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TheCardinal

Official Statement; Club for sale for £56 million

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[quote user="Nuff Said"]I have finally worked my way to the end of this thread. Exhausted now but feel the need to post something so I''m part of the frenzy. Probably little point as everyone is so worked up that little fact is making its way through the static.

First, just so everyone can lump me in with the "Percys" can I say excellent post from Cambridge. The one outstanding issue for me is why the conversion from a limited company to a PLC, and hence (I believe) the requirement for anyone attempting to take control to be able (note not to have to) buy all shares in the company. I believe the rise in the share price is justified by the conversion of the Smiths'' loans into shares - which surely benefitted the club as the loans were in effect wiped out

However, what no-one hear has clarified for me is what do people think is Delia and hubby''s motivation here? Do they have some sort of megalomaniac desire to remain in total control of the club, repelling all attempts at investment no matter what? Why? What''s in it for them? Since they''ve taken over they have spent an enormous amount of time and money on NCFC. Are they closet Binners trying to take the club down? Well if so they''re doing a poor job of it - they could have just left Peter Grant in charge.

And, as some people have suggested, if they are in it for the cash then for god''s sake don''t follow their investment advice. Unless they are completely clueless, they did not put their money into the club hoping to make a profit, as Peter Cullum has said, there''s little to no chance of making money from investing in a Championship club - or most Premiership clubs come to that. But to negotiate to try and get a fair price for the money they''ve put in - seems reasonable to me.
[/quote]

Back in 2002 or thereabouts, there was a share issue to the general public to raise money.  I can''t remember the precise details but I received the prospectus and many fans subscribed to shares.  The point is that only a PLC can do that and it was necessary to convert to a PLC to raise money in that way.

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i dont really understand shares etc.. but if PC were to buy Mike Foulgers shares would that then entitle him to a seat on the board or would the other directors have to vote? If he bought Foulgers and Munbys he''d have some real clout about him!

jas :)

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o[quote user="Worst Wizard"]The Board has a legal duty to act in the interests of the Club as a

whole and not individuals so the personal desires and objectives of

Delia and Michael are not valid considerarions for the Board to take

into account.Could someone explain to me how putting the share value up 20% was in the interest of the Company and not the individual?It put about £4m on the 100% shares asking price pushing it up to £16m when the Company would benefit far more from being sold for £12m then subsequently having that extra £4m invested. I see no way anyone other than the shareholders (you know who I mean) benefitted from this act since that extra £4m leaves the Company for the pockets of the shareholders on takeover.[/quote]Could you explain to me how £4million is 20% of 12 million?

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[quote user="fleckmatic"][quote user="WEEN_NASTY"] Do you not think the manner in which Delia and Co are acting, ie a press release, instead of dialogue with Mr Cullum is obstructive?. It smacks of we don''t want to sell. [/quote]

Yes it is - but you could say Cullum started the public PR-throwing yesterday via the interview with the EDP. Before then it had all been private dialogue (although stalled). He could argue it took the EDP article to the ball rolling but now it''s negotiation by public press-release.

I expect it''s now ''even'' - one of them will approach the other privately.
[/quote]

Ween, you could be right though Fleckmatic also has a point.

But bear in mind that the Board has a duty to the company and all shareholders to make its position clear.   I think that the Board was duty bound to publically respond to the article.

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It is the early stages of negotiations people. PC hasnt withdrawn his interest yet has he? Until he does so or we discover what is really going on behind the scenes this debate is pointless. PC is a fan just like any one of us. He is probably just as fed up with the current setup of our board and shareholders as the lot of us. He is a wealthy man of business. He is testing the water. He will be willing to negotiate. It just takes time. [:)]

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="mozzer"]

Thanks for the post Cambridge - there is intelligent life out there then!

[/quote]

Cambridge... intelligent life???

Don''t make me laugh... he was just one of the many on here who have been duped by Delia''s blatant lies and spin for so long!!!

[/quote]

Says the man who shamelessly gets the facts wrong but let us not let the facts get in the way of hating Delia.

Talking about fatcs, perhaps you would show me the post where I have supported Delia as a person or expressed any opinion about her at all.

I have restricted my comments here to the legal process and governace.  I say nothing about the policy and strategy of the Club so on what basis do you presume to judge me and attribute opinions to me??

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[quote user="Empty Mirror"]

Over and above which, presumably even Delia''s greatest foe (provided they have our club''s best interests at heart) would rather Cullum paid off the debt, and complied with his legal obligation to make the offer to every shareholder and put £20 million on top of all that into Roeder''s budget (it''s not as if he can''t afford it, apparently).   That''s a better outcome for the club than him simply putting a grand total of £20 million in which, after buying out shareholders, would leave very much less for Roeder, and still leave the club in debt.  So, no criticism of the Board for their response – they can’t be blamed for asking. 

[/quote]

Even if this was the case, which it isn''t, we would still better off with Cullum in charge than Delia?  Go figure

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[quote user="IncH-HigH"][quote user="bunny"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="mozzer"]

Thanks for the post Cambridge - there is intelligent life out there then!

[/quote]

Cambridge... intelligent life???

Don''t make me laugh... he was just one of the many on here who have been duped by Delia''s blatant lies and spin for so long!!!

[/quote]

Cambridge made a very intelligent post that summed up the whole situation nicely for a lot of people, that''s why he is being shown gratitude. There is no need to be rude because he''s getting the attention and you''re not.

[/quote]

Yes he did but like many Delia defenders he ommited the fact that we were lied to at the last AGM and the share price was deliberatly inflated as soon as Cullum showed his intentions.

[/quote]  Very contentious facts.  I simply do not know one way or the other.

Do you?  If so, how?  Please share your inside financial information with the rest of us.

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="mozzer"]

Thanks for the post Cambridge - there is intelligent life out there then!

[/quote]

Cambridge... intelligent life???

Don''t make me laugh... he was just one of the many on here who have been duped by Delia''s blatant lies and spin for so long!!!

[/quote]

Says the man who shamelessly gets the facts wrong but let us not let the facts get in the way of hating Delia.

Talking about fatcs, perhaps you would show me the post where I have supported Delia as a person or expressed any opinion about her at all.

I have restricted my comments here to the legal process and governace.  I say nothing about the policy and strategy of the Club so on what basis do you presume to judge me and attribute opinions to me??

[/quote]CC, I think you seriously misunderstand how this messageboard works. Begone with your reasoned arguments and pesky facts. We have no use for them here.

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

Very contentious facts.  I simply do not know one way or the other.

Do you?  If so, how?  Please share your inside financial information with the rest of us.

[/quote]I reckon as we were bottom of the league at the time it was done to protect the board against a potential aggresive takeover on relegation.  I think the AGM was before the Cullum bid.  If it was after the bid then its pretty telling really.

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Don''t know about anyone else but my head is spinning with all this finance and law talk. [8-)]

All I want is for our club to move forward, I don''t want to see another season like last, because I for one feel it might be make or break for the club if the worst should happen, god forbid, and we get relegated.  If moving forward means fresh investment in whatever form that takes from PC, and a reasonable offer is made, then for the good of the Club Delia & friends should accept that move on.

People will praise her and the board, I did until a couple of seasons ago, not anymore.  But that is my opinion, other people have differing opinions, and those should be as respected as our own.

Tempers and frustrations will be shown because us fans are deeply passionate about our club, we all bleed yellow and green, we all support the same team, it''s just off pitch we all have differing views.

One thing should never be forgotten on here, we ALL support NCFC, so lets stop with the petty name calling, point scoring and some of the condescening attitudes I have read on here for the past day or so, and for once let''s all pull in the same direction.  Pulling in the same direction doesn''t mean we all have to sing off the same hymn sheet, it just means we are united for the good of the Club with differing views on CR OFF FIELD (ie; the board) activities.

<<gets coat and wanders out>> [:$]

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[quote user="Canary Nut"]

[quote user="Nuff Said"]
However, what no-one hear has clarified for me is what do people think is Delia and hubby''s motivation here?

[/quote]

May I suggest you read point 4 of ''The crux of the matter'' thread.

[/quote] As directors it should only be whatever is in the interest of the company which would include:

 finding a buyer who will advance the club

and getting a fair share price for all shareholders.

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[quote]As directors it should only be whatever is in the interest of the company which would include:

 finding a buyer who will advance the club

and getting a fair share price for all shareholders.[/quote]

Sounds like we''re half way there then ?

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[quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="Webbo118"]

As a shareholder (albeit a fairly small one) in this business, I really do object to finding out about this offer by reading a story in the local press some nine months after the event. I would have thought that there is some obligation on the Board to report to the shareholders even if it is just to say "this is what the offer is and we have rejected it because .......". To say nothing, in my opinion, is treating the minority shareholders with complete disregard. We are constantly being told what wonderful supporters the Club has and how fortunate the Club is to have them. Talk is cheap and it appears that only a privileged few are allowed to know what is going on. It is not good enough ! 

[/quote]

 

I have to say that what you have said along with a few other things over the years is what has irked myself and my better half so much, being treated like this is not what us fans/shareholders deserve.

I thought sleeping on the matter I would wake and maybe see things in a different light, as I normally do with these things, however I still feel the same this morning, very let down by the club and ALL the board.

[/quote]

If I was a shareholder, I''d demand an extraordinary meeting - for the board to explain why there was no information given pertaining to the offer by PC.

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Cullum wouldn''t really need to find 56million straight up for this complete takeover to go ahead. Yes he would have to purchase the shares for 16m and repay the directors loans of 4m. But like so many recent takeovers he would simply restructure the 16m debt and place it back in the hands of the club. Look at the likes of the Glazers, Hicks and Gillette they have simply placed the debt of financing a takeover onto the books of Man Utd and Liverpool respectively. Also we don’t know what time frame for the 20mil player investment is, it could easily be 4mil over 5 years. This deal is not dead in the water yet, so stop worrying. If Cullum wants the club i''m sure he''ll be able to negotiate some deal, after all the City advisory firm he has previously used (Lexicon Partners) has incredible experience and knowledge in the acquisition field.

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[quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="Webbo118"]

As a shareholder (albeit a fairly small one) in this business, I really do object to finding out about this offer by reading a story in the local press some nine months after the event. I would have thought that there is some obligation on the Board to report to the shareholders even if it is just to say "this is what the offer is and we have rejected it because .......". To say nothing, in my opinion, is treating the minority shareholders with complete disregard. We are constantly being told what wonderful supporters the Club has and how fortunate the Club is to have them. Talk is cheap and it appears that only a privileged few are allowed to know what is going on. It is not good enough ! 

[/quote]

 

I have to say that what you have said along with a few other things over the years is what has irked myself and my better half so much, being treated like this is not what us fans/shareholders deserve.

I thought sleeping on the matter I would wake and maybe see things in a different light, as I normally do with these things, however I still feel the same this morning, very let down by the club and ALL the board.

[/quote]

I quite agree.  It''s not just that they failed to tell us.  They went out of their way to give the impression that no one was interested by being economical with the truth - statements such as "there isn''t a queue" (true enough, one prospective investor doesn''t constitute a queue) and "no one wants to buy loss-making Championship clubs" (omitting to mention that for the past three seasons we''d made a profit not a loss). 

They were very happy when we forked out for the share issue but are outraged when we ask difficult questions.  "Put up and shut up" seems to be their attitude.

 

 

 

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See, this is where I struggle with the whole thing. Has Peter Cullum made an offer to buy some or all of the shares? Was he interested in buying the shares last year and was it kept from us? As far as I am aware Cullums spokesmen were denying any interest until this story broke yesterday.

That''s why I am sitting on this damn fence, I don''t believe a word from either side.

It''s interesting to watch it unfold though.. better than Corrie[Y]

 

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I don''t have the time to trawl through 20 pages and no doubt someone has already said this but I simply cannot believe that Cullum would not know that in addition to his £20M for players that he would need to put in money for Delia''s shares and take on the debt!

Cullum has said only informal talks have taken place so equally he will be aware a formal offer needs to be made and until a formal offer is made the club aren''t going to take things too seriously.

Therefore, why has Cullum gone to the press now? Clearly, it is to get popular support from the fans and one can olny assume that maybe he is looking to get a better (i.e cheaper) deal.

As this is NCFC this will no doubt drag on for months as we can''t seem to do anything simply!

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You would think so Stevie Wonder but I have not seen it reported anywhere. In fact this very website ran the following story just a fortnight ago :-

 

17 June 2008
Rich Cullum refuses to rule out City investment

One of Britain''s richest men has left the door ajar for a possible involvement in Norwich City Football Club.

The cash-strapped Canaries are desperate for a big injection of finances as they bid to drag themselves out of the Championship and into the promised land that is the Premier League.

Owners Delia Smith and husband Michael Wynn Jones have expressed their willingness to sell - but only to the "right" buyer.

And that could be insurance giant Peter Cullum, who has hinted that he may have a change of heart over a possible takeover at Carrow Road.

The 57-year-old insurance giant has previously denied any interest in moving into football, and Norwich City specifically, but in an interview with the Independent, he raised the prospect that he may, one day, ride to the rescue.

Asked whether he was tempted to invest in the club, he replied: "Never say never."

It is a very different from the reaction to the same question posed by the EDP last autumn.

A spokesman for his company, Towergate Partnership, said: "He is a loyal supporter of Norwich City. He is obviously concerned like any other Norwich supporter about recent performances. But he has no intention of buying the club."

Cullum, who was born in Norwich and played for his hometown club as a schoolboy, has amassed a personal fortune estimated at £1.7b, putting him at number 40 in the Sunday Times Rich List.

His business acumen and place of birth have combined to make him a regular link on the rumour mill, with suggestions last year that City''s newest directors, Andrew and Sharon Turner, were his "fronts" at Carrow Road - a claim the pair denied.

However, he would appear to fit the requirements of Delia Smith who said she would be prepared to relinquish her control of the club, but would not consider selling to a foreign buyer.

 

So I''m staying on the fence for now.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

You would think so Stevie Wonder but I have not seen it reported anywhere. In fact this very website ran the following story just a fortnight ago :-

 

17 June 2008
Rich Cullum refuses to rule out City investment

One of Britain''s richest men has left the door ajar for a possible involvement in Norwich City Football Club.

The cash-strapped Canaries are desperate for a big injection of finances as they bid to drag themselves out of the Championship and into the promised land that is the Premier League.

Owners Delia Smith and husband Michael Wynn Jones have expressed their willingness to sell - but only to the "right" buyer.

And that could be insurance giant Peter Cullum, who has hinted that he may have a change of heart over a possible takeover at Carrow Road.

The 57-year-old insurance giant has previously denied any interest in moving into football, and Norwich City specifically, but in an interview with the Independent, he raised the prospect that he may, one day, ride to the rescue.

Asked whether he was tempted to invest in the club, he replied: "Never say never."

It is a very different from the reaction to the same question posed by the EDP last autumn.

A spokesman for his company, Towergate Partnership, said: "He is a loyal supporter of Norwich City. He is obviously concerned like any other Norwich supporter about recent performances. But he has no intention of buying the club."

Cullum, who was born in Norwich and played for his hometown club as a schoolboy, has amassed a personal fortune estimated at £1.7b, putting him at number 40 in the Sunday Times Rich List.

His business acumen and place of birth have combined to make him a regular link on the rumour mill, with suggestions last year that City''s newest directors, Andrew and Sharon Turner, were his "fronts" at Carrow Road - a claim the pair denied.

However, he would appear to fit the requirements of Delia Smith who said she would be prepared to relinquish her control of the club, but would not consider selling to a foreign buyer.

 

So I''m staying on the fence for now.

 

[/quote]

 

I''d watch out, some of the nails are starting to get rusty

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Having spent most of my working life as a professional in the world of finance, I have been able to view the ways in which a considerable number of rich people operate. Almost without exception, the priority is self-interest. This comment is not made as a criticism but we are deluding ourselves if we think that DS or PC are any different. Each party will be out for the very best deal they can get for themselves. The position of minority shareholders/supporters is practically irrelevant. 

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[quote user="Webbo118"]Having spent most of my working life as a professional in the world of finance, I have been able to view the ways in which a considerable number of rich people operate. Almost without exception, the priority is self-interest. This comment is not made as a criticism but we are deluding ourselves if we think that DS or PC are any different. Each party will be out for the very best deal they can get for themselves. The position of minority shareholders/supporters is practically irrelevant. [/quote]But the levels of self-interest and need for prudence on this sort of investment is vastly different between someone who is worth £1.7b and someone who is worth circa £30m...Cullum will stump up the cash, but it will be no more than he needs to pay (plus the £20m for transfers).

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]The AGM took place on 18th October.  About ten days before that, a poster called JC came on here with a rumour that Peter Cullum was trying to get into the club but was "being blocked", a rumour which in hindsight was almost certainly true.  "Being blocked" suggests to me that an offer probably had been made by about 9th or 10th October when this post appeared, but we don''t know for sure.[/quote]

Now that you mention it, I do remember JC''s posts.  It is starting to sound a bit dodgy, isn''t it ? [:o] [:)]

 [/quote]

Quick point on this matter (I wasn''t at the AGM so I don''t know exactly what was said) but it seems Cullum first approached the board before the AGM, last contact he says was around Christmas, so they would have been negotiating at the time of the AGM. Cullum was denying interest in the club at this point, so no surprise Delia and others didn''t mention his offer. Also, if at that point he was offering $0 for shares but $20m for players, its not an acceptable offer and I can see why they wouldn''t want to mention the interest, it only stirs people up.

If they did say "no one wants to buy loss-making Championship clubs" maybe they should have just said "nobody wants to pay market rate for loss making Championship clubs unless they want to make a huge personal profit". However I have see the board totally mis-quoted on this board so many times, their words minced around and taken out of context ("Little Old Norwich" anyone?) that I have no idea what was said at all.MESSAGE TO PETER CULLUM - if you want to take control of Norwich City, the fans will welcome you with open arms, myself included. However, pay Delia and the board a decent amount for their shares and pay back their loans, they deserve it and you can afford it. If you aren''t prepared to do this, then shame on you for stirring things up in such a public way just at the start of the transfer window.

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[quote user="Big Down Under"][quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]The AGM took place on 18th October.  About ten days before that, a poster called JC came on here with a rumour that Peter Cullum was trying to get into the club but was "being blocked", a rumour which in hindsight was almost certainly true.  "Being blocked" suggests to me that an offer probably had been made by about 9th or 10th October when this post appeared, but we don''t know for sure.[/quote]

Now that you mention it, I do remember JC''s posts.  It is starting to sound a bit dodgy, isn''t it ? [:o] [:)]

 [/quote]

If they did say "no one wants to buy loss-making Championship clubs" maybe they should have just said "nobody wants to pay market rate for loss making Championship clubs unless they want to make a huge personal profit". However I have see the board totally mis-quoted on this board so many times, their words minced around and taken out of context ("Little Old Norwich" anyone?) that I have no idea what was said at all.

[/quote]

I can vouch for the fact the Delia herself did say that.  She was incorrect but that''s not the point.  The point is that Norwich was NOT a loss-making club and in fact had made pretax profits of approximately half a million, three million and nine million in the three preceding seasons.  She misled those who had not read the accounts into believing that Norwich was a loss-making club. 

I had not intended to speak at the meeting but was so incensed at such blatant economy with the truth that I couldn''t stop myself.  It took two attempts to get Neil Doncaster to admit with the greatest reluctance that last season we had in fact made a small profit.  Now this was a shareholders meeting.  Being so evasive about the club''s level of profit was verging on misconduct.

 

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