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Grumpy Old Blogger

Who started all this.....?

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It might be a good time to remind ourselves about where all this recent round of disruptive speculation started. It was the end of last month at The Norfolk Show, when Delia was asked about investment and she made her vague and rambling comments suggesting that investment just might not be too far away. She followed this up by saying that she was told to "behave" when they let her out but by the the headlines were written and teh ball was in play the ball was in play. Having been rejected when he tried to land the club on the cheap last October, believing that Delia was at he most vulnerable, PC dropped the story to Archant who picked it up and ran with it without, it seems, even a cursory glance at the legalities surround a plc company. PC didn''t get where he is today without a very deep knowledge of the subject so it can only be construed that he wanted D&M to give him their shares for nothing (along, incidentally, with all other smaller shareholders), he wanted the debt left in place and the loans to remain in place while his people took full control of the club. Make sense to anyone? I thought not.

So what''s my rambling point? It is quite simply that no one has much to be proud of in this whole sorry shambles. Delia - you should have kept quiet if you had nothing to say. Peter Cullum - you obviouls believe your own publicity and can''t bring yourself to pay anything like the proper price for anything. You may have been miffed at beng knocked back when you thought you were going to get a cheap football club but that''s no excuse for re-inventing a legally flawed proposal when the club is desperately preparing for the new season. Archant - OK, you sold loads of extra newspapers but at the price of a whole lot of local respect. The whole lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves and should all start praying that the season isn''t the disaster that it seems to be building towards. Because even if the shares can be divided evenly the blame certainly can.

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Well G O B you are not wrongIts something in the quiet light of day most reasonable posters would concur withIn isolation and hindsight your point about Delia keeping quiet is a fair one but given the flack she has been given about saying nothing and that there may have been a hint that the press knew something I am not surprised  Ill advised yes but surprising no

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Now then,  this has started out as a nice sensible thread, how long before the "Burn her at the stake brigade join in with silly one liners an sound bites!!?

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Well said, GOB.

A lot of people appear to have had their heads turned at the mention of money when, to be honest, a fortnight ago we were all happy with the signings of Clingan and Hoolahan and were looking forward to who might be signed next. 

OTBC

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[quote user="ncfcstar"]Probably not long, you just incited it, which on its own is pretty sad.[/quote] Don''t be silly I have no intention of inciting anything.I am just stating an unforunate fact.  Any way, bacck to the original post, I agree there is no one who has covered themslves in glory over the last few weeks but for be the press have left a nasty taste with their blatant (in my veiw) backing for Cullum!

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But of course it started before the Norfolk Show. In fact the week before to be precise. Although we now are told that Peter Cullum made a conditional offer of investment last October this was seemingly denied by both sides at the time. But the week before the Norfolk Show Peter Cullum hinted at a change of heart in an article in the Independent reported on in the EDP.

http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/sport/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=Sport&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=Sport&itemid=NOED17%20Jun%202008%2009%3A35%3A53%3A813

So was this what Delia referred to at the RNS and was the reported change of heart by Peter Cullum what started all this?

 

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[quote user="Grumpy Old Blogger"]

It might be a good time to remind ourselves about where all this recent round of disruptive speculation started. It was the end of last month at The Norfolk Show, when Delia was asked about investment and she made her vague and rambling comments suggesting that investment just might not be too far away. She followed this up by saying that she was told to "behave" when they let her out but by the the headlines were written and teh ball was in play the ball was in play. Having been rejected when he tried to land the club on the cheap last October, believing that Delia was at he most vulnerable, PC dropped the story to Archant who picked it up and ran with it without, it seems, even a cursory glance at the legalities surround a plc company. PC didn''t get where he is today without a very deep knowledge of the subject so it can only be construed that he wanted D&M to give him their shares for nothing (along, incidentally, with all other smaller shareholders), he wanted the debt left in place and the loans to remain in place while his people took full control of the club. Make sense to anyone? I thought not.

So what''s my rambling point? It is quite simply that no one has much to be proud of in this whole sorry shambles. Delia - you should have kept quiet if you had nothing to say. Peter Cullum - you obviouls believe your own publicity and can''t bring yourself to pay anything like the proper price for anything. You may have been miffed at beng knocked back when you thought you were going to get a cheap football club but that''s no excuse for re-inventing a legally flawed proposal when the club is desperately preparing for the new season. Archant - OK, you sold loads of extra newspapers but at the price of a whole lot of local respect. The whole lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves and should all start praying that the season isn''t the disaster that it seems to be building towards. Because even if the shares can be divided evenly the blame certainly can.

[/quote]I do believe, as you do, that it all began at the Norfolk Show and developed in the way you have suggested.

None of the participants come out with credit.

Your post is balanced and sensible but I am afraid won''t appeal to the Delia or Cullum camps.

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Soem good points here - but you''ve missed one very basic one and that is that the Club isn''t worth £36m. Peter Cullum has bought almost 200 companies in the last 10 years so he knows how to value them. Delia and Doncaster are naturally trying to protect their investment but the fact is that despite her £9m or whatever she has put in, as of now the Club is worth peanuts. On a reasonably conservative Assets less Liabilities basis, it might have a positive Net Worth but I doubt it. If there is a total of £20m due in debt, where are the assets to counter that? Say £5m of player values - is the ground and Colney worth £15m? Shouln''t think so. So that gives us a negative Net Worth. Delia''s shares, your shares, my shares are worthless.

So, with that in mind, along comes Peter Cullum and says, give me control (remember he only asked for control - that''s 51% of the shares) and I''ll give you £20m for players. Yes, he knows he has to offer on all the shares. Yes he knows the Club is worthless but remember also that once he has "control" he also has the £20m debt. Delia could have kept 49% simply by asking everyone else to give up their shares, which they probably would do. But Delia has gone on record in the past as saying that no-one should ever have "control" of the club again after the Chase era - apart from her presumably.

Don''t get me wrong - I have nothing but respect and admiration for Delia. She rescued NCFC when it needed rescuing. But the truth is that she will never get her investment back, and in trying to she is holding the Club back. You can sympathise all you like, and I''m really sorry about that too, but like your shares and my shares, hers are worthless. To suggest that they are worth £30 each is, quite simply, nonsense.

One other point no-one seems to have commented on. Peter Cullum''s major partner in almost all of his businesses is Norwich Union. Aviva by another name. John Kitson is a personal friend of his. A coincidence that suddenly (after years of refusing to support and sponsor NCFC as a "loss leader") they are our shirt sponsors? Maybe. Maybe not.

Personally, I think Peter Cullum''s was an honest and honourable offer for a financially worthless company. And I suspect we will regret not taking it.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

But of course it started before the Norfolk Show. In fact the week before to be precise. Although we now are told that Peter Cullum made a conditional offer of investment last October this was seemingly denied by both sides at the time. But the week before the Norfolk Show Peter Cullum hinted at a change of heart in an article in the Independent reported on in the EDP.

http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/sport/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=Sport&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=Sport&itemid=NOED17%20Jun%202008%2009%3A35%3A53%3A813

So was this what Delia referred to at the RNS and was the reported change of heart by Peter Cullum what started all this?

 

[/quote]

No Nutty, she hinted at "lovely new investment" when none existed.

Cullum was simply shaking the tree because his approach in Novenber had been knocked back and he knew that the "lovely new investor" wasn''t him.

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Like I said Ricky, I don''t know what happened -  I''m just stating the order in which things were reported. Cullums apparent change of heart was reported in the EDP over a week before Delia''s hints. If you know something else why don''t you tell us before it happens instead of saying I told you so after.

Come on Ricky, we''re all friends on here, the floor is yours..................

 

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I am reasonably sure SG that when you value a company you take ino account turnover and profitability, these can also be broken down into areas to make the business a more attractive proposition than it actually is.

I also doubt that Cullums offer was honest and honourable.  I would imagine it was hard and aggressive.  The current media onslaught, including this forum is testament to the storm cloud that has been kicked up over this.  My opinion for what it is worth is that Cullum has made a crappy offer for the club which has been rejected out of hand, the current media onslaught has been engineered by Cullums people in an attempt to make Delias position untenable and in effect force her into doing a lesser deal than she would normally accept.

Cullums whole professional career has been built on aggressive trading.  This takover, if it ever happens will be no different.

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[quote user="jbghost"]What an excellent post. A few people on this board should read and understand this before they post any more childish drivel.[/quote]

so are you happy with the clubs decline in the past 5 years? if you answer no then who do you blame for not investing into the playing squad?

if you answer yes then you will make yourself look a massive prat wont you.

i look forward to your answer and some Debate!

jas :)

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[quote user="Carlos Valderrama"]

I am reasonably sure SG that when you value a company you take ino account turnover and profitability, these can also be broken down into areas to make the business a more attractive proposition than it actually is.

I also doubt that Cullums offer was honest and honourable.  I would imagine it was hard and aggressive.  The current media onslaught, including this forum is testament to the storm cloud that has been kicked up over this.  My opinion for what it is worth is that Cullum has made a crappy offer for the club which has been rejected out of hand, the current media onslaught has been engineered by Cullums people in an attempt to make Delias position untenable and in effect force her into doing a lesser deal than she would normally accept.

Cullums whole professional career has been built on aggressive trading.  This takover, if it ever happens will be no different.

[/quote]

So what?

I remember when ''Deals No Deals'' and her Hubby became the saviour''s......Then, before you could say ''Craig Bellamy'' an extension was knocked up behind the Barclay......Strange as it may seem, but it was a restyrunt type thingy......

I just cannot accept, that folk think the major-shareholding duo, are just in it for the benefit of Norwich City Football Club. It''s the same about Bristolian Donkster, Hull City Rogernator.....They''re fuggin'' business folk ''FIRST AND FOREMOST''.....The fan ''bit'' - is just a placebo. Money! Money! Money!.....Those who have MONEY! Want more MONEY......

She''ll sit with the fans at the ''big events''....Have yet to witness her sat on a ''Canary Club Cabbage coach'' or trekkin'' off to games in the back of a fiesta.....C''mon, let''s get real. We are football fans, we suffer the trials and tribulations of being a football fan......I should think that many folk who support the club, sacrifice a lot to pay for tickets. Looks good on the CV if you have ''NCFC Director'' on it. It''s not the middle and working class entertainment anymore........

Do they really care about us? Oh, and that includes Cullum.....

 

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[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="Carlos Valderrama"]

I am reasonably sure SG that when you value a company you take ino account turnover and profitability, these can also be broken down into areas to make the business a more attractive proposition than it actually is.

I also doubt that Cullums offer was honest and honourable.  I would imagine it was hard and aggressive.  The current media onslaught, including this forum is testament to the storm cloud that has been kicked up over this.  My opinion for what it is worth is that Cullum has made a crappy offer for the club which has been rejected out of hand, the current media onslaught has been engineered by Cullums people in an attempt to make Delias position untenable and in effect force her into doing a lesser deal than she would normally accept.

Cullums whole professional career has been built on aggressive trading.  This takover, if it ever happens will be no different.

[/quote]

So what?

I remember when ''Deals No Deals'' and her Hubby became the saviour''s......Then, before you could say ''Craig Bellamy'' an extension was knocked up behind the Barclay......Strange as it may seem, but it was a restyrunt type thingy......

I just cannot accept, that folk think the major-shareholding duo, are just in it for the benefit of Norwich City Football Club. It''s the same about Bristolian Donkster, Hull City Rogernator.....They''re fuggin'' business folk ''FIRST AND FOREMOST''.....The fan ''bit'' - is just a placebo. Money! Money! Money!.....Those who have MONEY! Want more MONEY......

She''ll sit with the fans at the ''big events''....Have yet to witness her sat on a ''Canary Club Cabbage coach'' or trekkin'' off to games in the back of a fiesta.....C''mon, let''s get real. We are football fans, we suffer the trials and tribulations of being a football fan......I should think that many folk who support the club, sacrifice a lot to pay for tickets. Looks good on the CV if you have ''NCFC Director'' on it. It''s not the middle and working class entertainment anymore........

Do they really care about us? Oh, and that includes Cullum.....

 

[/quote]the poor give a greater proportion of the income to charity than the rich...tells you all you need to know about human nature...just like the bank of england is determined to beat inflation by inducing a recession, never mind the aspirational masses who swallowed (greedily sometimes)  the profit maxim at the heart of our society and invested in owning their own houses...only to discover the lenders had been more greeedier and reckless than themselves...(in small print - investments can rise and fall - despite brown declaring no more boom and busts...)

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It strikes me that alot of people are banging on about Cullum not being prepared to pay a fair price for the club without recognising that the high share value is based entirely on fixed assets.  And what have the club spent tens of £millions on during their tenure.....?  And what affect has this re-direction of funds had on the team.....?  The clubs` 12-year "obsession" with fixed-asset expenditure has boosted the value of the main shareholders stakes whilst the team has sunk to it`s lowest level in decades.

Time to smell the coffee folks.....

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