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colneycanary

NORWICH TAKEOVER ALL OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[quote user="lucky green trainers"]agreed, cullum should buy the whole club out lock stock and barrel...

less messy then, clean break, move on...

always better in life imo...
[/quote]

But how much for?  It appears that the reason why negotiations broke down is that he''s not prepared to pay for the assets, only invest in the team. (Although the full facts aren''t known)  If he''s only prepared to put money in to the team and spend nothing on buying the assets of the club it will never happen.  Are all the fans going to give away, for nothing, their shares that they bought for £25 each.  I don''t think so.  It''s easy coming on to these message boards saying "Cullum should buy the whole club", but can someone please think!  How much should people be expected to sell their shares for?  What is he realistically likely to offer?  In the statement it mentions that there are some legal obligations that would not be met by his offer, what are they? 

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[quote user="kiwiNCFC"]I dont want delia to go because if it wasnt for her we wouldnt have half of the national media coverage, and she is a great person to have on the board but i feel that we will never know the full reason on why we didnt accept the deal, but think about it, if it was a really good deal delia would have accepted it, there must be something iffy about cullum
[/quote]

Hey Kiwi - would you be willing to autograph one of your excellent cookery books as my Mum has a birthday coming up? [;)]

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Yes it is true that all the facts are yet to be released. The chances of that happening are very slim I''d  say. What we do know is that Delia Smith at the beginning of the year stated that she would be willing to talk to people who met her list of must haves. Of course we know this is not spot on as it was only due to Cullum going to the press that actually led to them talking about a deal. It also needed Norwich Union to bring the two together. I get the impression, and its an educated impression, that no matter who offers to take over the club the terms will never be right for them. They don''t want to let go and the even more unsettling thing is they only seem likely to let go if they get lots of cash for it. If that is having the best interests of the club at heart then we''ll never see this club move forwards. We already know that they won''t invest their own money in to allow us to compete. Not because they don''t want to necessarily but because they can''t. They don''t have the backing to make us successful and when a man comes along who is a City supporter and isn''t just someone out to make quick money like another East Anglian club will find; they turn him down and are reluctant to even talk to him. I wouldn''t say I''m being lured by quick money. What I''m seeing is the chance for Norwich to finally get things in order and lessen the threat of relegation which at this point in time is a very real possibility. With Cullum''s backing it is very possible that we move in an upwards direction, not guareneed, but I would say it would be more likely than to continue downwards. With the current owners we are only heading one way. No doubt they''ve done some very good things for this football club but its time to go and they need to recognise the fact that if they continue the club will only lose value as we''re definitely not going to be heading up this season.

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Absolutley ridiculous, how can you possibly be calling for Delia''s head when you have absolutely no idea about any of the details of the deal? For all we know Cullum could have wanted to invest £20 million, built a decent team, then merged with the scum to create East Anglian All Stars FC. Would that be in the best interests of the club??

 Yes, the silence from Carrow Road is deafening and it''s pi**ing me off as much as the rest of you, but lets wait for all the details to come out before coming to a sensible, and rationale decision not a hot-heading, hate-fuelled, emotional decision

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[quote user="Pboro_Canary"]

[quote user="kiwiNCFC"]I dont want delia to go because if it wasnt for her we wouldnt have half of the national media coverage, and she is a great person to have on the board but i feel that we will never know the full reason on why we didnt accept the deal, but think about it, if it was a really good deal delia would have accepted it, there must be something iffy about cullum[/quote]

Hey Kiwi - would you be willing to autograph one of your excellent cookery books as my Mum has a birthday coming up? [;)]

[/quote]to be honest pboro without delia we would be left out of the media so much,

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It seems to me that whatever the deal offered by Cullum and regardless of the true situation, 

the announcement of ''immediate termination of negotiations'',

the fact that even if Cullum did not offer enough they could make no progress and have called it off publicly,

that he is a Norwich born , NCFC supporting billionaire with a legitimate business, no human rights issues or dodgy Russian utilities purchased,

that regardless of the initial offer being not good enough for the board Cullum fits all Delia''s criteria 

that there seems a real intransigence about the board specifically led by Delia, that there has been no other announcements on additional funding   

that we have bought only 3 players for a total transfer outlay of £250k

that all we get is misinformation, no information or a new line of badges, away shirts or whatever

Delia''s seen as a cook, Cullum seen as a successful businessman , 

The Smiths and maybe the Turners positions look ultimately untenable as whatever they announce next, unless it is £20m players, will ridiculed, scorned and dismissed as no good. Norwich and Norfolk people will take a lot before they get angry but when they do it''s time to bail out, it''s a shame and it will be bloody but I can''t see that it can be anything but over.  

 

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[quote user="kiwiNCFC"]I dont want delia to go because if it wasnt for her we wouldnt have half of the national media coverage, and she is a great person to have on the board but i feel that we will never know the full reason on why we didnt accept the deal, but think about it, if it was a really good deal delia would have accepted it, there must be something iffy about cullum[/quote]The fact of the matter is that it''s a mutually comfortable relationship between Smith & the board.   Smith uses "little old Norwich" as a marketing tool for her cookery books/magazine empire and the club uses Delia as a point of interest for the media.       The problem is that Ms Smith needs to wise up and realise that despite the majority of Norwich fans being relatively laid back about their team, once they are riled, things can get very difficult for them indeed.   She''s hardly going to look good in the media when 20,000 fans start chanting "We want Delia out" after the first defeat of the season is she?   Of course it will create  a fair amount of negative press for her - but then is she bothered by that - the fact that her name is in headlights means that people start talking about her - and then hopefully they''ll remember that she writes cookery books - and hey presto, she''s just sold another few thousand of her books...Cullum''s offer (as far as what has been reported) was for players - not to write off debt etc - and it''s a very puzzling reaction from the club.    Interesting days indeed and I don''t think we''ve heard the last of this...

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Seems to me that Cullum has been playing games, using the fans to try and get the club on the cheap. Based on the £20m offer that would only buy players he seemed to expect the club for free.

If he is a true fan then he should either buy the club and pay a fair payment to those that have supported it over the years or put some money in without actually wanting something in return other than the pleasure, the appreciation of the fans and the club .

Accepting all this the club having been put in a very awkward position MUST respond and explain things clearly to the fans or the first home mach will be a riot of hatred

Cullem must also do his bit otherwise we will be a laughing stock.Lightning [li]

 

 

 

 

 

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Seems to me that Cullum has been playing games, using the fans to try and get the club on the cheap. Based on the £20m offer that would only buy players he seemed to expect the club for free.

If he is a true fan then he should either buy the club and pay a fair payment to those that have supported it over the years or put some money in without actually wanting something in return other than the pleasure, the appreciation of the fans and the club .

Accepting all this the club having been put in a very awkward position MUST respond and explain things clearly to the fans or the first home mach will be a riot of hatred

Cullem must also do his bit otherwise we will be a laughing stock.Lightning [li]

 

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="KenBrown"]A lot of posters are doing exactly what they are criticising Delia for  - getting emotional and not listening

There are some intelligent arguments on the board that show not everybody was duped by the lure of quick money  Actually a good analogy painted by the poster describing  the house scenario  Would you give up the title of your house cos somebody did some improvements to it - I doubt it but then football is different!

First , most posters dont know the details but It must be Delia''s fault ( grass is always greener on the other side syndrome)

PC is of course a saint, after all he did support NCFC so he cant be anything else

So whats the next intelligent action force Deali out by by instigating a Delia out vote on the web  now any predator can have a go at the club because she and the board get fed up with the hassle

I am not defending DS at all cost but have siad that buing and selling a football club. like any business is complicated.  It doesnt happen over night or in one meeting

One thing we need to know is Does PC want to invest in or own the club.  If its the former then his investment is very welcome but he cant expect to take control and if its the later then he has to pay a fair price.  He cant have it both ways and frankly a one off investment of £20m as nice as it sounds is not enough




[/quote]

 

Sorry but are you saying the only way he can invest in the club is to give us £20 million but not get any say in the running of the club for that? Why on earth would anyone ever invest on that basis?

 

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For all we know Cullum could have wanted to invest £20 million, built a

decent team, then merged with the scum to create East Anglian All Stars

FC. Would that be in the best interests of the club??

Would that be Peter Cullum, lifelong Norwich City fan and former schoolboy player?

I don''t think any of us can doubt his credentials or intentions, to be

honest, so I hope you''re using this board''s new favourite toy, irony?

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[quote user="Fan in training"]

Seems to me that Cullum has been playing games, using the fans to try and get the club on the cheap. Based on the £20m offer that would only buy players he seemed to expect the club for free.

If he is a true fan then he should either buy the club and pay a fair payment to those that have supported it over the years or put some money in without actually wanting something in return other than the pleasure, the appreciation of the fans and the club .

Accepting all this the club having been put in a very awkward position MUST respond and explain things clearly to the fans or the first home mach will be a riot of hatred

Cullem must also do his bit otherwise we will be a laughing stock.Lightning [li]

 

Cullum doesn''t have to do anything, as Deal Maker of the year in 2005 or whatever, he knows that he can just wait now and all the pressure is on the Smiths. He''s a clever guy with more money than all the current board put together and with ruthless business acumen that they can''t match.  

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

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Can someone please explain to me how offering £20 million for a controlling stake in the club is "on the cheap" because that statement is one I am really struggling with?

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OK fair enough, not the best of examples but the fact is that we do not know the ins and outs of the deal. Therefore i feel it is extremely premature to be calling for Delia and Hubby to stand down, we need details to come to a rationale decision. Whether or not we get those details is, of course, another matter..........

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]

[quote user="KenBrown"]A lot of posters are doing exactly what they are criticising Delia for  - getting emotional and not listening There are some intelligent arguments on the board that show not everybody was duped by the lure of quick money  Actually a good analogy painted by the poster describing  the house scenario  Would you give up the title of your house cos somebody did some improvements to it - I doubt it but then football is different!First , most posters dont know the details but It must be Delia''s fault ( grass is always greener on the other side syndrome)PC is of course a saint, after all he did support NCFC so he cant be anything elseSo whats the next intelligent action force Deali out by by instigating a Delia out vote on the web  now any predator can have a go at the club because she and the board get fed up with the hassleI am not defending DS at all cost but have siad that buying and selling a football club. like any business is complicated.  It doesnt happen over night or in one meetingOne thing we need to know is Does PC want to invest in or own the club.  If its the former then his investment is very welcome but he cant expect to take control and if its the later then he has to pay a fair price.  He cant have it both ways and frankly a one off investment of £20m as nice as it sounds is not enough

[/quote]

 

Sorry but are you saying the only way he can invest in the club is to give us £20 million but not get any say in the running of the club for that? Why on earth would anyone ever invest on that basis?

 

[/quote]No that wasnt said anywhere in the post.    There is a world of difference between having a say and having control An investment buys you a share in the club commensurate with the investmentBut you highlight that most want the opposite to happen.  Delia to give up her ownership without getting adequate returnIt would appear that PC wants nothing to do with the club  He wants to be associated with the glory of buying "star" players  The fact that the rest of the club , infrastucture including ground training facilities dont come into suggest to me that he is simply a glory hunter and playing the fans  You cant have players without a club and vice versa     

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]Can someone please explain to me how offering £20 million for a controlling stake in the club is "on the cheap" because that statement is one I am really struggling with?[/quote]thats for transfers, he still needs to offer money to cover our debts and to buy Delia''s stakes. I''m just so disappointed this morning, all that hope and as usual its snatched away from us..........I''m just getting pissed off hearing about it all.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]Can someone please explain to me how offering £20 million for a controlling stake in the club is "on the cheap" because that statement is one I am really struggling with?[/quote]

Because the £20m is not for any of the assets of the club, it''s to buy new players. 

An example often used, it''s like me buying an extension for your house but insist on you giving me the house first.  Yes I''m investing, but I will get the benefit of the increased value, plus I will have got your house "on the cheap".  I.e. you will have given it to me with on the basis that I will invest.

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I''d love to know what money the board actually has to spend on decent players then if they turned down £20million to spend solely on playing staff.

£20million = Great players

Great Players = Premiership chance

Premiership = Massive Massive Massive Income

Gutted to see this report this morning, I just hope Delia and Co. have some secret stash of gold to spend, because if not when it''s another struggling season for us I fear...

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[quote user="Carrow Roeder"]I''d love to know what money the board actually has to spend on decent players then if they turned down £20million to spend solely on playing staff.

£20million = Great players

Great Players = Premiership chance

Premiership = Massive Massive Massive Income

Gutted to see this report this morning, I just hope Delia and Co. have some secret stash of gold to spend, because if not when it''s another struggling season for us I fear...[/quote]me too, my air of optimism has well and truely gone!! I feel gutted, transfers need to come in form Delia now, she has to convince us of her worth to the club

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[quote user="dhickl"]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]Can someone please explain to me how offering £20 million for a controlling stake in the club is "on the cheap" because that statement is one I am really struggling with?[/quote]

Because the £20m is not for any of the assets of the club, it''s to buy new players. 

An example often used, it''s like me buying an extension for your house but insist on you giving me the house first.  Yes I''m investing, but I will get the benefit of the increased value, plus I will have got your house "on the cheap".  I.e. you will have given it to me with on the basis that I will invest.

[/quote]

No if you want to use simplistic analogies its like me offering to build a massive £200,000 new wing/extension for your £100,000 house. You need that extension as the house is now too small for you and you cannot afford the extension yourself. In return I want 51% share of the equity. You still own the other 49% of what is now a vastly superior house that maybe ina  few years time when the jmarket picks up will be worth £500,000.

To be honest we cannot speculate as to precisely what Cullum has offered for the shares as we just don''t know. If he was expecting them to give up their shares for nothing that would not be fair on them and i would agree that is not acceptable. I have always been of the view that they should be able to get back what they have put in. My own view from the quotes i have seen is that he was envisaging a fresh share issue to enable him to inject capital into the club without buying out Delia and MWJ. That is just speculation on my part though. My overriding feeling now though is just immense frustration and disappointment that a deal has not been able to be done to bring an investor into the club who appears to tick all of the right boxes. If that has happened for genuine reasons then so be it. If is is due to an unwillingness to give up control of the club under any circumstances then thats a different matter.

 

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1. The board of directors have a duty to inform the shareholders and stakeholders of the club of the goings-on. They have continually not.2. Delia wanted investment at all costs, when it comes to it she doesn''t does she. Half a day''s negotiation and it''s collapsed. Yes you really want investment don''t you.3. We are continually fed bull**** by Delia and the Board. They change their lines everyday and I for one have had enough of the board''s willingness to sit on their hands and change their minds every 2 seconds but hey, they still keep a firm stance on one thing, don''t put money towards players.4. Cullum was given the cold sholder by Delia. Not once a welcoming statement in the press. Not even a sign of willingness to talk unless forced. Even if his offer was rubbish, it doesn''t mean you just walk away from the best deal Norwich WILL EVER HAVE. That is plainly un-acceptable, Cullum maybe offered far to low, I don''t care, Delia said she had the best interests of the Club at heart then she would have TRIED to make this deal happen, she hasn''t and for that I can''t forgive her, ever.5. We''ve come to the cross-roads, do we stick with this shower of **** or do we, as fans, try to persue the other path. I for one now which path I''m taking.

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They now need to do something to keep the peace.  I do not suppose we will ever find out the facts about the potential takeover, so in order to move on, the club need to make an announcement of some sort.  However other than playing lip service the club will keep very quiet.  They are never going to annouce they have more investment, because that is telling the selling clubs what our budget is and as Doncaster will continue to tell us, we never talk about budgets in public. 

Therefore I only think we will hear about new investment is after players such as Ameobi, Sibierski, Rigters, Evans or a n others of quality are signed.  If we do not then we can safely assume that no investment was agreed or ever there.  I am guessing that Delia probably took a bit of a kicking from the board for her comments at the RNS, because it went completely against the clubs policy.  Imagine if Roeder was about to sign X, deal is agreed with club and player and they then get wind of a potential invester because of delia''s comments, agent and club might be interested in some more money, which in fact might not be there, deal over, thanks but no thanks, comeback when you get the money... 

I don''t think until after August will we ever find out details about investors.  Just my theory

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I could regurgitate things that people have said about this...but I only have one word..

GUTTED

DELIA OUT

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This war has only just begun and the trenches are now being dug ready to man!

I believe Cullum is trying to get the Club cheap, the more money he saves now the more he can put into players in the future etc... To be honest to pay 16 Million to buy some property and 16 Million pounds of debt seems barking to me. Surely the property is all its worth as the shares and debt right each other off???

Cullum is using the press to prepare his Army, in order to make his position stronger. Lets face it the club is in free fall and up shit creek without a paddle. No players or play off place is going to be forthcoming only another relegation scrap. Come January Delia will have no choice but to turn to Cullum''s original offer given the fans uprising against her and the strong possibility of League 1 and 20 + Million debt.

It is time to hear the finer details and take your places in the trenches. I have never been a fan of  Delia, MWJ or Doncaster as they have provided some bloody awful football teams to watch. The spin about player funds upsets me more each season and becomes more and more transparent season after season.

I am armed and firmly in the Cullum trench, I am ready to do all that is required to win this war, just like in the Chase days of letting the club know your opinion and then having a pint in the pub on the corner of the bridge to calm down after. 

DELIA OUT!!!

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[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="dhickl"]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]Can someone please explain to me how offering £20 million for a controlling stake in the club is "on the cheap" because that statement is one I am really struggling with?[/quote]

Because the £20m is not for any of the assets of the club, it''s to buy new players. 

An example often used, it''s like me buying an extension for your house but insist on you giving me the house first.  Yes I''m investing, but I will get the benefit of the increased value, plus I will have got your house "on the cheap".  I.e. you will have given it to me with on the basis that I will invest.

[/quote]

No if you want to use simplistic analogies its like me offering to build a massive £200,000 new wing/extension for your £100,000 house. You need that extension as the house is now too small for you and you cannot afford the extension yourself. In return I want 51% share of the equity. You still own the other 49% of what is now a vastly superior house that maybe ina  few years time when the jmarket picks up will be worth £500,000.

To be honest we cannot speculate as to precisely what Cullum has offered for the shares as we just don''t know. If he was expecting them to give up their shares for nothing that would not be fair on them and i would agree that is not acceptable. I have always been of the view that they should be able to get back what they have put in. My own view from the quotes i have seen is that he was envisaging a fresh share issue to enable him to inject capital into the club without buying out Delia and MWJ. That is just speculation on my part though. My overriding feeling now though is just immense frustration and disappointment that a deal has not been able to be done to bring an investor into the club who appears to tick all of the right boxes. If that has happened for genuine reasons then so be it. If is is due to an unwillingness to give up control of the club under any circumstances then thats a different matter.

 

[/quote]

The real problem is that we do not know the facts. 

Is he prepared to put his name on the loans?  If not, it''s like a 50k extension to a 100k house and wanting 51% of the house.

Is it 51% he is after or more?

I''m not a die hard Delia or PC fan.  I am just fed up with people jumping of the bandwagon of headlines and diciding that the board are evil and just want power rather than what''s best for the club. 

I have to admit that you are taking what I consider a sensible approach, "we cannot speculate as to precisely what Cullum has offered for the shares as we just don''t know" & "If that has happened for genuine reasons then so be it."

But there are a number of people on this board that I think are too ignorant, naive or stupid to belive that there is more than one side to the strory.  If you think that the facts so far have come from 2 official statements and stories from the newspapers.  If you look at the motives of the people who are giving us this news.  The club have released the minimum they can, they want to negotiate on the quiet as it would not be good for transfer negotiations to have everything public.  Although I think they should communicate more, I understand a reason as to why they haven''t.  The other source has been from the newspapers, what''s their motive?  To sell more papers, so they sensationalise things.

 

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[quote user="rum-ole-boy"][quote user="Jim Smith"]Can someone please explain to me how offering £20 million for a controlling stake in the club is "on the cheap" because that statement is one I am really struggling with?[/quote]thats for transfers, he still needs to offer money to cover our debts and to buy Delia''s stakes. I''m just so disappointed this morning, all that hope and as usual its snatched away from us..........I''m just getting pissed off hearing about it all.[/quote]I don''t agree with that r-o-b. Forget what it''s been given for because that''s irrelevant, the £20m increases the value of the Club''s assets hugely (more than doubles it in fact, even on the rather inflated £30 per share valuation). To demand that Cullum should then pay again for equity is a bit ..... optimistic. The facts are a) we probably don''t know the full story, but b) that there''s obviously no real will to make a deal. The statement talks about the "interests of the stakeholders" - that''s not just the Board, it''s you and me, shareholders, season ticket holders, the fans in general. Somehow, I don''t think it''s us they were thinking of though. Neither of the parties to this retain much credit, but unfortunately for Delia, she''s the one holding the hot potato.

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[quote user="dhickl"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="dhickl"]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]Can someone please explain to me how offering £20 million for a controlling stake in the club is "on the cheap" because that statement is one I am really struggling with?[/quote]

Because the £20m is not for any of the assets of the club, it''s to buy new players. 

An example often used, it''s like me buying an extension for your house but insist on you giving me the house first.  Yes I''m investing, but I will get the benefit of the increased value, plus I will have got your house "on the cheap".  I.e. you will have given it to me with on the basis that I will invest.

[/quote]

No if you want to use simplistic analogies its like me offering to build a massive £200,000 new wing/extension for your £100,000 house. You need that extension as the house is now too small for you and you cannot afford the extension yourself. In return I want 51% share of the equity. You still own the other 49% of what is now a vastly superior house that maybe ina  few years time when the jmarket picks up will be worth £500,000.

To be honest we cannot speculate as to precisely what Cullum has offered for the shares as we just don''t know. If he was expecting them to give up their shares for nothing that would not be fair on them and i would agree that is not acceptable. I have always been of the view that they should be able to get back what they have put in. My own view from the quotes i have seen is that he was envisaging a fresh share issue to enable him to inject capital into the club without buying out Delia and MWJ. That is just speculation on my part though. My overriding feeling now though is just immense frustration and disappointment that a deal has not been able to be done to bring an investor into the club who appears to tick all of the right boxes. If that has happened for genuine reasons then so be it. If is is due to an unwillingness to give up control of the club under any circumstances then thats a different matter.

 

[/quote]

The real problem is that we do not know the facts. 

Is he prepared to put his name on the loans?  If not, it''s like a 50k extension to a 100k house and wanting 51% of the house.

Is it 51% he is after or more?

I''m not a die hard Delia or PC fan.  I am just fed up with people jumping of the bandwagon of headlines and diciding that the board are evil and just want power rather than what''s best for the club. 

I have to admit that you are taking what I consider a sensible approach, "we cannot speculate as to precisely what Cullum has offered for the shares as we just don''t know" & "If that has happened for genuine reasons then so be it."

But there are a number of people on this board that I think are too ignorant, naive or stupid to belive that there is more than one side to the strory.  If you think that the facts so far have come from 2 official statements and stories from the newspapers.  If you look at the motives of the people who are giving us this news.  The club have released the minimum they can, they want to negotiate on the quiet as it would not be good for transfer negotiations to have everything public.  Although I think they should communicate more, I understand a reason as to why they haven''t.  The other source has been from the newspapers, what''s their motive?  To sell more papers, so they sensationalise things.

 

[/quote]

I think its pretty obvious he would have to reach agreement with the banks to either continue the current loans or would have to re-finance them. From his quotes he seemed confident that would nto be a problem.

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To my simple mind there is just question to be answered by the Board, was the only offer open to Cullum to purchase D & M''s 61% shareholding, "yes" or "no"?

If it''s "yes", then we''re always going to have this untenable position that anyone who wants a majority shareholding in the Club will have to purchase all the shares in the Club, as required by City rules.

Surely there is a compromise out there whereby the Club could propose to increase the authorised share captial to facilitate Cullum to acquire 29.9% in order to avoid the City takeover rules?

And another thing, how the hell has Marcus Evans managed to acquire 87.5% of the share captial of  ITFC and avoid the same City rules? Could someone explain that one?

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[quote user="GazzaTCC"]

To my simple mind there is just question to be answered by the Board, was the only offer open to Cullum to purchase D & M''s 61% shareholding, "yes" or "no"?

If it''s "yes", then we''re always going to have this untenable position that anyone who wants a majority shareholding in the Club will have to purchase all the shares in the Club, as required by City rules.

Surely there is a compromise out there whereby the Club could propose to increase the authorised share captial to facilitate Cullum to acquire 29.9% in order to avoid the City takeover rules?

And another thing, how the hell has Marcus Evans managed to acquire 87.5% of the share captial of  ITFC and avoid the same City rules? Could someone explain that one?

[/quote]

Firstly, he said that he wants control, which means more than 50%, so Cullum would not accept that compromise.

Secondly, Marcus Evans will have had to make an offer to the shareholders, they don''t have to accept though.

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