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TheCardinal

Official Statement; Club for sale for £56 million

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Lets be honest here, PC isnt a successful businessman for no reason, he knows that it wont be as simple as giving the club 20 million to spend on players and all of a sudden gets 51% percent of the club. He would have known before he made that statement that in order to invest 20mil in the team then he would have known that he would have to pay more than 20mil......36million more we will have to wait and see.

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[quote user="Norfolk&Chance"]

[quote user="The Saturday Boy"]Just want us all to err on the side of caution here. If  Cullum simply wanted to invest some money into the transfer pot  he could have done it  for a seat on the board but he has clearly stated he wants  CONTROL  of the club, which, under city rules means that he will have to offer to buy 100% of the shares. People seem to be missing the point a bit here. Delia and Michael cannot just simply sell him their shares and wave goodbye.. we are a PLC, and whilst that was Delia and Michael decision, think back to when it was made... if they were simply in it to make money why would they wait this long?

Personally I believe (and I''m expecting to get shot down here) that Delia and Micheal have always tried their best for the club although they have made some massive mistakes on the way, but cannot take the club forward anymore, and are obviously prepared to negotiate with Cullum hence the statement tonight, a deal will probably be done if Cullum is genuine, and if Michael and Delia get back the money they''ve invested, good for them judging by those figures they won''t be making much of a profit. I will welcome Cullum with open arms and hope that he will invest as promised and I can enjoy watchin Premiership football, but lets not get carried away.

But let me ask you all one more question.... how long until some people on here are calling for Cullums head when promotion isn''t achieved....
This is the most sensible post on this thread.

If the Jones''s where here to make money over the last 10 years, they would have been better off putting their money into Real Estate for that time. They would have made much more money than they''re offering here.

I think Delia et. al. have the right intentions, however misguided they might appear sometimes. Under the current quoted price, it would cost PC 36million to get control, plus what he wants to inject. 20 of the 36 could easily be re-financed in need be. If he wanted to do it, he would. I''d suspect he does want to do it, and today’s media slanging match is all about haggling over the price.

I notice how no one answered your last question Saturday Boy....

[/quote]

 

OK, I''ll answer Saturday Boys question............. a very long time. Most of us are pretty sensible people and if we can see that PC is putting a bit of money in to ensure we can compete with other Championship clubs we will be happy. I don''t think for a moment that we will be "demanding" £20M every season or anything silly, we just want to know we have a transfer budget of around, say, £3-4M per year. If we got promoted, things would be different obviously - but then there would be a lot more money coming in.  

Mark .Y.

 

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Am I the only person that see''s PC''s October ''bid'' of £20m as being his valuation, at that time, for control. At that time, the club were destined for the drop.

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[quote user="BBFF"]

This has got nothing to do will money, its all to do with control. Cullum wants to be in control for his £20m and the Smiths will not give up control. As for the £56m price tag it all pie in the sky. The Smiths know no one will ever come up with that much for the club so there will never be a take over at that price.

What we have to remember is by refusing Cullum offer last year The Smiths were willing to see us go down as long as they stayed in control. There''s nothing like having a true fan in control of our club?????????

 

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST 

[/quote]

Every NCFC fan should re-read this sentence.

Some of us were torn apart on here last year when we suggested something similar.

 

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Commercial law wasn''t my strongest subject but I think the big problem with having to buy the entire issued share capital could be avoided by setting up a private company (ltd) to buy the club. The ltd  would buy 100% of the club but the ltd could be owned say 51% by Cullum and 49% shared between the current shareholders. This could give him the control he wants without having to own the whole club which it doesnt sound like he wants. Obviously in practice this would be pretty complicated. I think it cold possibly be done by paying for the club partly in shares of the ltd. Anyways if this works it would mean that Cullum would only have to pay 8ish million for the club and we could possibly keep the board loans in place.

... i think...

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[quote user="Mahogany"]

Commercial law wasn''t my strongest subject but I think the big problem with having to buy the entire issued share capital could be avoided by setting up a private company (ltd) to buy the club. The ltd  would buy 100% of the club but the ltd could be owned say 51% by Cullum and 49% shared between the current shareholders. This could give him the control he wants without having to own the whole club which it doesnt sound like he wants. Obviously in practice this would be pretty complicated. I think it cold possibly be done by paying for the club partly in shares of the ltd. Anyways if this works it would mean that Cullum would only have to pay 8ish million for the club and we could possibly keep the board loans in place.

... i think...

[/quote]An interesting point if true. Would depend on everything being amicable during the negotiations though!

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So if PC and the Jones are haggling over price does that mean there is more than one intrested party making a offer or they want a return on their original investment in the club? Or both!?

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[quote user="Norfolk&Chance"]


 

"This is the most sensible post on this thread.

If the Jones''s where here to make money over the last 10 years, they would have been better off putting their money into Real Estate for that time. They would have made much more money than they''re offering here.

I think Delia et. al. have the right intentions, however misguided they might appear sometimes. Under the current quoted price, it would cost PC 36million to get control, plus what he wants to inject. 20 of the 36 could easily be re-financed in need be. If he wanted to do it, he would. I''d suspect he does want to do it, and today’s media slanging match is all about haggling over the price.

I notice how no one answered your last question Saturday Boy...."

 

If you have a little think about how long it has taken for a groundswell of opinion to grow against Delia after four seasons of decline when tens of millions of Sky/transfer cash has been used to strengthen shareholder value rather than the team, the answer to Saturday Boys question is blindingly obvious.

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[quote user="Matt"]Well, lets see if Cullum has the £56m or whether he was trying to get a cheap deal!![/quote]

I can see the logic in the £20m being his opening ''bid'' based on the club''s position in October.

 

This story has a long way to run. It will be interesting to see it unfold.

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[quote user="Fellas"]This is exactly what is wrong with delia, the board and the club. From every level this stinks. An apparent over-valuation of the shares. (inc. a nice little bit of small print that means that cullum has to buy 100% of the shares)The loans (it appears correct me if I''m wrong) that delia and the turners paid in good faith to the club, that will be immediately recalled...The repayments of the debt should be dealt jointly with any potential buyers. To merely state they have to repay it is brash. It doesn''t even have to be repaid, you can re-finance the debt if you must, but I very much doubt any reputable loaner will demand repayment in full immediately, unless it was written that the loans do have to be repaid in full which makes delia look even worse.[/quote]The loans are a kind of fail safe - plus I would like to add that THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST ANY OF THE £4MILLION IS OWED TO THE DS OR MWJ. Sometimes I like to believe that Norfolk is inhabited by more than just a mob out for blood, sometimes I feel that I am the only Norfolk man that doesn''t reach for the pitch fork and torch everytime something happens! Where is Kathy and Angel when you need them?!!This is more of a test for Cullum - he went to the press and they have countered, its called financial chess. He wanted to test their resolve and they have batted the ball swiftly back into his court. It may be that they are entertaining his game as a cover for something else or even that they are simply playing him at his and calling his bluff.Its a test of two things. He is a billionaire, he has the money, he has said so in so many words and he is USING, YES USING the fans as leverage. They have responded in kind - its up to him. I don''t want to see anyone short changed, the board, the club or the fans and its not like he cannot afford it. Be careful what you wish for.

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[quote user="7rew"][quote user="milan marcus"]

This is a complete betrayal of the club to the fans let me explain why.

The guy wants to invest £20 million

He does not want to purchase the shares at £16 million (if they are worth £16 million?) he wants to crack a deal with the club where he gets majority control for his £20 million for instance 55% and the other shareholders reduce their stake to 45%.  Everyone is a winner here the clubs the fans and the shareholders.  The club spend the £20 million on the squad.

Repayment of the bank debt at £16 million

If the club can service the existing long term debt of £16 million so can the club with Peter Cullum.  He would just need to phone the bank (slight simplification) and use the club as collateral as it with the existing lender.

Repayment of Directors Loan £4 million

He is not here to repay the loans they will get repaid if the club is successful just as they will in the current situation.  This is really sad the loans could be guaranteed by Peter and they could be repaid as and when the club could afford it.

As I said it total betray of the fans by the club – do they really wants us or any investor to accept the club is worth £56 million?  We all know it’s not and so does Peter Cullum.

Please Delia and the board wake up smell the coffee and lets wake up to a new dawn with £20 million to spend on new players not fantasy figures.

 

[/quote]How are the shareholders winners in this deal - say the club gives him control by creating another batch of shares and selling them to him - this doesn''t suddenly double the value of the club, it halves the value of each share.  The current shareholders lose half their investment at a stroke.  How is that good for them?Even in this case he would be buy 50% of the shares for £20million - by stock exchange rules he is then forced to offer money for the rest of the shares, valuing the club at more than £20 million rather than the stated £16 million.So the £56 million is a negotiating position - take out the loans to the bank, which can be renegotiated, the director loans which will probably stay if those directors remain on the board and say that Cullum accepts taking on exactly 50% of the shares then I would expect Delia would revert to the old share price, requiring £6.66 million & the price is £26.7 million. - Cullem would have to get assurences from the lenders on the loan as well as this.This has a long way to play out - I expect that either there is another bidder or cullums offer was much lower than this  - ie give me the club for free and I''ll spend money on it.[/quote]Indeed, I agree with Milan Marcus. I would also add that only a short time ago Delia was on TV saying something along the lines of she would be happy to sell if the right deal was struck and I am pretty sure it was something like clearing the debts and guaranteeing £10million to the squad. Now its likely that I am wrong there but I am sure she did say something along these lines at one of the fans forums or something and it made it to the news - this was last season some time.

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So from the offical statement made this evening Delia & Co would like £56 million for Peter Cullum to buy the club outright?

Investment in playing squad                                                                              £20million

Purchase of shares based on current share issue (price £30 per share)              £16million

Repayment of bank debt (would be triggered by change of control)                  £16million

Repayment of directors loans                                                                           £4million

This seems like a hands off our little toy warning from Delia & Co to Cullum to me.

How is it that she is now wanting market value for her shares and repayment of all loans (including directors loans and bank loans) to release her grip on the club when she has hidden behind the myth that she would let it go for the value of what she initially put in for the last 12 years?

Like I have said all along... Delia is a greedy businesswoman who has hidden behind a PR myth for far too long.

Cullum has now blown that myth apart for all to see and I for one hope that he turns up the heat and drives these mercenaries out of town.

 

 

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I think you will find it was CULLUM who demanded total control - hence them giving him a price to achieve that declared aim.

 

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

So are they saying they want to be bought out and that no investment of any kind can be forthcoming without buying the whole thing?  What a huge pile of croc.

God it almost makes me want to tell em to stick their season tickets.

[/quote]

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" Smudger will support the club"He always has - only most of his fellow club supporters believe they are all cockneys.

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Whilst wanting investment as much as the next fan I think your comments are at best a touch misguided.

"So from the offical statement made this evening Delia & Co would like £56 million for Peter Cullum to buy the club outright?"

You answer this yourself - the banks want £16 million, standard financial institution practice with change in company control.

Repayment of directors loans - written into loan agreements that these are repayable if the control passes from Michael and Delia (£2 million to them)

Purchase of shares @ £16 million. I believe Michael and Delia hold around  60% of the shares (£9.6 million to them)

So in fact Michael and Delia want around £13.6 million not £56 million. onsidering their initial investment I would say this is hardly mercenary.

 

 Cullum can''t seriously think he can get control of NCFC plc for £20 million. 

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But that is the whole point you and the others in this thread are missing.  If you stopped spitting at Delia for two seconds and read what CUllum actually said today, he said he wanted CONTROL of the club - not to invest IN IT.  That means a TOTAL TAKEOVER - which is going to cost him 56 million.  If he had asked for a place on the board for 20 million they would have bitten his hand off and we would be spending the money.  All this Delias dream rubbish is just pure nonsense.

 

[quote user="Chris"]

The whole set-up of the club and its shares has been to protect Delia''s dream. Forcing someone to purchase 100% plus clear the debts and put 20million into a transfer kitty is only used as a way of quashing any potential takeover. The Turners were only included to add an extra layer of armour to protect our current owners. I hate to admit it but there is no way we are worth 24million more than the binners!

[/quote]

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It doesn''t mean a total takeover! He could have 50% (he doesn''t have to have 51%) and be in control. He could even buy only part of Delia''s shares and be in control, all he wants to be is a MAJORITY shareholder.

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Camberwick Green on the official site makes an excellent point about the £56m valuation (and Camberwick is a highly-qualified accountant by trade)

"''fraid not.... I posted this in another thread but there is no way that the price is £56m.. this is pure smoke and mirrors from the club shareholders, who after proclaiming that were willing to sell, actually aren''t becuase ego has a big value....

OK technically the bank loans in the £56m would be repayable but the club cannot seriously be suggesting that a man of Cullums wealth could not re-finance these deals, even in the current era of lending uncertainty... if it came to it, he could organise for his business to loan the money.... Cullum has more collateral than Delia and the Turners put together, he''s one of the 40th richest people in Britain, and people are worried that the loans won''t be renewed??? That is totally laughable.... so lets wipe £16m off that immediately shall we???

Purchase of shares £16m - Based on buying 100% of the shares?? well yes ok, but Cullum doesn''t have to buy 100% of the shares, under listing rules he only has to offer for them and pay who takes his offer - who says everyone will accept?? he''s not compelled to buy ALL shares until he gets to 95% (or so) - so in reality he offers for Delia''s shares and maybe a few others want out too... he ends up with 60% maybe... so call it £9m not £16m, and he can afford that.

Directors loans - valid, they''re repayable on demand, cannot see that as a hurdle.

So, the cost of the buyout far from being the £36m (excluding player investment) the clubs suggests is actually £13m.....

The club''s statement is laughable and exists solely as an example of how they don''t want their delicate, precious, comfy world disrupted.... which is precisely what our club needs.

I don''t doubt that the timing of this is raining on someone''s parade, but I''m glad that it is - our complacent board need this kick up the backside. I''d like to see Cullum go for the overhaul where its most needed.... he is precisely what our club needs, the fact that the club still doesn''t see this just speaks volumes, and is precisely why we need change.

The club should be as ashamed of its statement, it''s a joke and demonstrates precisely why we need Cullum and his planned overhaul.

- and I bet we sign players tomorrow !"

I would be grateful if you would all tattoo that to the inside of your eyelids before you go to bed.

There will be a test on it tomorrow.

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Camberwich always talked a lot of sense when I used to post on the official message board, and this is a brilliant post. £56m down to £13m...oh dear Delia, and even then in the worst case scenario we will still have £7m to spend on players.

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Does anyone belive that statement was anything other than a gesture he knows she would never accept - its called manouvering.

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]I wonder if Cullen is rethinking his first thoughts on keeping Delia as a figurehead?[/quote]

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Exactly Jbghost. I reckon even I, a pauper, could raise finance to buy NCFC as a whole for £20m even in the middle of a credit crunch. Assets including Carrow Rd and Colney, goodwill (I imagine even the membership of the League would be worth something), virtually guaranteed annual income stream arising from 20,000 season tickets......the Business Plan would not be too hard to write!!If Mr Cullum is serious about buying the Club (and I really hope he is) he will be prepared to pay the going rate, if not, then he is guilty of some serious mischief making and I will think that we have had a lucky escape.Let''s sit back and watch the plot unfold, not jump in with crazy, biased statements in favour of either party until the facts are clear. Don''t undersell the club!!!

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[quote user="jetstream"]Camberwick Green on the official site makes an excellent point about the £56m valuation (and Camberwick is a highly-qualified accountant by trade)

"''fraid not.... I posted this in another thread but there is no way that the price is £56m.. this is pure smoke and mirrors from the club shareholders, who after proclaiming that were willing to sell, actually aren''t becuase ego has a big value....

OK technically the bank loans in the £56m would be repayable but the club cannot seriously be suggesting that a man of Cullums wealth could not re-finance these deals, even in the current era of lending uncertainty... if it came to it, he could organise for his business to loan the money.... Cullum has more collateral than Delia and the Turners put together, he''s one of the 40th richest people in Britain, and people are worried that the loans won''t be renewed??? That is totally laughable.... so lets wipe £16m off that immediately shall we???

Purchase of shares £16m - Based on buying 100% of the shares?? well yes ok, but Cullum doesn''t have to buy 100% of the shares, under listing rules he only has to offer for them and pay who takes his offer - who says everyone will accept?? he''s not compelled to buy ALL shares until he gets to 95% (or so) - so in reality he offers for Delia''s shares and maybe a few others want out too... he ends up with 60% maybe... so call it £9m not £16m, and he can afford that.

Directors loans - valid, they''re repayable on demand, cannot see that as a hurdle.

So, the cost of the buyout far from being the £36m (excluding player investment) the clubs suggests is actually £13m.....

The club''s statement is laughable and exists solely as an example of how they don''t want their delicate, precious, comfy world disrupted.... which is precisely what our club needs.

I don''t doubt that the timing of this is raining on someone''s parade, but I''m glad that it is - our complacent board need this kick up the backside. I''d like to see Cullum go for the overhaul where its most needed.... he is precisely what our club needs, the fact that the club still doesn''t see this just speaks volumes, and is precisely why we need change.

The club should be as ashamed of its statement, it''s a joke and demonstrates precisely why we need Cullum and his planned overhaul.

- and I bet we sign players tomorrow !"

I would be grateful if you would all tattoo that to the inside of your eyelids before you go to bed.

There will be a test on it tomorrow.[/quote]I would love it, LOVE IT, if that came off.

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1. That figure was a quote on player spending this year.

2. Would anyone be crazy enough to say ''hey I would give the club 20 million every year...?  It would be financial suicide in the transfer market.

 

Why does everyone insist on taking the statements at face value - has nobody ever negotiated??

[quote user="Chappers"]As cullum said he wont give ncfc anymore money after the initial 20 million, cant see him buying the club for 56 million![/quote]

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Why do you believe this?  He said he wanted his own people in there - basically saying Delia can stay as a puppet - which he doesnt actually want and she would never agree to (Wynn Jones definitely wont).  Pay an extra 20 million to get rid of her or deal with her - I would pay the chicken feed and so will this billionaire.

 

[quote user="ncfcstar"]It doesn''t mean a total takeover! He could have 50% (he doesn''t have to have 51%) and be in control. He could even buy only part of Delia''s shares and be in control, all he wants to be is a MAJORITY shareholder.[/quote]

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]why don''t they just get the hell out and give us our club back[/quote]

It was never our club.  It was Watlings, then Souths, then Chases, then Watlings again briefly, and now it''s the Joneses.

I think they''ll either come to a deal, or the Turners will magically find some cash and save their skins.  I just wish it was done more privately, this could become rather undignified.

[/quote]

 

wrong..... its their team, their stadium, their hotel, their training ground..... BUT ITS OUR CLUB

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