Lack of top strikers and Goalscoring performances

[Indy_Bones 441]

No, not a dig at our current strikeforce, but an assessment of player availability.Recently I''ve seen a lot of posts bemoaning our lack of a "20 goal a season striker", however in reality, just how many of these are actually out there?Last season only 4 strikers scored 20 goals or more - Ebanks Blake, Phillips, Beattie and John, with Lisbie being the next closest on 17. Interestingly as well, if you took Penalties out of the equation, only 2 of those original 4 players would have hit 20 - Phillips and John, with Beattie dropping to 16 and Ebanks Blake down to 18.With this being the case it''s quite apparent that 20 goal a season strikers do not grow on trees.Taking this analysis further, looking at the goalscoring charts from last season, out of the three promoted sides - Hull, West Brom and Stoke, Phillips obviously did the business for WBA, but after that, the next best goalscorer was Campbell for Hull, who was actually on loan from Man Utd, and who bagged 15 goals for them - only 3 more than Cureton managed, although again, if we take Pens out, then Curo managed 10 goals to Campbell''s 15.As a strike partnership, Evans and Curo managed 22 goals, Phillips and Bednar scored 34, Campbell and Windass 26, with Fuller and Creswell on the same. So compared to 2 out of the three promoted sides, we only scored 4 goals less than they did with our main strikeforce, and considering that Ched didn''t play for us for the first 3 months, it''s not a poor performance, in comparison to the other sides.HOWEVER, where we then let ourselves down was in goals scored by the rest of the team. We managed 14 goals in total from the midfielders, approx 5 from Hucks, 4 from Russell, 2 from Fozzy, 1 from Chadwick, 1 from Croft and 1 from Lappin. Compare this to Stoke who in Liam Lawrence had a right winger who scored the same amount of 14 goals BY HIMSELF! Again at Ipswich, they had Walters on the wing who scored 13. Many other CCC teams had midfielders contributing between 6-9 goals each, something we were slightly lacking, and have even less of now Hucks has gone.As also pointed out in other threads, we''ve not had a real goal threat from our defenders in recent seasons, which compared to teams like Stoke who had Shawcross scoring often from corners, demonstrates another weak point.So, do we really need a 20 goal a season striker, or do we actually need to perform better on set plays, and encourage our midfielders to get forwards more and have a shot or two?Thoughts?

[ncfcstar 289]

The facts don''t lie Indy, and this argument is fairly well put. Although from the midfield we have I don''t see them scoring too many goals, I see them more as a defensive unit with Hoolahan as the creator, maybe Bell also. Therefore in my opinion yes we will need someone who is going to bag 20 goals up front. The defence is a worrying aspect, and they should be doing more for the team in attack, but our starting 4 at the back is a different unit to last year, so it remains to be seen as to whether they will bag us the goals that are needed.

The fact about set-plays is also undeniable, we have not created from them for many years, the corners we take are to put it bluntly terrible, but I think this has a lot to do with Huckerby thinking he was better than everyone else, when inevitably at corner taking ability he wasn''t.

I believe to get promoted we need a striker who will score at least 16+ goals, a midfielder with at least 10, and a defender with a least 5, this is a formula for success, whether we have that at the moment remains to be seen, but I have to say I am impressed with what Glenn is doing on a shoestring budget.

[city-till-i-die 7]

imo ...the 20 goal a season striker is just a statement made by managers and pundits...to be more realistic teams need a striker that will score 15+ and his strike partner to add a few aswell  8-9 ish

also as stated in another post....midfielders and defenders need to chip in aswell....if this all clicks and the team stays free from injuries they have a great chance of promotion

GR has done a fantastic job bringing in the players he has done with VERY VERY VERY LITTLE MONEY avalible to him....myself and another 25000+ supporters are still hoping 4 that big name signing just to give us that little bit xtra

5 weeks ago i was dreding the season ahead...now im quite optermistic....if GR can bring in 2 maybe 3 more faces then who knows

.....COME ON U YELLOWS

[Michael Bates 9]

With regard to goals, i do believe if we can get the team playing more attacking football and pressing further up the pitch we can score the goals needed to get into the top 6 spot... Russell if he gets played will/can chip in a fair few goals, id say about 4-5... Clinghan isn''t a goalscorer and is a defensive midfielder, however when he joined he was given the name of a ''great free kick-taker''.. So maybe he might put a few free kicks in?? 2-3.. Fotheringham is someone who i just cannot see scoring much atall but he could pop up in the right positions here and then and grab 3-4 if lucky... Hoolahan i believe will be told to play a very much attacking role in the team, cuttin inside and supporting the front strikers so i can see a few goals from him, with regards to the right hand side of midfield, crofty just cannt score to save his life lol... so its then down to Bell, don''t know much about him so cannot make a judgement on him... with our full backs i cannot see much coming from them, maybe 2-3 goals total from both full-back positions? Shame as i think if Ostemobor was more confident about overlapping our wingers he could cause all sorts of problem with his pace, IMO he could well be fastest player in the Championship over 50meters... Then Center backs... Stefanovic has a known name to score a few every season from set pieces and i dont expect that to dry off, so i rekon to expect atleast 3 from him this season... And this Kennedy Bloke im not aware of much, however read today Fotheringham says he is superb in the air so that might suggest good at set pieces possibly?? Shackell and Dogheerty we know all about lol... lucky to get the on target even!! Then the main produce in the strikers... I rekon with all the doubters Cureton is still capable of scoring 15+ goals a season, he gets himself about an awful lot and so you will always see him miss good opportunities but he also puts a fair share away and the odd stunner!! That will be boosted this season with a bigger prescense athletic striker hopefully, being our proposed target man and Krumar... Lupoli also can score goals, Overall strikers wise i think we will have a great bunch to choose from with some tricky selection problems which is exactly what we want! :) On the ball city!!!

[lucky green trainers 0]

yeah, but last season was a funny one - what were the stats like for the previous year???for me, we need a good, experienced target man, with the potential to score 20 goals...as for curo, he did ok last term considering he was suffering from an appendix prob, probably lingering on from his food poisioning at the colney BBQ...he could be back to his best this season, certainly his spurs goal was composed and well taken, whereas last year he seemed to snatch and rush at chances - obviously lacking somewhat in confidence, or simply unwell...yeah, we don''t score enough from midfield, but that may change this year if they are apt to go forward rather than sitting back and protecting the back four...cos how many of our midfielders make runs into the box??? hardly ever...i recall gibbs making runs a plenty - but never being picked out by anyone - which says it all...and as for crofty - he never goes looking for a goal.''; if you watch him, he doesn''t attack the post when crosses come over the opposite wing - he''s way too deep outside the 18 yard box - how is the boy gonna score from there?/,tiny taylor showed the way - scoring some gooduns from corners - meanwhile poor ole doc (and shax) continue to get to headers at crosses first, but they mistime it -getting under the ball, and heading over...ouch!!! 

[GJP 79]

[quote user="lucky green trainers"]

and as for crofty - he never goes looking for a goal.''; if you watch him, he doesn''t attack the post when crosses come over the opposite wing - he''s way too deep outside the 18 yard box - how is the boy gonna score from there?/,


[/quote]

I may be wrong but I thik that''s something they''ve looked at improving. I think when Roder and co got a bit more settled in they were working on that towards the end of last season, Crofty getting into that spce when the ball comes across.

[breaker2 0]

Another idea is having a much better defence, let in less goals, therefore less of a need to score bundles of goals. A more boring solution, but possibly less expensive?

I however believe we have possibly to 15 plus goal scorers in our squad...Cureton and Lupoli. As a Gooner, i was more than a little annoyed when Arturo left on a free, as he''s the player i believed Arsenal needed badly, a ''fox in the box''!

Cureton 2 seasons ago took the Championship by storm, this season his return s fairly okay.

Whats missing?

Well for me its the old cliche of ''a target man'', so for me who Glenn signs to fill this void is crucial.

OJ should provide a real burst of pace, and energy, and who knows even Martin may be able to do something!

Breakers punt of the day...Vjatšeslav Zahovaiko, at 6ft 2, and with a goal every 1.32 games, not bad. The Estonian International is also a free agent. hmmmm

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

In Cureton and Lupoli we have 2 players who are very sharp in and around the box and can feed off of a target man, if we get that man in i predict good returns for the pair of them. None of us really know what to expect from Koroma but from what little i''ve read he is an athlete but raw so could be very unpredictable and with his pace and power will unsettle defenders

[barclay seats 4849 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]No, not a dig at our current strikeforce, but an assessment of player availability.

Recently I''ve seen a lot of posts bemoaning our lack of a "20 goal a season striker", however in reality, just how many of these are actually out there?

Last season only 4 strikers scored 20 goals or more - Ebanks Blake, Phillips, Beattie and John, with Lisbie being the next closest on 17. Interestingly as well, if you took Penalties out of the equation, only 2 of those original 4 players would have hit 20 - Phillips and John, with Beattie dropping to 16 and Ebanks Blake down to 18.

With this being the case it''s quite apparent that 20 goal a season strikers do not grow on trees.

Taking this analysis further, looking at the goalscoring charts from last season, out of the three promoted sides - Hull, West Brom and Stoke, Phillips obviously did the business for WBA, but after that, the next best goalscorer was Campbell for Hull, who was actually on loan from Man Utd, and who bagged 15 goals for them - only 3 more than Cureton managed, although again, if we take Pens out, then Curo managed 10 goals to Campbell''s 15.

As a strike partnership, Evans and Curo managed 22 goals, Phillips and Bednar scored 34, Campbell and Windass 26, with Fuller and Creswell on the same. So compared to 2 out of the three promoted sides, we only scored 4 goals less than they did with our main strikeforce, and considering that Ched didn''t play for us for the first 3 months, it''s not a poor performance, in comparison to the other sides.

HOWEVER, where we then let ourselves down was in goals scored by the rest of the team. We managed 14 goals in total from the midfielders, approx 5 from Hucks, 4 from Russell, 2 from Fozzy, 1 from Chadwick, 1 from Croft and 1 from Lappin. Compare this to Stoke who in Liam Lawrence had a right winger who scored the same amount of 14 goals BY HIMSELF! Again at Ipswich, they had Walters on the wing who scored 13. Many other CCC teams had midfielders contributing between 6-9 goals each, something we were slightly lacking, and have even less of now Hucks has gone.

As also pointed out in other threads, we''ve not had a real goal threat from our defenders in recent seasons, which compared to teams like Stoke who had Shawcross scoring often from corners, demonstrates another weak point.

So, do we really need a 20 goal a season striker, or do we actually need to perform better on set plays, and encourage our midfielders to get forwards more and have a shot or two?

Thoughts?
[/quote]

Spot on as far I am concerned.................just need a big man up front to compliment our shorter strikers and we are there !

[Buncey 1]

Very well thought out and constructed post Indy! It''s been what I''ve been trying to say for a while. I can''t add much more, because quite fankly the OP says it all![Y]

[Have Heart 0]

[quote user="ncfcstar"]The facts don''t lie Indy, and this argument is fairly well put. Although from the midfield we have I don''t see them scoring too many goals, I see them more as a defensive unit with Hoolahan as the creator, maybe Bell also. Therefore in my opinion yes we will need someone who is going to bag 20 goals up front. The defence is a worrying aspect, and they should be doing more for the team in attack, but our starting 4 at the back is a different unit to last year, so it remains to be seen as to whether they will bag us the goals that are needed. The fact about set-plays is also undeniable, we have not created from them for many years, the corners we take are to put it bluntly terrible, but I think this has a lot to do with Huckerby thinking he was better than everyone else, when inevitably at corner taking ability he wasn''t. I believe to get promoted we need a striker who will score at least 16+ goals, a midfielder with at least 10, and a defender with a least 5, this is a formula for success, whether we have that at the moment remains to be seen, but I have to say I am impressed with what Glenn is doing on a shoestring budget.[/quote]

Defender that could get five, kennedy he''s good in the air, midfielder could be on of two hoolahan or as croft has stated needs to up his goal tally which i believe he could do if he ran with the intention of getting in the box to shoot rather the run wide down the right and deliver a half hearted cross. And upfront well at the mo i can see lupoli if he has a good start scoring goals for fun with his quality.

 

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="lucky green trainers"]

and as for crofty - he never goes looking for a goal.''; if you watch him, he doesn''t attack the post when crosses come over the opposite wing - he''s way too deep outside the 18 yard box - how is the boy gonna score from there?/,

[/quote]

I may be wrong but I thik that''s something they''ve looked at improving. I think when Roder and co got a bit more settled in they were working on that towards the end of last season, Crofty getting into that spce when the ball comes across.

[/quote]i should hope so!!!

[Saint Canary 0]

I have been saying for several seasons now that goalscoring from defence and most crucially from the midfield has been our biggest problem, not strikers.  Even with 20 goal-a-season strikers like Ashton and Earnie we still struggled because we were over reliant on them.  To be fair Cureton did OK last season considering the amount of goals he got to games started fit and healthy.Not only have we lacked goals in midfield though, we have lacked creativity and the fact we score so few from set pieces (as I have mentioned in other threads) far too much pressure has been put on our strikers because at times they have been our only source of goals.  I hope that Kennedy and Stefanovic will add more threat from set pieces like Tiny did last season, scoring some important goals.  Most importantly players like Hoolahan, Croft, Bell & Chadwick have to be setting themselves a target of scoring a bare minimum of 5 goals.  Not much to ask over 40 odd games.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="lucky green trainers"]Yeah, but last season was a funny one - what were the stats like for the previous year???[/quote]Having checked the Football League website in the past five seasons fourteen players have scored 20+ league goals in a season. These are :2003/04Earnshaw (Cardiff) - 21Harewood (West Ham) - 25Johnson (Palace) - 272004/05Sheringham (West Ham) - 20Roberts (Wigan) - 21Ellington (West Ham) - 242005/06King (Watford) - 212006/07Kamara (West Brom) - 20Chopra (Cardiff) - 22Cureton (Colchester) - 232007/08John (Southampton) - 20Beattie (Sheff Utd) - 22Phillips (West Brom) - 22Ebanks-Blake (Wolves) - 23Of those fourteen players just under half (Johnson, Sheringham, Roberts, Ellington, King and Phillips) played for a team that was promoted at the end of the season, either automatically or via the play offs. I''m not really sure whether any of that proves or disproves Indy''s theory but it''s worth noting that in the first year I used we won The Championship and our top scorers were Hucks (13), McKenzie (9), Roberts (8), Svensson (7), Francis (5), McVeigh (5) [^o)]

[whoareyou? 0]

Earnie would have beaten that comfortably in his last season for us had he not missed such a big number of games through injury.

However, i reckon you are far better having two players wwho will get between 15-20 goals each so you are not over reliant on one player to score them all.

[bristol_canary 0]

I''d say we need a big man striker and a big man as cover for the big man striker.

[chicken 0]

Right so we look at the new look midfield and I think we already look better.Hoolahan although maybe not as prolific as Huckerby maybe just a bit more balanced which may allow other players to commit to attacks rather than compensate?Bell - although out injured - has played as a wide man which would suggest he may have a delivery on him. Stefanovic and Kennedy both big-ish guys who I would expect to put pressure on at corners etc. On their day both Shackell and Doc can do well in that department but one thing we have lacked is a decent delivery from said set plays rather than someone to get on the end of them. Had we had had one last season I think Dublin may have scored more.The other thing we should also remember is that it looks like we will have two attacking full backs around the team again now with Ozzy/Semi and Berty/Drury (if he can recover previous form after his injury). I hope we shall see a more balanced and consistant team now and also one that is quite happy to change formation. To me it looks as though we could line up as a 4/5/1, 4/4/2, 4/3/3 or 3/5/2. None of those seem difficult with the team we now have. Semi and Berty look to be almost natural wing-backs should they need to be used as such. Ozzy can play centre as well as right back. We have two thuggish/bully''s of midfielders in Patty and Clingan and at least two ball players in Bell and Fozzy.I have to say I remain rather hopeful of this squad although perhaps one more experienced player like Howard would just help along a bit. Not sure that Leicesters valuation is anywhere near realistic mind you.

[James Kent 0]

Indy you make a very good point and this is why I have always said that it''s about us having a number of players scoring and not just relying on one player i.e Cureton.  With the three we have at the moment OJ, JC and Lupoli we have good options with players that can cause problems and all three in my opinion will hit double figures.  Neither will hit 25-30 or anything like that.  Then we need goals from midfield and defence.  I think we will score a good amount of goals this season and one of the reasons is we have a number of players carrying a threat rather than just one and that is the key to a successful team.