Norwich Board refuses to talk to Cullum

[sxcanaree 0]

Just highlighting the speculation expressed as fact in West London''s article...(not criticising but illustrating my point)

If it''s true that the Board will only speak to PC if he makes a formal offer for Delia''s and Michaels shares in the club then that too is just ridiculas, they don''t know exactly what Petter Cullum is prepared to offer this time round untill they atleast speak with him, I see no reason as to why he should have to make an offer for Delia''s and Michael''s shares just to start any kind of discussions with the Norwich Board, it''s nonsense.

The fact of the matter is Peter Cullum has offered the board to begin talks with him to see if they can come to some kind of a deal, and the Board should be well aware of the ever increaseing pressure they are becoming under since the story first came out, and they are only makeing things worse for themself by refuseing to even talk to Peter Cullum. I don''t normally slate Delia and Co like some people on here do but untill I hear some kind of reasonable explanation (that I don''t see coming) then I along with others can only question their tactics here.

How do you know?

Your key and best point is "they don''t know exactly what Petter Cullum is prepared to offer this time round" 

Until he makes an offer there is no point in sitting round a table cos you need something to discuss - not "What''s in todays paper?"

[Syteanric 1]

a mate of mine (A binner fan i''ll admit.. but he''s one of the better ones!) was saying he thinks Delias Ego is going to kill this deal... and she will suffer the backlas as a result.

I think he might just be right.

jas :)

[Show Me What You Gooot! 0]

[quote]Your thoughts...[/quote]

I would share my thoughts but unfortunately this forum has a swearing filter on....

Does this go someway to explain my feelings - [:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@]

[Hog 0]

Couldn''t have put it better myself Paint Me Yellow!

[Mister Positive 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

a mate of mine (A binner fan i''ll admit.. but he''s one of the better ones!) was saying he thinks Delias Ego is going to kill this deal... and she will suffer the backlas as a result.

I think he might just be right.

jas :)

[/quote]

I am with you and your mate I think its a screwed deal but we can hope that pressure from the fans will make her and the board act for the good of the club. Delia in the word of the great Bob Hoskins "Its good to talk"

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Jonny 5"][quote user="Forces2Canaries"]

[quote user="sturgeon220"]Cullum is very shrewd,  He is trying to stage an agresive take over through the media using us fans as a lever. I am sure we will hear from the board soon putting their side of the story but if he still keeps waving the "If they don''t take my offer they will struggle" in front of the fans noses who will listen to the board?. P.C. is playing the fans like a stradivarius Violin ( very well ). If this keeps up no one will care if it is good for the club long term or if the offer is fair to the present owners, all the focus will be on fear that we will get relegated if we dont let the white knight ride to the rescue. I know we need investment to progress and soon but I am beginning to dislike this guy and his methods. He is taking the fans for fools as much as the present board it is just that the "spoon full of sugar" is very big
[/quote]

What other methods can he use to put his point across?

If the Board refuse to compromise in THEIR asking price, and refuse to enter into negotiations before PC states that he wants to buy DS & MWJ shares then i dont see that PC has any other options available to him.

[/quote]

I agree with you very much sturgeon.

He is trying to get the club on the cheap, and is backing Delia and co. into a corner. Which is making them shut up shop (which I''m not sure is the right approach but can see why they are doing it).

If Cullum really wants in, he should at least MAKE AN OFFER! and stop just talking about it.  TBH, I think it is now too late for an offer, Cullum should wait until the transfer window has closed or he risks completely ruining this club. Any take over will take at least 2 - 3 weeks to go through and we only have 1 month before the season begins. We can''t afford to miss out this vital transfer time, dealing with a potential take over.

We all want a trasfer budget of 20m, but it is effectivly worthless if we can spend it.
[/quote]

I think you''re missing the point.  Cullum DOES NOT want to take over the club at this stage.  This is entirely consistent with what he said last autumn when rumours about his interest first circulated.  He ruled out "direct involvement" because of his business commitments but not investment, and hinted at a bigger role once he had retired.  Now he''s saying he wants to put in money for players, gain majority control (by subscribing to a new share issue) and get his own people in to run the club.  He does not want a seat on the board at the moment.  He does not want D&M to sell him their shares at this stage, let alone give them to him for nothing.

We''re talking timescale here.  Judging by his previous comments Cullum would be looking to take over eventually, but not now.  Surely they can work out a legally binding agreement that would guarantee an eventual buyout for D&M? 

 

[Big Down Under 0]

Sorry Fat Prophet I think you have misunderstood. He does want seats on the board, to go along with his taking control of the club right now. Rather than be on the board himself, he wants to put his people in. So he DOES want to take over the club, but personally take a back seat. Those people on the board would still report back to him.If he wants to take over the club (whether 100% or just a controlling interest) he should make an offer to the existing board / Delia and MWJ to buy their shares.

[Wembley_Canary 0]

[quote user="sxcanaree"]

Just highlighting the speculation expressed as fact in West London''s article...(not criticising but illustrating my point)

If it''s true that the Board will only speak to PC if he makes a formal offer for Delia''s and Michaels shares in the club then that too is just ridiculas, they don''t know exactly what Petter Cullum is prepared to offer this time round untill they atleast speak with him, I see no reason as to why he should have to make an offer for Delia''s and Michael''s shares just to start any kind of discussions with the Norwich Board, it''s nonsense.

The fact of the matter is Peter Cullum has offered the board to begin talks with him to see if they can come to some kind of a deal, and the Board should be well aware of the ever increaseing pressure they are becoming under since the story first came out, and they are only makeing things worse for themself by refuseing to even talk to Peter Cullum. I don''t normally slate Delia and Co like some people on here do but untill I hear some kind of reasonable explanation (that I don''t see coming) then I along with others can only question their tactics here.

How do you know?

Your key and best point is "they don''t know exactly what Petter Cullum is prepared to offer this time round" 

Until he makes an offer there is no point in sitting round a table cos you need something to discuss - not "What''s in todays paper?"

[/quote]

Oh i''m sure they would have plenty to discuss, the fact that Cullum is prepared to talk to the Board and Delia for the second time since October tells me that he want''s to make progress on this situation and find some kind of arrangement that the Board and himself failed to find the last time they spoke, Delia has been saying for years now that the club is open to investment and now someone (who just happens to be local like she suggested at the AGM) is willing to invest in the club and want''s to sit down and talk to the board to see if they can come up with some kind of a deal. To refusse the chance to just sit down and talk over this investment, is to me very strange.

[kdncfc 0]

I don''t care if Cullum is trying to get the club on the cheap, it''s called business and none of us would want to pay more than we have to for anything. One thing I do know is that it is absolute madness if they haven''t had a meeting with Mr Cullum yet, this guy is offering 20 million pounds for PLAYERS not restuarants and if Delia doesn''t care about money as she has said and has the best interests of the club at heart then she must get round the table with him and thrash out some sort of deal. Problem is I fear that she wants to remain as majority shareholder and doesn''t want to stand aside and is therefore trying to give him the cold shoulder by ignoring his offer in the hope he''ll get fed up and withdraw it. Wouldn''t have a problem with that as long as the board are going to find 20 million quid from somewhere, if that happens we might see a flying pig.

There has been rumours that the debt may have been refinanced to raise some money, that is ok in the short term but it can''t be done every year and investment in players has to be an ongoing thing.

[Nuff Said 5,092]

Yes, the board should talk to him but equally why can''t Cullum make a formal offer? I know he needs to see detailed accounts to make a "best and final" bid, but any offer can be subject to a review of the full accounts. There''s game playing on both sides, and to me there''s an element of bullyng on Cullum''s side in his approach via the press.

[rodentwatch 0]

Delia is rapidly ruining this club! This is an awful time for takeover arguments to be held in public. Players do not want to come to an unsettled club!

I''ve heard from a very reliable source that Delia is a nightmare to work with. She thinks she has the clubs best interests at heart - but is it all really to do with raising her own profile?

Why do we have a lawyer as a negotiator? Says it all really.

Delia - move on. We don''t love you any more

Let''s be havin enough of you!

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Big Down Under"]Sorry Fat Prophet I think you have misunderstood. He does want seats on the board, to go along with his taking control of the club right now. Rather than be on the board himself, he wants to put his people in. So he DOES want to take over the club, but personally take a back seat. Those people on the board would still report back to him.

If he wants to take over the club (whether 100% or just a controlling interest) he should make an offer to the existing board / Delia and MWJ to buy their shares.
[/quote]

I meant takeover in the financial sense BDU.  Without majority control he would have no say in how the £20 million is spent.  He''d never agree to that and nor would you or I.

I have no problem with a deal that guarantees D&M an eventual buyout.  But I do have a problem if this deal goes down because D&M want a buyout now rather than later.

 

[lucky green trainers 0]

well - cullum by definition, must be the best long term bet for NCFC...if, in the short term, he only wants to invest - then why can''t the current board explore that option??? i mean, if we were promoted in the next 2-3 years under this new arrangement, then all the board would reap the reward???lets face it, by valuing the club at £53m - the current board know they will get no takers at that price - only stupid idiots, not even billionaires!!!  but clearly, they haven''t flushed cullum out into making a formal offer to buy them out by this tactic - he''s not played their game, and so it looks like we''re back to square one, as at last autumn.  some private friendly arm wrestling, has turned into a public one.  theres a half-way point somewhere - maybe the turners will be flushed out by the impasse?<>

[Big Down Under 0]

Sorry Fat Prophet are you saying he should be allowed to take over the club running, without paying for a controlling stake?It seems that people on here think its fair enough that Cullum should get a controlling stake if he puts in 20m for players, but that Delia should allow Cullum to take control despite the fact she has 16m worth of shares invested (or 13m, depending on valuation). Surely people can see thats a bit hypocritical? If its acceptable for Cullum to demand control so he can look after his money, why shouldn''t Delia be allowed the same?They can''t both have control. Delia currently does, if Cullum wants it he should make her an offer.Final point - the Board HAVEN''T refused to talk to Cullum, that is just EDP spin. Turner, a board member, has spoken to him this week. Delia and MWJ spoke to Cullum last year about the same offer. They have spoken to him, and told him what he needs to do. Cullum is just using the fans via the EDP as a lever to force Delia''s hand.

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Big Down Under"]Sorry Fat Prophet are you saying he should be allowed to take over the club running, without paying for a controlling stake?

[/quote]

No.  Read my original post where I say that he will get a controlling stake by paying £20 million for a new share issue.  There''s another whole thread about this somewhere, I think blah started it.

 

[Big Down Under 0]

[quote user="Fat Prophet"]

[quote user="Big Down Under"]Sorry Fat Prophet are you saying he should be allowed to take over the club running, without paying for a controlling stake?[/quote]

No.  Read my original post where I say that he will get a controlling stake by paying £20 million for a new share issue.  There''s another whole thread about this somewhere, I think blah started it.

[/quote]Sorry FP there are so many posts and threads on this subject its difficult to keep up.So are you saying that Delia should allow her controlling shares to be diluted and that she should give up overall control of the club without any financial recompense? If so, wouldn''t that devalue her holding significantly? Why should she lose out on so much money, just so PC can gain control of the club cheaply?

[Neil_MacLeod 0]

People,

            Obviously things are not as plain and simple as you would all like to think, The board have invested in the club and in in many cases put more money into the club then many people on here will ever see in their life, So they want the best return for the investment (Gamble). Im sure that if all of us were in their position we to would want our just rewards as do they...Remember football is no longer just a game its a business...wake up and smell the coffee!

 

OTBC

 

Macca

[The Lucky Nine 0]

Another great post by sxcanaree on this thread.

I just don''t know what to believe anymore:-

I mean are the EDP writting this purely to sell papers, how much truth is there actaully in the story?  Until I see Cullum on TV or in person saying all of this I just don''t think I beleive it and our support seems very quick to jump on the boards back.

However NCFC have remained totally silent on this issue, which as a paying customer and  a shareholder I find totally unacepatable.  Don''t come asking for cash from me again NCFC for shares as we are treated apualingly by you!  As for the 20000 season ticket holders who have put in around £8 million again this season, some news might go a little way to reassuring us that we have not yet again wasted our money on a season that is already looking like yet another wasted one!!!

So come on Cullum and Smith (or the current board) get out there and tell us the truth!  What if anything is going on???

[Fat Barman 0]

There''s no need to over-complicate this issue.With no reason to doubt Peter Cullum''s word, we know that the Board are refusing to meet with him/talk to him.Regardless of whether a formal offer for D & M''s shares has been made, surely a meeting/conference call should take place to establish what is and isn''t on offer. At least the Board could then tell fans that they have met with Mr Cullum and that his proposals are unacceptable (if they prove to be so), in the certain knowledge that the option has at least been explored.Mr. Cullum would then either disappear, for good or ill, or would have to lay more information out to try and increase pressure on the Board.Meet - talk - release a statement. It''s not rocket science.If contact has been made already, why not tell us that PC is a liar - God knows you could use some positive spin right now!All this fannying around is pathetic, I see more mature behaviour from my kids!

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Big Down Under"]

It seems that people on here think its fair enough that Cullum should get a controlling stake if he puts in 20m for players, but that Delia should allow Cullum to take control despite the fact she has 16m worth of shares invested (or 13m, depending on valuation). Surely people can see thats a bit hypocritical? If its acceptable for Cullum to demand control so he can look after his money, why shouldn''t Delia be allowed the same?


[/quote]

You do not help your case by playing fast and loose with the facts BDU. 

£16m is the valuation placed on club''s total existing share issue @ £30 per share, of which D&M hold 61.2%, ie. just under £10m.  They bought those shares for £25 each which means they paid a little over £8 million. 

Credit to them for putting £8 million into the club.  But if PC is willing/able to put in nearly 150% more, I think there''s no argument as to where majority control should lie.

But let''s address the real issue.  Should the deal be allowed to fail because D&M insist on a buyout now rather than later?  What''s your view?

 

 

[CNS-Canary 0]

Its a disgrace, disrespectful and just down right stupid, if noone speaks to PC. Board out!

OTBC

 

[Fat Barman 0]

[quote user="Neil_MacLeod"]

People,

            Obviously things are not as plain and simple as you would all like to think, The board have invested in the club and in in many cases put more money into the club then many people on here will ever see in their life, So they want the best return for the investment (Gamble). Im sure that if all of us were in their position we to would want our just rewards as do they...Remember football is no longer just a game its a business...wake up and smell the coffee!

[/quote]Problem is Neil, Delia et al keep saying that they didn''t put money in to make a profit. Delia even said (at the AGM) that she would sell her shares to somebody prepared to invest a large sum in the club - so long as they met her ''fit and proper'' criteria. Without telling us why PC doesn''t fit the criteria, how are we supposed to understand this u-turn? I can understand the Turners would want their loan back, in return for selling their shares (although they could keep their shares if D & M sold 51% of their holdings), but Delia & Michael converted their loans into shares, so would get their money back if they sold at the price they paid - £25 a share.A return on their investment was precisely what they didn''t expect to get. Not many people get rich out of football club - except players!

[plan b 0]

[quote user="SAFU2007"]By the way West_London_Canary, where in WL are you....I''m in St Margarets, Richmond and was beginning to think I was the only canary in the mine![/quote]

you''re not the only one, my mate lives there and we are both regular visitors to the crown. he posts on here too but i forget what name he is under.  

[Big Down Under 0]

[quote user="Fat Prophet"]

[quote user="Big Down Under"]

It seems that people on here think its fair enough that Cullum should get a controlling stake if he puts in 20m for players, but that Delia should allow Cullum to take control despite the fact she has 16m worth of shares invested (or 13m, depending on valuation). Surely people can see thats a bit hypocritical? If its acceptable for Cullum to demand control so he can look after his money, why shouldn''t Delia be allowed the same?

[/quote]

You do not help your case by playing fast and loose with the facts BDU. 

£16m is the valuation placed on club''s total existing share issue @ £30 per share, of which D&M hold 61.2%, ie. just under £10m.  They bought those shares for £25 each which means they paid a little over £8 million. 

Credit to them for putting £8 million into the club.  But if PC is willing/able to put in nearly 150% more, I think there''s no argument as to where majority control should lie.

But let''s address the real issue.  Should the deal be allowed to fail because D&M insist on a buyout now rather than later?  What''s your view?

 [/quote]

FP you are right thats a mistake on my part. But swap 8m for 16m and my point is still to be answered.But let''s address the real issue.  Should the deal be allowed to fail

because D&M insist on a buyout now rather than later?  What''s your

view?1. I don''t see that as the real issue. For me the real issue is Cullum''s ability to stir up the fans but his inability to make a decent bid2. If D&M allow Cullum to buy new shares now, there is no guarantee that Cullum would buy them out in the future. He would already have a controlling stake, and could simply replace one of his people already placed on the board. Then vote himself chairman3. Yes they could negotiate a contract where more shares are issued now, and Cullum agrees to buy out D&M in the future. But then its back to my point on the previous message you didn''t respond to. Why should D&M let someone else have control over their 8m, when everyone seems to think its only fair that Cullum gets a controlling say over his 20m? So YES I see no reason why we should reasonably expect Delia to do anything other than what she is doing, telling Cullum what he needs to bid. The deal is failing because Cullum won''t buy them out, expecting D&M to accept anything else is unrealistic and unfair and a little hypocritical.

[Whats a right winger 0]

but Delia & Michael converted their loans into shares, so would get their money back if they sold at the price they paid - £25 a share.

How many more times HE HAS NO INTENTION OF BUYING DELIA''S SHARES. page 48 yesterday''s EDP.

[Big Down Under 0]

[quote user="Fat Barman"][quote user="Neil_MacLeod"]

People,

            Obviously things are not as plain and simple as you would all like to think, The board have invested in the club and in in many cases put more money into the club then many people on here will ever see in their life, So they want the best return for the investment (Gamble). Im sure that if all of us were in their position we to would want our just rewards as do they...Remember football is no longer just a game its a business...wake up and smell the coffee!

[/quote]Problem is Neil, Delia et al keep saying that they didn''t put money in to make a profit. Delia even said (at the AGM) that she would sell her shares to somebody prepared to invest a large sum in the club - so long as they met her ''fit and proper'' criteria. Without telling us why PC doesn''t fit the criteria, how are we supposed to understand this u-turn? I can understand the Turners would want their loan back, in return for selling their shares (although they could keep their shares if D & M sold 51% of their holdings), but Delia & Michael converted their loans into shares, so would get their money back if they sold at the price they paid - £25 a share.A return on their investment was precisely what they didn''t expect to get. Not many people get rich out of football club - except players![/quote]I don''t see a u-turn Fat Barman. Cullum hasn''t offered to buy her shares, so she can''t sell them to him! She hasn''t said he doesn''t fit the criteria in any way except the bid isn''t good enough - he needs to buy them out, repay the Directors loans and repay the bank loans (which we believe he won''t have to do, just renegotiate them with the bank).

[Grando 260]

If the Board don''t meet with Cullum in the next few days it''s simply inexcusable. End of.

[ron obvious 1,501]

[quote user="kdncfc"]

I don''t care if Cullum is trying to get the club on the cheap, it''s called business and none of us would want to pay more than we have to for anything.

[/quote]Or sell something we don''t have to for a derisory sum.

[Grando 260]

If the Board don''t at least meet with Cullum in the next few days it''s simply inexcusable. End of.

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Big Down Under"][quote user="Fat Prophet"]

[quote user="Big Down Under"]Sorry Fat Prophet are you saying he should be allowed to take over the club running, without paying for a controlling stake?

[/quote]

No.  Read my original post where I say that he will get a controlling stake by paying £20 million for a new share issue.  There''s another whole thread about this somewhere, I think blah started it.

[/quote]

So are you saying that Delia should allow her controlling shares to be diluted and that she should give up overall control of the club without any financial recompense? If so, wouldn''t that devalue her holding significantly? Why should she lose out on so much money, just so PC can gain control of the club cheaply?
[/quote]

No.  The only thing that gets diluted is the percentage of the total holding, not the value.

As I understand it, it''s not like a company where shares are subject to market valuation.  Provided the club has enough assets it can issue more shares at the current price of £30 each and all the shares would still be valued at that price.  As an example, at the AGM the club raised the price to £30 and also issued another £1 million worth of shares @ £30 so it didn''t dilute the value.  No doubt PC has done his homework and knows the club is in a position to issue enough new shares to give him a controlling interest.

I am all in favour of a deal that commits PC to an eventual buyout.  But he argues that investment in the squad is the most immediate priority and who can disagree?  A complete buyout, even if both sides agreed in principle, would take months.  For those who say he''s been waiting until we''re in a mess, his initial offer was made nine months ago and was turned down, presumably for the same reason as now. 

If it was just about ensuring D&M don''t lose out financially I''m sure something could have been worked out by now.  My concern is that this is really about control, not money, and D&M would rather have total control of a failing club (and risk losing their investment if it goes under) than a minority interest and an eventual payout in a successful one.  Putting the club''s best interests first?  I don''t think so . . .