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Shifty Sid

Cullum - not quite as clear cut as some would think

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A couple of points that concern me about Mr Cullum, that I learned today:1)  When he offered £5Mn last October to help the Club avoid relegation and was turned down, a little known fact is that this £5Mn would have been a loan not an investment.  Further more, a loan that would be immediately repayable should the Club be relegated to League One.  If he loves the Club so much why would he want the loan re-paid if we were relegated? Surely we''d need the money more than ever if we had gone down.  What happens if he invests and we go up?  Does he sell up for a big profit?  Just what is his game?2)  Why is he negotiating through the media?  Why, since October has he failed to make an official offer for Delia''s shares?  Until he does, nothing will happen.I suspect the reality is that by going public with his intentions, he is building public support, thereby putting pressure on Delia to sell up - possibly for a lower price than she would otherwise have agreed.  I suspect it''s a tactic but it might back-fire.  She is not one to be pushed around and it''s going to make her more stubborn.Personally, I''d love nothing more than PC to take over and take us to the Premiership - but as I said, it''s not as clear cut as it seems which is why the Club are right to not simply sign everything away and take his money.

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I think we''ve covered this elsewhere.  I thinks most people assumed it was a loan in the same way that D&M''s and the Turners investment was in the form of loans, and most people have heard that he wanted to be repaid if we got relegated (rumour but quite possibly true). 

What in practice would have happened is that he''d have accepted shares in lieu of repayment.  It would have been a way in to the club.

 

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[quote user="Shifty Sid"]A couple of points that concern me about Mr Cullum, that I learned today:1)  When he offered £5Mn last October to help the Club avoid relegation and was turned down, a little known fact is that this £5Mn would have been a loan not an investment.  Further more, a loan that would be immediately repayable should the Club be relegated to League One.  If he loves the Club so much why would he want the loan re-paid if we were relegated? Surely we''d need the money more than ever if we had gone down.  What happens if he invests and we go up?  Does he sell up for a big profit?  Just what is his game?[/quote]The above statement is correct, not BS.  There was the obvious danger, if the loan was accepted, of getting relegated which would have meant administration and a ten point penalty this season.

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[quote user="Tim Allman"][quote user="Shifty Sid"]A couple of points that concern me about Mr Cullum, that I learned today:1)  When he offered £5Mn last October to help the Club avoid relegation and was turned down, a little known fact is that this £5Mn would have been a loan not an investment.  Further more, a loan that would be immediately repayable should the Club be relegated to League One.  If he loves the Club so much why would he want the loan re-paid if we were relegated? Surely we''d need the money more than ever if we had gone down.  What happens if he invests and we go up?  Does he sell up for a big profit?  Just what is his game?[/quote]The above statement is correct, not BS.  There was the obvious danger, if the loan was accepted, of getting relegated which would have meant administration and a ten point penalty this season.[/quote]stand corrected!!!

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" When he offered £5Mn last October to help the Club avoid relegation and was turned down, a little known fact is that this £5Mn would have been a loan not an investment.  Further more, a loan that would be immediately repayable should the Club be relegated to League One."

Is this FACT? From what I can understand the details to what exactly PC was offering Delia and the rest of the board are very vague, the Board really haven''t said much at all other than they estimate the club value at 56m, and only wish to talk to Cullum if he make''s a formal offer to buy the club. I don''t think anyone really knows exactly how PC is planing on becoming majority shareholder at Norwich City.

 

 

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[quote user="Fat Prophet"]

I think we''ve covered this elsewhere.  I thinks most people assumed it was a loan in the same way that D&M''s and the Turners investment was in the form of loans, and most people have heard that he wanted to be repaid if we got relegated (rumour but quite possibly true). 

What in practice would have happened is that he''d have accepted shares in lieu of repayment.  It would have been a way in to the club.

[/quote]

I wonder what the status of the loan would have been if we''d stayed up?

 

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[quote user="Fat Prophet"][quote user="Fat Prophet"]

I think we''ve covered this elsewhere.  I thinks most people assumed it was a loan in the same way that D&M''s and the Turners investment was in the form of loans, and most people have heard that he wanted to be repaid if we got relegated (rumour but quite possibly true). 

What in practice would have happened is that he''d have accepted shares in lieu of repayment.  It would have been a way in to the club.

[/quote]

I wonder what the status of the loan would have been if we''d stayed up?

 

[/quote]

The problem with this story is at least partly the way it has been reported.  The absolutely key questions have either not been asked, not been answered or not been published.  I have no idea which applies but it''s a mess.

The first attempt at what is obviously a very good local story was, simply, atrocious.

 

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[quote user="West_London_Canary"]

" When he offered £5Mn last October to help the Club avoid relegation and was turned down, a little known fact is that this £5Mn would have been a loan not an investment.  Further more, a loan that would be immediately repayable should the Club be relegated to League One."

Is this FACT? From what I can understand the details to what exactly PC was offering Delia and the rest of the board are very vague, the Board really haven''t said much at all other than they estimate the club value at 56m, and only wish to talk to Cullum if he make''s a formal offer to buy the club. I don''t think anyone really knows exactly how PC is planing on becoming majority shareholder at Norwich City.

 

 

[/quote]

Trouble is nobody knows what the facts are. This is why I have so much trouble getting off the fence. Back in October Delia said nobody wanted to invest. Certainly not Peter Cullum who said he had no intention of investing. It now seems neither of these statements were accurate. If they were accurate then the subsequent statements haven''t been.

All we are left with is guesswork. We have to hope that more is going on behind the scenes. I rather suspect a sudden injection of 20m causes more problems than we are aware on on the surface. The 20m would be of no immediate use to the football team if it went into shareholders pockets in return for shares or was used to pay off loans.

 

 

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[quote user="camuldonum"][quote user="Fat Prophet"][quote user="Fat Prophet"]

I think we''ve covered this elsewhere.  I thinks most people assumed it was a loan in the same way that D&M''s and the Turners investment was in the form of loans, and most people have heard that he wanted to be repaid if we got relegated (rumour but quite possibly true). 

What in practice would have happened is that he''d have accepted shares in lieu of repayment.  It would have been a way in to the club.

[/quote]

I wonder what the status of the loan would have been if we''d stayed up?

 

[/quote]

The problem with this story is at least partly the way it has been reported.  The absolutely key questions have either not been asked, not been answered or not been published.  I have no idea which applies but it''s a mess.

The first attempt at what is obviously a very good local story was, simply, atrocious.

 

[/quote]

Completely agree Cam - have been away on holiday in remote parts (Dartmoor) without a pc, and have only seen teletext ''reporting'' of what has been going on, which means I returned none the wiser....and having read a few stories it does all seem to be a confusing mess to me, and I agree that the right questions have not been asked or answered. 

Not having kept up on the chronology of it all, it seems this all came about from an interview in the EDP(?).  It did occur to me that Cullum is trying to use the local media to turn supporters against the club/board for some reason (perhaps to get the club on the cheap) - most will not see past the headline that he wants to give a transfer pot of £20m to the manager, so it was pretty obvious how it would go down. 

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If we''d got relegated Mr Cullum would''ve simply converted the £5mill "loan" into shares I bet. Why would he ask for it back knowing full well the club would''ve been in deeper brown stuff moneywise than it was BEFORE he handed them the money? I think it was a very clever plan to get a foot in the door personally.

It just doesn''t make sense for him to want it repaid immediately in cash when hes loaded to the eyeballs with the stuff.

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[quote user="Branston Pickle"][quote user="camuldonum"][quote user="Fat Prophet"][quote user="Fat Prophet"]

I think we''ve covered this elsewhere.  I thinks most people assumed it was a loan in the same way that D&M''s and the Turners investment was in the form of loans, and most people have heard that he wanted to be repaid if we got relegated (rumour but quite possibly true). 

What in practice would have happened is that he''d have accepted shares in lieu of repayment.  It would have been a way in to the club.

[/quote]

I wonder what the status of the loan would have been if we''d stayed up?

 

[/quote]

The problem with this story is at least partly the way it has been reported.  The absolutely key questions have either not been asked, not been answered or not been published.  I have no idea which applies but it''s a mess.

The first attempt at what is obviously a very good local story was, simply, atrocious.

 

[/quote]

Completely agree Cam - have been away on holiday in remote parts (Dartmoor) without a pc, and have only seen teletext ''reporting'' of what has been going on, which means I returned none the wiser....and having read a few stories it does all seem to be a confusing mess to me, and I agree that the right questions have not been asked or answered. 

Not having kept up on the chronology of it all, it seems this all came about from an interview in the EDP(?).  It did occur to me that Cullum is trying to use the local media to turn supporters against the club/board for some reason (perhaps to get the club on the cheap) - most will not see past the headline that he wants to give a transfer pot of £20m to the manager, so it was pretty obvious how it would go down. 

[/quote]

So far it is a journalistic disaster for the EDP (my opinion)  They have found themselves clutching the proverbial local "hot potato" without the asbestos gloves necessary for doing so and without confronting both sides with equal force.

They know where Cullum, Delia and Doncaster and Glenn live.  Right, well doorstep them then and report the results.  And report the questions they answer or refuse to answer (if any).

We''d do it ourselves if there was any money in it but there isn''t and we are not going to do it for fun.

Awful stuff, so far, but I hope it works out for your club in the end.

 

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" Why would he ask for it back knowing full well the club would''ve been in deeper brown stuff moneywise......"If the club was then in deeper it''s value would have been far lower ........ ergo much cheaper to pick off. Marcus Evans did much the same to the paupers. I accept we are not, and I doubt will ever be, in such a third world state as they were but the more this drags on the worse Cullum looks.It was inevitable that the over exited and the usual ragbag of club haters and closet binners would have their field day once the simplistic idea of a ''white knight'' was aired. All this kindly chap wanted to do was hand over £20m to get us back where we belonged. He''d even offered £5m when it looked all up with us in the autumn. But once again the evil board and the wicked witch Delia were doing all in their power to thwart such simple acts of benevolence - even when Mr Cullum had said he wished nothing more than to take a back seat and let those cruael and heartless Smiths continue in their positions.Unfortunately some of the gloss has come off this modern day fairy story. The £5m ''gift'' of last autumn turns out to have had many strings attached - it was also a very conditional loan, not a gift. Any money going to the club has now been revealed to mean overall control of the club not the back seat, hands off approach as first mooted by Mr Cullum.The club sits on a quite a sizeable land bank which needs to be refected in any offer. It would include Colney as well as the ground and the land around it. Take a look down the A140 where the none too bright binners almost deafened us with their childish squeaks of glee about the millions upon millions that were to be ''invested'' in their impoverished club. Sadly, as was pointed out to them, the debt was not to be paid off - in fact it remained and the interest once again began to be accrued. The supposed £12m turned out to be no more than the club being handed over for less than £4m as a condition of getting an administration saving loan of £8m - which also now accrues interest.But hark, I hear you say, the paupers have an equal number of their men on the board to protect their interests. Not any more. ''Red chops'' has been demoted to a non executive role and the board is now controlled by Marcus Evans. They''ve even removed ALL of his pay, his office and even his secretary. The finance director has departed as has a number of coaching staff. They''ve hardly set the transfer market alight since the hand over either. Lessons for us to learn I suggest.Thankfully we are not in the terminal position they were. The club is, in my opinion, right to be robust about any dealings or offers.Every genuine City fan would welcome money being available, but not at the price paid down the road. Cullum needs to be a bit more open, a bit more honest and maybe add a good bit more to his offer before the club listens to him.

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(The quote option is not working) - West London Canary posted

" When he offered £5Mn last October to help the Club avoid

relegation and was turned down, a little known fact is that this £5Mn

would have been a loan not an investment.  Further more, a loan that would be immediately repayable should the Club be relegated to League One."

Is this FACT? From what I can understand the details to what exactly

PC was offering Delia and the rest of the board are very vague, the

Board really haven''t said much at all other than they estimate the club

value at 56m, and only wish to talk to Cullum if he make''s a formal

offer to buy the club. I don''t think anyone really knows exactly how PC

is planing on becoming majority shareholder at Norwich City.

The details of the £5 mill loan were confirmed to me by a member of the NCFC staff today.

How the loan was to be repaid in the event of relegation, and the potential impact on NCFC is just speculation.

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[quote user="Paint Me Yellow"]

If we''d got relegated Mr Cullum would''ve simply converted the £5mill "loan" into shares I bet. Why would he ask for it back knowing full well the club would''ve been in deeper brown stuff moneywise than it was BEFORE he handed them the money? I think it was a very clever plan to get a foot in the door personally.

It just doesn''t make sense for him to want it repaid immediately in cash when hes loaded to the eyeballs with the stuff.

[/quote]

Becuase if the club was up the creek and owed him £5m then he might have got the club on the cheap.

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Sorry but any genuine fan would expect the board to sit down and hold talks with a bloke who is worth £1.7 billion and who has indicated publically that he wants to invest in the club. All this talk of "formal offers" is just excuses and (to coin a phrase from before) smoke and mirrors. Either sit down and talk with him or if what he is proposing is not acceptable (and it may well be unacceptable for a variety of reasons) let us know why. Its quite simple. Until this happens PR wise this is a disaster for the club as Cullum will continue to cause havoc through the media.

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[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Paint Me Yellow"]

If we''d got relegated Mr Cullum would''ve simply converted the £5mill "loan" into shares I bet. Why would he ask for it back knowing full well the club would''ve been in deeper brown stuff moneywise than it was BEFORE he handed them the money? I think it was a very clever plan to get a foot in the door personally.

It just doesn''t make sense for him to want it repaid immediately in cash when hes loaded to the eyeballs with the stuff.

[/quote]

Becuase if the club was up the creek and owed him £5m then he might have got the club on the cheap.

[/quote]

Ignore that last line I don''t know why I put that really.

Yeah, exactly. He clearly wasn''t after repayment in cash when hes got enough of the stuff.

£5mill as we are would get him only about 10-15% of the shares. As a league 1 club he probably would''ve become majority shareholder if that £5mill was converted into shares.

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It is surely for exactly the reason that he is worth £1.7 billion that they haven''t come out and dismissed him out of hand. They still hope in some way  some of that cash will find its way into CR & don''t want to totally alienate him.  If he is sticking to his original offer however what is there to talk about. After all the prpoosal to date even if it was £20 million,  and I''d heard the same story as Sid that it was 5, is about 1.1% of his wealth

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]Sorry but any genuine fan would expect the board to sit down and hold talks with a bloke who is worth £1.7 billion and who has indicated publically that he wants to invest in the club. All this talk of "formal offers" is just excuses and (to coin a phrase from before) smoke and mirrors. Either sit down and talk with him or if what he is proposing is not acceptable (and it may well be unacceptable for a variety of reasons) let us know why. Its quite simple. Until this happens PR wise this is a disaster for the club as Cullum will continue to cause havoc through the media.[/quote]

I think that''s unrealistic, Jim. Say you''re after an Ipod. Do all Ipod stockists come to you to offer their wares for you to choose? No; Peter is the one interested and if he wants to pursue this, he should make a move.

I also appreciate that this is not a standard transaction - but do you think Cullums take overs have all begun by the firm he''s interested in buying approaching him?

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**** me! Stay up late and there is a reasonable debate....

Where are ......... (insert usual suspect of your choice)?

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[quote user="Tim Allman"]

(The quote option is not working) - West London Canary posted

" When he offered £5Mn last October to help the Club avoid relegation and was turned down, a little known fact is that this £5Mn would have been a loan not an investment.  Further more, a loan that would be immediately repayable should the Club be relegated to League One."

Is this FACT? From what I can understand the details to what exactly PC was offering Delia and the rest of the board are very vague, the Board really haven''t said much at all other than they estimate the club value at 56m, and only wish to talk to Cullum if he make''s a formal offer to buy the club. I don''t think anyone really knows exactly how PC is planing on becoming majority shareholder at Norwich City.


The details of the £5 mill loan were confirmed to me by a member of the NCFC staff today.

How the loan was to be repaid in the event of relegation, and the potential impact on NCFC is just speculation.


[/quote]

The "facts" on this big Norwich story should be coming from your local newspaper but they have not emerged so far.  Perhaps they will?

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"

Sorry but any genuine fan would expect the board to sit down and hold

talks with a bloke who is worth £1.7 billion and who has indicated

publically that he wants to invest in the club. All this talk of

"formal offers" is just excuses and (to coin a phrase from before)

smoke and mirrors. Either sit down and talk with him or if what he is

proposing is not acceptable (and it may well be unacceptable for a

variety of reasons) let us know why. Its quite simple. Until this

happens PR wise this is a disaster for the club as Cullum will continue

to cause havoc through the media."I understood that talks did take place late last year. If this is correct then clearly an agreement couldn''t be reached. Until one side or the other indicates that they are willing to make further compromises then further talks would be a waste of everyone''s time.I think the board have made it clear why his offer isn''t acceptable. They want an offer of £16million for all the shares and he hasn''t offered something close enough to that figure. It has been implied that he has offered £0 for all the shares. If that''s true I can understand their reluctance to do a deal.

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The original story, and confirmed in an EDP editorial (if that''s not an oxymoron), certainly said that Cullum would put in "up to £20 million" into the club. For this he definitely expected full control or majority shareholder status, although he would parachute in Towergate people to run the club rather than have direct involvement. There was no mention of any amount to buy the current board out - but in order to so the clear implication is that it would come out of the "up to £20 million" figure.

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[quote user="woody"]**** me! Stay up late and there is a reasonable debate.... Where are ......... (insert usual suspect of your choice)?[/quote]

Most of the school kids who post on here have gone to bed don''t forget.

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[quote user="Paint Me Yellow"]

[quote user="woody"]**** me! Stay up late and there is a reasonable debate.... Where are ......... (insert usual suspect of your choice)?[/quote]

Most of the school kids who post on here have gone to bed don''t forget.

[/quote]

Indeed. Probably does account for a fair number - but some of the maddest claim to be quite old! I know for a fact at least one isn''t old, nor is he particularly a Norwich supporter - just a **** stirrer.

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[quote user="woody"]The original story, and confirmed in an EDP editorial (if that''s not an oxymoron), certainly said that Cullum would put in "up to £20 million" into the club. For this he definitely expected full control or majority shareholder status, although he would parachute in Towergate people to run the club rather than have direct involvement. There was no mention of any amount to buy the current board out - but in order to so the clear implication is that it would come out of the "up to £20 million" figure.[/quote]

The EDP editorial would be a oxymoron by it''s very nature (aka support the splash. I''ve had to write them as well).

Absolutely nonsense reporting by the EDP (so far).  Hopefully it will get better, or not as the case may be.

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[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Paint Me Yellow"]

If we''d got relegated Mr Cullum would''ve simply converted the £5mill "loan" into shares I bet. Why would he ask for it back knowing full well the club would''ve been in deeper brown stuff moneywise than it was BEFORE he handed them the money? I think it was a very clever plan to get a foot in the door personally.

It just doesn''t make sense for him to want it repaid immediately in cash when hes loaded to the eyeballs with the stuff.

[/quote]

Becuase if the club was up the creek and owed him £5m then he might have got the club on the cheap.

[/quote]

Give me a break!

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