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First Wizard

City & Roeder only sign Runts!

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But Blah when someone does try to argue some of his points for him they are ignored. Some of what Wiz says is bull but there is sometimes an essence of truth.

To many people say "oh its Wiz silly pillock" and ignore what is really being said.

On the other note, yes if you are not in the "clan" you are very much ignored, whatever you have to say or however truthfull it is.

 

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[quote user="The Butler"]

Some of what Wiz says is bull but there is sometimes an essence of truth.

[/quote]Much like the presence of Vermouth in Martini''s.

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[quote user="still holding out for new heroes"]I would enter into a battle of wits with Mr Wizard, but it is not proper to pick on an unarmed man.[/quote]

That was clever, I bet you kick puppies and tear the wings off flies as well.

Never mind you may find someone in your sandpit to kick sand over.

Now how about getting back to the crux of the discussion.

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[quote user="ob1"][quote user="The Butler"]

Some of what Wiz says is bull but there is sometimes an essence of truth.

[/quote]

Much like the presence of Vermouth in Martini''s.
[/quote]

More the olive!!

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[quote user="The Butler"]

But Blah when someone does try to argue some of his points for him they are ignored. Some of what Wiz says is bull but there is sometimes an essence of truth.

To many people say "oh its Wiz silly pillock" and ignore what is really being said.

On the other note, yes if you are not in the "clan" you are very much ignored, whatever you have to say or however truthfull it is.

[/quote]

Ok Mr Butler, if you don''t mind, I shall accept you as Wiz''s proxy in this debate.  Where is the essence of truth in the phrase "City & Roeder only sign Runts! " ?

 

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[quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="still holding out for new heroes"]I would enter into a battle of wits with Mr Wizard, but it is not proper to pick on an unarmed man.[/quote]

That was clever, I bet you kick puppies and tear the wings off flies as well.

Never mind you may find someone in your sandpit to kick sand over.

Now how about getting back to the crux of the discussion.

[/quote]

if said puppy was constantly yapping, whining, craving attention by defecating on the lino, demanding better quality food even though he hadn''t tasted what was already in his bowl, then yes I may kick it...

however as for Mr Wizard anyone who puts forward any rational debate is either ignored or shouted down, without thought out argument

as for the crux of the matter whilst I have concerns re lack of strikers and validity of a long term plan with a perhaps over reliance on loan players I''ll judge the new players based on what I see with my own eyes before forming an opinion of their merits, something of the course Mr Wizard will never be able to do from the comfort of his armchair.

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[quote user="JC"]I cant understand your point here.  If you have not heard of them then they are no good despite Harry Rednapp and Glen Roeder being involved?  I trust them over you anyday.

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Thats right, crap, cheap, give-away, kiddies, loanee players, in other words, players that no other teams wants, or as I call them runts of the litter.

I will excempt Hoolihan from that list, but he''s the only one!

Before the barrage of taunts come hurling my way, think on this..........Not one of you have advocated signing the players that we have signed, again Wes H excepted. Most of the runts didn''t even register on your rader in view of possible new signings, so ask yourself just why that is?

Gorks, Eastwood, Rasik, Misfud and even the crock Ameobi where wanted by you, you even speculated that our budget was in the range of 2-3-4 million pounds...........so far the outlay hasn''t topped 400 grand, I know, don''t tell me, theyre all bargains!

Even our alledged small bid for Howard has been turned down by Leicester, Taylor all over again no doubt, or doing it on the bloody cheap Part 5.

Now Roeder is a saying the new striker he''s after is a fantastric young player who, wait for it, no one has heard of yet, you couldn''t make it up could you?

Now you might swallow all this and keep it disguised under ''the loyal supporter'' claptrap that you Percy''s are so fond of quoting when reality bites you in the arse....... but some of us ''other loyal fans'' see it exactly for what it is................Bulls*it!

[/quote][/quote]

So how is a player ever supposed to make a name for himself if nobody buys/Loans him? If your opinion is, that unless a player is a household name then he shouldn''t be bought/Loaned by a club then what will happen in 20Years time, When all the household names of today have retired? Well according to your theory All teams will have no Players, as they wouldn''t have signed any new ones unless they had a famous surname!

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Sorry for the delay in replying people, but amazingly, I do have to go out and do other things, I shall try and answer a few of the questions which have been raised so far.

The players I would have liked at City, pardon spelling..Howard (would link well with JC and 750 grand would get him here imo) Gorkss, Raisk, Misfud, Taylor (no chance now thanks to penny pinching) in fact, anyone who can hit the floor running at the Coventry game, and has a currently PROVEN ability at Championship level.

If there''s no money for these, then why not? where''s it gone?

I have zero faith or trust in Roeder, this is a man who actually paid cash for Fatty Patty, thought Gibbs was great, gave the Doc a new contract but not Hucks! and anyone who trusts Harry Rednapp want their bumps felt!.

Finally, I have over 50 years of my life invested in following City, and now I have to watch the current shambols of a Smith & Jones led board flush our hopes and ambitions for our once great club down the bloody toilet.........you bet I''m angry![8o|]

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[quote user="still holding out for new heroes"]I''ll judge the new players based on what I see with my own eyes before forming an opinion of their merits, something of the course Mr Wizard will never be able to do from the comfort of his armchair.[/quote]

Hate to rain on your parade sunshine but I also go to Carrow Road, maybe not as much you claim to but............

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 When do you expect those heroes to arrive Still Holding Out , your name rather implies you are not very impressed with the signings so far .

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If you have such little faith or trust in Roeder then you cannot claim to be a norwich city fan!I like you want the board out ASAP but to say you dont support a man who revived us from the dead is ludicrous.Either you support the team and Roeder or you dont. If you dont then IMO you are not a norwich city fan (however much you may kick and scream and tell us you do).

I used to like you.

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[quote user="C.T "]If you have such little faith or trust in Roeder then you cannot claim to be a norwich city fan!

I like you want the board out ASAP but to say you dont support a man who revived us from the dead is ludicrous.
Either you support the team and Roeder or you dont. If you dont then IMO you are not a norwich city fan (however much you may kick and scream and tell us you do).



I used to like you.[/quote][8]You supported wizard all night long,[:$]

[8]Made us cry, you could see no wrong,[:''(]

[8]Now your eyes have opened, that''s no lie,[:)]

[8]Tables turned now it''s your tun to cry,[:''(]

[8]Because you used to love him, but it''s all over now.[8]

[8]Yes, you used to like him, but it''s all over now.[8]

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[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="The Butler"]

But Blah when someone does try to argue some of his points for him they are ignored. Some of what Wiz says is bull but there is sometimes an essence of truth.

To many people say "oh its Wiz silly pillock" and ignore what is really being said.

On the other note, yes if you are not in the "clan" you are very much ignored, whatever you have to say or however truthfull it is.

[/quote]

Ok Mr Butler, if you don''t mind, I shall accept you as Wiz''s proxy in this debate.  Where is the essence of truth in the phrase "City & Roeder only sign Runts! " ?

 

[/quote]

Sorry for the delay Blah but watching 92/93 prem season on Sky2. Just to remind me why I support them still! Sutton,Fox etc. Great football.

His terminolgy is somewhat lacking but in essence his theme is that we are picking at the scraps NOT what Roeder might have liked if money had been available to compete with

"more ambitious" clubs. I have already posted my thoughts earlier on the players we have signed. They might prove themselves but at this stage even you must have doubts as to

their abilty or do you think that all his signings will turn to perfection? I can remember the same enthusiasm last year. Ok Grant does not stand well beside Roeder but who knows.

Wiz is now back so he can continue HIS theme. Over to you Mr. Wiz

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Roeder had a good run when he first took over (lots of managers do , remember Grants win away at Birmingham) He then had a terrible January transfer window culminating with lots of kiddies arriving on the last day , he then started tinkering with a winning team which took us on a run as bad as any Grant had only securing survival on the last home game against 10 man QPR . Now Roeder may have a long and fruitful spell in charge at Norwich but to dote on him like some sort of saviour and god like manager is just childish , he has never won anything with any of his teams and has been sacked from most if not all . Stop bigging him up into something he is not , then do the same with the players he has brought in and start living in the real world .

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None of us can really say how good Glenn''s signings are until they''ve played a few matches once the season begins. As to them being mainly players that nobody has heard of and cheap buys, doesn''t Wenger manage to unearth a few gems that way? Here are a couple of good examples from today''s Independent newspaper: Kolo Toure, who only cost £150,000; Gael Clichy (£250,000) and Nicholas Anelka (£500,000). Mind you, Roeder probably doesn''t have the same eye for a bargain as "The Professor" - in fact very few managers can come close to his talent-spotting skills.

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[quote user="still holding out for new heroes"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="still holding out for new heroes"]I would enter into a battle of wits with Mr Wizard, but it is not proper to pick on an unarmed man.[/quote]

That was clever, I bet you kick puppies and tear the wings off flies as well.

Never mind you may find someone in your sandpit to kick sand over.

Now how about getting back to the crux of the discussion.

[/quote]

if said puppy was constantly yapping, whining, craving attention by defecating on the lino, demanding better quality food even though he hadn''t tasted what was already in his bowl, then yes I may kick it...

however as for Mr Wizard anyone who puts forward any rational debate is either ignored or shouted down, without thought out argument

as for the crux of the matter whilst I have concerns re lack of strikers and validity of a long term plan with a perhaps over reliance on loan players I''ll judge the new players based on what I see with my own eyes before forming an opinion of their merits, something of the course Mr Wizard will never be able to do from the comfort of his armchair.

[/quote]

Precisely my point. Good training is done by kindness NOT by kicks and cruelty. To understand Wiz try and read between the lines at the essence of truth. Ignore the sensational headline grabbing,bad taste, then read his inner concerns for the club he has supported a very long time. I don''t very often agree with what he says but share his concerns for the club and the direction we are heading.

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[quote user="Dictator Smith"]Roeder had a good run when he first took over (lots of managers do , remember Grants win away at Birmingham) He then had a terrible January transfer window culminating with lots of kiddies arriving on the last day , he then started tinkering with a winning team which took us on a run as bad as any Grant had only securing survival on the last home game against 10 man QPR . Now Roeder may have a long and fruitful spell in charge at Norwich but to dote on him like some sort of saviour and god like manager is just childish , he has never won anything with any of his teams and has been sacked from most if not all . Stop bigging him up into something he is not , then do the same with the players he has brought in and start living in the real world .[/quote]

Did you think Roeder would keep us up? Yes or no?Did Roeder keep us up? Yes or no?I''m not treating him like some sort of saviour but at the end of the day (gotta have a football cliche in there !) he did the virtually impossible.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

 Most of the runts didn''t even register on your rader in view of possible new signings, so ask yourself just why that is?

Now Roeder is a saying the new striker he''s after is a fantastric young player who, wait for it, no one has heard of yet, you couldn''t make it up could you?

[/quote]

I think you are more than entitled to express your views, Wiz. But has it ever crossed your mind that one of the reasons that these ''runts'' didn''t appear on our radar, is because Glenn & his team know a hell of a lot more about football - have played more football, have watched more football, have seen more footballers - than any single one of us on this board? I''m not saying that we are idiots (although in some cases we might be), but there''s a very good reason why GR and Lee Clarke hold the positions that they do: they know their shit. Now, that''s not the same as to say that they will always get it right - they won''t, as Matty Patty proves - but I think you have to give some credit to the thoroughness of their scouting and their all round knowledge of the kind of players that are out there and the kind of players that they want in their team. Because, you see, at the end of the day, it''s not really about who we want in the team, or who we think we should be targetting: we''re not members of the coaching team; it''s not up to us to work with them everyday; and it''s not up to us to bring them together as a functioning unit.

Can you honestly say, hand on heart, that you - or anyone else on here - knows more about the available pool of players than GR & team? If you can, I''d like to know how many scouts report into you each week and how many games they watch. I''d also like to know how many premiership manager''s phone numbers you have in your address book and how many of them pick up the phone when you call. If you can''t, then, with the utmost respect, you are, like the rest of us, spouting hot air. There''s nothing wrong with it - it''s the football fan''s prerogative - but there ain''t a whole lot right with it, either.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Sorry for the delay in replying people, but amazingly, I do have to go out and do other things, I shall try and answer a few of the questions which have been raised so far.

The players I would have liked at City, pardon spelling..Howard (would link well with JC and 750 grand would get him here imo) Gorkss, Raisk, Misfud, Taylor (no chance now thanks to penny pinching) in fact, anyone who can hit the floor running at the Coventry game, and has a currently PROVEN ability at Championship level.

If there''s no money for these, then why not? where''s it gone?

I have zero faith or trust in Roeder, this is a man who actually paid cash for Fatty Patty, thought Gibbs was great, gave the Doc a new contract but not Hucks! and anyone who trusts Harry Rednapp want their bumps felt!.

Finally, I have over 50 years of my life invested in following City, and now I have to watch the current shambols of a Smith & Jones led board flush our hopes and ambitions for our once great club down the bloody toilet.........you bet I''m angry![8o|]

[/quote]

 

1st Wizard, I read a lot of your posts that appear on this forum and the vast majority of them are all doom and gloom!

 

I think your opinions on the club are probably as near to the opposite as the ones I have, but they are your opinions and I’m sure you don’t need me tell you that you are entitled to them!

 

I would how ever like to argue that it’s ridiculous to write off these players until after at least 10 league games

In my opinion I think Glenn has made some good purchases over the summer. I think Betrand was a solid left back last season (with the exception of Ipswich away)

Sammy Clingan seems a good player after reading the Notts Forest forum; some fans described him as the backbone to the team.

Dejan gives us the element of experience at the back and possibly a good character in the dressing room. We’re seriously lacking a wise head if you consider the fact JC is the oldest player on the books! …….I could go on but I’m sure you can paint the picture, and you know where I’m going with it!

 

I think the names you mentioned for possible targets are good ones, and we need to remember, there is still 31 days till this transfer window closes, so there is still hope!

 

I think Glenn is shrewder than you give him credit for. Think of it this way, if at the start of the summer we signed Ameobi for 2m, that would probably give all the other teams we dealt with regarding player transfer, the impression we had a lot of money to spend, hence pushing the prices up. So if we are going to make a big money signing, it will be towards the end of the transfer window, not the start (just my theory, could well be proven wrong!)

 

But I don’t think buying expensive players guarantees you success, I would go as far as saying Michael Kightly, one of the best players in the championship, was a complete unknown before Wolves signed him!

 

With regards to Glenn , I think he is the right man we need for the job. I doubted him when the club announced him as Grant’s Successor, but I like the man, he’s straight talking: a spades is a spade with him!

He has wiped out all the cob webs, players and staff (which was long overdue) and we can start the rebuilding process, which, I think, is going to be a long one but a beneficial one in the long run.

 

With regards to Delia and the board, love her or hate her, we are a stable and well financially structured football club which, I would go as far as saying is probably the envy of a lot of our rivals in the championship, Southampton being an example of one of those teams.

 

I was talking to one of our delivery drivers, who is a QPR fan. The conversation went along these lines…..

“I bet your looking forward to the new season aren’t you?! It’s exciting times to be a QPR fan!”

His reply was…

“I’ve been a QPR season ticket holder for years, and I’ve just started taking my son to games, but we got our season ticket renewals through and the prices have gone through the roof!”

And he wasn’t talking a couple of quid, I’m pretty sure he said it’s gone from something like £400 to £900!

 

And finally (I’m so sorry for those of you who are still awake to read this!!)

If you don’t think taking advice from someone who has helped bring players like, Frank Lampard, Joe Cole, Jermaine Defoe and Rio Ferdinand (to name a few) through the youth ranks and help become established England internationals, then, please don’t take offence, you are slightly deluded!    

 

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

I have zero faith or trust in Roeder, this is a man who actually paid cash for Fatty Patty, thought Gibbs was great, gave the Doc a new contract but not Hucks! and anyone who trusts Harry Rednapp want their bumps felt!.

[/quote]

 

And it''s the man who brought in Ched Evans (no-one had heard of him), Ryan Bertrand (no-one had heard of him), Matthew Bates (those who had heard of him had forgotten about him), took us from certainties for relegation to the brink of the play offs (admittedly then we dropped back down again). As I''ve said before, I respect your right to make a point, but I genuinely don''t understand your beef. And you say that you''ve invested 50 years of your life in watching Norwich, which is admirable. But Roeder, Clark and Stephenson have sixty years of playing, managing and coaching experience. I know whose judgement I would trust. Again, to stress, this ain''t the same as saying we''re going to get promoted, or that Roeder gets everything right - we won''t and he doesn''t - but reading your posts is like listening to an election broadcast by the Monster Raving Loony Party: you can say whatever the hell you like, because you''ll never be tested on it.

 

And as for your Harry Redknapp gag: I wouldn''t trust him with a five pound note, but when it comes to judging a footballer, he''s among the shrewdest there is. 

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Thats right, crap, cheap, give-away, kiddies, loanee players, in other words, players that no other teams wants, or as I call them runts of the litter.

[/quote]Well, we signed Cureton so I guess you''re right.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="canarysince1981"]Wiz does not seem to live in the real world.[/quote]

Err? I think I do, unlike a few on here, including your good self!.

[/quote]

Wiz, how much money do you feel ncfc should be spending this summer oin new players?

 

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[quote user="C.T "]If you have such little faith or trust in Roeder then you cannot claim to be a norwich city fan!

I like you want the board out ASAP but to say you dont support a man who revived us from the dead is ludicrous.
Either you support the team and Roeder or you dont. If you dont then IMO you are not a norwich city fan (however much you may kick and scream and tell us you do).



I used to like you.
[/quote]

I don''t get you CT, are you saying that we had to support Grant even though his City side was a joke?

I support the side, the players when they cross that line, and the badge, but I''m damned if I''ll remain quiet if I believe our manager isn''t up to the job.

Had it not been for some real crappy performances in March and April by a few sides in the bottom half with us, we would be kicking off this new season in league1, so I don''t buy into this saviour Roeder myth.

So sorry, but I can''t and won''t say yes to keep you and everyone happy.

I refuse to accept that given a 3-4 million budget, GR would be going after the sub standard players and youngsters that he''s now being linked to..........that to me says he''s compromising, and in the end the board will hang him out to dry when he fails, and that I''m quite sure that will happen.

O''Neil walked because of Chase''s policies, but Martin was confident about getting another job quickly.........I don''t believe GR has that same confidence.... and rightly so!.

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[quote user="canarysince1981"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="canarysince1981"]Wiz does not seem to live in the real world.[/quote]

Err? I think I do, unlike a few on here, including your good self!.

[/quote]

Wiz, how much money do you feel ncfc should be spending this summer oin new players?

 

[/quote]

3-4 million would signal a small sign of ambition to me mate.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="canarysince1981"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="canarysince1981"]Wiz does not seem to live in the real world.[/quote]

Err? I think I do, unlike a few on here, including your good self!.

[/quote]

Wiz, how much money do you feel ncfc should be spending this summer oin new players?

 

[/quote]

3-4 million would signal a small sign of ambition to me mate.

[/quote]

 

I think that would to all of us Wiz, however can you hand on heart say you think NCFC has that sort of money for 1 player? 

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In response to Wiz[:@] If I may im going to go on a little rant.How do you me or anybody else know how we''ll do next season? How do you know for sure that the team wont gel together well and finish in a play off place?HOW DO YOU  KNOW THAT GLENN ROEDER HASN''T SIGNED THE PLAYERS THAT HE WANTED? The impression that I got from the interview in the after math of Spurs (which if i may remind you was just a DAMN FRIENDLY against class opposition) was that Glenn Roeder is happy with his squad (of course it may just be a media front).  I expect an apology  from you if we do well this season (us doing well is finishing 6th -10th). Supporters are just that. Stick with your club through the bad times and the good times will be even more enjoyable. Even if in your opinion G.R isnt good enough then so-be it but FOR GOODNESS SAKE support him anyway (for the first 10 games or so at least). If G.R isnt good enough for you then who is? I bet you were one of those who didnt give Roeder a canary in hell chance of keeping us up and blow me down he did the virtually impossible and kept us up. Doesnt he deserve our support for that at least? FFS GIVE THE MAN A CHANCE! Glenn might just surprise you

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[quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="canarysince1981"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="canarysince1981"]Wiz does not seem to live in the real world.[/quote]

Err? I think I do, unlike a few on here, including your good self!.

[/quote]

Wiz, how much money do you feel ncfc should be spending this summer oin new players?

 

[/quote]

3-4 million would signal a small sign of ambition to me mate.

[/quote]

 

I think that would to all of us Wiz, however can you hand on heart say you think NCFC has that sort of money for 1 player? 

[/quote]

No, I don''t think we have 49, but Cullum has...........but thats for another thread and another time mate.....however, money always seems to be found for land deals etc!.

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