any other degree in any science?

[macdougalls perm 0]

Yeah, it''s all too common in essays. Aggravates my nervous tick everytime. [:)]

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]

 And . . . I''ve just started a sentence with "and" which when I was at school in the 50s/60s was punishable by death.  Is it correct?  Probably not.  In this context, does it matter?  I don''t think so. - Fat Strawberry

  I don''t know what other teachers are telling their students, but the ones that were fed to me when I was teaching 6th Gd English ( 11 yr olds) all seemed to thing that EVERY fuc&ing sentence began with a contraction.  I tried to explain to them (for 3 years of different classes) that you could not START a thought with something in the middle, but when I was switched to high school at a different location, the lesson had obviously not been learned. 

 [/quote]

Don''t you mean "conjunction"?  Or is that another difference between US and UK?

 

[Houston Canary 0]

Don''t you mean "conjunction"?  Or is that another difference between US and UK? - Fat Srawberry

Whoops, my mistake.  I am pretty loaded with beer and whiskey right now, so that will be my excuse for using the wrong word.  Even so, begininning every sentence of a short story with BUT or AND as if it is part of the same thought is inexcusable and stupid.  Not everything that happened at the event being written about was part of the same thought.

Good on you, FS, in pointing out my error!

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

....and I think this is a thread for posters to display little pieces of their own level of cleverness when, what I really want to know is, not how you spell Ameobi but how do you get one?  

[yellow hammer 0]

Here''s my pet peeve.

When my daughter is upstairs, my wife will call her down for dinner via mobile phone.

Yesterday, the kid didn''t pick up the call and so my missus yelled up the stairs "Pick up the phone, I''m trying to call you..."

???

 

[singing canary 0]

sorry i spelt coventry with 2 cs !!!!

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="IncH_HigH"]

It’s not something that really bothers me unless it’s a name; I hate it when a name is spelt wrong i.e. Peter Callum, that one drives me nuts.

 

[/quote]How about Wes Hoolihan...?And also why do people always type ''alot'' instead of ''a lot''? I''ve never understood why this happens so often...

[iluveadie 0]

Starting a sentence with ''And'' really bothers me. I am 27 (not twenty seven!) and when I was at primary school, my favourite old teacher, Mr Winterbone, always told us to NEVER start a sentence with ''And''. So I don''t, because who am I to question the wisest man I ever met?

I work at Norwich Union (oops, sorry, I mean ''Aviva'') and part of my job is to sometimes check over new literature and advertising for both content and spelling etc. I was given a new advert to check over last year and one of the main sentences in it started with ''And''. I argued this for two weeks but I lost. So it stayed and it annoyed me everytime I saw it.

[iluveadie 0]

Ooooh! I hate txt spk and also hate incorrect grammar etc. However, I have just realised how hypocritical that is considering what my user name is!

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

....and I think this is a thread for posters to display little pieces of their own level of cleverness when, what I really want to know is, not how you spell Ameobi but how do you get one?  

[/quote]

Feeling upstaged are we Yankee? [:P]

Pot/kettle mate . . .

 

[ron obvious 1,502]

The point is that language is about communication. You can tolerate a certain amount of degradation becaause your brain automatically corrects the content (rather like the way symbol errors in digital communication can be resolved), but sooner or later the whole signal just becomes noise.There used to be a programme on the wireless called ''Workers'' Playtime''; there was a comedian on there who used to tell grammatical jokes. I kid you not. The one I remember was about a man receiving a telegram from his sweetheart, with whom he had just quarrelled, which said: "Hate you never want to see you again", His friend told him not to be downcast, as he had spoken to her & what she meant to say was "Hate you? Never. Want to see you again."I often wonder what became of that comedian.

[Camuldonum 0]

Any language, whether written or spoken, changes and evolves over time.

And was a popular way - starting in the 60s - of strengthening a statement (used mainly by the tabloids of the time) and it''s stuck and as someone has pointed out you can find it used in advertising literature as well.

Written and spoken Russian, for example, has also changed a great deal over the last 50 years.  Many of the great Russian classics - just as ours - are technically now in very "old fashioned" language and syntax.

[Harleston Canary 0]

It''s a question of motivation.  Like many things, if you don''t actually want to write correctly, or see it as ''posh'' or too formal, it won''t happen.  Can anyone honestly say that in this day and age there is not the opportunity to check spelling, grammar, punctuation etc?  With the Internet it takes a few seconds.  People are not passive vessels that you simply put things into (such as language skills) and then suddenly they''re proficient - any learning requires a teacher, but far more importantly, someone who is willing to learn. 

"Listening is a lot more than just being quiet while someone else speaks".

Any transfer news?